Giving a spell a fixed range

[Raishoiken]

So far I haven't seen any way other than reach spell and ocular spell to give a spell a fixed range. The spell is a touch spell, anyone know of another metamagic feat that does this?

[Vaz]

DM is applied on Touch range spells. The range on a touch range spell never actually changes. It is your reach which changes. The range is fixed.

That rules lawyering aside;

Short of 3rd party, no.

In 3rd party, not that I'm aware of.

[Raishoiken]

DM is applied on Touch range spells. The range on a touch range spell never actually changes. It is your reach which changes. The range is fixed.

That rules lawyering aside;

Short of 3rd party, no.

In 3rd party, not that I'm aware of.

Third party is perfectly fine in my eyes, and someone in a different thread mentioned a rule that said touch isn't a fixed range, I forget which book they said it was from

[Curmudgeon]

The range on a touch range spell never actually changes. It is your reach which changes. The range is fixed.
Pretty good illustration of sophistry (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sophistry?s=t&path=/) there, but fixed (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fixed?&path=/) always means "not fluctuating or varying" rather than "not fluctuating when I ignore inconvenient facts". If the spell's range varies with characteristics of the caster (such as their level or reach), it's not fixed.

[Kazudo]

Pretty good illustration of sophistry (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sophistry?s=t&path=/) there, but fixed (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fixed?&path=/) always means "not fluctuating or varying" rather than "not fluctuating when I ignore inconvenient facts". If the spell's range varies with characteristics of the caster (such as their level or reach), it's not fixed.

So spells with ranges that increase incrementally based on CL aren't fixed either, correct?

So...What spells HAVE a fixed range other than "Self"?

[Raishoiken]

So spells with ranges that increase incrementally based on CL aren't fixed either, correct?

So...What spells HAVE a fixed range other than "Self"?

any reach spell, they all have a range of 30ft. Iirc detect magic's range is always 60ft

[Curmudgeon]

So spells with ranges that increase incrementally based on CL aren't fixed either, correct?

So...What spells HAVE a fixed range other than "Self"?
Well, spells like these:
Antilife Shell
Antimagic Field
Antiplant Shell
Bane
Bless
Cloak of Chaos
Crushing Despair
Deathwatch
Fear
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser
Gust of Wind
Helping Hand
Holy Aura
Leomund’s Tiny Hut
Obscuring Mist
Prayer
Prestidigitation
Prismatic Sphere
Repel Metal or Stone
Repel Vermin
Repel Wood
Shield of Law
Speak with Dead
Sunbeam
Unholy Aura

[Vaz]

Pretty good illustration of sophistry (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sophistry?s=t&path=/) there, but fixed (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fixed?&path=/) always means "not fluctuating or varying" rather than "not fluctuating when I ignore inconvenient facts". If the spell's range varies with characteristics of the caster (such as their level or reach), it's not fixed.

Fair enough. But that honestly depends on how much of pain a DM wants to be. If you're going through the trouble of persistomancy, you might as well go through all the hoops to get as many as possible permissible spells, hence Reach/Ocular spell.

Calling something to be an illustration of sophism based on what your own interpretation is, however, is fallacious. Sorry, Curmudgeon, your readings are only that. Admittedly, you have a better grasp of reading into things than many others and you also have a way of explaining things that makes it quite easy to understand.

However, "range: touch" does not actually change, and is a fixed range. The fixed range is that of the touch. Not a variable based on caster level. Spells which target the self (personal) or have a fixed range (one which cannot change; which brings into circle theory with metamagic and self qualification/disqualification).

Basically, go and speak to your DM. Say "here's my preferred way of getting free metamagic'd spell onto myself - Incantatrix, DMM whatever - which in combination with this group of feats explicitly allows me to bypass the most common way of DM's saying "no" to Persisted spells. You've allowed me to get persisted spells. I'm going to be getting Reach/Ocular if you say no to touch range, but here's the argument for touch ranges being available; mainly that compared to Short (25+5ft/level) etc, it has a definite range that is fixed to my own reach."

Basically, it gives you a heads up into what your DM is willing to do and go along with. If he says no, nothing ventured, nothing gained. It's still rules legal.

if you're wondering about the "fixed range circle theory"; the spell wouldn't be fixed if it can have reach metamagic applied to it, because it can be changed. And because personal spells can be affected by Spellguard of Silverymoon, the spell isn't fixed range, it can change.

[Necroticplague]

However, "range: touch" does not actually change, and is a fixed range. The fixed range is that of the touch. Not a variable based on caster level. Spells which target the self (personal) or have a fixed range (one which cannot change; which brings into circle theory with metamagic and self qualification/disqualification).

Except reach isn't fixed. Assuming your reach stays the same, a touch spells range is constant. However, if you simply use enlarge person, your reach changes. So touch spells are "fixed" range in the same way CL based ranges are: assuming other things all remain the same (reach or cl), it remains the same. If those change, it changes with them. It's almost as if it is a dependent variable...

[Vaz]

Spells with a fixed or personal range can have their duration increased to 24 hours.

Bolded.

a) There are no spells with a range of "fixed". This is a term invented by Persisted spell. Is there any other ruling within d&d which refers to a fixed range?
b) There is no mention of "reach" precluding the spell from being persisted.
c) Touch is a fixed range, it is not modified at all. There is no mention to reach on the definition of "range" for spellcasting.
d) You come back to the fact that there is no definition for "fixed". You google it.
e) You see that this means only those with a range that does not change.
f) You can apply metamagic to change that range. It doesn't matter whether you do, or not. Simply that you can. Square 1.
g) Realise that without a proper ruling, you're limited to Personal spells only.
h) Which means that "fixed or" is completely unnecessary.
i) Either ignore the unnecessary part, or let touch spells apply.

In other words, just ask the DM. Explain to him the argument above, and say "look I'm getting it anyway if you allow me to Persistomance, because Reach Spell is a thing. Either it's Personal only, touch spells apply as well (even if only to touch yourself, you could use as the argument, as that is definitely the same range) or ones with a range explicitly given a distance which does not change due to anything (except metamagic, because, as Curmudgeon says, that's an inconvenient fact).

The difference is, he's going to make you burn uses or Turn Undead and feat slots. Which may be something to do with limiting power - but basically, if you're "limiting power", then why on earth are you allowing persist in the first place, let alone persistomancy.

And you can't even say it's broken - Persistent Wraithstrike, for example, is available regardless of any reducers.

[firebrandtoluc]

Heroes of Battle page 113. War Weaver's enlarged tapestry ability considers touch and fixed as separate categories.

[Curmudgeon]

a) There are no spells with a range of "fixed". This is a term invented by Persisted spell.
No, this is a term straight out of the English language, so it means what the dictionary says: "not fluctuating or varying".