Physical growth in the Astral Plane

[Falcon X]

Does anyone know how a body matures in the Astral Plane?

We see groups like the Githyanki, Ghost Elves, and some Athar who live their lives on the Astral Plane. Yet, if it's a place that is outside your physical body and everything is of the mind and spirit, how would the physical body of a baby grow and mature? What does a body look like if it leaves Astral space if it's never been off the Astral until it's an adult?

[AuraTwilight]

Uh...it's possible to physically exist in the Astral Plane. You can bodily Plane Shift there and everything.

[TuggyNE]

Uh...it's possible to physically exist in the Astral Plane. You can bodily Plane Shift there and everything.

I think the OP is referring to the timelessness of the Astral.

To which I say, "magic". (Actually there's probably some location-specific magic that the gith use to allow themselves to mature, or something.)

[jedipotter]

It depends. The ''Astral'' has lots of effects on time, but it depends on the book and the edition. Manual of the Planes has some detail, but that is 3.0. Most 3.5 books ignore the planes, even the Planewalkers Handbook is all about ''adventure'' and not the planes. And each setting is unique, with it's own planes.

In general, you would not grow in the Astral. Creatures that live their must go elsewhere to grow, or use magic. They can enlarge, polymorph, and such to ''look older'', if that means anything.

Just think, Solg the Astral guy might look, say 20 ''human years'' old.....but in reality he is 1350 years old.

[Karmea]

At least in PS, githyanki plane shift their eggs/young to other planes so they can mature. I imagine it's the same for most others.

(Ghost elves live on the Ethereal btw.)

[Falcon X]

(Ghost elves live on the Ethereal btw.)
:( Ouch. I was quite certain that it was Astral, but you are right. Are they mentioned anywhere except Dragon Magazine?


It depends. The ''Astral'' has lots of effects on time, but it depends on the book and the edition. Manual of the Planes has some detail, but that is 3.0. Most 3.5 books ignore the planes, even the Planewalkers Handbook is all about ''adventure'' and not the planes. And each setting is unique, with it's own planes.

In general, you would not grow in the Astral. Creatures that live their must go elsewhere to grow, or use magic. They can enlarge, polymorph, and such to ''look older'', if that means anything.

Just think, Solg the Astral guy might look, say 20 ''human years'' old.....but in reality he is 1350 years old.
So, one could stay on the Astral indefinitely, never aging? That's screwy, but makes sense.

Is it the same for 3rd edition as it is for 2nd Edition's Planescape?

[Xar Zarath]

Does anyone know how a body matures in the Astral Plane?

We see groups like the Githyanki, Ghost Elves, and some Athar who live their lives on the Astral Plane. Yet, if it's a place that is outside your physical body and everything is of the mind and spirit, how would the physical body of a baby grow and mature? What does a body look like if it leaves Astral space if it's never been off the Astral until it's an adult?

You require an expert, hold while one is being summoned. Please wait for reply/replies to your queries.

*Afroakuma Afroakuma! Afroakuma!*

[Eldan]

So, one could stay on the Astral indefinitely, never aging? That's screwy, but makes sense.

Is it the same for 3rd edition as it is for 2nd Edition's Planescape?

3E never published much material on the planes and most of what's there is either character building or adventuring oriented. But since it doesn't say anything else and the Astral is still timeless, I'd say yes. THough it might be that the thing with Githyanki fortresses on the prime for child rearing is still in the XPH. I think I've seen it somewhere.

And yes, on the Astral, you don't age. Some powerful people go there for exactly that reason. It's quite dangerous for other reasons, though.

[Sith_Happens]

And yes, on the Astral, you don't age. Some powerful people go there for exactly that reason. It's quite dangerous for other reasons, though.

Just hope you never fail your Will save versus a Wish or Plane Shift, though, because


The danger of a timeless plane is that once one leaves such a plane for one where time flows normally, conditions such as hunger and aging do occur retroactively.

[Eldan]

That's one of the dangers, yeah. Also storms, githyanki, Anubis, predatory thoughts, wild dreams and Astral Dreadnoughts.

[Gildedragon]

Anubis?
Is that where he's got his divine realm?

[Eldan]

Anubis is an interesting case in Planescape. Originally, its task was to shepherd the souls of worshipers of the Hebdomad through the Astral Plane. However, at one point, it changed its focus to guarding the corpses of dead gods. It seems to have cast off its divinity and doesn't even grant spells anymore. No one is quite sure what Anubis is, now, other than the very jealous guardian of the corpses of its former peers.

[Brookshw]

He's also apparently the laziest god considering he has one very simple task and has let the Gith set up shop on the body of a dead god, one of those he was charged with protecting.

[jedipotter]

Is it the same for 3rd edition as it is for 2nd Edition's Planescape?

Oh, well 2E, being much more hardcore and unfair then super safe and nerfed 3E, was much more fun. In 2E, any time you spent on the Astral caught up to you once you left the plane. A couple of days or even a week would not matter much......but if you were to spend say 100 years on the Astral, you'd age 100 years as soon as you left...

[John Longarrow]

Jedipotter,

Plus, in 2nd edition, if you went into the wrong dungeon (or right one as the case may be) you'd come out as a different race/gender/alignment!

[Bronk]

I wonder if the ageing problem is the reason they've never wiped out the Githzerai.

[Phelix-Mu]

Jedipotter,

Plus, in 2nd edition, if you went into the wrong dungeon (or right one as the case may be) you'd come out as a different race/gender/alignment!

Role play gold!!:smalltongue:

[Brookshw]

Jedipotter,

Plus, in 2nd edition, if you went into the wrong dungeon (or right one as the case may be) you'd come out as a different race/gender/alignment!

Grand times indeed!

[ksbsnowowl]

Oh, well 2E, being much more hardcore and unfair then super safe and nerfed 3E, was much more fun. In 2E, any time you spent on the Astral caught up to you once you left the plane. A couple of days or even a week would not matter much......but if you were to spend say 100 years on the Astral, you'd age 100 years as soon as you left...The same is true in 3rd edition.


Timeless

On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the effects of time are diminished. How the timeless trait can affect certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the effects of poison, and healing varies from plane to plane.

The danger of a timeless plane is that once one leaves such a plane for one where time flows normally, conditions such as hunger and aging do occur retroactively.

What I'm curious about is if Regeneration functions on the Astral Plane. I'm 99% sure that Fast Healing does not.


Timeless. Age, hunger, thirst, poison, and natural healing don’t function in the Astral Plane, though they resume functioning when the traveler leaves the Astral Plane.

[Falcon X]

Oh, well 2E, being much more hardcore and unfair then super safe and nerfed 3E, was much more fun. In 2E, any time you spent on the Astral caught up to you once you left the plane. A couple of days or even a week would not matter much......but if you were to spend say 100 years on the Astral, you'd age 100 years as soon as you left...Ah yes, I knew there was more of a reason I was asking this question. It's been a long time since I've read the books.
So, if you age retroactively when you come out of Astral, how does that look?
A. For adults, does that work like going into our outer space with no gravity. If you spend two years on Astral, does that physical growth include the atrophy of not moving physically for 2 years. do they need to go planar once a day and run on a treadmill?

B. This may be partially answered by knowing that Githyanki raise their young outside Astral Space, but my A. thought applies to child-rearing. How does a body look if it's grown with no outside stimulus. Would it be tiny, muscleless, and with a weak heart. I mean, the heart muscle has never had to pump a drop. How is it supposed to instantly be strong enough to pump an entire adult body?


The danger of a timeless plane is that once one leaves such a plane for one where time flows normally, conditions such as hunger and aging do occur retroactively.
C. About hunger. So, you aren't in your physical body on the Astral. So, any eating you do is pretty much a trick of the mind to make you think you're eating. Is that enough to satisfy the retro-hunger that comes upon a body when leaving Astral?


Anubis is an interesting case in Planescape. Originally, its task was to shepherd the souls of worshipers of the Hebdomad through the Astral Plane. However, at one point, it changed its focus to guarding the corpses of dead gods. It seems to have cast off its divinity and doesn't even grant spells anymore. No one is quite sure what Anubis is, now, other than the very jealous guardian of the corpses of its former peers.Hurray for the Astral! Where the only things you'll find are dead gods and god's of the dead. (And their pet whales).

[Bronk]

About hunger. So, you aren't in your physical body on the Astral. So, any eating you do is pretty much a trick of the mind to make you think you're eating. Is that enough to satisfy the retro-hunger that comes upon a body when leaving Astral?

I think it's the other way around... If you use the Astral Projection spell, your body is left behind in suspended animation. It's if you go there with your body, via plane shift or portal or whatever, that you don't age and don't need to eat or drink. Once you leave, all that catches up to your body at once.

[Falcon X]

I think it's the other way around... If you use the Astral Projection spell, your body is left behind in suspended animation. It's if you go there with your body, via plane shift or portal or whatever, that you don't age and don't need to eat or drink. Once you leave, all that catches up to your body at once.
To specify, I am talking about going there physically rather than just Astrally Projecting. If I'm projecting, I just pretend I'm playing a mage in Shadowrun :)

The key thing I'm looking at is, even though you don't need to eat or drink, it still catches up to you when you leave. What does that catching up look like. If you've been there for a while, do you instantly keel over and die when you come out, because you haven't consumed water in over a week? Is it like your body hasn't been nourished at all during that time?

Or is this the interpretation of the word "retroactive" to mean that you are in the exact health, hunger, and bodily condition that you were in when you entered Astral.
- I lean towards this, because it fits with everything else that's been said.

[jedipotter]

You don't need to eat or drink in the Astral as time does not pass. But when it catches up to you? The rules don't say.

You could apply the survival rules from the DMG and sandstorm/forstburn. And just make all the rolls at once.

You could go with= more then a week is instant death.

[Bronk]

Hmm, looks like I had the wrong idea... the Manual of the Planes just says that all those natural processes just 'resume functioning' when characters leave the astral plane. I guess nothing bad happens at all, and no exciting aging to oblivion handicaps occur.

[Falcon X]

Hmm, looks like I had the wrong idea... the Manual of the Planes just says that all those natural processes just 'resume functioning' when characters leave the astral plane. I guess nothing bad happens at all, and no exciting aging to oblivion handicaps occur.

Yeah, that's what SRD says too. But I've read the other quote somewhere too. Was it from Planescape?
Regardless, this is a clarification and an answer to most of our questions.

[Gildedragon]

Pretty sure if not MoP the Planar Handbook says time jumps you when you leave a timeless plane

Though I do wonder: what time? How is the time-owed measured?

[Bronk]

Pretty sure if not MoP the Planar Handbook says time jumps you when you leave a timeless plane

Though I do wonder: what time? How is the time-owed measured?

Well, that part seems to be up to the DM for new planes. Under the timeless trait on MoP page 10, everything is described as 'might' do this or 'sometimes' do that, when creating your own timeless plane. I guess the official traits for the Astral use the 'nicest' version of each suggested rule.

[lunar2]

from the DMG


Timeless: On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the
effects of time are diminished. See the description of the Astral
Plane, page 154, for an example of how the timeless trait can affect
certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the
effects of poison, and healing.
The danger of a timeless plane is that once one leaves such a
plane for one where time flows normally, conditions such as
hunger and aging do occur retroactively. A character who hasn’t
eaten for ten years on a timeless plane might be ravenous (though
not dead), and one who has been “stuck” at age twenty for fifty
years might now reach age seventy in a heartbeat. Traditional tales
of folklore tell of places where heroes live hundreds of years, only
to crumble to dust as soon as they leave.

so hunger and thirst won't kill you, but you need to eat immediately, or start rolling dice for starvation. age does catch up to you, though. on one side of the portal, you're 20, and a perfectly healthy young adult. on the other side, you're 70, and venerable. if you stay too long, you might overstay your maximum age, if your race has one, in which case you can't leave at all without dying (and there ain't no coming back from death of old age).

also note that unless you are using sandstorm rules, hunger and thirst won't kill you anyway, since they deal only non-lethal damage. and you can always just eat a meal right before you leave, since hunger and thirst only track time since your last meal/drink, rather than overall nutrition.

[Bronk]

Right, except the aging works differently in the specific case of the Astral Plane.

[Devils_Advocate]

At least in PS, githyanki plane shift their eggs/young to other planes so they can mature.
Githyanki lay eggs? Somehow I'd thought that they were more human-like than that.


He's also apparently the laziest god considering he has one very simple task and has let the Gith set up shop on the body of a dead god, one of those he was charged with protecting.
That's a rather odd conclusion to draw. What I'd infer from that is that the gith aren't actually doing any harm to said divine corpse. Just what constitutes "harm" in this context I don't know, but barring information to the contrary, I'd assume it doesn't cover anything the githyanki are doing. Does it specify anywhere what Anubis protects gods' remains from?


So, you aren't in your physical body on the Astral.

To specify, I am talking about going there physically rather than just Astrally Projecting.
????????????????????????????

[searlefm]

from the DMG



if you stay too long, you might overstay your maximum age, if your race has one, in which case you can't leave at all without dying (and there ain't no coming back from death of old age).


i believe the moral of this story is find a bit of there Astral Plane you like as if you go there for a long time you really are left being unable to leave with out a lot of complications.
tho in certain timeless plans you cannot choose to leave as they literally claw at you mind leaving you unable to want to leave.