Were-Pit Fiend (bear with me here)

[troqdor1316]

One of my players in an upcoming Super-Duper Weeaboo Fist of the North Star/Legend of the Legendary Heroes/Tome of Battle themed game wants to play a stereotypical Anime Demon Girl. I'm trying to make a template for him to be essentially a lycanthrope of a pit fiend. Here's what I have so far. This is completely homebrew but it's based off of the rules for creating lycanthropes in the SRD. I ignored the rules for giving the lycanthrope all of the Hit Die of the base animal, because I don't want him to have 18 outsider hit dice as that would kind of skew his ECL

-Gain Shapechanger subtype
-Humanoid form is Medium, +2 nat armor, no natural attacks
-Hybrid form is Medium, 30ft spd, +6 nat armor, 2 claw attacks(primary) (1d6), bite attack(1d8); +16 Str, +4Dex, +6Con
-Devil form is Large, 40ft spd, Fly Speed 60ft (average), +6 nat armor, 2 claw attacks (primary)(1d6), bite attack(1d8), tail slap(1d6), 2 wings(1d4); Improved Grab with tail slap(ex); +16STR, +4DEX, +6CON; Fear Aura DC 10+Cha+1/2HD
-+2 Wisdom in all forms
-Darkvision 60 and Low-light vision in any form
-Alternate Forms (Devil and Hybrid form) (changing forms is a standard action) (a slain lycanthrope reverts to its humanoid form, but seperated body parts retain their animal form)
-Damage Reduction (Ex): Damage Reduction 5/good
-Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex): +4 racial bonus on checks when influencing devils' attitudes and allows the communication of simple concepts and (if the devil is friendly) commands, such as "friend," "foe," "flee," and "attack." Intelligent devils may or may not follow commands based on their whims. Mindless friendly devils or friendly devils with Intelligence below 3 can be commanded.
-Iron Will as a bonus feat
Level Adjustment: +3

My main question: is this gonna be overpowered? The game is going to be starting around ECL 7 or 8 and we're mainly using ToB classes, so he's probably gonna play an unarmed swordsage. Each player is starting with one of the 9 titular swords for free and is restricted to maneuvers of that sword's discipline, and each maneuver must be given a name to be shouted in combat when it is used (for example: SAPPHIRE NIGHTMARE BLADE!). This character is an exception, who will simply have his super-lycanthrope powers and whatever swordsage maneuvers he picks.

[HammeredWharf]

It's probably a bit too much. It wouldn't be OP in a party of T1 casters, but ToB classes aren't that good.


Each player is starting with one of the 9 titular swords for free and is restricted to maneuvers of that sword's discipline, and each maneuver must be given a name to be shouted in combat when it is used (for example: SAPPHIRE NIGHTMARE BLADE!). This character is an exception, who will simply have his super-lycanthrope powers and whatever swordsage maneuvers he picks.

Also, this sounds like a terrible idea from the balance perspective. I get what you're trying to do, but initiators are assumed to take maneuvers from all disciplines available to their class. Being unable to do so is a huge nerf that's applied to everyone but this one guy who also gets a poerful template. Sure, they get the swords, but most of those swords are in the "barely ok" tier of equipment or below it.

[John Longarrow]

troqdor1316,
Something to remember about lycanthropes. Their big stat boosts and DR is offset a lot by being saddled with animal HD. If you remove the racial HD, you should up the ECL a fair bit. More like +6.

I'd use the Bear template for lycanthrope and mix/match a couple things to make it feel more "Devilish". This should be pretty close to what you want.

Likewise I'd not limit people's access to maneuvers. I've never been able to work out a reasonable build that only uses ONE discipline.

[ahenobarbi]

Limiting people to one discipline except one sounds awful. Also I think it's a bad idea to homebrew a template because it's easy to mess up, refluffing existing template (that is taking mechanics of an existing template and changing description to fit demonic theme) is much safer option.

[Feint's End]

Why not just reflavouring lesser tieflings and letting her unique powers come from her class and attributes? Maybe home brew a template to give her some abilities but generally I don't quite see the point.

Another suggestion not directly related to the girl but to the game in general. Why not use path of war instead? The disciplines are much more unique and it makes more sense to focus on one of them because they have a more distinctive flavour.
Otherwise I agree with previous posters that just focusing on one discipline might imbalance the classes and lead to some problems in game.

[Raishoiken]

There is a third party variant lycanthropy template that gives you a way to make a lycanthrope of any creature if I remember correctly, if you'd be wiling to use it

[Yorrin]

I'm actually a big fan of what you're trying to do with this were-pit fiend thing, but for the sake of balance why not choose a lesser demon/devil? barbed devils or erinyes have much more managable stats and a much worse natural attack progression than the mighty pit fiend.

[HammeredWharf]

Another idea: Make a racial progression for this template and give levels of it periodically. The fluff would be that, from time to time, the character unlocks the next part of her demonic powers. The template you have there would be her "FINAL FORM!!!". Bonus points if you can time it so she gets a level mid-combat.

[PraxisVetli]

There is a third party variant lycanthropy template that gives you a way to make a lycanthrope of any creature if I remember correctly, if you'd be wiling to use it

reen Ronin's Advanced Beastiary has Monstrous Lycanthrope, probably what you're thinking.

[Raishoiken]

reen Ronin's Advanced Beastiary has Monstrous Lycanthrope, probably what you're thinking.

It is, I'm afb atm (got all mah stuff on my now chargerless laptop), it was either the advanced bestiary or the book of templates deluxe 3.5 edition, two of my favorite books

[Synar]

Lets see this template:
+6 nat armor
Fly Speed
2 claw attacks (primary)(1d6), bite attack(1d8), tail slap(1d6), 2 wings(1d4) so 6 natural attacks each round (and a bonus feat)
+16STR (!!!), +4DEX, +6CON
(so +8 to AC)(+7 when large)
Fear Aura DC 10+Cha+1/2HD
DR 5/good
Oh, and large size, so large weapon damages and reach.
(plus bonus feat and somewhat minor bonus)

So what is the La for this beast?
Level Adjustment: +3, no racial HD

...
Here (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/LA_3_Races)are some +3 LA races. Here (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Shokan_%283.5e_Race%29)is a +4 LA one.
Look at them. Just look at them.

Sure, racial hd are bad and you should not give any. But you cannot just take them away. Grab a two-handed weapon:good job, you do more damages with this template than even the most broken half dragon water orc power attacking barbarian. I may only be a casual d&d player, but this is broken.

I would personally advice to keep the LA at +3 or lower, and without going to the level of published templates/races with a +3 LA that are often not worth taking, tone it a lot in power. Taking other demons/devils as base could be an idea, or buffing a little +3 LA races or templates. You don't need to affect the fluff: she can turn into a devil fiend looking demon, but with different mechanism. Or scale it with levels so that she stay in the group power level like other suggested. By the way, will they start at level one? This may affect the power level you should try to reach.

EDIT:At least she does not cast as a pit fiend.

[Tvtyrant]

You could always run the character with a gestalt monster class (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1832.0) it turns into.

So the character is a normal ECL 8 that turns into the equivalent level in Pit Fiend.

[Pyromancer999]

This (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Fey-ri_(3.5e_Race)) would probably work best for the concept. You can tweak it to reflect human ancestry rather than elven and easy to customize to simulate a certain type of demon. I'd recommend this over a modified lycanthrope, since it seems better suited to being an actual anime demon person, if tiefling won't do.