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Iudex Fatarum
2007-02-13, 08:16 PM
So I was recently DMing a campaign and I had a character build a lvl 1 character that was able to reach the massive damage threshhold. The way he pulled this off was
1. a full orc psychic warrior, 22 strength
2. then used expansion. He used expansion to make himself 24 strength
3. Crited on a great axe

This caused him to have 3d12 + 30 damage possible and he was able to do 60 damage. So my question is does any one know how to pull off an ECL 1 character that is able to reach the massive damage threshhold?

P.S. I lso thought the character was interesting, intelegence of 6 and so he thought he was a barbarian but had been exiled because when he "raged" he grew a size catagory.

Tengu
2007-02-13, 08:19 PM
Actually, his weapon's base damage would also increase when using expansion. You might also consider scythe instead of a greataxe, it deals much better damage on a crit.

Spasticteapot
2007-02-13, 08:46 PM
Actually, his weapon's base damage would also increase when using expansion. You might also consider scythe instead of a greataxe, it deals much better damage on a crit.

What we need to do now is find some way to give him at least a 25% chance of a crit on each attack.

Also, consider multiclassing to Barbarian. Orcs have it as a favored class, and there's nothing wrong with an additional +4 to strength.

Person_Man
2007-02-13, 10:36 PM
Using a lance two handed from horseback, a first level human Fighter with Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack, Spirited Charge, and 18 Str.

On a normal charge, he deals 3d8+18 damage. If he crits, its 5d8+30.

There are a bunch of ways to get high damage at early levels. That's why the real challenge of combat is tactics, not lucky dice rolls. Terrain, flight, reach, invisibility, ambushes, magic, etc.

Draz74
2007-02-13, 10:41 PM
What we need to do now is find some way to give him at least a 25% chance of a crit on each attack.

Also, consider multiclassing to Barbarian. Orcs have it as a favored class, and there's nothing wrong with an additional +4 to strength.


As soon as you show me how an ECL 1 character can multiclass. :smallconfused:

Deathcow
2007-02-13, 10:47 PM
...actually, I'm pretty sure there was a variant rule for multiclass 1st level characters somewhere... might have been the 3.0 DMG. You probably wouldnt have gotten both rage and spellcasting, though.

Draz74
2007-02-13, 11:55 PM
Yeah, it was 3.0. They deliberately got rid of it in 3.5.

Deepblue706
2007-02-14, 12:02 AM
"Apprentice Levels"

Basically...you got abilities from classes you didn't currently have levels in but you HAD to make that class your next level up, or something.

Yeah, I don't think they really thought that one out too well.

Quietus
2007-02-14, 04:40 AM
Half-orc, 20 strength, barbarian, scythe. In a rage, 24 strength - +10 to damage. If you crit, 8d4x40.

Any questions?

Belkarseviltwin
2007-02-14, 06:55 AM
Half-orc, 20 strength, barbarian, scythe. In a rage, 24 strength - +10 to damage. If you crit, 8d4x40.

Any questions?

Surely 8d4+40 not 8d4x40...

Soepvork
2007-02-14, 07:11 AM
Might as well add in Powerful charge (feat) for an extra d8 (or 2d6) worth of damage

Ikkitosen
2007-02-14, 07:15 AM
Yeah, it's when they do lots of damage without a crit that's more important. Like when they leap attack with a 2-H weapon. These tactics are generally more available at higher levels.

Person_Man
2007-02-14, 10:41 AM
Yeah, it's when they do lots of damage without a crit that's more important. Like when they leap attack with a 2-H weapon. These tactics are generally more available at higher levels.

High levels?

You can get Spirited Charge or Battle Jump at 1st level. Knock-down only requires +2 BAB. Headlong Rush kicks in for Orcish characters at +4. Leap Attack at 5th level. Shock Trooper at 6th.

So even a low level Fighter who knows what he's doing can deal Massive damage pretty early. It's harder for other classes because they lack the precious bonus feats. But most melee combat builds I've seen pick up 2 levels of Fighter early on, and even if they forgoe them, they can still get pretty good feat combos by 12th level.

Marek Haldir
2007-02-14, 01:15 PM
You know, that's neat 'n all, but who really needs to do that much damage at 1st level? What are you fighting that has that many HP that it would even survive the blow so that you would need to have it roll a massive damage fort save? and not just die because it's already at -30 HP or something.

Neek
2007-02-14, 01:23 PM
Quick leveling by grinding the 7th-level city guards, I would reckon.

talsine
2007-02-14, 01:40 PM
Quick leveling by grinding the 7th-level city guards, I would reckon.

someones been playing too much EQ lately...

okpokalypse
2007-02-14, 02:34 PM
L1 Half-Orc Psychic Warrior

18 Strength, 4 Ranks in Jump, Run Feat (+4 to Jump Checks), Acrobatic Feat (+2 to Jump Checks).

Base Jump Skill @ L1 = +14.

Menifest Expansion to go Size L. Obese PC weighs 300 Lbs and carries 100 Lbs of gear. Expansion = 4,000 Lbs.

His new Large Size means rolling a 2 on a jump check gets him high enough to crush someone beneath him for 20d6 Damage (Falling Damage... 1d6 per 200 Lbs of Falling Object per 10 ft - Max 20d6).

So there ya go. L1. 20d6 Damage. (70 on Average).

No hit-roll needed, just a jump check :)

Rigeld2
2007-02-14, 02:52 PM
No hit-roll needed, just a jump check :)
Except.. theres no rules for jumping onto someone. Sure, he jumps high enough in the air, but that doesnt mean he can actually land on someone, RAW.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-14, 02:53 PM
L1 Half-Orc Psychic Warrior

18 Strength, 4 Ranks in Jump, Run Feat (+4 to Jump Checks), Acrobatic Feat (+2 to Jump Checks).

Base Jump Skill @ L1 = +14.

Menifest Expansion to go Size L. Obese PC weighs 300 Lbs and carries 100 Lbs of gear. Expansion = 4,000 Lbs.

His new Large Size means rolling a 2 on a jump check gets him high enough to crush someone beneath him for 20d6 Damage (Falling Damage... 1d6 per 200 Lbs of Falling Object per 10 ft - Max 20d6).

So there ya go. L1. 20d6 Damage. (70 on Average).

No hit-roll needed, just a jump check :)

And when he lands, he can yell, "It's-a me, Mario!"

Setra
2007-02-14, 03:03 PM
And when he lands, he can yell, "It's-a me, Mario!"
:smalleek: Of course! It all makes sense now!

jjpickar
2007-02-14, 09:14 PM
I think we should officially dub it "The Mario Build."

Arceliar
2007-02-14, 10:01 PM
I think we should officially dub it "The Mario Build."

I'll second that...

*Edit: Leap of Heavens (from PHB2) only requires 4 ranks in jump. It gives a +5 on jump checks if you move 20ft and keeps the DC from doubling if you stand still. Lets Mr. Mario pull his ready-action-till-mr-koopa(kobold?)-charges-him.

*Edit Edit: Oh yeah, and every 10ft past 30ft your speed is you get another +4 bonus to jump checks. Xephs can 3x their day increase their speed (by 10ft at first level). The Speed of Thought psionic feat also increases speed and could be worth considering...

Ikkitosen
2007-02-15, 07:05 AM
High levels?

As in generally not at 1st, yes.

Person_Man
2007-02-15, 11:05 AM
Luigi

Half-Orc Monk 6/Psionic Fist 9

Notable Powers: Stomp, Expansion, Psionic Lion's Charge.

Items: Ring of Improved Jumping, +1 Flaming Shuriken

Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Wild Talent, Headlong Rush, Knock-Down, Leap of Heavens, Battle Jump.

Battle Jump is from Unapprouchable East. It gives you double damage on a charge as long as you drop from 15 feet above them.

Headlong Rush is from Races of Faerun. It gives orcs or half orcs double damage on a charge, but provokes AoO from everyone along the way (which is why the reach from Expansion is so important).

Leap of Heavens+Battle Jump+Headlong Rush+Psionic Lion's Charge+Stunning Fist+Flurry+Knock-Down+Improved Trip = Flattened enemies (and then you finish off your Flurry by throwing Flaming Shuriken)

At higher levels, you could probably fit in a Quickened Stomp.

okpokalypse
2007-02-15, 11:14 AM
Except.. theres no rules for jumping onto someone. Sure, he jumps high enough in the air, but that doesnt mean he can actually land on someone, RAW.

He's treated as a falling object to those underneath.

And because it's large, it's a 2x2 area - so it's kinda like an AoE as well.

Rigeld2
2007-02-15, 03:16 PM
He's treated as a falling object to those underneath.

And because it's large, it's a 2x2 area - so it's kinda like an AoE as well.
Cite a rule.

Raool
2007-02-16, 11:06 AM
Duskblade with 18 STR and a Greataxe power attacking and using Blade of Blood spell as a swift action. If he would crit with the axe the damage would be: 3d12+6+2+3d6. 14-62 (45 avg. dmg.)

lared
2007-02-16, 12:30 PM
I've yet to see a level 1 build that matches the one below:



Date : 08-22-06 02:53 PM

Okay, without using a single special rule, flaw, or race I will use a dirty trick shown to me by another on the boards here.

human Commoner 1

Cha-maxed (though not neccessary)
Skills- Handle Animal 4
Feats - Merchantile Background (FRcompendium), Skill Focus (animal Handling)
all other stats don't matter

Spend all starting gold on a herd of cattle. With the Merchantile background, that is an extra 300 gp. If I remember right, they cost like 5 gp each, so that would total of 100 cows.

Strategy- go prone and say "moo", which is "repeatedly run over that guy over there that I'm pointing to" in Cowsh. The enemy, if within 160' is charged over by the cows, needing no attack roll and causing 1d12 damage plus strength per 3 in the herd. If I remembered by numbers right, that is exactly 33d12+132 damage to everything in a 160' x 200' swath.

If the enemy survives that, you say 'Mooo' which means "come back here and get a treat after running over that guy again just for the fun of it" in eastern Cowsh (taught to the cows during 'off time' since you don't waste your time reading books or practicing anything useful). Repeat until combat ends.

This can take out just about anything I have seen here, by an NPC who has no weapons or training outside cowherding.

The poster of this actually got some of the math wrong; the commoner only has enough money to buy 50 cows. He's using stampede rules in the SRD under the bison entry.

Person_Man
2007-02-16, 01:54 PM
I've yet to see a level 1 build that matches the one below:



The poster of this actually got some of the math wrong; the commoner only has enough money to buy 50 cows. He's using stampede rules in the SRD under the bison entry.

LOL. Sadly, the first thing I thought was what a poor build it was before breaking out into hysterical laughter. It's defeated by any spellcaster with Fly. Heck, even Warlocks and Dragonfire Adepts could kick his butt. It does give me some funny ideas for an encounter though...

lared
2007-02-16, 02:32 PM
Another one I like from those wacky CharOp folks, using a first-level stance from Tome of Battle:



The Tiger Claw stance "Blood in the Water" is interesting for several reasons. For one thing, it implies that untyped bonuses CAN stack with themselves, but that's only an implication; it does, however, explicitly say that the untyped bonus it provides can stack with itself.

That bonus is a +1 to attack and damage rolls whenever you score a crit. This bonus has a very unusual duration; it lasts until you go one minute without scoring a critical hit, at which point it resets to 0.

Therefore, theoretically, you could continue building your bonus forever, if you could ensure that you inficted a critical hit at least once a minute.

How to do that, though? Well, here are a few interesting points to ponder:

1. A coup de grace automatically inflicts a critical hit.
2. The bonus from Blood in the Water applies to all attacks; the critical hit you score need not be with the weapons you plan to use in combat.

Therefore, the following bit of lunacy is possible:

1. Acquire a small, very sturdy critter. You want one with a high Fortitude save, and ideally one with high damage reduction. You absolutely do not want one immune to critical hits.
2. Render it helpless by whichever means you deem most convenient.
3. At least once a minute, pull it out and coup de grace it with your bare hand. This should inflict minimal damage, and your whipping boy should easily survive it if you've chosen well. Ideally, the whipping boy won't even feel it.
4. You will, however, have inflicted a critical hit, and therefore, your bonus will continue to build.


A spirited discussion followed wherein posters tried to identify the most reliable and optimized way to obtain this bonus.

Black Hand
2007-02-16, 03:07 PM
1. a full orc psychic warrior, 22 strength
2. then used expansion. He used expansion to make himself 24 strength
3. Crited on a great axe

This caused him to have 3d12 + 30 damage possible and he was able to do 60 damage. So my question is does any one know how to pull off an ECL 1 character that is able to reach the massive damage threshhold?



**Answer**

Skeletons!! ...lots of them! No crit's and 1/2 damage from slashing :smallbiggrin:

Vik
2007-02-22, 02:10 PM
**Answer**

Skeletons!! ...lots of them! No crit's and 1/2 damage from slashing :smallbiggrin: Err ... :
1. With damages of 1d12+10, reduced to 1d12+5 on skeletons - who no longer takes 1/2 damage from slashing but have DR 5/bludgeonning, your skeletons won't last long.
2. You can't have only skeletons as encounters ... Or the rogue will hate you.
3. On another hand, the priest will love you for making him even more powerful than he already is.

Roderick_BR
2007-02-22, 02:43 PM
Quick question about the "Mario build"... won't falling damage... hurt him also? There must be a reason you don't see giants jumping on adventurers...

KoDT69
2007-02-22, 02:54 PM
Oh man I gotta use a hoarde of Stone Giants dressed in red and/or green overalls, speaking Italian, and jumping on the PC's. Oh boy this is gonna be fun (for me anyway) :smallcool:

Person_Man
2007-02-22, 03:24 PM
Quick question about the "Mario build"... won't falling damage... hurt him also? There must be a reason you don't see giants jumping on adventurers...

Yes. But I think max falling damage is 10d6 or something similar, which is why you should use my Luigi build or something similar if you want a leaping Italian that stomps on things.

Roderick_BR
2007-02-23, 08:40 AM
Yes. But I think max falling damage is 10d6 or something similar, which is why you should use my Luigi build or something similar if you want a leaping Italian that stomps on things.
Ah, the old "a 10th level fighter can fall from any height and survive" joke. Yeah, a team of leaping giants would be fun...
First, the characters try to find out what is causing the earthquakes in the kindgom... XD

InaVegt
2007-02-23, 08:59 AM
Quick question about the "Mario build"... won't falling damage... hurt him also? There must be a reason you don't see giants jumping on adventurers...
No, it won't.

Falling Damage The basic rule is simple: 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6.
If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#nonlethalDamage). A DC 15 Jump (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm)Tumble (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm) check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. check or DC 15 Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumped, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Jump (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm) or Tumble (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm) check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge.
Falls onto yielding surfaces (soft ground, mud) also convert the first 1d6 of damage to nonlethal damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#nonlethalDamage). This reduction is cumulative with reduced damage due to deliberate jumps and the Jump (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm) skill.


Since the trick only requires you to reach 10 feet of height, and mario has a +14 bonus on jump checks, as well as jumped deliberately. Reaching no falling damage.

AtomicKitKat
2007-02-26, 05:02 AM
Hmm, smacking around a tough familiar... Sounds like the Trouserfang Dwarf all over again. I figured on maybe keeping a small Elemental in your pocket, but they don't get DR till Large. :/

Wehrkind
2007-02-26, 05:31 AM
Amusingly enough, death by a pile of cattle is how Mowgli kills off Sher Khan in "The Jungle Book." Sort of funny to see it come back up as a "power build." Kipling would be proud.

I think to make it work as a character concept you would need some sort of special magical item, perhaps a Bag of Bountiful Bovines, that acts as a gate, that only allows cows to pass, to a plane. A plane perfect for the production of vast amounts of cows, say an endless expanse of lush green fields, criss crossed by fences making 200x200 yard squares with a single chestnut tree in the center, with a stream running by it. You could call it 'the Mootrix'. The character opens the bag and calls forth (d10+Animal Handling ranks) x10 cows, which he can then throw at his enemies.

Malachite
2007-02-26, 06:25 AM
Bag of Bountiful Bovines

I'm so stealing this idea :smallbiggrin:

brian c
2007-02-26, 06:53 AM
Err ... :
1. With damages of 1d12+10, reduced to 1d12+5 on skeletons - who no longer takes 1/2 damage from slashing but have DR 5/bludgeonning, your skeletons won't last long.
2. You can't have only skeletons as encounters ... Or the rogue will hate you.
3. On another hand, the priest will love you for making him even more powerful than he already is.

I was in a game once where we had an encounter that was all skeletons. I was the rogue. And yes, it was pretty goddamn annoying, especially since I had a piercing weapon (and I think the DM was still going by the 1/2 damage rule)

edit: hey, I'm not a pixie anymore! woohoo

Doc_Outlands
2007-02-26, 11:55 AM
One of the early series of games I ran under 3.0 included a Ranger w/ FavEnemy: Undead who carried a pair of light maces just in case. I made sure she got the chance to use them...

Subotei
2007-02-26, 12:09 PM
I'm gonna risk showing my shaky DnD knowledge here, but won't the target of the jump attack get an AoO on the jumper for moving into the threat range?

Missing Shoe
2007-02-26, 12:32 PM
And when he lands, he can yell, "It's-a me, Mario!"

I was thinking more of Boondock Saints' "Friggin huge guy" crushing theory.

Matthew
2007-02-26, 02:40 PM
I'm gonna risk showing my shaky DnD knowledge here, but won't the target of the jump attack get an AoO on the jumper for moving into the threat range?

Moving out of his Threat Range, I think you mean (i.e. into his Square). It depends if the Jumper has the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat and whether jumping on somebody qualifies as an Unarmed Strike.

Subotei
2007-02-26, 03:01 PM
Moving out of his Threat Range, I think you mean (i.e. into his Square). It depends if the Jumper has the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat and whether jumping on somebody qualifies as an Unarmed Strike.

Thats exactly what I was trying to say - thanks Matthew. You don't get AoO on enemies moving up to you to engage, but when they move through that 5 ft square into the square you occupy then surely you should get an AoO.

Rigeld2
2007-02-26, 05:13 PM
But seriously... where are the rules for jumping on someone?

Cowboy_ninja
2007-02-26, 05:50 PM
But seriously... where are the rules for jumping on someone?

they are useing rules for falling objects. only in this case the object is a person who jumped into the air.

where the rules on falling objects is i do not know.


so yea... where are the rules on falling objects? DMG? DMGII?

Steelmojo
2007-02-26, 06:31 PM
There are rules for falling objects in the Wilderness and Exploration segment of the System Resource Document. Since the document came out after the books, the rules might not be in them. These are the rules, cut and pasted:

FALLING OBJECTS
Just as characters take damage when they fall more than 10 feet, so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects. Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their weight and the distance they have fallen. For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first (to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage).
Objects smaller than 200 pounds also deal damage when dropped, but they must fall farther to deal the same damage. Use Table: Damage from Falling Objects to see how far an object of a given weight must drop to deal 1d6 points of damage.

Table: Damage from Falling Objects
Object Weight Falling Distance
200–101 lb. 20 ft.
100–51 lb. 30 ft.
50–31 lb. 40 ft.
30–11 lb. 50 ft.
10–6 lb. 60 ft.
5–1 lb. 70 ft.
For each additional increment an object falls, it deals an additional 1d6 points of damage.
Objects weighing less than 1 pound do not deal damage to those they land upon, no matter how far they have fallen.

Rigeld2
2007-02-26, 06:39 PM
Theres nothing in ther about hitting something youre falling on. Thats what I meant. Without that, the "Mario Build" is worthless, and as far as I know, it doesnt exist RAW.

Gamebird
2007-02-26, 07:00 PM
Also, in D&D 3.X, "object" is a carefully defined word that means "anything that's not a creature". There are no rules for characters falling on anything and doing damage to anything other than themselves. There are, however, rules for objects falling on things.

So I suppose now we have to figure out how to have your Mario leap into the air and then die suddenly, because corpses are objects.

Edit: Ah, wait - got it. It's that AoO. If your foe hits you and kills you, *then* you get to land on him for surprising amounts of damage. If he misses, then your DM gets to cry as he seeks and fails to find rules for a character landing in an occupied square.

This dilemma came up for me a few weeks ago as I sought in vain for rules for "crashing" a flying creature. I had this zombie wyvern, and if it flies over the PCs and makes an attack, being a zombie limited to one action a round, it would immediately fall. Which would be over the PCs, so how to tell how much damage it would do to them, if any? And how to figure out who was in what square, prone or not, etc. Eventually I agreed with other posters that there were no rules for it and I've had the thing fighting from the ground (well, actually a ledge).

AtomicKitKat
2007-02-27, 09:20 PM
As I remembered it, a zombie was allowed to move+attack in the same round, but only on a charge. I think that got lost amidst the other things that were said though.

Arceliar
2007-02-27, 09:25 PM
What about falling objects (shoes) that carry a large amount of weight (mario)?

Iudex Fatarum
2007-02-27, 11:51 PM
how did our first level psychic warrior get two feats since he is half orc?

Rigeld2
2007-02-28, 06:57 AM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm

Whats the first level ability?

Subotei
2007-02-28, 07:37 AM
Theres nothing in ther about hitting something youre falling on. Thats what I meant. Without that, the "Mario Build" is worthless, and as far as I know, it doesnt exist RAW.

I would consider it an unarmed attack. I don't think I'd allow a character to use purely his weight as a weapon like this - there is no equivalent for weight to be taken into account with a charging action, even though a warhorse plus rider and gear probably weighs 1000 pounds plus, and could be moving at 30 miles an hour. Come to think of it the bonuses for charging are rubbish, but thats another thread.

Are there rules for deliberately dropping objects as weapons? If not I'd consider it a ranged attack with a range increment of 10 feet. I'd allow the extra falling damage in these circumstances - for dropped rocks etc it makes sense.

Rigeld2
2007-02-28, 07:47 AM
"I'd consider..."
So there arent any rules for it? Didnt think so. So its not a legal damage build RAW. Giving rules for it invites worse twinkery than Pun Pun.

The Luigi build I like :p

Iudex Fatarum
2007-02-28, 08:15 AM
my question still stands, where is he getting both Run and Acrobat at first level? since he is half orc, psychic warrior only gets a fighter bonus feat.

Rigeld2
2007-02-28, 08:19 AM
I didnt even look at his feats - tho making him Human doesnt change the "build" at all.

My apologies if you took my post rudely.

Not that it matters about the feats - theres no RAW way to jump on people.

Iudex Fatarum
2007-02-28, 10:33 AM
except it reduces the jump check by 1, course ths realy doesn't matter much, it woudl be interesting to get a character who does this, i'd rule he gets a free grapple check, after all a few thousand pounds droping on someone tends to render them prone, i'd even let them make the check to make the person prone.

Gamebird
2007-02-28, 10:55 AM
Most light horses weigh 800-1200 pounds by themselves. Heavy horses can weigh up to 2000 without getting into world record type stuff. So it's safer to assume a heavy war horse with a rider, armor, barding and gear probably weighs 2000 pounds than 1000.

Not that I'm nit-picky or a horse-fanatic or anything. :smallwink:

Subotei
2007-02-28, 11:44 AM
Most light horses weigh 800-1200 pounds by themselves. Heavy horses can weigh up to 2000 without getting into world record type stuff. So it's safer to assume a heavy war horse with a rider, armor, barding and gear probably weighs 2000 pounds than 1000.

Not that I'm nit-picky or a horse-fanatic or anything. :smallwink:

Thanks for the correction - I didn't bother looking up my figures - it was just a guesstimate to illustrate my point.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-02-28, 12:13 PM
Sorry to have to stoop this low, but I think that Lvl 1 is all that's needed to become Pun-Pun now. Be a venerably human with bonuses to your 'Know (planes) skill to +29, and then summon Pazuzu. The wish that he then gives you can be manipulated into making you a sarrukh, etc.

KoDT69
2007-02-28, 12:51 PM
Haha I used 2 Mario builds against my level 8 group last night. I used a 7,000 lbs Fire Giant as Mario, and a 12,000 lbs Storm Giant as Luigi. There were 4 Stone Giants attacking the village they were camping in and the Mario Brothers wearing red and green huge overalls came charging from a distance. After the last Stone Giant dropped the Mario Brothers were at range and took their massive leaps. Only the monk got splattered (literally) by Luigi in the first round. They ganged up on Mario assuming his weaker status and dropped him by round 3 with a well placed charge attack from the party's Beast Rider :smalltongue: The bad part was that I rolled the right percentage for Luigi to have clerical powers which he used to resurrect Mario. Yes I know resurrect has like a 1 hour casting but we always use it as a standard action in combat for the party AND for the enemies, just to make it interesting (even though this group can't cast it yet it only made the encounter a higher CR). They killed Luigi 2 rounds later who dropped over dead right on top of the bard who was left 3 damage away from death. The party Rogue took a massive stomp an was also reduced to jelly as the monk. It took 12 rounds of harsh combat and only 2 characters were even remotely healthy after that! Everyone loved that encounter! The cleric even summoned a hoarde of 2HD black beetles like the ones in Super Mario 1 back in the day even though he could have been much more efficient to attack or cast something good, it just added to the fun. My question though, what CR should that encounter be? They were standard Fire and Storm Giants +2 HD each and Mario Build tactics. :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: :smallbiggrin: