Need a quick sanity check

[pife]

Okay, trying to post from work, and don't have time or resources to dig for answers. I'm reaching out to the community and asking for an opinion.

Here's the scene.

A wizard, protected by Lesser Globe of Invulnerability is in the crow's nest of a pirate vessel. Another wizard casts a Fireball (changed to sonic via Energy Conversion), directly at the wizard. AoE of Lesser Globe is 10', Fireball is a 20' spread.

Is the Sonic Fireball;
A) Completely suppressed, because it originates in the area of the Lesser Globe?
B) Partially Suppressed, with the effect only occurring outside of the 10' radius

A sub-question would be; If the sonic fireball does do damage outside of the 10' protected area, it would obviously affect the mast of the ship, right? The fireball is due to cause 60 points of Sonic Damage, and, this would cause the mast to shatter at that location, thus dropping the bad-guy anyway. Am I off target here, or is that reasonable?

Thanks in advance for any input.

[John Longarrow]

Why not just aim for the mast?

And for the record, your check bounced.

[Brookshw]

My reading of the spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/globeOfInvulnerabilityLesser.htm) is that the effect would be supressed inside but affect things outside. It's specified that it doesn't dispel.

Edit: and yeah, sounds like the mast is toothpicks.

[pife]

Why not just aim for the mast?

And for the record, your check bounced.

I'm not the one casting the spell, lol. The wizard casting fireball is aiming for the crow's nest, and doesn't yet know about the Lesser Globe.

[ahenobarbi]

Edit: and yeah, sounds like the mast is toothpicks.

Not really. Wood has 5 hardness and 10 HP per inch of thickness so it has a chance of surviving.

[Fouredged Sword]

It would say that it depends on where the center of the blast is located. The globe stops the blast, and if the fireball is set to trigger INSIDE the globe, it is stopped enterly, as it is suppressed before it can boom. If the fireball is aimed OUTSIDE the globe, the globe stops the wizard from getting hurt, but the mast is likely toast.

Note, that a wooden wall 6" thick has 60HP and hardness 5. A mast can be considerably thicker than 6 inches thick, so I would suspect that the main mast of a ship would have more HP than a normal fireball can dish out with one casting. Your rigging and sails are shot, but your mast probably still stands. (fireball deals 60 damage at max CL and max roll)

[pife]

Not really. Wood has 5 hardness and 10 HP per inch of thickness so it has a chance of surviving.

True, but I'm willing to give them the 'rule of cool', and shatter the mast. My main concern is with interpreting the spell effect correctly.


It would say that it depends on where the center of the blast is located. The globe stops the blast, and if the fireball is set to trigger INSIDE the globe, it is stopped enterly, as it is suppressed before it can boom. If the fireball is aimed OUTSIDE the globe, the globe stops the wizard from getting hurt, but the mast is likely toast.

Note, that a wooden wall 6" thick has 60HP and hardness 5. A mast can be considerably thicker than 6 inches thick, so I would suspect that the main mast of a ship would have more HP than a normal fireball can dish out with one casting. Your rigging and sails are shot, but your mast probably still stands. (fireball deals 60 damage at max CL and max roll)

Well, the bad guy wizard is in the crows nest, and the good guy said that he is casting the spell directly at the crows nest. That's the part that I'm needing to verify. Would the Lesser Globe completely negate the fireball because the effect was supposed to begin within the area, or would there just be a 10' area of 'nothing' and then the "rest of" the sonic effect takes place just outside the Globe.

[Gildedragon]

Absolutely negated.
The little red (clear in this case?) bead of fire (sound) goes through the (explicitly permeable) sphere and is nixed.

[pife]

Absolutely negated.
The little red (clear in this case?) bead of fire (sound) goes through the (explicitly permeable) sphere and is nixed.

That's what I was afraid of. Ugh, he's gonna be frustrated.. The last spell he cast was counterspelled by this guy. Hate when that happens.

[Hecuba]

Absolutely negated.
The little red (clear in this case?) bead of fire (sound) goes through the (explicitly permeable) sphere and is nixed.

If looking strictly at RAW, I would disagree. Spells are not negated or dispelled by the globe: the space the globe protects is excluded from their effects and any spell entering the globe is suppressed. Thus the expected outcome would be B.

Narratively, however, A better matches what we would expect from fireball's fluff: an "explosion" and "detonation" don't have RAW standing here (at least to my knowledge), but I would generally presume that if the detonation is excluded the explosion would not happen.

[Fouredged Sword]

Interesting reading of the Globe

"Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled."

The fireball does nothing the round it was supposed to explode. Then, the ship sails forward 10ft, and the point of the fireball moves out of the globe area, and becomes no longer suppressed, and then explodes BEHIND the wizard.

EDIT - as for the above thought, does a globe block line of effect? If yes, then the fireball centered inside the globe has no line of effect to anywhere and does nothing, if no, then the fireball hits everything around the globe.

[Hecuba]

EDIT - as for the above thought, does a globe block line of effect? If yes, then the fireball centered inside the globe has no line of effect to anywhere and does nothing, if no, then the fireball hits everything around the globe.

No, it does not.


The fireball does nothing the round it was supposed to explode. Then, the ship sails forward 10ft, and the point of the fireball moves out of the globe area, and becomes no longer suppressed, and then explodes BEHIND the wizard.

One of the more problematic issues with fireball is that it, despite it being described as creating something (bead) with a travel time, it is an instantaneous effect filling a 20 foot radius. 1 round after it was cast, the fireball effect no longer exists.

Ignoring the bead causes some wonky effects (like the explosion originating from a detonation that never happened), but trying to work with the bead also requires some hand-waving (your example for the moving globe, and questions like whether or not you can ready an action to attack the bead in flight).

In practice, I find the former more jarring. I would use option A in most games, but I do think option B is more consistent with RAW.

[Gildedragon]

Fireball is an instant burst effect.
A suppressed instant effect does not happen later, it just doesn't happen
And LoE is cut all over by LGI so it cannot extend past the 10'

[iTookUrNick]

If looking strictly at RAW, I would disagree. Spells are not negated or dispelled by the globe: the space the globe protects is excluded from their effects and any spell entering the globe is suppressed. Thus the expected outcome would be B.

Narratively, however, A better matches what we would expect from fireball's fluff: an "explosion" and "detonation" don't have RAW standing here (at least to my knowledge), but I would generally presume that if the detonation is excluded the explosion would not happen.
I think this is the best answer.

I would personally go with B, the fireball "explodes" as normal but it has no effect within the field. My rationale behind it is that since spells can be cast through or out of the globe, then the globe act as a "mask" that suppress the effects happening inside. The effect is still happening, even if we do not see it.

However, one could not be faulted with doing the opposite.

[Hecuba]

And LoE is cut all over by LGI so it cannot extend past the 10'
Where are you getting that Globes block Line of Effect? You can specifically cast through them without issue.