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Deepblue706
2007-02-13, 03:46 PM
http://is2.okcupid.com/users/932/996/9329965981289076258/mt1171327824.jpg


Obviously, this is referencing old Zelda, with quite a funny twist, in my opinion. You remember the very beginning of that game, don't you? Some crazy guy in that cave gives you a sword, and then you stab things that are presumably evil or just plain ugly. Whatever. Either way, it's justified.


If you've taken a good look at what makes a hero's tale, then I'm sure you already know about the hero's path. You know, there's the part where he or she is incompetent, but then they go through a death/rebirth thinger, usually involving a cave or body of water...and...


BAM. They come out all bad-ass. Or, at least, more bad-ass than before. Or, if not bad-ass, just better, in some form. A Mt. Ordeals kinda thing.


Many feel that there needs to be a moment in every story involving a hero that uses elements such as these. I'm curious...does having stuff like this in their D&D games? Of course one cannot always ask a DM to prepare a special dungeon specifically for this reason and expect amazing results, but would it be a pleasant surprise if suddenly things went 8-bit theatre and your greedy thief had to deal with "avarice", ect? Do any DMs like to pick out any purposely laid-out flaws in a character, and challenge them on it (without being excessive)? Does anyone like to firmly establish a point in time, through symbolism, a great deal of growth in a character as a result of a "big moment"? Anyone actually gone through something like this, and would love to share their experience?


And...isn't that picture awesome?

oriong
2007-02-13, 04:23 PM
The problem with the standard Hero Quest model when applied to D+D is that it almost always assumes a Main Character of the story, someone who is the hero.

In D+D the standard assumption is that the party is a group of equals, not necessarily even having one leader let alone a single character who stands out as a Hero. It is possible to take the whole party as a sort of 'heroes of legend' group and make them all recieve some grand gift to start them on their way, this is fairly common in games where the PCs fulfill some prophecy or other or are following in the footsteps of some legendary, and unusually identical, group.

Saph
2007-02-13, 04:40 PM
Does anyone like to firmly establish a point in time, through symbolism, a great deal of growth in a character as a result of a "big moment"? Anyone actually gone through something like this, and would love to share their experience?

The thing is, RPGs, especially the D&D kind, tend to be about teamwork. It's not 'one guy becomes a hero and saves the world', it's about a group of heroes all working together. So you can't really have the 'sudden growth' thing, because each character is developing and growing at a different pace - what was a life-changing experience for the fighter might just have been another day's work for the mage.

I have had times where a character of mine has done something really symbolic and cool that's really changed them - but it was usually something that I only woke up to after I'd gone through it. And I'm not actually sure the other PCs noticed - they were too wrapped up in their own things.


And...isn't that picture awesome?

The kittens seem to be contagious. :P

- Saph

Deepblue706
2007-02-13, 06:14 PM
Oh, believe me, I know about the hero's path generally involving one character, but I was actually talking about a group, as a whole. And I didn't mean they all grew as a whole, but...yeah...I was wondering if many people played games where the was a group bestowed with a great gift and such...or if any of them made any transformations, main character or equal with the others.

Really, I thought this would have been implied. Guess not.

barawn
2007-02-13, 06:31 PM
The point of those experiences isn't the transformation into something powerful: it's the acceptance of the person/party as to what must be done. It's a very common motif. The conviction gives the hero power.

Most of my games tend to be epic (not level-wise, but of scale) and so yeah, they've had moments like these. Moments when the party realizes "This isn't about a city. This is about the entire world."

Saph
2007-02-13, 06:35 PM
Well, now you mention it, I do remember one story about one particular group being given a great gift and great power that transformed them . . . let me remember where it was . . .

There. Search for "Al Bruno III", then go to "Rants and Reviews", and read the one titled "The God Trip".

- Saph

Folie
2007-02-13, 06:57 PM
Back in the olden days, a friend convinced me to play in his Shadowrun campaign, in which he gave each player character a "power-gaming option." He encouraged us players not to talk with each other's character backgrounds OOC, so I don't know what the other PCs got, but the GM confided to me that my hacker had probably been given the most "epic" gift of them all. What made the gift so "epic" was its giver: an insanely powerful, nearly omnipotent AI program.

To make a long story short, this AI took an interest in young FanGirl, and he/she/it allowed her to borrow his "pet." The "pet" was a sort of assistant hacking program whose user interface was designed to look and act like a friendly, tame wolf cub. Actually, calling it an "assistant" program is somewhat misleading, because it was so smart that it could best some of the l33test haXX0rs around without any directions from a human user. I named it Rudy.

Raum
2007-02-13, 09:26 PM
BAM. They come out all bad-ass. Or, at least, more bad-ass than before. Or, if not bad-ass, just better, in some form. A Mt. Ordeals kinda thing.
I've seen something similar happen in games, even without DM intervention. Sometimes the group simply comes together as a team, makes all the correct decisions, supports each other, and ends up making an encounter the DM thought deadly look easy.

Luckily for most DMs' sanity, those moments of synergistic teamwork seldom last past a single encounter.

Deepblue706
2007-02-13, 10:59 PM
The point of those experiences isn't the transformation into something powerful: it's the acceptance of the person/party as to what must be done. It's a very common motif. The conviction gives the hero power.

I guess I really did come off as a complete jackass to you guys, huh? My mention of going from normal to "bad-ass" was meant to be a somewhat silly take on what actually happens...

Quietus
2007-02-14, 05:27 AM
I think every character who is levelled from 1 all the way up the old-fashioned way will, in most cases, end up having a moment like that. My character Kyle, a human-turned-wererat rogue, had a moment like that when he found an intelligent sword, and had to make the decision : Do I continue to work for my own interests, or do I put that aside and work toward the better of everyone?

No matter what decision he made; That was a life-defining decision. Once you make a decision like that, it helps to strongly define your character. We ended the game after that, and on my way home, I was continually thinking - what would Kyle do? He's lived his entire life working only for himself... but where's it gotten him? Is he really able to put aside his selfishness and work to ensure fair treatment for all?

In the end, I took up the sword's offer, with only the intent to see where it would take me, and learn more about myself, in mind. Kyle was Chaotic Neutral when he first touched this sword; Thursday, he's officially making the change to Chaotic Good, as that moment changed him that profoundly that his alignment has slowly shifted over time.