Earth Glide

[Afgncaap5]

This is a weird question, but must an Earth Elemental be aware of Earth to make use of its Earth Glide extraordinary ability?

On the one hand, a dwarf punching with fists made of rock would still do weapon damage. On the other, well... the "as easily as a fish swims through water" description suggests it might not. The fact that Earth Elementals don't always sink through the ground without concentrating... might just be me overthinking the problem.

I ask because I'm envisioning an Eberron scenario involving a fist-fight on top of a train. During one of those iconic "We're getting close to a tunnel, everyone hit the deck!" scenes, I want a villain to remain standing while the players hit the floor thanks to an elemental infused bit of clothing (not sure what would be most appropriate... Ring? Cloak? Amulet?)

Ideally, I'd like the villain to be comically unaware that he's about to phase through the cliff face over the tunnel through which the lightning rail train passes. However, if Earth Elementals need to actively be aware of any earth they glide through I might skip it.

[eggynack]

I don't think there's any defensive utility to the ability at all, apart from standard hiding in the earth tactics, even if the elemental knows about the earth. It looks like the ability only allows you to move through the earth, as opposed to having some variety of immunity to it. I've gotta figure that, were earth elementals in possession of some variety of earth immunity, then the text would explicitly state that.

[Afgncaap5]

I don't think there's any defensive utility to the ability at all, apart from standard hiding in the earth tactics, even if the elemental knows about the earth. It looks like the ability only allows you to move through the earth, as opposed to having some variety of immunity to it. I've gotta figure that, were earth elementals in possession of some variety of earth immunity, then the text would explicitly state that.

Hmm. That's a good point. The closest thing to a defensive utility might be in the "fish in water" note. I suppose a better question might be whether or not a fish takes damage if it falls off a cliff and hits a lake at the bottom. In real world physics I think it might, and that may be the best answer.

[HighWater]

Hmm. That's a good point. The closest thing to a defensive utility might be in the "fish in water" note. I suppose a better question might be whether or not a fish takes damage if it falls off a cliff and hits a lake at the bottom. In real world physics I think it might, and that may be the best answer.

Real World: If the fish has a high enough (terminal) velocity, it will be damaged or even die from hitting a water-surface just like any other organic, or pretty much just anything really. Their ability to swim doesn't make them immune to fall-damage when hitting water (techniques associated with swimming can reduce fall damage, but only up to a point, and you definitely need to be aware of what's coming to pull it off).

Be careful when applying Real World Physics to DnD physics though. Acceleration simply does not exist, and relative velocity generally doesn't make a difference. Fall damage, for instance, is abstracted as damagedie/distance fallen, rather than tying it to speed and the rapidity of deceleration.
It's a world filled with magic and wonky physics, Real World Physics need not apply. I don't think there's a rule that governs what happens when you get hit with a mountain (other than when having the mountain fall on top of you) or slam into a mountain (dungeoncrasher not withstanding), this is per definition DM-Fiat territory.

Still, Earth-glide doesn't seem a prime (haha, get it?) candidate for this, because it's a method of moving. Means the BBEG would have to be aware of the mountain AND be able to "swim" through it (it's still a medium) just as fast as the train is moving in order to keep up.
I think you're looking for Etherealness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#etherealness). This allows your BBEG to turn immaterial at the last second (perhaps bluffing the PCs), or only seeing the threat at the last split-second. As the train he's on is still the surface he is "standing" on, he could just keep standing in the same spot as he and the train pass through the mountain.

I think a cloak would be most thematically appropriate: at the last moment he wraps himself in this garment, protecting himself from the massive cliff-face.
If you must have the source be an elemental, make your own Ethereal Elemental.

[Harrow]

Water elementals hurt things with slam attacks, even things with natural swim speeds, so I don't see why Earth Glide would give any defense against earth/rock based attacks

[Darkweave31]

If you're the DM and want to do it for a cool and interesting scene go for it, RAW/RAI/Physics be damned.

[Afgncaap5]

It's a world filled with magic and wonky physics, Real World Physics need not apply. I don't think there's a rule that governs what happens when you get hit with a mountain (other than when having the mountain fall on top of you) or slam into a mountain (dungeoncrasher not withstanding), this is per definition DM-Fiat territory.

Actually, I was inspired to make this scene by discovering a rule that specifically talked about being on top of a lightning rail train when it goes through a tunnel. It's sort of the equivalent of a 150 foot drop every round that you're not prone at regular speeds.


Still, Earth-glide doesn't seem a prime (haha, get it?) candidate for this, because it's a method of moving. Means the BBEG would have to be aware of the mountain AND be able to "swim" through it (it's still a medium) just as fast as the train is moving in order to keep up.
I think you're looking for Etherealness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#etherealness). This allows your BBEG to turn immaterial at the last second (perhaps bluffing the PCs), or only seeing the threat at the last split-second. As the train he's on is still the surface he is "standing" on, he could just keep standing in the same spot as he and the train pass through the mountain.

I think a cloak would be most thematically appropriate: at the last moment he wraps himself in this garment, protecting himself from the massive cliff-face.
If you must have the source be an elemental, make your own Ethereal Elemental.

I may wind up scrubbing the moment, honestly. As much as I'd like to do more with Eberron's elemental-binding magic, even if I hand-wave his ability to move at that speed as being the inertia from the train under him, the odds of him going very far through the mountain without running into a non-earth thing that he couldn't glide through (tree roots, metal ore, etc.) would be pushing it. (Or it could be a good way to get him out of a scene quickly: standing on the train like someone trying to walk against a strong current just long enough to be spotted before he's just... not there anymore after hitting something and taking massive damage.)


If you're the DM and want to do it for a cool and interesting scene go for it, RAW/RAI/Physics be damned.

I do agree with this sentiment, but I like to find a midway point if one exists. I've had DMs pull acceptable-but-implausible exceptions to rules on me before that bugged me. I doubt anyone would complain about this instance, but I like to see what I can do within the rules before branching out.

[HighWater]

I may wind up scrubbing the moment, honestly. As much as I'd like to do more with Eberron's elemental-binding magic, even if I hand-wave his ability to move at that speed as being the inertia from the train under him, the odds of him going very far through the mountain without running into a non-earth thing that he couldn't glide through (tree roots, metal ore, etc.) would be pushing it. (Or it could be a good way to get him out of a scene quickly: standing on the train like someone trying to walk against a strong current just long enough to be spotted before he's just... not there anymore after hitting something and taking massive damage.)
Well, if you're wedded to the must-be-elemental, I can only think of the aforementioned self-created Ethereal Elementals. As a player, I would personally balk at the existence of those considerably less than letting someone swim through rock at the speed of a train. Gotta make sure you introduce the concept that the Ethereal Plane now has Elementals earlier in the game if possible.

Of course there are other ways to make the dude reappear on the train on the other side...

You can also just make him go SPLAT, that can be good for a laugh or two, then have another NPC take his place in The Organisation.

[Fitz10019]

Ideally, I'd like the villain to be comically unaware that he's about to phase through the cliff face over the tunnel through which the lightning rail train passes. However, if Earth Elementals need to actively be aware of any earth they glide through I might skip it.

Or that mountain is one of his organization's secret bases, requiring Earthglide and a passing train to enter. Make it a Spot/Notice roll for a PC with darkvision to notice that his feet were still on the train a moment after they entered the tunnel, and the feet stepped away into the rock ceiling.