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ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-14, 12:03 AM
Okay, while trying to work on the Starcraft units, I thought of a clever way of doing the terran units...

Marines and Firebats are nothing more than Humans with class levels in Soldier (from Star Wars D20... basically a Fighter class with crapton of feats, only they're actually useful). Use the Star Wars D20 system feats, which will let them fire a LOT of times per round, depending on their weapon.

Now then, their weapon is going to be tricky to stat. I'd call it 1d10, crit 19-20/X2, only it fires one heck of a lot faster than a heavy crossbow. Let 'em pick up Rapid Fire and other stuff.

Firebats weapons have an effect similar to Burning Hands, it does elemental fire damage rather than physical damage, in an area effect (maybe line rather than cone?). Have it doing something like 2d6 per hit, crit nat 20/X3.

Ghosts are a bit trickier. Going to likely have to write up either a base class or PrC for these guys. Going to dip a few Psionic powers (like Psionic Invisibility, Greater, to mimic the Stealth ability, don't know how I'm going to do Lockdown yet) and a different skillset, probably ending up looking a hell of a lot like a Ranger's skillset, actually, only with less nature stuff.

Medics... these will be tricky. At first, I'd say Cleric, but that just doesn't jive. Probably going to have to use some sort of power point thing to trade off PP for hits healed, getting more efficent as you progress in levels, and curing of status ailments after a wihle as well, with the Blindness ability being thrown in somewhere too.

mikeejimbo
2007-02-14, 12:07 AM
I would not at all be adverse to giving some of these guys more abilities than were shown in Starcraft, too. I think that would be neat.

Also, all of the Medic's things should be touch only obviously, but what if they could have some other 'cleric-like' buffs, explained by the fluff of them administering drugs? (Like the stim pack, but only Medics have them in this case.)

Duskwither
2007-02-14, 12:54 AM
I rather like the idea of statting out some of the Starcraft things. I've been into Blizzard's things since Warcraft II, and I've even given the D20 Warcraft RPG a spin which I found quite enjoyable.

Although, remembering Stimpacks... I'd say... Uh... Third Edition Haste? :D

Edit: Fixing my atrocious spelling.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-14, 01:15 AM
I rather like the idea of statting out some of the Starcraft things. I've been into Blizzard's things since Warcraft II, and I've even given the D20 Warcraft RPG a spin which I found quite enjoyable.

Although, remembering Stimpacks... I'd say... Uh... Third Edition Haste? :D

Edit: Fixing my atrocious spelling.

Stimpacks... nah, no need for 3.0 haste, probably single-target 3.0 haste. One extra attack with a full attack and extra run speed. It'll do xd6 and last y rounds, haven't decided how many yet.

Icewalker
2007-02-14, 02:11 AM
I like em. One thing about ghosts is they have their own rifles. Some kind of heavy sniper rifle, real heavy damage, maybe a slow reload or something. Don't know about the slowness, but maybe 2d8 damage 19-20/x2 crit? Or maybe an even better crit (they are all sneaky and killy after all).

I agree, they should get more abilities than they did in Starcraft, or there might not be enough stuff to go around. Just a little extra, some specialized stim drugs, maybe another weapon or some such...the Goliath Assault Rifle, some massive weapon that is set up by a team of two, attacking very fast, and dealing good damage (3d6? 2d10?). These would be the ones which Goliaths are equipped with a pair of.

Behold_the_Void
2007-02-14, 02:27 AM
I'd use the D20 Modern and D20 Future books, which offer a pretty decent start as far as gear, basic and advanced classes.

Poukis
2007-02-14, 02:33 AM
I am pretty sure that there is a warhammer 40k rpg coming out, so you could wait and steal some ideas from it :) I know it's not D20, but methinks it will have something stealable, I mean, starcraft got lots of things from warhammer 40k, and the marine is basically a space marine (only that the first one is a sentenced criminal and the other is a biological engineered enhance freak :p) I had a n alternity starcraft somewhere like 7 years ago but I can't find it :( Anyhow, I hope it works out for ya :D
Cheers!

Imrix.
2007-02-14, 10:44 AM
Uh, excuse me, there IS a Warhammer 40k RPG and it's called Inquisitor!

http://www.specialist-games.com/inquisitor/default.asp

mikeejimbo
2007-02-14, 11:02 AM
I want Ghosts to have more psionic powers, for one, especially those related to telepathy.

TO_Incognito
2007-02-14, 12:46 PM
I've even given the D20 Warcraft RPG a spin which I found quite enjoyable.

Isn't the Scout class from the old Warcraft RPG the worst bas class ever made?


Definitely agree with linking ghosts and psionics somehow.

mikeejimbo
2007-02-14, 03:50 PM
I've been thinking about the Firebats. I think they deserve to be more or less their own class, since it seems to me that the kind of people who become Firebats are also pyromaniacs... so it takes a different kind of person.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-14, 04:05 PM
I've been thinking about the Firebats. I think they deserve to be more or less their own class, since it seems to me that the kind of people who become Firebats are also pyromaniacs... so it takes a different kind of person.

The base class I'm thinking about will be very customisable, think Fighter only not sucky. The difference between a firebat and a marine is the suit they wear...

mikeejimbo
2007-02-14, 04:11 PM
The base class I'm thinking about will be very customisable, think Fighter only not sucky. The difference between a firebat and a marine is the suit they wear...

As well as the proficiencies and specializations they select, right? I figured that would be the difference mechanically speaking, but if I roleplayed a firebat, he'd be a pyromaniac.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-14, 04:13 PM
As well as the proficiencies and specializations they select, right? I figured that would be the difference mechanically speaking, but if I roleplayed a firebat, he'd be a pyromaniac.

Being a Pyro is a purely RP aspect. But yes, you have a very flexable feat chain and proficency in both firebat and marine gear.

mikeejimbo
2007-02-14, 05:12 PM
All right, that sounds good then. I agree with that idea.

Yakk
2007-02-14, 09:40 PM
Class abilities should be divided between gear and skill.

As you advance, you get better gear from your terran masters.

The Orange Zergling
2007-02-14, 10:36 PM
As well as the proficiencies and specializations they select, right? I figured that would be the difference mechanically speaking, but if I roleplayed a firebat, he'd be a pyromaniac.

http://www.blizzplanet.com/coppermine/albums/starcraft/Unit%20Portraits/Firebat.gif "Need a light?"

But yes, I'd actually make a seperate class for each terran unit, seeing as they all have unique training... I think.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-14, 11:05 PM
http://www.blizzplanet.com/coppermine/albums/starcraft/Unit%20Portraits/Firebat.gif "Need a light?"

But yes, I'd actually make a seperate class for each terran unit, seeing as they all have unique training... I think.

Consider this, from a Crunch perspective. What sort of feats or abilities would you give the Firebat that you would not also give the marine? Contrarywise, what feats or abilities would you give a firebat that you do not also give a marine? The weapondry is simply equipment, that doesn't count. It should be easy enough to simply grant proficency in both weapon systems to a Grunt base class with enough flexability to be able to flesh out the character in question with whatever customisable feat chain you want.

If you look at the ranks, you'll notice that a Firebat outranks a Marine (and a siege tank is a Master Sargent). Perhaps a Firebat is just a Marine with a pyromanic tendency who lived long enough to get a promotion.

Neek
2007-02-14, 11:24 PM
That's a possibility.

Do remember the endeavor of the World of Warcraft d20 module is not meant to emulate WoW 100%--it provides a tabletop experience separate from the game. These Starcraft threads here should keep that in mind. And when you're playing these characters, you don't want to be restricted as much as a RTS unit is. You want to be able to jump into a siege tank and lay down some hurtage.

A Firebat doesn't need a Prestige Class to get their special abilities, only a different equipment package. I'd argue a Ghost would, though.

Hmm... it'd be nice to get some vehicle combat rules and stats for siege tanks.

The Orange Zergling
2007-02-15, 12:38 AM
Consider this, from a Crunch perspective. What sort of feats or abilities would you give the Firebat that you would not also give the marine? Contrarywise, what feats or abilities would you give a firebat that you do not also give a marine? The weapondry is simply equipment, that doesn't count. It should be easy enough to simply grant proficency in both weapon systems to a Grunt base class with enough flexability to be able to flesh out the character in question with whatever customisable feat chain you want.

If you look at the ranks, you'll notice that a Firebat outranks a Marine (and a siege tank is a Master Sargent). Perhaps a Firebat is just a Marine with a pyromanic tendency who lived long enough to get a promotion.


Uhh... you've backed me into a corner, I guess... but I still think they're entirely different combat styles, ranged combat versus close-combat.

Woot Spitum
2007-02-15, 12:52 PM
Isn't the Scout class from the old Warcraft RPG the worst bas class ever made?


Definitely agree with linking ghosts and psionics somehow.

Yes it is.

Now what about the zerg? Aberrations or Vermin?

I don't think it would be too hard to make a Zealot if you stole powered armor from the Star Wars RPG, although figuring out how to make a claw attack that does more damage than a machine gun burst could be tricky.

mikeejimbo
2007-02-15, 01:37 PM
Yes it is.

Now what about the zerg? Aberrations or Vermin?

I don't think it would be too hard to make a Zealot if you stole powered armor from the Star Wars RPG, although figuring out how to make a claw attack that does more damage than a machine gun burst could be tricky.

Many, many claw attacks, maybe?

On the Firebat discussion: I've never used a flamethrower, or automatic weaponry for that matter, but from what I've read and heard, it's a big difference.

For one, flamethrowers are highly inaccurate and don't actually make such good weapons.

But I still think they could be done as the same class, with customization, though I think there should be feats that are more marine-oriented and feats that are more firebat-oriented.

martyboy74
2007-02-15, 02:03 PM
The medic could be based on the healer(IIRC), except without the unicorn and with some actual buffs.

Holocron Coder
2007-02-15, 02:18 PM
Just to toss 2 cents into the firebat/marine debate, a parallel can be drawn for melee vs ranged fighters. Just two different styles contained in the same class.

Ghosts are extremely specialized, so they'd need their own class, honestly, especially with the psi twist. Psionics, somehow, as someone said.

Medics are almost not a class. More of a profession. In the RTS, all they were able to do is heal non-mechanical units and toss a few flash-bombs. Not sure if that requires its own class, or if you want to expand it to combat, as well as the heals and support.

Yakk
2007-02-15, 02:44 PM
Terrans rely heavily on their gear.

So why not have their gear level up with the character? Have a tree for the gear, and a tree for the character.

The Gear would provide HP, attack capabilities, etc. Some gear grants +1/2 BaB, other gear grants +1/4 BaB.

The character would provide skills, accuracy, etc. Some classes grant +1/2 BaB, other classes grant +1/4 BaB.

Out of the Gear, your character would have (con+1 per level) HP -- be squishy. In your Gear, you would have lots of HP.

Your class would indicate what gear you are qualified to pilot, together with what gear your bosses will trust you with. We want to be pretty liberal with your character's capability to pilot gear, because having some missions be in goliaths and others in marine gear would add spice.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-15, 04:10 PM
Terrans rely heavily on their gear.

So why not have their gear level up with the character? Have a tree for the gear, and a tree for the character.

The Gear would provide HP, attack capabilities, etc. Some gear grants +1/2 BaB, other gear grants +1/4 BaB.

The character would provide skills, accuracy, etc. Some classes grant +1/2 BaB, other classes grant +1/4 BaB.

Out of the Gear, your character would have (con+1 per level) HP -- be squishy. In your Gear, you would have lots of HP.

Your class would indicate what gear you are qualified to pilot, together with what gear your bosses will trust you with. We want to be pretty liberal with your character's capability to pilot gear, because having some missions be in goliaths and others in marine gear would add spice.

You... may have a point.

I was thinking more along the line of having class abilities which upgrade their weapons (Kensai, anyone?).

I would also say that a Marine's gun is a ranged weapon, wheras a Firebat's uses the same rules as a Double Weapon (it's got a pair of tubes, right?). This gives the Firebats more damage output, but Marines much more range. Also, the Firebat's weapon would be a reach weapon which can fire into melee, like the spiked chain, only without any of the trip/disarm nonsense.

So, say the Grunt (Marine/Firebat class) would look something like this:

Grunt:
D10 Hit Die
Good Fort, Poor Ref and Will

{table]Grunt Abilities By Level
1: Gear Up, Stim Packs
2: Bonus Feat (Rapid Shot/TWF)
3:
4: Weapon Upgrade: +1
5: Bonus Feat
6:
7: Armor Upgrade +1
8: Bonus Feat
9:
10: Weapon Upgrade +2
11: Bonus Feat
12:
13: Armor Upgrade +2
14: Bonus Feat
15:
16: Weapon Upgrade +3
17: Bonus Feat
18:
19:Armor Upgrade +3
20: Bonus Feat[/table]

Bonus Feats
A Grunt gains a bonus feat at 2nd level, which must be used either on Rapid Shot or Two Weapon Fighting, depending on his gear. He gains an additional feat every three levels thereafter which may be used on any appropriate feat. A Grunt is considered to be a Fighter for purposes of qualifying for feats.

Weapon Upgrade (Ex)
As a Marine or Firebat continues to prove himself worthy, his gear gets upgrades periodically. Each bonus counts as an enhancement bonus to both attack and damage. This starts at 4th level and goes up by +1 every 6 levels.

Every time the weapon systems get an upgrade, they gain a special ability as well, depending on the gear.
Armor Upgrade(Ex)

A Grunt also gains periodic upgrades to his armor as well. These are enhancement bonuses to both the Armor Bonus of his armor and to the DR it grants.

Some units gain special abilities as the armor gets upgraded as well

Yakk
2007-02-15, 04:22 PM
I was thinking building two trees.

The first is a class tree. It contains your character's skills and training. Everything from "pilot giant robot", "artillery", "use rifle" etc. Your classes here would grant you feats and skills.

On the other tree would be a gear tree. You would build each character's gear much like you would a character. Your gear determines your HP, your damage, many of your combat options, your AC, your movement speed, etc.

Because we aren't an RTS, we would allow custom gear loads. Many characters gear would be "multi-classed" (tweaked for faster movement, heavier armor, better weapon damage, stim packs, etc).

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-15, 04:39 PM
I was thinking building two trees.

The first is a class tree. It contains your character's skills and training. Everything from "pilot giant robot", "artillery", "use rifle" etc. Your classes here would grant you feats and skills.

On the other tree would be a gear tree. You would build each character's gear much like you would a character. Your gear determines your HP, your damage, many of your combat options, your AC, your movement speed, etc.

Because we aren't an RTS, we would allow custom gear loads. Many characters gear would be "multi-classed" (tweaked for faster movement, heavier armor, better weapon damage, stim packs, etc).

Mmm.. I'm not so sure about a twin-tree progression system.

Although I do have an awsome idea... Slightly twinked, the class can easily be used for anything from Marine and Firebat to Goliath, Siege Tank, and even Wraith pilot. BC is not an individual unit, it has a crew of several hundred. Likewise, science vessels are not single-person units.

About the only things this class can't handle is the Ghost and maybe Medic.

mikeejimbo
2007-02-15, 05:00 PM
Well, if we're going that route, there could be medic and ghost feats to accommodate them. Like a feat, "Psionic Aptitude" that gives you access to PP based on level. And taking it more than once would give you more, thus giving incentive to try a more or less psionic-oriented character, at which point you could reasonably call them a Ghost.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-15, 05:02 PM
Marine Gear
A Marine Suit comes standard with heavy powered armor and a big gun... what more could any ex-convict want?

Powered Armor. The Powered Armor from the standard Marine gear has an Armor bonus of +8, Max Dex bonus of +0, DR 1/Adamantine, and grants a +1 Equipment bonus on to-hit. IFF equipment in the gear also give this unit the effect of Precise Shot feat. The maximum speed in a Marine Suit is 30.

Stim Pack. The stim pack is a dangerous but very useful tool. Every time it is used, it does 2 points of con damage (not con burn), and gives the Marine Haste for 12 rounds.

.50 cal Vulcan Machine Gun. This bad boy does 1d10 19-20/x2, with a range of 110.
Upgrade 1: Depleted Uranium Shells give the Marine an effective range of 150.

Upgrade 2: Increased ROF and spray accuracy. Rapid Shot gives one additional shot, for a total of two extra. All rapid shot penalties are reduced by one.

Upgrade 3: Increased Penetration Aid allows the weapon to ignore the first 3 points of DR, reguardless of the type. Rapid Shot Penalties are negated.

Firebat Gear
A firebat comes equipped standard with Firebat Armor, Stim Pack, and the Flamethrower

Firebat Armor
The Powered Armor of a Firebat gives an armor bonus of +10, max dex bonus of +0, and DR 3/Adamantine.

Flamethrower
The Flamethrower is considered to be a melee weapon with a Line effect which hits opponents in the 5' and the 10' square in the direction he is aiming. He must make an attack roll against everything in those squares. It is considered to be a Double Weapon. You do not gain any strength bonuses to damage with the Flamethrower. The Flamethrower does 2d6 20/X3.

Upgrade 1: A Firebat gains an extra 5' to his line effect, so he now hits 5', 10', and 15' squares.

Upgrade 2: A Firebat gains an improved flamethrower which effectively gives them Improved Two Weapon Fighting, and does not stack with that feat. However, there is no -5 penalty for the second off-hand shot, and all TWF penalties are reduced by 1.

Upgrade 3: A Firebat's weapon now does 2d8 damage.

Behold_the_Void
2007-02-15, 11:50 PM
I'm going to plug D20 Modern (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Home.php) again.

I would say that a Marine or a Firebat would both be a combination of Strong Hero (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Strong.php) and Soldier (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Soldier.php).

Medics would be Dedicated Hero (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Dedicated.php) and Field Medic (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/FieldMedic.php).

You even have feats (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Feats.php) that can be applied to all kinds of different kinds of firearms, and a good amount of pre-existing firearms (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/EquipmentWeapons.php) that could easily be used or modified.

It doesn't appear to be in the D20 Modern SRD but there's also a Telepath advanced class, and I think Urban Arcana may have a few other psionic classes that would work for the Ghost.

Neek
2007-02-16, 01:05 PM
Couple of good ideas here.

Yakk suggested a decent concept with the gear levels. Have gear abilities be "unlocked" with Feats, and put them as a part of the Soldier Feat progression.

Say:

Firebat Gear I [Firebat]
Required: BAB +1, Armor Proficiency (Grunt Gear)
Benefit: You gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Flamethrower), lorem ipsum.

Firebat Gear II [Firebat]
Required: BAB +3, Firebat Gear I
Benefit: So on and so forth.

With a quick look at the units and their abilities, this should allow for a few starting choices: Soldier (Grunt gear, Firebat gear, Medic gear, Psi gear--with the Ghost prestige class), Vehicle (can't remember all these units), Pilot--which'd match the basic type of units with base classes. Perhaps add in a few types of new base classes to help.

Again, I'd have to check the units again to make 100%, but I think Gear levels would be a great idea (since it allows you to overlay Feat builds without ridiculously expanding the classes).

Solaris
2007-02-16, 08:11 PM
I'm going to plug D20 Modern (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Home.php) again.

I would say that a Marine or a Firebat would both be a combination of Strong Hero (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Strong.php) and Soldier (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Soldier.php).

Medics would be Dedicated Hero (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Dedicated.php) and Field Medic (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/FieldMedic.php).

You even have feats (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Feats.php) that can be applied to all kinds of different kinds of firearms, and a good amount of pre-existing firearms (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/EquipmentWeapons.php) that could easily be used or modified.

It doesn't appear to be in the D20 Modern SRD but there's also a Telepath advanced class, and I think Urban Arcana may have a few other psionic classes that would work for the Ghost.


You're looking for Advanced Classes II. The Telepath's in that document.
But . . . yes, take d20 Modern weapons into account. A d10 for a high-powered rifle is snicker-worthy if you compare it to pretty much any pistol (weakest do 2d4, average is 2d6). There is no sense in reinventing the wheel when it's already been done for you.

Tor the Fallen
2007-02-16, 08:29 PM
I'd make an actual telepath class, and have the ghost be the ranger equivalent (or ninja, or assassin, or whatever), in that it gets a handful of psi abilities, but nothing compared to a real Terran psychic (which would of course pale in comparison to a High Templar).

I think the flame throwers should be done like in the Starship Troopers d20. They fill up some squares with flame. Whatever's in them needs to make reflex saves, or begin to burn. Flamers ignore 3 DR of a xenomorph.

As the firebat levels up, he would essentially increase the save DC of his flamethrower.

mikeejimbo
2007-02-16, 10:50 PM
I like the idea of making the Ghost the ranger equivalent.

I think the firebat should get fire resistance.

And, there's a Starship Troopers d20? Heh, that's funny, I'm reading Starship Troopers now.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-17, 01:02 AM
I like the idea of making the Ghost the ranger equivalent.

I think the firebat should get fire resistance.

And, there's a Starship Troopers d20? Heh, that's funny, I'm reading Starship Troopers now.

The book by Heinlein has zero to do with the movie that was out a few years ago. The book is a look at a political view of a nation which requires time in the Armed Forces to become a full citizen and gain voting rights. The movie was a B-Rated action/adventure special effects movie which was, in my own opinion, nearly an insult to Heinlein.

I will look at the D20 modern. I will say that if marines are going to be toting around 2d6 weapons... that solves the balance issue. They'll be able to one-round zerglings easy. Particularly with Rapid Shot and full BAB.

Icewalker
2007-02-17, 03:30 AM
They shouldn't be able to one-round zerglings without being pretty high level. Looking at the game, if a round is the marine firing off two of his bursts, that should maybe half kill a zergling, which would get in about 3-4 hits.

Firebats on the other hand should probably be able to one round a zergling, I think.

As to ghosts, I think the requirements to get the ghost abilities should be strict enough that it should be extremely difficult to get both ghost abilities and a lot of other stuff, they should be primarily focused on psionics, stealth gear, and that heavy rifle.

roadkiller
2007-02-17, 03:48 PM
If I remember correctly, the marines carried guns that fired spikes, not bullets, and were designed for burst fire. Now, I'd say that when you are that much above everything else, you pretty much have to reinvent the wheel.

I do like the idea of ghosts having actual psionics. Once again, if I remember correctly, you had to have psionics of some sort to become a ghost, which lead to the zerg snagging Kerrigan. I think that the gun might have actually been loaded with some sort of explosive. If you watch wherever it hits, it's like a mini explosion.

Then again, my memory might not be that good. It's been quite a while since I've played.

mikeejimbo
2007-02-17, 03:50 PM
The book by Heinlein has zero to do with the movie that was out a few years ago. The book is a look at a political view of a nation which requires time in the Armed Forces to become a full citizen and gain voting rights. The movie was a B-Rated action/adventure special effects movie which was, in my own opinion, nearly an insult to Heinlein.

I knew that actually. So I take it the d20 game is more like the movie? It'd probably have to be.

Neek
2007-02-17, 05:52 PM
Starship Troopers was a fun movie, and it goes transparent in comparison to Heinlein's vision. (Goes also with Asimov's "I, Robot").

In a few hours, I'll construct the first Soldier class to allow for Marine, Firebat, and Medic (and if I can think of any others, I will) classes--possibly with the Gear level bolt-on. It wouldn't be too hard to rebuild the Ranger with psionic abilities for a Ghost, either.

Nightmarenny
2007-02-17, 06:30 PM
If I remember correctly, the marines carried guns that fired spikes, not bullets, and were designed for burst fire. Now, I'd say that when you are that much above everything else, you pretty much have to reinvent the wheel.

I do like the idea of ghosts having actual psionics. Once again, if I remember correctly, you had to have psionics of some sort to become a ghost, which lead to the zerg snagging Kerrigan. I think that the gun might have actually been loaded with some sort of explosive. If you watch wherever it hits, it's like a mini explosion.

Then again, my memory might not be that good. It's been quite a while since I've played.The marine Gauss Rifle has modular ammunition letting them switch between several kinds of ammunition should the need arries. Spike rounds(standard ammo), Splinter Rounds(designed to break into several peices when they hit the target) Rounds with longer range ect.

Ghost probably shouldn't be a prestiege class as Ghost were trained during
childhood.
The standard Ghost weapon is a canister rifle. Something like a larger shotgun with much better range. Exposive ammo and stuff. It fires slow but every hit hurts no matter who you are.

Demented
2007-02-17, 06:46 PM
Actually, the standard canister rifle doesn't do too well against armor. They'd need slug rounds.

Soldier, Pilot, and Ghost classes?

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-17, 07:45 PM
Soldier and Ghost, actually. Pilot can take the same 'grunt' package, and just apply it to whatever they are piloting. Put pilot (wraith), Pilot (Valkerie), Pilot (Siege Tank) and Pilot (Goliath) as class skills, and the pilots choose which one they want. They still get the same gear upgrades everyone else does, after all.

For Ghost, I'd look at something similar to PsiWar, actually. Perhaps the skill list of a Ranger (without all the nature stuff, of course), with all three sense skills and both hide and move silently, probably some kind of Computer Use skill for hacking and whatnot.

Abilities would include their stealth and lockdown abilities in addition to their gear upgrades that all other infantry get.

I think Ghost would be a PrC, with a prerequsite of having power points (so say Wild Talent feat would be needed). Other than that, probably low prerequsites... the ghost training is rather different from everything else, and quite extensive in itself. Let the enterance be around 5th level, maybe even 3rd.

As far as the gun, it sounded more like a semi-auto grenade launcher in rifle design, shooting frag grenades (which is why it bounced off of vehicular/building armor). Say any DR of a vehicle or building counts twice for the purposes of defending against it or something.

Also, let there be another five level PrC 'Hero', which has significant prerequsites and can be used to finish off the last five levels pre-epic. Full BAB, all good saves, gear upgrades, class ability upgrades, etc... might even want to make it general enough to apply to any of the three races.

Tor the Fallen
2007-02-17, 09:46 PM
I'd second the Ghost as a seperate class.

The Starship Troopers d20 does it like this:
Base class is Mobile Infantry, which goes for ten levels. You may multiclass out of it (typically around level 5, when you get to turn two cross-class skills into class skills) to any of 5 or so different PrC which last for three levels: The Officer Cadet (a bard equivalent), the Neo-Dog Handler (Druid equivalent, though closer to a diviner in function), the Sniper, the Engineer (demoltions and fixing machines), Medic, Marauder Driver (Imagine a Goliath with more guns and rockets that can shoot stuff on the ground), and the Veteran.

The Veteran was a little different, in that it went for 10 levels, and you could only take it after you took 9 levels Mobile Infantry without multiclassing.

Mobile Infantry was essentially a fighter equivalent.

After those three levels were up, the PrC was done, and you could go into another PrC that you met the prereqs for, or go back into mobile infantry.

Every class had a full BAB, to represent that they were there to kick ass first, and do other stuff later.


However, I don't think this is the way to do a SC RPG, as the Terran Infantry seems to be more divided than the Mobile Infantry.

For instance, Ghosts are trained from childhood to use psionic powers, while marines are typically criminal cannon fodder. Ghosts would be in a completely different military branch than firebats or marines, and would go through different training. I think class structure should reflect that.

Medics and firebats, using different types of power armor than marines, would also go through different training. Medics especially.

Icewalker
2007-02-17, 10:00 PM
I agree. Ghosts should not be a PrC, they should be an entirely seperate kind of unit. People don't decide to become ghosts, they either are or they aren't from the beginning of their training.

Neek
2007-02-18, 01:32 AM
Soldier and Ghost, actually. Pilot can take the same 'grunt' package, and just apply it to whatever they are piloting. Put pilot (wraith), Pilot (Valkerie), Pilot (Siege Tank) and Pilot (Goliath) as class skills, and the pilots choose which one they want. They still get the same gear upgrades everyone else does, after all.

If we're doing the Gear levels, then this works out. There should be additional classes, though. Not all Soldiers are tough and strong and brutish, some are agile--this isn't reflected in the game, but it should be; I'll include Grunt and Gunner to offset both high-damage and high-accuracy; their abilities'll remain the same, but their saves and BABs'll differ. We should also include something like a Techie, and NPC classes (commoner, &c.) PrC classes should be things like Officer, and Advanced Soldier, &c. As a table-top PC, we can expand the character abilities out.


I think Ghost would be a PrC, with a prerequisite of having power points (so say Wild Talent feat would be needed). Other than that, probably low prerequisites... the ghost training is rather different from everything else, and quite extensive in itself. Let the entrance be around 5th level, maybe even 3rd.

I prefer this; while I know that Ghosts were trained from birth to do their job, it makes little sense to give them so much up front (the units weren't immediately available either). The actual role of Ghosts in the game were highly specialized--I'd prefer to have a psionic marine core class, with a ghost prestige class.

Now! Time for Soldier, and the first Gear package (Marine).

Marine (Grunt)

Abilities: Grunts make use of Constitution most so that they can sustain the environments and combat. Dexterity is key for weapon-use, and Strength is equally important. Intelligence also helps for getting necessary skills, such as Pilot.
Hit Die: d10, 1st level characters gain 10 hp + Constitution bonus.

The grunt's class skills (and the key abilities for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Drive (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Martial lore) (Int), Pilot (Dex), Profession (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill points at 1st level: (2 + Int Modifier) x 4.
Skills at each addition level: 2 + Int modifier.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Gear proficiency, Gear I, bonus feat

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+0|Bonus feat

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|Bonus feat

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1|Gear II

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+2|Bonus feat

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+2|Bonus feat

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+3|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+3|Gear III, bonus feat

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+3|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+4|Bonus feat

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+4|

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+4|Bonus feat

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+5|Gear IV

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+5|Bonus feat

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+5|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+6|Bonus feat

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+6|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+6|Gear V, bonus feat[/table]

Class features:
Weapons and Armor proficiency: Grunts are proficient with all Simple and Martial weapons and all armor. Note that armor check penalties for armor heavier than leather apply to the skills: Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, and Slight of Hand, and Tumble. Also, Swim check suffer a -1 penalty for every 2 pounds of armor and equipment carried.

Gear proficiency: At 1st level, the grunt can choose one type of gear. The grunt receives Gear Proficiency for that gear and one level with that gear.

Gear level: At 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level the grunt receives an additional level in one gear that they are proficient in. At 10th level the grunt can acquire proficiency with a gear-subtype and gain its level 1 abilities, gaining an additional level at 15th and 20th level.

Bonus feats: At 1st level, the grunt gets a bonus feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level gets and the bonus feat granted to humans. The fighter gains an additional at 2nd level and every two levels thereafter. These bonus feats must be drawn from the following list, or if the feat contains the descriptor "Can be taken as a marine bonus feat."

Blind-fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#blindFight), Combat Expertise (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#combatExpertise) (Improved Disarm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedDisarm), Improved Feint (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedFeint), Improved Trip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTrip), Whirlwind Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#whirlwindAttack)), Combat Martial Arts (Improved Martial Arts), Combat Reflexes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#combatReflexes), Dodge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#dodge) (Mobility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#mobility), Spring Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#springAttack)), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#exoticWeaponProficiency)*, Gear Proficiency*, Gear Expertise*, Gear Specialization*, Improved Critical (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedCritical)*, Improved Initiative (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedInitiative), Point Blank Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#pointBlankShot) (Far Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#farShot), Precise Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#preciseShot), Burst Shot, Shot on the Run (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#shotOnTheRun), Strafe), Power Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack) (Cleave (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#cleave), Improved Bull Rush (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedBullRush), Improved Sunder (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedSunder), Great Cleave (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#greatCleave)), Quick Draw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickDraw), Quick Reload, Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#twoWeaponFighting) (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTwoWeaponFighting)), Vehicle Proficiency (Vehicular Combat, Drive-By-Attack), Weapon Finesse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFinesse)*, Weapon Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus)*, Weapon Specialization (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponSpecialization)*.

* This feat can be taken multiple times, each time it is taken, but it must be for a different weapon.
** Features unchanged have been linked to the SRD. New feats are in blue. Existing feats that have been altered are in red.

Feats

Burst Shot
Prerequisites: Wisdom 13, Martial weapons proficiency.
Benefits: When using an automatic firearm with at least 5 rounds loaded, you may fire a short burst as a single attack against a single target. You receive -4 penalty to the attack roll, but deal 2 additional dice of damage.
Normal: Autofire attacks uses 10 rounds over a 10x10 ft. area and can't be aimed at a single target. Without this feat, any burst shot at a specific target counts as a single attack with no additional damage.
Special: If the firearm has 3-round burst option, firing a burst expends 3 rounds instead of five, and can only be used if the firearm has at least 3 rounds loaded.

Combat Martial Arts
Renamed from Improved Unarmed Strike
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefits: You can make an unarmed attack as though you were weilding a weapon. When making the attack, you must declare whether you intend to deal lethal or subdual damage. The attack deals 1d4 + your strength bonus in bludgeon damage. The unarmed attack counts as being armed, so it does not provoke an attack of opportunity, and likewise, when an adjacent opponent takes provokes an attack of opportunity, you may attack.
Normal: Without this feat, you may only deal 1d3 points of subdual damage. Unarmed attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, and unarmed combatants cannot name an attack of opportunity.

Gear Expertise
Prerequisites: Gear proficiency, base attack bonus +3.
Benefits: You suffer no penalty to armor-dependent skill checks rather than a -1 penalty.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, it applies to a different type of gear.

Gear Proficiency
Benefits: You are able to don a gear and make use of it with ease. You only suffer a -1 penalty to all armor-dependent skill checks.
Normal: Without this feat, you suffer a -4 penalty to all attack rolls, and suffer a -2 penalty to all armor-dependent skill checks while wearing that particular gear. As well, you only benefit from half the gear's AC and ability bonuses. You cannot use any of the gear's special abilities without being proficient in it.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, it applies to a different type of gear.

Gear Specialization
Prerequisites: Gear Expertise, Gear Proficiency, base attack bonus +5.
Benefits: Your attack rolls, saving throws, and maximum allowable dexterity bonus is increased by 2 with that particular gear.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, it applies to a different type of gear.

Gunner
Altered from Ride-by-attack.
Prerequisites: Drive or Pilot (for air vehicles) skill, Vehicular Combat.
Benefits: You take no vehicle speed penalty when making an attack while in a moving vehicle. If you are the driver, you can make an attack action at any point along the vehicle's movement.
Normal: Attacks made from a moving vehicle suffer a penalty based on the vehicle's speed. Gunners can only ready an attack at a specific location along the vehicle's movement while it is in motion, and the driver can only make an attack either at the beginning or the end of the vehicle's movement.

Improved Martial Arts
Prerequisites: Combat Martial Arts, base attack bonus +4.
Benefits: The threat range of your unarmed attacks increases to a range of 19-20.
Normal: Unarmed attacks normally threaten a critical hit on a natural 20.

Quick reload
Altered from Rapid Reload
Prerequisites: Weapon Proficiency (particular ranged weapon)
Benefits: The time it takes to reload a weapon decreases. If the reload time is a full-round action, it is reduced to a move-action. If it is a move-action, it is reduced to a free action.
Normal: Reloading is as per the weapon's description.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, it applies to a different weapon.

Strafe
Prerequisites: Martial weapons proficiency.
Benefits: When making an autofire attack, the attack effects an area 20-feet wide and 5-feet deep.
Normal: Autofire attacks effect a 10 foot by 10 foot area.

Vehicular Combat
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +4, Drive 4 ranks (for ground vehicles) or Pilot 4 ranks (for air vehicles), Vehicle proficiency.
Benefits: Once per round when the vehicle is hit in combat, you may make a Drive or Pilot check against the attack roll. If the Drive or Pilot check is higher than the attack, the attack is considered to be dodged; effectively, the result of the roll replaces your AC.

Vehicle Proficiency
Prerequisites: Drive 4 ranks (for ground vehicles) or Pilot 4 ranks (for air vehicles)
Benefits: Select a type of vehicle. When operating that vehicle, you take no penalties for operating vehicles of that type.
Normal: Without this feet, you suffer a -4 penalty to all Drive or Pilot checks.
Special: You may take this feat a number of times equal to your intelligence modifier (minimum 1). Each time you take it, it applies to a different type of vehicle.

Marine Gear

The Marine Gear is a full-body powersuit that provides enhanced movement, increased strength capacity, and NBC protection. The suit is also designed to inject into the wearer's veins a number of powerful stimulants. The marine has access to three stimulants that provide an edge in combat, and requires a certain level of training and adjustment before they confer any bonus to the wearer. If someone who lacks the training, or the marine uses more than they can tolerate, they suffer an untrained effect that's listed with each Stimpack.

Marine Gear I [Marine]
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, Gear Proficiency (Marine).
Benefits:
Armor Bonus: +4.
Damage Reduction: 2/U-238 (Depleted uranium) or Adamantine.
Maximum Dexterity Bonus: +4.
Armor Check Penalty: -1
Ability Increase: Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2. This bonus does not provision additional hit-points. The ability increase is beneficial for skill checks, saving throws, and carrying capacities. Strength and Constitution cannot be increased beyond 20, and Dexterity cannot be increased beyond 18.
Speed Increase: +5 ft., ignores any terrain impairment modifier greater than 1/2 movement.
Gear Storage: Stimpacks (Berserk 10, Perception 5, Speed 5, Nutrition 5). Total carrying capacity: 5 cubic feet storage.
Battery Supply: The Marine gear uses a portable, nuclear generator. A single power cell provides power to the gear for up to 1 year before it needs to be exchanged. If power cell is destroyed or depleted, the armor confers no bonuses.
Abilities:
Environment Protection: The wearer is immune to the effects of 0-g, no or inhospitable atmosphere, and provides a resistance of up to 10 against radiation.
Stimpack As a move-action, the marine may activate any number of powerful stimulants that are stored in the gear. All effects provide a bonus or special abilities, but after effect wears off there is a comedown. If the Stimpack is used untrained or beyond the number of times per day listed per gear level, the marine must make a Fortitude Save (30) or suffer those effects listed.
Stimpack (Berserk) (Ex): Once per day, the marine can safely activate the suit's Stimpack. When activated, the wearer gains phenomenal power, speed, and durability. The marine gains +4 to Dexterity and +4 to Constitution, and also a +2 morale bonus to Will saves. The marine immediately loses 25% of her hit points. This increase ignores the suits maximum ability increase. The increase to constitution provides the marine with +2 hp/level, however when the Stimpack wears off, the increased hit points are deducted from the total remaining, and can drop a marine to less than 0 hp. The marine gains +10ft to his base move. The stimpack remains in the marine's system for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the marine's newly modified constitution score. When the effect wears off, the marine is fatigued and suffers a -2 to Strength and Dexterity, and the wearer cannot run. This effect lasts until the Marine is able to rest for at least 2 hours.
Untrained injection: If a Stimpack (Rage) is used by someone who lacks Marine Gear I, or for an instance greater than the Marine's allotted uses, he suffers a temporary loss of 1d4+1 constitution points and is thrown into a frenzy for 1d6 rounds; when the effect wears off, the user becomes fatigued, requiring 8 hours rest.
Stimpack (Nutrition) (Ex): Once per day, the marine can safely activate a Stimpack that provides all the nutrients she will need to get by for the next day. There are no comedowns for Nutrition except for being really, really hungry.
Untrained injection: If an untrained person attempts to use Stimpack (Nutrition), they become violently nauseas and dry-heave for up to 1d4 minutes.
Stimpack (Perception) (Ex) The marine can safely activate a Stimpack a number of times equal to half her level per day. When activated, the marine gains low-light vision 30' and +2 to all Spot, Search, and Listen checks. This effect lasts for a number of minutes equal to 1d4 + the marine's wisdom modifier. When the effect wears off, the marine suffers a -2 to all spot and search checks for 1d10 minutes.
Untrained injection: If a Stimpack (Perception) is used by someone who lacks Marine Gear I, he suffers a a temporary loss of 1d4+1 wisdom points and suffers a sensitivity to light. Normal light causes a -1 to attack rolls, AC, and reflex saves. Sunlight causes blinding. This effect lasts for 2d4 minutes.

Marine Gear II [Marine]
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +5, Marine Gear I
Benefits:
Armor Bonus: +6.
Damage Reduction: 5/U-238 (Depleted uranium) or Adamantine.
Maximum Dexterity Bonus: +6.
Armor Check Penalty -2.
Ability Increase: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4. This bonus does not provision additional hit-points. The ability increase is beneficial for skill checks, saving throws, and carrying capacities. Strength and Constitution cannot be increased beyond 22, and Dexterity cannot be increased beyond 20.
Speed Increase: +10 ft., ignores any terrain impairment modifier greater than 3/4 movement.
Gear Storage: Stimpacks (Berserk 10, Perception 5, Speed 5, Nutrition 5.) Total carrying capacity: 5 cubic feet storage.
Battery Supply: The Marine gear uses a portable, nuclear generator. A single power cell provides power to the gear for up to 1 year before it needs to be exchanged. If power cell is destroyed or depleted, the armor confers no bonuses.
Abilities:
Stimpack (Berserk) (Ex): As per Marine Gear I, this effect is increased to 2/day and comedown is reduced to 1 hour.
Stimpack (Perception) (Ex): As per Marine Gear I, but the marine's low-light vision range doubles.
Stimpack (Speed) (Ex): A number of times equal three plus the marine's dexterity modifier, the marine can safely activate a Stimpack that provides a boost to the marine's speed. The marine gains an additional Standard action per round. The marine receives an additional +1 bonus to attack rolls, AC, and Ref saves. When this effect wears off after a number of rounds equal to the marine's level, the marine can only make 1 standard action/round and suffers a -1 penalty to attack rolls, AC, and Ref saves. The comedown lasts 2d4 minutes. This Stimpack may counter the effect of a Stimpack (Rage) or Stimpack (Speed) come-down.
Untrained injection: If a Stimpack (Speed) is used by someone who lacks Marine Gear II, they suffer a temporary loss of 1d4+1 dexterity and is considered to be confused (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#confused).

Marine Gear III [Marine]
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +10, Marine Gear II, Marine Gear I.
Benefits:
Armor Bonus: +6.
Damage Reduction: 10/U-238 (Depleted uranium) or Adamantine.
Maximum Dexterity Bonus: +8.
Armor Check Penalty:: -2.
Ability Increase: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4. This bonus does not provision additional hit-points. The ability increase is beneficial for skill checks, saving throws, and carrying capacities. Strength and Constitution cannot be increased beyond 24, and Dexterity cannot be increased beyond 22.
Speed Increase: +15 ft., ignores any terrain impairment modifier greater than 1/2 movement.
Gear Storage: Stimpacks (Berserk 10, Perception 5, Speed 5, Nutrition 5.) Total carrying capacity: 5 cubic feet storage.
Battery Supply: The Marine gear uses a portable, nuclear generator. A single power cell provides power to the gear for up to 1 year before it needs to be exchanged. If power cell is destroyed or depleted, the armor confers no bonuses.
Abilities:
Stimpack (Berserk) (Ex): As per Marine Gear I, this effect is increased to 3/day.
Stimpack: Perception (Ex): As per Marine Gear I, but the marine gains within a 30' radius Darkvision as a supernatural ability, beyond that the marine still retains an additional 30' low-light vision as an extraordinary ability. If Darkvision is ever denied (i.e., anti-magic field), the marine retains 60' low-light vision. The comedown is reduced to a number of rounds equal to the marine's level.
Stimpack (Speed) (Ex): While under the effect of Stimpack (Speed), the marine cannot be denied his AC where she normally would be denied that (i.e., being caught flat-footed). This stacks with the other effects of the Stimpack.

Marine Gear IV [Marine]
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +15, Marine Gear III, Marine Gear II, Marine Gear I.
Benefits:
Armor Bonus: +8.
Damage Reduction: 15/U-238 (Depleted uranium) or Adamantine.
Maximum Dexterity Bonus: +8.
Armor Check Penalty: -2.
Ability Increase: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4. This bonus does not provision additional hit-points. The ability increase is beneficial for skill checks, saving throws, and carrying capacities. Strength and Constitution cannot be increased beyond 24, and Dexterity cannot be increased beyond 22.
Speed Increase: +20 ft., ignores any terrain impairment modifier greater than 1/2 movement.
Gear Storage: Stimpacks (Berserk 10, Perception 5, Speed 5, Nutrition 5). Total carrying capacity: 5 cubic feet storage.
Battery Supply: The Marine gear uses a portable, nuclear generator. A single power cell provides power to the gear for up to 1 year before it needs to be exchanged. If power cell is destroyed or depleted, the armor confers no bonuses.
Abilities:
Stimpack (Berserk) (Ex): As per Marine Gear I, this effect is increased to 4/day. The modifier to Dexterity and Constitution increase to +6, and the morale bonus to Willpower saves increases to +4.
Stimpack: Perception (Ex): As per Marine Gear I, but the marine gains 60' Darkvision as a supernatural ability, and if denied, retains 60' of low-light vision as an extraordinary ability.
Stimpack (Speed) (Ex) While under the effect of Stimpack (Speed), the marine cannot be flanked. This stacks with the other effects of the Stimpack.

Marine Gear V [Marine]
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +20, Marine Gear IV, Marine Gear III, Marine Gear II, Marine Gear I.
Benefits:
Armor Bonus: +8.
Damage Reduction: 20/U-238 (Depleted uranium) or Adamantine.
Maximum Dexterity Bonus: +8.
Armor Check Penalty -2.
Ability Increase: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4. This bonus does not provision additional hit-points. The ability increase is beneficial for skill checks, saving throws, and carrying capacities. Strength and Constitution cannot be increased beyond 24, and Dexterity cannot be increased beyond 22.
Speed Increase: +30 ft., ignores any terrain impairment modifier greater than 1/2 movement.
Gear Storage: Stimpacks (Berserk 10, Perception 5, Speed 5, Nutrition 5). Total carrying capacity: 5 cubic feet storage.
Battery Supply: The Marine gear uses a portable, nuclear generator. A single power cell provides power to the gear for up to 1 year before it needs to be exchanged. If power cell is destroyed or depleted, the armor confers no bonuses.
Abilities:
Stimpack (Berserk) (Ex): As per Marine Gear IV, this effect is increased to 5/day.
Stimpack: Perception (Ex): As per Marine Gear IV, but Darkvision is considered to be an extraordinary ability.

[hr]

I might have to retool this for balance, however I'm pleased with the overall set up. I reasoned that Stimpacks needed to be limited somehow, and I couldn't justify just saying that "as you get a higher level, you can get more stuff added-on." So I put in the clause about abusing or using the Stimpack untrained.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-18, 01:44 AM
I like the idea, but a few suggestions:

Stim Pack use should suffer a loss of hit points, or even Con Burn. In the game, it actually did almost a quarter of the max hp of the unit to activate it. I feel this should be present in some form or another. This hit every marine unit, so it was not just an untrained penalty.

Neek
2007-02-18, 01:55 AM
You're right. Stimpack (Rage) only causes you to lose HP from those you gained. I'm not sure how I should formulate the HP loss, though.

SmileyX
2007-02-18, 03:24 AM
Maybe don't make the stim pack lose a set value, have them make a fortitude save, than depending on the degree that they fail at, they lose x amount of hp or even in more extreme cases CON. I think a success would be rare, and most likely the result of a natural 20. I'd like to point out that if someone still has the original booklet from the non-batlechest game, i think it has really nice explanation sof the units and they're gear, unfortunately i lost mine. Also, most of the Terran weapons are designed to hurt the Zerg, the marines guns shot needle spike things, and the firebats had flamethrowers simply because all Zerg are flesh creatures and would take more damage from it. I think the same thing applys to Ghosts and the machine guns on a Goliath. I think that the best thign for a ghost would essentially be to make them they're own base class, and i'd like to rmeind everybody that Ghosts are not wimps when it comes to psionic powers, every one of them is having they're powers suppressed by they're armor. So maybe as they level, more and more limits are removed form they're suits, allowing them to cause more havoc. The Ghost is essentially as close as your going to get to the terran caster,m although they combine that with being a specialist. The medic seems to be a prestige class to me, its not quite the most core unit, and also i think they should be commisioned a hand gun. As a last thought before i go to bed, a good prestige class would be the elite pilot, have them choose 1, or a number of vehciules that they specialise in, and let them get manouveres or just isnane bonuses with them. Thanks for listening to my insane ramblings =D.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-18, 04:39 AM
You're right. Stimpack (Rage) only causes you to lose HP from those you gained. I'm not sure how I should formulate the HP loss, though.

Hmm... make it do a flat quarter of your max hit points (before augmenting Con for more hps)? Remember, if you've got medics around, they're likely to be able to heal it up, and it has to be a significant downside for the benifits it gains. In the game, it increased their rate of fire, maybe make it a haste effect which lasts 3+Con Mod rounds? And really, why stat boosts? Strength is pointless, you're not using melee weapons. Dex has some use in adding to-hit and possibly ac bonuses, therefore much more valuable, but really, how much are you able to dodge around in power armor? I don't see the marine or firebat gear allowing any dex mods to AC.

I'm seeing Stim Packs as far less powerful than you are, I guess. It's a tradeoff for a lot of hitpoints in exchange for Haste, and not something scalable.

If you want to scale something, give them bonuses on to hit, damage, rate of fire, range upgrades... stuff the gear can deliver. Also can improve AC, DR, and stuff from the armor along the way. This seems to me to be a much more logical progression.

FYI: Those of you who mention the loads the marines shoot... it's called a 'rail gun'. It fires electromagnetically propelled spikes out of the gun at vastly supersonic speeds. The end result is a bullet moving faster than any modern-day munitions, also heavier than the payload of any standard small-arm munitions (it's about the weight and mass of a shotgun slug), therefore having more damage output and penetration power than your modern day AK-47 or M-16 A1. However, before we arbitrarily assign damage numbers based on that, we have to take game balance into account. Sure, if something like an AK-47 does 2d6, then it should easily do 3d8, but that would way overpower them compared to the other units, easily one-shotting the zergling that I put forth already. Besides, it's all fluff anyways. The 'crunch' is more of what we're interested in to actually stat them. Sifting the fluff from the crunch is, and quantifying the crunch, is the difficulty in statting things like these.

Tor the Fallen
2007-02-18, 04:53 AM
Are we having guns do xdy + dex mod damage?

Tola
2007-02-18, 05:34 AM
I'd like to point out that if someone still has the original booklet from the non-batlechest game, i think it has really nice explanation sof the units and they're gear, unfortunately i lost mine

If you have the Bestseller version, check the disc-the full manual is there as a PDF. I could even send it out if you'd like. All the Bestsellers and indeed most budget titles in general are like that, with the manual on-disc.

Neek
2007-02-18, 03:20 PM
Edited class post, changes are in blue. I forgot to include what sort of action activating a Stimpack is. And how many Stimpacks per gear. Storage capacity has also been added, but everything's still under review.


Hmm... make it do a flat quarter of your max hit points (before augmenting Con for more hps)? Remember, if you've got medics around, they're likely to be able to heal it up, and it has to be a significant downside for the benifits it gains. In the game, it increased their rate of fire, maybe make it a haste effect which lasts 3+Con Mod rounds? And really, why stat boosts? Strength is pointless, you're not using melee weapons. Dex has some use in adding to-hit and possibly ac bonuses, therefore much more valuable, but really, how much are you able to dodge around in power armor? I don't see the marine or firebat gear allowing any dex mods to AC.

As a tabletop RPG, you're going to be facing a wider variety of combat types; melee is going to happen at some point, but that's not what these men're trained for. With that in mind, I did retooled Rage. I renamed it Berserk, and it provides a +4 to Dexterity and Constitution (which effectively provides 2 hp/level, and +2 to attack and +2 to AC). Rather than a battle-rage and suffering a penalty to making skill checks, you only suffer a 25% HP loss before the Con bonus.

Your proficiency with the power-armor (or Gear level) justifies how flexible you are in that gear. That's why it provides a tiered max AC mod. On review, though, I think a 20th level Grunt might be broken with a 20 DR and with Stimpack (Berserk) and Stimpack (Speed), an overall AC bonus of at least +11. I'll have to see what a CR 20 Zerg looks like before I can make that call.


I'm seeing Stim Packs as far less powerful than you are, I guess. It's a tradeoff for a lot of hitpoints in exchange for Haste, and not something scalable.

I'm seeing Stimpacks as allowing a flexible way to customize the gear and character without giving any special powers. It's an interesting tooling. Mind you, there're no indications of how many Stimpacks you can use at once. At the beginning of combat, I could feasibly activate Berserk, Haste, and Perception.


If you want to scale something, give them bonuses on to hit, damage, rate of fire, range upgrades... stuff the gear can deliver. Also can improve AC, DR, and stuff from the armor along the way. This seems to me to be a much more logical progression.

These are sort of given; the gear provides a built-in stat bonus. Consider Gear to be a template-overlay without me saying it is. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution are all increased by wearing the gear and this does go up. A 1st level character wearing a gear and going into Berserk can expect +4 bonus to attack, not including whatever their base Dex modifier is.


FYI: Those of you who mention the loads the marines shoot... it's called a 'rail gun'. It fires electromagnetically propelled spikes out of the gun at vastly supersonic speeds. The end result is a bullet moving faster than any modern-day munitions, also heavier than the payload of any standard small-arm munitions (it's about the weight and mass of a shotgun slug), therefore having more damage output and penetration power than your modern day AK-47 or M-16 A1. However, before we arbitrarily assign damage numbers based on that, we have to take game balance into account. Sure, if something like an AK-47 does 2d6, then it should easily do 3d8, but that would way overpower them compared to the other units, easily one-shotting the zergling that I put forth already. Besides, it's all fluff anyways. The 'crunch' is more of what we're interested in to actually stat them. Sifting the fluff from the crunch is, and quantifying the crunch, is the difficulty in statting things like these.

The crunch should come first. See what it'd take to bring a Zergling down and work from there.