Final Fantasy Tactics Thread

[Shinzutalos]

Hello, fellow Ivalicians! Welcome to the Final Fantasy Tactics thread. This thread will contain spoilers so keep that in mind.

My favorite jobs: Thief & Lancer

I have beaten the base game 3 times and I am currently playing through the Final Fantasy Tactics 1.3 mod (hard mode).

[OrcusMcP]

I have become a convert to the ways of Wizards learning Draw Out. I don't care that it's broken. It kills EVERYTHING, and it's glorious.

I haven't tried the 1.3 mod, but I like the WotL re-make better than the original.

[DigoDragon]

FFT Samurai's Blade Grasp is pretty broken too if you got a high brave score. Makes your unit practically untouchable by physical attacks. Pair it with a low faith and go to town. :smallbiggrin:
My fav physical unit would be the above on a monk with the dragoon's jump ability as a secondary.


Magic-wise I had a thing for making a summoner with short charge. Cant go wrong with that. ;)

[Shinzutalos]

FFT Samurai's Blade Grasp is pretty broken too if you got a high brave score. Makes your unit practically untouchable by physical attacks. Pair it with a low faith and go to town. :smallbiggrin:
My fav physical unit would be the above on a monk with the dragoon's jump ability as a secondary.


Magic-wise I had a thing for making a summoner with short charge. Cant go wrong with that. ;)

I had a Summoner with Half MP that had the cast times of someone who has short charge... that was a fun playthrough.

[Tono]

Blade grasp could be subverted by a unit with two swords though. I much prefer reflex with a mantle and/or shield to just evade the attack and Magic depending on b the version and gear.

My favorite character though is an Oracle/mystic. Pump up matk and equip that pole. Does more then a spear with normal attacks. And I like that sprite.

[danzibr]

Been a while since I played FFT. As such, in going to replay it soon. I intend to get it in my iPad. Any suggestions? Should I go with it on PC for mods instead?

[Seerow]

I love FFT. I got obsessed with it about 10 years ago, spending a ton of time on the FFT GameFAQs boards, even taking part in the PBP FFT tournaments and in game challenges that were super popular over there for a while. Lot of fun, though I've forgotten probably 3/4ths of what I knew.


One ability I really like and feel is generally under-appreciated is the Geomancer's Elemental ability. Great range, always hits, unaffected by Faith. Has an AoE effect and a chance of status infliction. Its damage formula kind of sucks (requiring both PA and MA being balanced for optimal use), but a well made/equipped Geomancer can easily hit for 300 damage per elemental. That is nothing to sneeze at, even if it doesn't compare with Draw Out or double attacking in raw damage. Ramza is best at it because he has male PA and female MA, and his Ubersquire class is above average in both areas.

I think if I pick it up again I'm going to go for a Geomancer SCC.



Edit: Actually I just had a fun idea. Is there any interest in a Let's Play of Final Fantasy Tactics, being played as an SCC with the twist that which class the entire party is gets voted on for each story battle?

[danzibr]

Ramza is best at it because he has male PA and female MA, and his Ubersquire class is above average in both areas.
Huh. Never knew. Actually, I'm a total noob at FFT.

Edit: Actually I just had a fun idea. Is there any interest in a Let's Play of Final Fantasy Tactics, being played as an SCC with the twist that which class the entire party is gets voted on for each story battle?
There's interest here :)

[One Tin Soldier]

I'm pretty fond of having a Monk with Dual Wielding. I once one-shotted a boss monster with that. Good times.

It was in that game, in fact, that I found my favorite way to play the game. It works like this: have a group of friends, ideally the same number as there is in a full party. Give each friend one of the generic hirable soldiers. Each person controls that character, and only that character. (Someone will have the protagonist.) Then just play through the whole game as a co-op RPG.

Bonus points for voice acting all of the dialogue.

[Gnoman]

Should I go with it on PC for mods instead?

There's no such thing as a PC version. The mods involve patching the game disc by *method* and playing it by *othermethod*.




More on topic, my favorite generic character setup involved a Wizard using Two Swords to dual-wield a Wizard Rod and a Rod of Faith. Eventually, I gave her Math Skill, which allowed her to one-shot the entire map at the start of every battle, but even before that, level 2 spells were destroying everything.

[DigoDragon]

Blade grasp could be subverted by a unit with two swords though.

This is true, but getting into a battle against a dual-wielder is very rare in my experience and they can be quickly taken out with the long-ranged dragoon jump ability I equip.

Putting on mantles that prevent the Stop effect and then have the Calculator spam Stop can work too. XD
Bring a thief along to acquire all that delicious loot.



It was in that game, in fact, that I found my favorite way to play the game. It works like this: have a group of friends, ideally the same number as there is in a full party. Give each friend one of the generic hirable soldiers. Each person controls that character, and only that character. (Someone will have the protagonist.) Then just play through the whole game as a co-op RPG.

Bonus points for voice acting all of the dialogue.

That sounds like a lot of fun. :3 I only had one local friend who was into FFT, but our schedules are pretty skewed so we couldn't get together often for something like that.

[Seerow]

Putting on mantles that prevent the Stop effect and then have the Calculator spam Stop can work too. XD
Bring a thief along to acquire all that delicious loot.

If you're going that far, why not just equip a bunch of Chameleon Robes and spam CT5 Holy?


Honestly bringing calculators into the game just makes things boring and easy :(

[Triaxx]

I love Geomancer. I always bring one along for the first Dorter battle. Just have to make sure you've got the right abilities. I find they tend to apply their special effects more readily than most classes. Except steal heart thieves. I always liked a Female GeoMonk. The PA boost evened out the MA boost from being female. And once the PA overpowered the MA enough, the monk powers were strong enough to not need the Geo-support.

[Tylorious]

I've beaten the game twice, once with an obscene amount of grinding half way through the game, and another time where I only leveled outside of the story when I had too.

I must say the dragoon is my favorite. I have loved dragoon's since FF2. I just can't get away from them.

[DigoDragon]

If you're going that far, why not just equip a bunch of Chameleon Robes and spam CT5 Holy?

Cause you can't loot dead people? :smallsmile:
The reason I have Calcs and Thieves is to acquire stuff. Because I love stuff and the two classes work well together toward that end.


On a different note, I seem to find that guns/crossbows are strangely accurate if I aim for squares behind the target I want to hit. Also helps get around that pesky 'minimum range' issue with those weapons. ;)

[SiuiS]

FFT Samurai's Blade Grasp is pretty broken too if you got a high brave score. Makes your unit practically untouchable by physical attacks. Pair it with a low faith and go to town. :smallbiggrin:
My fav physical unit would be the above on a monk with the dragoon's jump ability as a secondary.


Magic-wise I had a thing for making a summoner with short charge. Cant go wrong with that. ;)

Hamedu on the monk is better. Instead of just blocking the attack you whomp the sucker in the face with a pre-emptive. They miss you, and you get a free shot. Win/win!

I can't play anymore though. After so many hundreds of hours I just, one day, stopped mid battle, set down the controller, and never played again.

[Seerow]

Hamedu on the monk is better. Instead of just blocking the attack you whomp the sucker in the face with a pre-emptive. They miss you, and you get a free shot. Win/win!

But Blade Grasp works against more things. Most notably, ranged attacks. Hamedo requires the attack to come from a source you can hit with your melee attack. (Though a gun wielder with hamedo hamedoing arrows/guns is pretty hilarious)

[SiuiS]

I did not know that, actually! Neat.

I think I ended up with an archer, summoner, ninja, samura and lancer as my team. There was always another way to deal with being hit at range, usually just closing range and screwing up the bad guys.

The real fun was mimes, though; I liked setting up the mime and then having everyone else just "attack > forward" and let the mime do the hard work XD
Killed myself by miming the lancer once though <_<

[DigoDragon]

I can't play anymore though. After so many hundreds of hours I just, one day, stopped mid battle, set down the controller, and never played again.

That happened to me as well. It was when I realized I simply couldn't be killed unless I turned on myself. XD

Speaking of turning on yourself, there was a fun little trick I used~ Since random battles scale up with your level, I would have a thief early on be my designated 'Exp Stealer' and rob my other characters (Especially Ramza) of Exp so that the team can build up a lot of JP without leveling up too fast. That one thief does level high, but by mid-game levels stop being an issue and I retire that character.



(Though a gun wielder with hamedo hamedoing arrows/guns is pretty hilarious)

Han shot first! :smalltongue:



The real fun was mimes, though;

Oh yes. Once you figure out how to work the mime, it is the greatest class ever! :smallbiggrin:
I once got a controller thrown at me because I was working the mime so well in my game.

[Larkas]

Ah, a thread about my absolute favorite game for a long time! I spent years playing this game at least moderately after it first came out. When I was starting to put it aside, SQEX came around and released WotL. Those bastards! :smallbiggrin:

I must say, my favorite generic class, at least for Ramza, is Dark Knight, hands down. I mean, he is surrounded by people who know all those cool blade skills and couldn't pick anything up in the original! Besides, Dark Knight just makes sense for him as a character. In my games he is usually running with Ubersquire / Dark Knight: the lessened PA is worth it for the increased movement! I'd also equip Move +3, and sometimes even boots that boosts movement further. You could hit pretty much anyone in most maps with that combination!

Aside from that, it's hard picking a favorite class. Save for a couple that add absolutely nothing to the game in terms of active skills (Archer, I'm looking at you), every single one of them has something useful to contribute. If nothing else, the class I used the most, if only by necessity, was the Monk. Back in the original, I had a hard time taking down the goat guy (Velus? Belias? I think those were the names). I went back, farmed a little JP for Monk and tried again. Boy, was I surprised! The class is a powerhouse! And not only can it hit hard, it also has spot healing and revive! It's only problem is dealing with heights, so you have to be very careful in non-flat maps (like that dam one) so a character won't die in a square not touched by another square of the same height. It's not that hard, really.

I'm always a little sad about this game, though. It has such an interesting character evolution system, such an involving story and... It pretty much stands alone. No real sequels to speak of. It could easily turn into a franchise by itself, not unlike Fire Emblem, with incremental system improvements. It wouldn't even have to continue the same story, just keep the same tone. Alas, it is not to be, it seems... (And I'm purposefully ignoring the Advance series. The first is a joke, and the second isn't bad, but doesn't hold a candle to the original.) I even thought about adapting it to tabletop use, but homebrewing something of that magnitude is way beyond me.

Anyways, a parting advice: if you're playing WotL, you HAVE to try the hack that eliminates the overall slowdown caused by ability effects. It makes the game MUCH more enjoyable!

[Triaxx]

I disagree with your disparagement of the Archer. Charge is a fantastic ability, particularly if used with say a Knight, or monk. True, you're not going to use the highest charge abilities, and those only exist for the purpose of mastering the class. Even a charge of five which is the highest you'll probably be able to hit with, is quite a boost. Never mind when it's being applied to something like a Knight Sword.

Curiously, Knights and Archers have skills that compliment each other much better than themselves. IE an Archer with break skill is much better than a Knight is with it, and vice versa. Insert Arrow in the Knee joke here. For that matter, a Ninja is better with a bow than an archer is.

Incidentally, if you're looking for game info, I suggest Aerostars awesome Battle Mechanics Guide on GameFAQs. I don't know how up to date it is for the remake, but it's fantastic for the original.

[DigoDragon]

Charge is a fantastic ability, particularly if used with say a Knight, or monk.

Egads yes! One wicked combo is to pair a charge-knight with someone who has time magic on 'short-charge'. If you can immobilize the enemy unit, then you can use the higher charge ability and cleave that target in half. :smallbiggrin:

[Larkas]

Huh. I guess I never bothered pairing Charge and Short Charge on a Knight. Makes a hell of a lot of sense, though! :smalleek: Eh, I blame it on my overleveling antics, all I could ever fit before an enemy moved was Charge +2, +3 at most. I guess with Short Charge that could easily double!

I'm thinking of starting a new gameplay, probably with some difficulty mod applied. I specially liked the "Exp Thief" exploit to keep my levels down! I'll try that out!

[Seerow]

Honestly, Charge isn't that good. Even with Short Charge. Other secondary ability sets give something in the way of new options or versatility. Charge would be fine as a single ability, but as an entire ability set it falls way short of the mark. Characters relying on weapon based attacks already deal plenty of damage to nullify enemies, Charge will very rarely make the difference in landing a kill or not. And if you try to cut it too close (ie aim for more than a clocktick or two out), you run the risk of an enemy casting Haste or Quick or something to let your target act first and move out of the way (admittedly not usually an issue when playing against the AI).

[Gnoman]

Charge is absolutely useless. Either you gain so little damage by charging that you would have been better off with a different skill, or it takes so long to execute that you could easily kill the target well before it hits. It doesn't even allow you to JP scroll (Original version only). I suppose there's some niche uses involving guns/crossbows to cut off paths, but I can't recall any situaions where that would be useful.

[Triaxx]

Charge also benefits from two swords. Plus every bit of power you can throw behind your attacks helps. Of course, you'll want to learn to read the action list before trying to use it. And since it doesn't effect accuracy, you can use it against high evasion enemies because if you do miss, you'd have missed with a normal attack, but if you hit, you do extra damage that you might not land with other attacks.

[DigoDragon]

Charge also benefits from two swords.

That reminds me of another bit of cheese I played with for fun. Dual-wield with the Break ability. The accuracy for the knight's Breaks are real low, but if you hit with dual-wield you get double the breakage. Fun for maiming strong monsters so that your weaker characters can go JP farm on them (like Cloud, as you get him so late in the game and he's only level 1).

[Larkas]

That reminds me of another bit of cheese I played with for fun. Dual-wield with the Break ability. The accuracy for the knight's Breaks are real low, but if you hit with dual-wield you get double the breakage. Fun for maiming strong monsters so that your weaker characters can go JP farm on them (like Cloud, as you get him so late in the game and he's only level 1).

That works, but Break is so much better from a distance that I don't know if this is feasible in "real" battles. Wait. Can guns be dual-wielded?

[Seerow]

That works, but Break is so much better from a distance that I don't know if this is feasible in "real" battles. Wait. Can guns be dual-wielded?

Best use for break is dual wielding speed break. Never bothered using it from a distance. Just run up and double break someone's legs, and start running laps around them.

[nhbdy]

Hooray for nostalgia! Loved this game, and still play through it every couple of years, even did some of the difficulty mod floating around. As much as I loved the base game, it was ridiculously easy to break it, in fact any female character is easily broken by having them bring the perfume that gives auto raise, then you just focus on gear that gives immunity to statuses.

Along with this, it's pretty easy to manipulate speed with a time mage and a few odd and end abilities, by using it and keeping aware of the turn order it usually wasn't hard to outright deny enemy actions for several turns at a time. I used a time mage so often my entire party was able to buy teleport with just the "trickle down" JP... that was fun :smallbiggrin:

I think the craziest part of the monk class, which has already been pointed out as a powerhouse is due to the exponential (I think?) scaling with physical attack, meaning that if the monk gets a PA buff, it was doing much more for it than any other class, combine it with a skillset that allows for a lot of utility and differing ways to deal damage and it's an amazing goto class.

[Calemyr]

I think I ended up with an archer, summoner, ninja, samura and lancer as my team. There was always another way to deal with being hit at range, usually just closing range and screwing up the bad guys.

You know, I often end up the same way, strangely enough. I end up with a Squire/Geomancer(or Dark Knight) Ramza named Cecil, a Summoner/Black Mage named Rydia, a Ninja/Thief named Edge, a Dragoon/Knight named Kain, and an archer/white mage named Rosa. It's the strangest thing, really. I just can't explain it.

Of course War of the Lions usually ends with Cecil teaming up with Cloud, Baltheir, Luso, and a Construct 8 named Robo. Again, I just can't explain why.

[Beacon of Chaos]

I have FFT on my phone, didn't really get far into it before losing interest, but I've been meaning to try and give it another go.

I'm a big fan of FFTA and A2 though. I still fondly remember my first character, a ninja paladin. :smallbiggrin:

[TillySparks]

I'm currently playing through the game for the first time. Can someone explain what the 1.3 mod is?

[Larkas]

I'm currently playing through the game for the first time. Can someone explain what the 1.3 mod is?

It fixes some perceived bugs and inconsistencies and is also a difficulty mod of sorts. It's not bad at all.

[nhbdy]

It fixes some perceived bugs and inconsistencies and is also a difficulty mod of sorts. It's not bad at all.

It does however have a reputation as being rather difficult

[TillySparks]

Mmmm I'm playing the PSP version. I'd heard that'd fixed a lot of the issues anyway?

[NecroRebel]

Mmmm I'm playing the PSP version. I'd heard that'd fixed a lot of the issues anyway?

1.3 is more intended to fix exploits, though, rather than bugs, and just generally rebalance the game. For instance, it completely removes the Calculator class (except for one optional boss that you can't recruit) because it's seen as overpowered. Story battles are made to scale with your level, so you can't just grind your way to victory, and enemies are more likely to have full complements of abilities including passive abilities. In fact, since enemies scale, grinding is likely to make the game nearly unwinnable due to the enemy having superior equipment. Furthermore, in many cases the enemies' classes are changed to make them more difficult, such as in third battle of chapter 2 the enemy knights are all replaced by lancers.

It's very nearly a completely different game with similar mechanics and an identical story. I've not tried the PSP version, but I can't imagine it being anything like 1.3 is.

[Gnoman]

Disclaimer: I haven't played 1.3 in a long time, and don't even know if I have the latest version.


To compare, by far the most difficult battle in the early game is the first Dorter Trade City battle, which is oddly one of the only story fights in the game that level scale. 1.3 makes that battle roughly twice as difficult (due to a combination of giving the two unarmed archers from vanilla bows and the reworked version of Black Magic), and it is one of the easier fights. When starting a game, it takes me between 5 and 20 tries to get through the game's first battle (the intro fight at the monastary, which is almost impossible to lose in vanilla.)

The meat of the mod, however, is the greatly reworked skill system. For example, instead of Bolt 1 2 3 4/Fire 1 2 3 4/Ice 1 2 3 4 and a few others, Black Magic now contains no two spells that are alike, using some of the less common targeting templates. Pretty much every class list is reworked to some degree or other, the most common being replacing stat changes with the appropriate status effect (to prevent permanent changes).


The only thing I really dislike about it is that he removed the elemental weaknesses from monsters, which eliminates some of the metagame.

[danzibr]

1.3 is more intended to fix exploits, though, rather than bugs, and just generally rebalance the game. For instance, it completely removes the Calculator class (except for one optional boss that you can't recruit) because it's seen as overpowered. Story battles are made to scale with your level, so you can't just grind your way to victory, and enemies are more likely to have full complements of abilities including passive abilities. In fact, since enemies scale, grinding is likely to make the game nearly unwinnable due to the enemy having superior equipment. Furthermore, in many cases the enemies' classes are changed to make them more difficult, such as in third battle of chapter 2 the enemy knights are all replaced by lancers.

It's very nearly a completely different game with similar mechanics and an identical story. I've not tried the PSP version, but I can't imagine it being anything like 1.3 is.
That would be a nice feature.

If only they had a 1.3 but not way harder...

[Larkas]

That would be a nice feature.

If only they had a 1.3 but not way harder...

There's a variant with just that, IIRC. But eh, I don't mind it being way harder, the original game, save for a few key battles, is way too easy.

[Gnoman]

That "nice feature" is the main reason why 1.3 is so hard. In fact, the primary difference between Insane Difficulty 1.3 and 1.3 Content (AKA EasyMode) is that the latter doesn't scale (their gear is also less good, but that is a function of scaling.)

[danzibr]

My first playthrough, Ramza was a Monk/Ninja. Dual-wielding his fists with +3 movement. I grinded a lot of random battles, and got to some story battle where the boss starts out talking to the party, then for his first move is supposed to retreat behind his subordinates. Ramza, being fast, went first, and with the extra movement, walked up to the guy, and with his mad offense, killed him in one hit. Disappointing.

[Ogremindes]

I have FFT on my phone, didn't really get far into it before losing interest, but I've been meaning to try and give it another go.

I'm a big fan of FFTA and A2 though. I still fondly remember my first character, a ninja paladin. :smallbiggrin:

I really liked FFTA, it's one of the few games I 100%'d, even after having to restart 'cause of the freakin' White Thread. A2 didn't resonate with me anywhere near as much, I think mainly because the new races and classes seemed poorly thought out. The trickster class in particular rubbed me the wrong way.

[DigoDragon]

Best use for break is dual wielding speed break. Never bothered using it from a distance. Just run up and double break someone's legs, and start running laps around them.

Bonus points if you have a bard singing the speed song. :smallbiggrin:
At that point the enemy practically stops receiving turns.



You know, I often end up the same way, strangely enough. I end up with a Squire/Geomancer(or Dark Knight) Ramza named Cecil, a Summoner/Black Mage named Rydia, a Ninja/Thief named Edge, a Dragoon/Knight named Kain, and an archer/white mage named Rosa. It's the strangest thing, really. I just can't explain it.

Of course War of the Lions usually ends with Cecil teaming up with Cloud, Baltheir, Luso, and a Construct 8 named Robo. Again, I just can't explain why.

I LOL'd. That's pretty awesome.

[Seerow]

I really liked FFTA, it's one of the few games I 100%'d, even after having to restart 'cause of the freakin' White Thread. A2 didn't resonate with me anywhere near as much, I think mainly because the new races and classes seemed poorly thought out. The trickster class in particular rubbed me the wrong way.

My experience is most people who liked FFTA played that as their first tactics game.

Most people who played FFT first, and then went to FFTA looking for the same style of game got disgusted and quit early, and tend to hold a grudge against it if they even choose to acknowledge its existence.

[ArlEammon]

My favorite Faith score is 65. High enough to be very dangerous to enemies, low enough to not get creamed too fast by magic.

[Calemyr]

My experience is most people who liked FFTA played that as their first tactics game.

Most people who played FFT first, and then went to FFTA looking for the same style of game got disgusted and quit early, and tend to hold a grudge against it if they even choose to acknowledge its existence.

I played (and enjoyed) FFT and Tactics Ogre long before playing FFTA, but I have to say I liked it. And that was largely for one reason: Marche is, for all intents and purposes, the bad guy. He gets pulled away from his life against his will and he spends the entire game pulling at the threads of the world in order to get back without any regard for the damage he'll do to this world or the fact that all of his friends are happier here than they were back home. And when the heroes come to save the world, he dismantles them one by one and destroys his own friends to the point that they have nothing left but to go home with him. Once I realized that, I just had to appreciate the game.

[SiuiS]

Honestly, Charge isn't that good. Even with Short Charge. Other secondary ability sets give something in the way of new options or versatility. Charge would be fine as a single ability, but as an entire ability set it falls way short of the mark. Characters relying on weapon based attacks already deal plenty of damage to nullify enemies, Charge will very rarely make the difference in landing a kill or not. And if you try to cut it too close (ie aim for more than a clocktick or two out), you run the risk of an enemy casting Haste or Quick or something to let your target act first and move out of the way (admittedly not usually an issue when playing against the AI).

Charge had it's uses, but really any plan in general requiring what we would think of as tactics just ends up being inefficient compared to "storm in and murder all the things".

My favorite instance of timing shift though, I had Ramza training as a monk and I had that move that boosts your stats across the board. I either had no one else or decided to try and train up new mooks who all died, because it was just Ramza at the waterfall stage against twelve Mind Flares.

The entire match was me running away boosting my stats, especially speed, until I got three or four rounds to their one - Like, I went between each monster. I lured them onto the bridge and just started throwing down earth slash until they expired.


I have FFT on my phone, didn't really get far into it before losing interest, but I've been meaning to try and give it another go.

I'm a big fan of FFTA and A2 though. I still fondly remember my first character, a ninja paladin. :smallbiggrin:

Advance wasn't bad, but it didn't have the same draw. Tactics was very much a game you could screw up in battle as opposed to on missions or on the map. Advance was... Easier in that regard, but harder to milk once you got to milking. I forgot you did that though! I always wondered if you got that better phone working, I recall the speed being sub par for you.


Bonus points if you have a bard singing the speed song. :smallbiggrin:
At that point the enemy practically stops receiving turns.
.

Just bard? You haven't lived until your lone champion sallies forth, backed by two bards backed by two backup dancers.


My experience is most people who liked FFTA played that as their first tactics game.

Most people who played FFT first, and then went to FFTA looking for the same style of game got disgusted and quit early, and tend to hold a grudge against it if they even choose to acknowledge its existence.

Yeah. I'm a rarity, but that's also why I like both 3e and 4e D&D. Judged on their own merits~

[Triaxx]

Two Bards and Two Dancers? Try Bard, Dancer, dual mimes. That makes calculators look like they're not even trying. Three songs and three dances for each time it comes up.

I'd forgotten how much fun the Lancer is. And it's not just the jump ability either. Ignore Height is invaluable for an archer. Especially since the first chapter doesn't have spears.

[danzibr]

Personally, my first tactics game was Shining Force.

[SiuiS]

I thinknIgnore height was my default movement skill, actually. I changed it for some maps, but relied on those shoes for the distance boost.

Except the archer. The archer got walk on water and stood in the middle of a lake dropping shots on fools. XD

I never once got my mime to successfully mimic a dance or song. Don't know why. And when she killed stanza because my lancer happened to attack in just the right way... Yeah.

[Triaxx]

I always wanted my Archer high up, so he could have longer shots. On the other hand, a Ninja on the water with a full load of Shuriken or the elemental spheres, could be a very dangerous thing.

I always switched around what I was using for my movement otherwise. Though one game I played through entirely as Monk Class with the Teleport Ability. It felt more like DBZ Tactics. Which was pretty awesome.

[nhbdy]

When I played 1.3 I really loved a break archer on the maps with significant high ground, in fact, my kill-algus-with-all-things-pointy strategy relied on it (and he is significantly harder as one might suspect)

[KillianHawkeye]

Anybody besides me like training monsters? Last time I played (years ago), I had one of those three-headed dragons, some really big badass monster (maybe a minotaur or something? can't remember), and of course a red chocobo.

I really didn't use generic soldiers that much since you get so many named characters who all have cool unique abilities. Except for Rafa and Malak, they suck and I ditched those losers as soon as possible.

[Triaxx]

But Malak is incredibly useful with Move-Find Item! He's almost guaranteed to find something.

Rafa... yeah, drop her like a hotcake. :P

Was Algus ever hard? True, he's got auto-potion, but it only keeps him from being unhealthy. It doesn't do squat for status effects. Geomancy for the win. Litterally.

[Tono]

Algus is only hard if you don't know what you are doing. I've had friends complain about him when they had nothing but chemist/archers and maybe a knight or BM. Those same people just... gave up at Wiegraf too, but yea.

[Larkas]

He's talking about 1.3's Algus. Forget anything you think you know about the game when talking about 1.3 content. Think FFT: Dark Souls Edition.

[Seerow]

Algus was also a pretty rough point for a lot of challenge runs. It's one of those fights that's not too hard normally because you can overpower it, but if you're restricted much it becomes a much bigger pain.


And Rafa/Malak can be useful... they have the highest damage potential of the game! Honestly if their attacks had less vertical tolerance so you could narrow down their attack's wide area, it'd be amazing. But since it's not, never really used them.

As for monsters, I never really had an interest in any of them. I tried grabbing some chocobos once, but since you can't make characters start mounted, and they take up character slots, it's not worth it. And most other monsters are too weak to justify a slot on the team. Some of the lategame ones (I think Behemoths?) may be worth it, but by then you've got a full team of specials and other soldiers you've been training for 3.5 chapters.

[nhbdy]

He's talking about 1.3's Algus. Forget anything you think you know about the game when talking about 1.3 content. Think FFT: Dark Souls Edition.

Indeed I was, regular algus isn't hard at all, but 1.3 takes what you think you know and murders you horribly with it. As far as generics vs specials go I used them (specials) quite extensively early on in my FFT days, but now I find more joy in having well rounded generics, something about the feeling of being able to make a fighter good for your specific situation, without help from those OP special abilities like holy sword just feels good to me.

On the 1.3 algus fight:
In short, the algus fight has a lot of more capable mooks, and while I'm sure it's possible to defeat them all, I never had success with it. As we all know, algus has auto potion, yet unlike normal, he has access to high tier potions, meaning it's hard to actually keep damage on him. Therefore my strategy revolves around killing him in one hit. How? You reduce his maximum HP stat, and force him to overextend, and this is accomplished by breaking his weapon (to force him to close in) and then his armor (no more HP bonus). Follow this up by a new archer ability called cursed strike (blind and oil) and then explosion from your wizard (fire damage, oil buffs it by a lot) and you have a good recipe to drop one annoying character who is pretty hard to like.

edited for clarity and some explaination

[SiuiS]

Which one was Algus?

I remember at one point I started fresh, and was switching around and playing totally different for the challenge. It was really fun, up until I got to the guy who became Ares, and had to fight him as Ramza the chemist, and accidentally saved over my file with the "do you want to save, deep in this dungeon?" Feature.

That sucked. Even spamming jump he eventually desynched and spent his actions murdering me.

[nhbdy]

Which one was Algus?

Algus was the jerk that you save early on who ends up shooting Delita's sister.

[Larkas]

As for monsters, I never really had an interest in any of them. I tried grabbing some chocobos once, but since you can't make characters start mounted, and they take up character slots, it's not worth it. And most other monsters are too weak to justify a slot on the team. Some of the lategame ones (I think Behemoths?) may be worth it, but by then you've got a full team of specials and other soldiers you've been training for 3.5 chapters.

The Hydra line of monsters is positively beastly. What's better: they can be invited to your party with 100% accuracy using Reis, since they count as dragons. Dragons and Behemots are pretty good too, as are Red, and even Black Chocobos.

The main problem I have with monsters is pretty much related to what you said: they become viable only in lategame, when you already have a full complement of characters if you kept all the specials, the special generics (Ladd, Alicia, Lavian) and Boco. I'm not about to let any of them go to go wild with monsters. IIRC, I only kept a Tiamat and a Mind Flayer (to abuse the level down/level up exploit).

The other problem I have is that you can't equip monsters. That means you're stuck with their (mostly) crappy movement. Tiamat, IIRC, can only move 3 squares, for example. Luckily, it makes up for it with its beastly ability range.


I remember at one point I started fresh, and was switching around and playing totally different for the challenge. It was really fun, up until I got to the guy who became Ares, and had to fight him as Ramza the chemist, and accidentally saved over my file with the "do you want to save, deep in this dungeon?" Feature.

Is this the guy?

http://spritedatabase.net/files/ps1/875/Sprite/Velius.gif

If that's so, he is pretty much the first reason you might see for grinding a little before a story fight. Go unprepared and you're sure to be steamrolled.

[SiuiS]

Algus was the jerk that you save early on who ends up shooting Delita's sister.

Oh, right. Nuclear bloodstain, I had hit him so hard last time we fought I erased him from memory with the force of it.


The Hydra line of monsters is positively beastly. What's better: they can be invited to your party with 100% accuracy using Reis, since they count as dragons. Dragons and Behemots are pretty good too, as are Red, and even Black Chocobos.

The main problem I have with monsters is pretty much related to what you said: they become viable only in lategame, when you already have a full complement of characters if you kept all the specials, the special generics (Ladd, Alicia, Lavian) and Boco. I'm not about to let any of them go to go wild with monsters. IIRC, I only kept a Tiamat and a Mind Flayer (to abuse the level down/level up exploit).

Hmm? How did the Tiamat and mind flare help with that exploit?

I remember having fun with monsters. They were all kind of crap, really – it was harder not to do 999 damage all the time than otherwise – but they were fun.


Is this the guy?

http://spritedatabase.net/files/ps1/875/Sprite/Velius.gif

If that's so, he is pretty much the first reason you might see for grinding a little before a story fight. Go unprepared and you're sure to be steamrolled.

Yep! Steamrolled him in my primary account by virtue of being awesome. Got used to wipe his bum in the second run...

[NecroRebel]

Hmm? How did the Tiamat and mind flare help with that exploit?

I remember having fun with monsters. They were all kind of crap, really – it was harder not to do 999 damage all the time than otherwise – but they were fun.

Mind Flares near a beastmaster can level targets down, so you don't need a Degenerator trap to use the exploit with. I don't think a Tiamat is relevant to it, though.

Personally I had fun breeding and poaching Uribos and Wildbows for chantages and ribbons. Make Ramza invisible and have everyone else be girls with chantages, and you auto-win every battle except for bodyguard matches, even with horribly underpowered armies.

[Larkas]

Hmm? How did the Tiamat and mind flare help with that exploit?

Tiamat doesn't help, only Mind Flayer does. Sorry, bad phrasing. I kept a Tiamat because it's awesome, and Mind Flayer because, next to a Beastmaster, it has Level Blast.

[Triaxx]

He mentioned 1.3 Algus being harder, so I was wondering if he was ever hard to begin with. Then again, considering I usually had Ice 2 by the time that fight rolled around, I was never hurting for damage to begin with. On the other hand, a single Geomancer could easily turn the tide on that battle I found, as long as they got lucky. I have never been able to get the codes for 1.3 to work quite right so I've never played it.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Algus was the jerk that you save early on who ends up shooting Delita's sister.

The Jerk that in the remake they bring back as a Death Knight just so you can kill him again.

[Gnoman]

He mentioned 1.3 Algus being harder, so I was wondering if he was ever hard to begin with. Then again, considering I usually had Ice 2 by the time that fight rolled around, I was never hurting for damage to begin with. On the other hand, a single Geomancer could easily turn the tide on that battle I found, as long as they got lucky. I have never been able to get the codes for 1.3 to work quite right so I've never played it.

If you're not grinding (more accurately, if you're not spending in-game months going back and forth on the map or abusing frog and Auto-Battle to grind), or don't know the class tree very well, Algus can be extremely difficult, primarily due to his Auto-potion ability (in the early game, without much grinding, doing >30 HP an attack can be difficult) and the way your party is split at the start.

[Tono]

Has 1.3 made any major changes since that one dude left ffhactiks? I stopped paying attention then due to life/boredom with the project/not really liking all the drama.

[nhbdy]

Has 1.3 made any major changes since that one dude left ffhactiks? I stopped paying attention then due to life/boredom with the project/not really liking all the drama.

If the last you saw of it was over on hactiks then it has had changes, and you can find it and any information on it over at www.insanedifficulty.com I'd offer a rundown of major changes, but I found it after it moved, so I know basically nothing of what it was back then

[Triaxx]

Honestly, I didn't realize he was supposed to be hard until the second playthrough or so. My initial tactic was to simply smash him until his reaction failed. Didn't hurt that I had Libras and Gemini, so no Zodiac weirdness.

[KillianHawkeye]

But Malak is incredibly useful with Move-Find Item! He's almost guaranteed to find something.

Rafa... yeah, drop her like a hotcake. :P

Yeah, you can keep him long enough to get the special shield and spear on that one map, but otherwise I'd never use either one. That stupid random targeting effect makes their powers next to useless! :smallmad: Also, their story is dumb and they are dumb.

[nhbdy]

Yeah, you can keep him long enough to get the special shield and spear on that one map, but otherwise I'd never use either one. That stupid random targeting effect makes their powers next to useless! :smallmad: Also, their story is dumb and they are dumb.

I'd like to disagree with you on the grounds of their story, yet I cannot seem to get over the fact that rafa likes to suicide turn one on the fight with Elmdore... So yeah, screw em :smallyuk:

[Larkas]

I'd like to disagree with you on the grounds of their story, yet I cannot seem to get over the fact that rafa likes to suicide turn one on the fight with Elmdore... So yeah, screw em :smallyuk:

Their story is alright, if not great. Malak is an ***hole for ignoring the raping of his sister by their so-called foster father, however, and at times I just feel like letting him be turned into crystal. :smalltongue:

[KillianHawkeye]

Their story is alright, if not great. Malak is an ***hole for ignoring the raping of his sister by their so-called foster father, however, and at times I just feel like letting him be turned into crystal. :smalltongue:

I just dismiss them from the party and pretend like I sold them back into slavery. :smallwink:

[SiuiS]

Mind Flares near a beastmaster can level targets down, so you don't need a Degenerator trap to use the exploit with. I don't think a Tiamat is relevant to it, though.

Personally I had fun breeding and poaching Uribos and Wildbows for chantages and ribbons. Make Ramza invisible and have everyone else be girls with chantages, and you auto-win every battle except for bodyguard matches, even with horribly underpowered armies.

Oh, neat. I didn't really go through all the monsters... Man that would have been much better than that damn needle.


Did any of y'all ever get the Zodiark summon? I somehow got it on my archer and spent a good three days trying to get it into someone else before my fugue kicked in. Managed three people, none of them Ramza...


I just dismiss them from the party and pretend like I sold them back into slavery. :smallwink:

Ouch.

I remember them now though! Yeah. No amount of battlefield contrivance or control made them worthwhile.

[Triaxx]

To be fair, they only really suck in their base classes. Rafa makes a fairly good monk, given her naturally high starting Brave. Of course she comes with all the downsides of Female Monks, but... it also makes her a great Dancer.

[KillianHawkeye]

To be fair, they only really suck in their base classes. Rafa makes a fairly good monk, given her naturally high starting Brave. Of course she comes with all the downsides of Female Monks, but... it also makes her a great Dancer.

While there is some truth to that, I can't forgive somebody who has a unique skill set when it's a set of skills that all suck. Basically all of my other unique characters continued to use their special job skills even when going into other classes, because those unique abilities were usually pretty damn good. (I always prioritized multiclassing in order to make sure people got abilities needed to continue using their core power set, like putting Mustadio through the Mediator class to get Equip Gun or putting the various sword skill guys into Knight to get Equip Sword.) So then these two kids come along and their special powers are terrible! So what good are they? Generic guys with a special character sprite? No thanks. I have enough generic guys already. Hell, by that late in the game, the only reason to still be using generic guys is because they can do side jobs at the taverns and your unique guys can't (ergo neither can Rafa and Malak). I would really MUCH rather have a Behemoth or a three-headed dragon on my team than somebody who brings basically nothing to the table.

I mean, even having a high Brave stat isn't that unique by the time you get these two. You can get permanent increases to your Brave and Faith every time you use that Mediator ability which grants +4 in combat (3 points are temporary, 1 is a permanent increase). That's the kind of stuff you start doing in the end game because Brave governs the success rate of reactionary abilities like Counter, Hamedo, and Blade Grasp. Just imagine T.G. Cid with Blade Grasp and a 97 Brave--that's a 97% miss chance for all enemy melee attacks against him! :smallbiggrin::smallcool:

Anway, Reis makes a way better female Monk than Rafa does on account of her unique class innately having dual wield and her amazingly good stat growth. Plus, she has special abilities that are actually pretty powerful.



In other words, pretty much EVERY other unique character you get in the game has somewhere between 50% and 150% awesomeness, except Rafa and Malak who have -50% awesomeness. Yeah, they actually make your chances of success worse by being in the party. And you get SO MANY unique characters that there's really no hope of using them all on a regular basis. I mean, between Agrias and Orlandu, Mustadio and Worker 8, Beowulf and Reis, Cloud, and even Meliadoul? Rafa and Malak are literally not in the same league as the rest of Ramza's team. In a game where you can have up to 16 party members but can only bring 5 on any particular mission, there comes a point where you need to draw a line in the sand. And, unfortunately for them, Rafa and Malak are firmly on the other side of that line.

[DigoDragon]

Just bard? You haven't lived until your lone champion sallies forth, backed by two bards backed by two backup dancers.

Two Bards and Two Dancers? Try Bard, Dancer, dual mimes.

I generally side with bard because for some reason monsters I encounter like making their saves versus my dancers. But Bard+Dancer+Mimes has been a thing for me and a wild hilarious one at that. :smallbiggrin: In two to three rounds I pretty much have the enemy on the ropes speed-wise and so my 5th unit can pick them off however I choose. Makes Charge+20 totally doable. ;)


I thinknIgnore height was my default movement skill, actually. I changed it for some maps, but relied on those shoes for the distance boost.

Except the archer. The archer got walk on water and stood in the middle of a lake dropping shots on fools. XD

I stuck with teleport. I generally want the enemy coming to me and when I do move, I'm not going far. Thereby I rarely fail a teleport. I did once successfully teleport from one corner of a map to another on a fairly large board. That was both awesome for the sheer "One-in-a-million" chance that would succeed and awful because not my unit is stuck behind the enemy and about to get beaten to a pulp by the mindflayers. XD



Anybody besides me like training monsters? Last time I played (years ago), I had one of those three-headed dragons, some really big badass monster (maybe a minotaur or something? can't remember), and of course a red chocobo.

I really didn't use generic soldiers that much since you get so many named characters who all have cool unique abilities. Except for Rafa and Malak, they suck and I ditched those losers as soon as possible.

I like to keep a black chocobo on hand for the really wonky water maps. That way I can just get my slow units across and pick off the monsters as they attempt to swim at me. Or I'll just slap "Walk on Water" on my lancers and skewer the swimmers before they can get across. :smallbiggrin: Other than that I haven't found much need for monsters except for an occasional poaching if I need some rare items. Though that doesn't come up often.


Algus was the jerk that you save early on who ends up shooting Delita's sister.

Revenge is a monk with Accumulate constantly building for 20 rounds and then punching Algus into infinity. :smallbiggrin:



yet I cannot seem to get over the fact that rafa likes to suicide turn one on the fight with Elmdore... So yeah, screw em :smallyuk:

Ugh, Elmdore... no, actually he isn't that bad to deal with. His two associates, Death and Taxes, are "That One Boss" for me in the first encounter (the roof fight). Arg, nothing like watching one charm Ramza and then the other Ultima's his face off before we've even finished with our second round. :smallfurious: The later fight at the castle is a bit easier when I got some stuff on hand to defend against their instant death. Though they're still quite annoying.



Hell, by that late in the game, the only reason to still be using generic guys is because they can do side jobs at the taverns and your unique guys can't (ergo neither can Rafa and Malak).

Strange, I thought you could use the unique ones as long as they weren't vital to the next encounter of the story... guess I didn't remember that right. I liked some of the shout-outs and callbacks you get from those side jobs. Like the Phantom Train story, Matoya's Cave, etc. Neat little things.

Anyway, the uniques I liked were Cid, Agrias, Orlandu, and Beowulf. Put them together on a team and I pretty much win the game. :smallcool:[/QUOTE]

[Tono]

Comparing Reis to anyone is unfair because Reis is literally just that awesome. You can pick any job in the game a Reis will do it better then any one. Because. Reis.

Rafa and Malak are actually interesting characters with a lot of potential in their special jobs, they get the ability to use a stick (Best weapon IMO) and their skills are awesome, just rather poorly planned out. There is a reason a lot of balance mods did not need to actually touch those classes much. Make it garuntee'd to hit each cell at least once, with as someone mentioned earlier in the thread maybe less vertical tolerance and BAM. Instant assassins. Well, Malak is still hurt by low brave, but Rafa can do her thing all day and all night.

[Larkas]

Did any of y'all ever get the Zodiark summon? I somehow got it on my archer and spent a good three days trying to get it into someone else before my fugue kicked in. Managed three people, none of them Ramza...

It isn't that difficult, really. And once you have it on a party member, just find a random battle with a Summoner, blast his MA into oblivion, have him learn Zodiark from you and let him cast on your other Summoners!


Anyway, the uniques I liked were Cid, Agrias, Orlandu, and Beowulf. Put them together on a team and I pretty much win the game. :smallcool:

Cid and Orlandu are the same person.:smallbiggrin:


Rafa and Malak are actually interesting characters with a lot of potential in their special jobs, they get the ability to use a stick (Best weapon IMO) and their skills are awesome, just rather poorly planned out. There is a reason a lot of balance mods did not need to actually touch those classes much. Make it garuntee'd to hit each cell at least once, with as someone mentioned earlier in the thread maybe less vertical tolerance and BAM. Instant assassins. Well, Malak is still hurt by low brave, but Rafa can do her thing all day and all night.

Actually, quite a few do something to them to make them more viable. 1.3 itself does, IIRC.

[SiuiS]

Edit: I got to the point where the game did t have an MA low enough that I could hit the enemy and have him A) survive and B) learn it. I spent so much time finagling faith and MA and gear... Sigh.


To be fair, they only really suck in their base classes. Rafa makes a fairly good monk, given her naturally high starting Brave. Of course she comes with all the downsides of Female Monks, but... it also makes her a great Dancer.

You mean not everyone had max Brave on their guys by the end of the second act, if not sooner?

Man, I remember when I finally got to the hidden cave, it took so long to bust my Umbralli's brave down enough she could use move/find... I miss that dungeon. The little phrase you get for hitting select on the level? Valkyrie's saying changed my life.


Comparing Reis to anyone is unfair because Reis is literally just that awesome. You can pick any job in the game a Reis will do it better then any one. Because. Reis.

Rafa and Malak are actually interesting characters with a lot of potential in their special jobs, they get the ability to use a stick (Best weapon IMO) and their skills are awesome, just rather poorly planned out. There is a reason a lot of balance mods did not need to actually touch those classes much. Make it garuntee'd to hit each cell at least once, with as someone mentioned earlier in the thread maybe less vertical tolerance and BAM. Instant assassins. Well, Malak is still hurt by low brave, but Rafa can do her thing all day and all night.

That's weird. I remember Reis being subpar, myself. Although everyone in the party was, like, level 400 by then. So maybe it's just not a fair comparison. Like, Cloud? Cherry blossom was awesome! But getting him to a useable point was so tedious, I gave up and made him a chemist with throw. He became my medic.

And then there was thunder god Cidolfas Orlandu, me gusta! That man was fantastic. Such beard! Very sword! Total Victory!

[Calemyr]

That's weird. I remember Reis being subpar, myself. Although everyone in the party was, like, level 400 by then. So maybe it's just not a fair comparison. Like, Cloud? Cherry blossom was awesome! But getting him to a useable point was so tedious, I gave up and made him a chemist with throw. He became my medic.

And then there was thunder god Cidolfas Orlandu, me gusta! That man was fantastic. Such beard! Very sword! Total Victory!

Reis wasn't ol' T.G. Cid, but she was a solid runner up. Her special class had enough Speed/Physical Atk/Magic Atk/HP growth to make Ubersquire Ramza cry and innate fisticuffs. Put two weapon fighting on the girl and you had one scary monk that could buff, tame, and mimic dragons. That growth also meant that she could rock geomancy in a way only Ramza could imagine, and high speed on a powerhouse is a really nice thing. Add to that the fact that she's a girl (and thus could use perfumes) and you get an immortal monk loaded with long range crowd control and short range elemental instant-cast abilities. It's just a pity she was such a late entry to the story - I would have loved to have her for more of the game. Of course, the same could be said for pretty much everyone. Outside of Mustadio and Agrias, everyone who joins is generally far behind on the development track - even TG Cid needs some dedicated training to deliver on his reputation.

Of course, if you get up to ~400 levels, her advantages are going to be pretty small potatoes compared to what everyone else has.

[Larkas]

Edit: I got to the point where the game did t have an MA low enough that I could hit the enemy and have him A) survive and B) learn it. I spent so much time finagling faith and MA and gear... Sigh.

It can be tedious, no doubt, but it's quite doable. Finish every enemy up except for the Summoner, drop his MA to 1, drop your Summoner's MA to 1 and pass Zodiark around. And bring a monk that can replenish the enemy's MP, just in case.

[Beacon of Chaos]

I really liked FFTA, it's one of the few games I 100%'d, even after having to restart 'cause of the freakin' White Thread. A2 didn't resonate with me anywhere near as much, I think mainly because the new races and classes seemed poorly thought out. The trickster class in particular rubbed me the wrong way.
White Thread?


My experience is most people who liked FFTA played that as their first tactics game.

Most people who played FFT first, and then went to FFTA looking for the same style of game got disgusted and quit early, and tend to hold a grudge against it if they even choose to acknowledge its existence.
I guess FFTA was my first Tactics game, yeah.

From what I've played of FFT, it seems kinda boring to me.

Do you get moogles with guns in FFT? That's my main concern. :smalltongue:


Advance wasn't bad, but it didn't have the same draw. Tactics was very much a game you could screw up in battle as opposed to on missions or on the map. Advance was... Easier in that regard, but harder to milk once you got to milking. I forgot you did that though! I always wondered if you got that better phone working, I recall the speed being sub par for you.
FFT certainly seems harder. I think I died on the first battle. :smallsigh:

And yeah, my iPhone 3 couldn't cut it and the game ran in slow motion. I got my Dad's old iPhone 4 and it runs much better.

[Larkas]

From what I've played of FFT, it seems kinda boring to me.

Boring?!? Oh, poor children of Ivalice from ages past... :smallbiggrin: (j/k, of course)

[Calemyr]

This is probably a stupid question to ask, but...

Is anyone on this thread a fan of modding this game, or the game saves, or just using the old Game Shark to screw with the data a bit? Things like giving generic characters unique classes/sprites and such to make non-standard special NPCs. Like using Olan Durai's class to make him an actual member of the party (though that Galaxy Stop ability is pretty darn broken), or creating Sephiroth and Celes by using the classes for Elmdore and Balmaufra, respectively. (The actual jobs for those two is useless, but fully functional if you get them to level 8 squire before making the change.)

I'm just curious if anyone else likes doing this, because I can't for the life of me remember if there are any other good non-standard sprites that work properly in all the menus... And I do enjoy recruiting characters I'm not legally allowed to (even if they aren't any more effective than generics, it's nice to have a distinctive appearance to them).

(Just in case anyone gets mad at me for modding, I do own the game. Three times over, in fact: The PSX version, the UMD WotL version for the PSP, and a digital version for the Vita.)

[Larkas]

This is probably a stupid question to ask, but...

Is anyone on this thread a fan of modding this game, or the game saves, or just using the old Game Shark to screw with the data a bit? Things like giving generic characters unique classes/sprites and such to make non-standard special NPCs. Like using Olan Durai's class to make him an actual member of the party (though that Galaxy Stop ability is pretty darn broken), or creating Sephiroth and Celes by using the classes for Elmdore and Balmaufra, respectively. (The actual jobs for those two is useless, but fully functional if you get them to level 8 squire before making the change.)

I'm just curious if anyone else likes doing this, because I can't for the life of me remember if there are any other good non-standard sprites that work properly in all the menus... And I do enjoy recruiting characters I'm not legally allowed to (even if they aren't any more effective than generics, it's nice to have a distinctive appearance to them).

(Just in case anyone gets mad at me for modding, I do own the game. Three times over, in fact: The PSX version, the UMD WotL version for the PSP, and a digital version for the Vita.)

www.ffhacktics.com will cover all your needs. :smallwink:

[Calemyr]

www.ffhacktics.com will cover all your needs. :smallwink:

Yeah, I remember that site. I have fond memories of adding Terra, Tidus, and Firion to the party, then recruiting Cloud and renaming a black mage Vivi. Can't do that with the Vita, unfortunately.

I don't remember a "playable/semi-playable sprite" list, though. I'll have to go look again after work.

[Larkas]

Yeah, I remember that site. I have fond memories of adding Terra, Tidus, and Firion to the party, then recruiting Cloud and renaming a black mage Vivi. Can't do that with the Vita, unfortunately.

I don't remember a "playable/semi-playable sprite" list, though. I'll have to go look again after work.

There were a few, IIRC. I know I modded Agrias in my game.

[SiuiS]

Reis wasn't ol' T.G. Cid, but she was a solid runner up. Her special class had enough Speed/Physical Atk/Magic Atk/HP growth to make Ubersquire Ramza cry and innate fisticuffs. Put two weapon fighting on the girl and you had one scary monk that could buff, tame, and mimic dragons. That growth also meant that she could rock geomancy in a way only Ramza could imagine, and high speed on a powerhouse is a really nice thing. Add to that the fact that she's a girl (and thus could use perfumes) and you get an immortal monk loaded with long range crowd control and short range elemental instant-cast abilities. It's just a pity she was such a late entry to the story - I would have loved to have her for more of the game. Of course, the same could be said for pretty much everyone. Outside of Mustadio and Agrias, everyone who joins is generally far behind on the development track - even TG Cid needs some dedicated training to deliver on his reputation.

Of course, if you get up to ~400 levels, her advantages are going to be pretty small potatoes compared to what everyone else has.

Huh. I recall she had two weapon naturally (I borked up a capture by accidentally brutally murdering with prejudice as the second fist came down, crit and knocked the dragon off a cliff) but the rest... That's all true, and optimal, but that much optimization didn't seem valid for the game. Ah well. I guess I'm just bad at FFT :smalltongue:

Cid, Cid had the benefit of having swords, skills and just general awesomeness. He may not have been as good as my team but he was still far and away, better than the enemy.


It can be tedious, no doubt, but it's quite doable. Finish every enemy up except for the Summoner, drop his MA to 1, drop your Summoner's MA to 1 and pass Zodiark around. And bring a monk that can replenish the enemy's MP, just in case.

Yeah, tedious. I put more hours into FFT than I did into high school...



From what I've played of FFT, it seems kinda boring to me.

Do you get moogles with guns in FFT? That's my main concern. :smalltongue:

No gunmoogles. Tactics is harder, in the sense that it doesn't pull it's punches. It is a tactical game, and just rushing forward can and will get you killed.
But that was the charm, really. I don't know how to help you with boring though. I cared about the story and it's depths enough to stick with it, I enjoyed the class and battle systems enough to have fun with them and I'm enough of an obsessive to have optimized for it's own sake.



And yeah, my iPhone 3 couldn't cut it and the game ran in slow motion. I got my Dad's old iPhone 4 and it runs much better.

Oh, good'n well, I hope you enjoy. Can you do the JP cheat? That might make things more interesting for you~

[Larkas]

Yeah, tedious. I put more hours into FFT than I did into high school...

I was adept of the level down/level up exploit, so... I think we're on the same boat here. :smallbiggrin:

[Beacon of Chaos]

Oh, good'n well, I hope you enjoy. Can you do the JP cheat? That might make things more interesting for you~
What JP cheat?

[Gnoman]

If it is what I think it is, it was a bug present in the original PS1 version (fixed in War of the Lions, but I don't know if it is still present in other distributions). It involves the fact that holding Square (on the original system) allows you to page up/down in menus rather than going one item at a time, as long as there's more than one full page. This was possible in appropriate skill lists even if the "Do you want to learn this skill?" box was displayed. If you scrolled in this fashion, the game loaded garbage data that had odd effects on that character's JP total, in many cases setting it to 9999 or 0000-but-all-skills-cost-0. It is almost as iconic a bug as the famous dupe trick.

[DigoDragon]

Cid and Orlandu are the same person.:smallbiggrin:

D'ohh, that they are. Apparently it's been longer than I realized since I played this game.



Comparing Reis to anyone is unfair because Reis is literally just that awesome.

That's weird. I remember Reis being subpar, myself. Although everyone in the party was, like, level 400 by then.

Reis is really good provided she's properly leveled to match the rest of your party. I tended to train her into mime class because... well mine. Can do everything. Only better. Even one-shotting Ramza when I 'm not paying attention to her facing is she more efficient... dang it, who's got life spell?



You mean not everyone had max Brave on their guys by the end of the second act, if not sooner?

Man, I remember when I finally got to the hidden cave, it took so long to bust my Umbralli's brave down enough she could use move/find... I miss that dungeon. The little phrase you get for hitting select on the level? Valkyrie's saying changed my life.

I can't remember the quotes, but the dungeon was indeed fun. I always wait until I grab Cloud before chopping his Brave down for the dungeon. Practically gaurantees me the good loot. I can't remember if I got Zodiac or not, but I know I got Ultima for Ramza down there. It was... kinda okay? Maybe I just felt slicing things was more efficient.



Cid, Cid had the benefit of having swords, skills and just general awesomeness. He may not have been as good as my team but he was still far and away, better than the enemy.

Cid was Broken-Good in my team. He was one of only two characters I can solo any board with. I think he pretty much earned that 'Thunder God' nick from me. :smallcool:

[Morbis Meh]

STOP IT ALL OF YOU! All of this talk is causing the siren song of FFT to tempt me back to it! It has sucked so much time from me, that sweet sweet succubus and there are so many other unplayed games that crave my attention! I swear I will be playing psone games until I die because most of them are sooo good... Hmm maybe I should hack the game and put the Xenogears party in it... there would be no gears present but it would still be loads of fun :smallbiggrin:

[Triaxx]

I agree about Rafa and Malak, I never have them on my team for more than a bit past their initial joining. Like Meliadoul, I just bring them, pull their gear and then eject them bodily.

On the other hand, I never give up my starter Generic's. By the time I have to make a decision, the're at a level where the choice isn't a choice at all. Only Cid actually competes for power with them by the time I'm getting new characters. Then again, by dumping the three unique generics and Boco, you can keep your starter team and the vast majority of the uniques as well.

FFT can be a bit boring to start out. Once you get towards the end of the first chapter, then the game starts to make more sense, and it's more interesting. Don't try to understand the story. It's the poster child for the Thirty Gambit Pileup trope.

[Larkas]

FFT can be a bit boring to start out. Once you get towards the end of the first chapter, then the game starts to make more sense, and it's more interesting. Don't try to understand the story. It's the poster child for the Thirty Gambit Pileup trope.

It actually makes a lot of sense - the further you go. You're literally thrown in the middle of some heavy political intrigue. It only makes sense when the fabric begins to unweave.

[Gnoman]

The fact that the translation is pretty much the worst I've ever seen in a text-heavy game makes things much more difficult to understand. The plot isn't really that complex once you get into it, but it is very solid up until the Zodiac Demons show up, after which the quality declines. Honestly, I think the plot would have been much better if the Zodiac Stones had held purely symbolic value. All of the main plotting (a billion times more interesting then the final "Summon demon to rule world" bit was) could be left intact, and the game would have actually been able to focus on it a lot more.

[Calemyr]

The fact that the translation is pretty much the worst I've ever seen in a text-heavy game makes things much more difficult to understand. The plot isn't really that complex once you get into it, but it is very solid up until the Something show up, after which the quality declines. Honestly, I think the plot would have been much better if the Something had held purely symbolic value. All of the main plotting (a billion times more interesting then the final "Something" bit was) could be left intact, and the game would have actually been able to focus on it a lot more.

I think it was fairly essential to tell the story they wanted to. All that Zodiac Brave nonsense exists to give you something to do while watching your best friend scheme his way to the top. The true main story is Delita's, but you see it from a perspective you couldn't have achieved in a game otherwise. The Braves gave you bosses to fight, conspiracies to chase, and victories to cherish.

It's a weird kind of story where two idealistic youths find themselves caught within the cynical machinery of politics. On clings to his ideals while one sacrifices his ideals to achieve his dreams. Delita's story is more engaging and complex and ultimately happier (depending on whether you believe Orran's eyes or not), but it wouldn't make for a good game. Not this kind of game, anyway. Ramza's is more game-like, with straight-forward morality, charge-in-and-kill-em-all objectives, and big boss battles. Ramza's story really only exists because of the Braves. Without them, he's not even a footnote in history.

Personally, I liked the little McGuffins. They're portrayed as evil because that's how they're used, but they're also used to do really cool and morally good things as well.

[Ogremindes]

White Thread?

As you probably remember, in FFTA you get a bunch of misc. items that are used in side quests. You only can carry a finite number of them, so you'll probably need to discard ones you can replace. White Thread is an innocuous-looking item that you can get exactly three of, all of which you need to 100% the game.

[Larkas]

The fact that the translation is pretty much the worst I've ever seen in a text-heavy game makes things much more difficult to understand.

Have you tried the PSP version, or the PSX patch that backports the PSP translation? It is much better in that regard. Eh, it might be cheesy for some audiences, but I liked it nonetheless.

[Gnoman]

I own WotL, but stopped playing it due to the significant decrease in audio quality and performance (also, my FOAF PSP broke). Translation was superb, however. The translation patch for the PS1 is intriguing, do you know if there's been a version merged with 1.3?

As for the Zodiac Demons being necessary, I don't think they were.

Just replace the Cardinal changing into one with him (make him a high level Priest White Mage or unique caster class) trying to arrest you for uncovering the Church's dirty laundry; put the "fake Zodiac Braves" story into the forefront, and develop Wiegraf's post-Death Corps storyline to him becoming a major power in alliance with the Church. That gives you the "second front" for Ramza to fight in while watching Delita's plotting. Of course, I also think that "Terrorist group AVALANCE vs. Shin-ra Electric Power Company should have stayed the main conflict for FF7, with Sephiroth never showing up.

[Larkas]

I own WotL, but stopped playing it due to the significant decrease in audio quality and performance (also, my FOAF PSP broke). Translation was superb, however. The translation patch for the PS1 is intriguing, do you know if there's been a version merged with 1.3?

As for the Zodiac Demons being necessary, I don't think they were.

Just replace the Cardinal changing into one with him (make him a high level Priest White Mage or unique caster class) trying to arrest you for uncovering the Church's dirty laundry; put the "fake Zodiac Braves" story into the forefront, and develop Wiegraf's post-Death Corps storyline to him becoming a major power in alliance with the Church. That gives you the "second front" for Ramza to fight in while watching Delita's plotting. Of course, I also think that "Terrorist group AVALANCE vs. Shin-ra Electric Power Company should have stayed the main conflict for FF7, with Sephiroth never showing up.

I don't think so, unfortunately. It isn't impossible to merge them, mind you, but it does involve some non-trivial legwork.

Anyways, if anyone's interested in the PSX version with the PSP script (plus a few other extras), have a link (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=2686.0).

EDIT: Just remembered, there should be a 1.3 Easytype + Complete patch floating around somewhere, but it should be a few years old and, well, lacks the main drawing point of 1.3.

[Gnoman]

Is there no longer a WoTL version of 1.3? There's a Content version, but I can't find the full thing.

[Triaxx]

While I personally am of the story is a means to more fights kind of person, I never really had much trouble with the story. I could infact offer two or three specific explanations for the thing. And none of them are particularly contradictory. Which means they could all be true, or none. Thus, don't bother trying to understand the story, because it's different for every person's view.

[Larkas]

Is there no longer a WoTL version of 1.3? There's a Content version, but I can't find the full thing.

There is... But the guy that is maintaining it is messing too much with the game for my tastes. I'm trying to find an older version that's closer to the PSX's version (1.3.0.8)

EDIT: After researching a little... Yeah, I'll stick to the version found here (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=6474.0). It seems like the curator sort of went crazy after 1.3.0.3.0 and his patches stray way too far from the original game.

EDIT2: Found another patch (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=9724.0) that might just be what I'm looking for.

[DigoDragon]

On the other hand, I never give up my starter Generic's.

I always dump my starters and go shopping for a replacement set at the beginning town. This way I can get Generics that have complimentary zodiac signs (and decent stats for the training I intend for them). Plus I can give them fun names to match their jobs. :smalltongue:



Once you get towards the end of the first chapter, then the game starts to make more sense, and it's more interesting. Don't try to understand the story. It's the poster child for the Thirty Gambit Pileup trope.

My very first D&D 3.5 campaign was loosely based on FFT. I changed a lot of names and locations, but the whole political and social climate was there and pretty much intact from the game. It was quite interesting, that is, assuming you were the kind of player that liked that stuff. Half my players... weren't (Including the one player who did play FFT). :smallredface:



The fact that the translation is pretty much the worst I've ever seen in a text-heavy game makes things much more difficult to understand. The plot isn't really that complex once you get into it, but it is very solid up until the Zodiac Demons show up, after which the quality declines. Honestly, I think the plot would have been much better if the Zodiac Stones had held purely symbolic value.

I used to just make up my own text in a MST3K kind of way when I played. The early translations were confusing. I sort of head-canoned back then that the stones didn't turn folks into demons, they were demons all along reclaiming holy artifacts. It worked at the time... heck, kind of still works now If I wanted it to.

[SiuiS]

I think it was fairly essential to tell the story they wanted to. All that Zodiac Brave nonsense exists to give you something to do while watching your best friend scheme his way to the top. The true main story is Delita's, but you see it from a perspective you couldn't have achieved in a game otherwise. The Braves gave you bosses to fight, conspiracies to chase, and victories to cherish.

It's a weird kind of story where two idealistic youths find themselves caught within the cynical machinery of politics. On clings to his ideals while one sacrifices his ideals to achieve his dreams. Delita's story is more engaging and complex and ultimately happier (depending on whether you believe Orran's eyes or not), but it wouldn't make for a good game. Not this kind of game, anyway. Ramza's is more game-like, with straight-forward morality, charge-in-and-kill-em-all objectives, and big boss battles. Ramza's story really only exists because of the Braves. Without them, he's not even a footnote in history.

Personally, I liked the little McGuffins. They're portrayed as evil because that's how they're used, but they're also used to do really cool and morally good things as well.

Huh?

its been a long time, but as I recall...

Delita, finally free of all his machinations, brings the queen a bouquet. She stabs him and he retaliates out of paranoid habit. The plotting had gone on so long she couldn't believe there was any actual good to him, that this wasn't just another plot.

Did I miss something?

[Larkas]

Huh?

its been a long time, but as I recall...

Delita, finally free of all his machinations, brings the queen a bouquet. She stabs him and he retaliates out of paranoid habit. The plotting had gone on so long she couldn't believe there was any actual good to him, that this wasn't just another plot.

Did I miss something?

My thoughts exactly.

At most, he was remembered as a hero, a commoner that became king and put an end to a bloody conflict. In reality, he climbed all the way to the top and, just when he thought he could find peace and, ultimately, love, saw the house of cards he built crumble all around him. Ramza faces the greatest threat in the world, prevails, and isn't historically recognized for it. But at least he got out of it alive with his sister, and presumably his friends. And if he didn't go back to Ivalice to stir some trouble, it's because his ending was happy enough for him. I don't know about you, but for me, Ramza got the real happy ending. Delita's was, at most, bittersweet.

Regardless, Orran was the one to get the short end of the stick, and was executed by a corrupt church for trying to tell the truth. His was the real bad ending. Well, at least his descendant found his work and was able to tell us how the real War of the Lions went. :smallwink:

... Which, all things considered, seems quite a bit far-fetched. :smallbiggrin:

[NecroRebel]

Regardless, Orran was the one to get the short end of the stick, and was executed by a corrupt church for trying to tell the truth. His was the real bad ending. Well, at least his descendant found his work and was able to tell us how the real War of the Lions went. :smallwink:

... Which, all things considered, seems quite a bit far-fetched. :smallbiggrin:

Wasn't there some implication that there had been a bunch of holes in the "official" story of the Lion War that the Durai Report filled in? That would make it somewhat less improbable that someone could teach how it really went successfully. Or are you thinking that Orran actually having descendents is the far-fetched part? We don't know how long after the War the Report was written, so it probably was long enough for him to have children. He was seen in the company of a woman during the ending, after all :smallamused:

[Larkas]

Wasn't there some implication that there had been a bunch of holes in the "official" story of the Lion War that the Durai Report filled in? That would make it somewhat less improbable that someone could teach how it really went successfully. Or are you thinking that Orran actually having descendents is the far-fetched part? We don't know how long after the War the Report was written, so it probably was long enough for him to have children. He was seen in the company of a woman during the ending, after all :smallamused:

Oh, certainly! The far-fetched bit is because the official history says that a king rose up and united the country, while the Durai Papers says that a youth rose up to defeat 12 demons and their master, and ended up saving Ivalice! :smalleek:

But you have a point, Orran ended up with Valmafra. That must be worth something. :smallbiggrin:

[Calemyr]

Huh?

its been a long time, but as I recall...

Delita, finally free of all his machinations, brings the queen a bouquet. She stabs him and he retaliates out of paranoid habit. The plotting had gone on so long she couldn't believe there was any actual good to him, that this wasn't just another plot.

Did I miss something?

Yes, his own queen tries to kill him and he kills her right back. And he wonders in the aftermath if Ramza got anything at all for his suffering. But Delita survives the stabbing and has a long and successful rule over a united and peaceful kingdom. Sure, that's almost certainly glossing over the backroom deals, manipulation, backstabbing, and assassinations that Delita would have used to maintain that peace, but ultimately he did exactly what he set out to do: He went from the son of a stablehand to being the king himself, and ruled over a kingdom without war and where it was the powerful that suffered (the aforementioned backroom deals, manipulation, backstabbing, and assassinations), not innocents like his sister.

Delita won. End of story. He set a goal, he achieved it, and he lived a long, successful life.

Ramza, on the other hand has one of two fates, and it's never clear which is the truth.

Ultima, realizing that Ramza is a direct descendant of the man who defeated her before (Germonik, maybe?), goes suicide bomber on his pixels and presumably wipes out the entire airship graveyard. All you hear is the sound of a Holy-like explosion and all you see is the entire screen enveloped in a Holy-like explosion.

Then, at Alma's funeral, Orran sees Ramza and Alma riding chocobo past the graveyard and goes running after Balmafura to share the news.

Did Ramza die in the airship graveyard, the victim of a petty last act of dying demon? Was Orran delusional when he saw them pass by? It's never made clear, only that nobody in Ramza's party was ever heard from again. Given that they were all branded as infamous heretics and traitors, that's not a surprise, but... none of them?

So my statement was this:
If Orran is right, then Ramza and co survived and retired into obscurity in the peace that followed. That's a happy ending of sorts - at least rivaling that of Delita's rise to lonely triumph.
If Orran is wrong, then Ramza died killing Ultima, along with everyone who threw their lots with him. That's a bittersweet ending, and Delita got the better ending of the two.

Either way, Orran gets burnt at the stake for recording Ramza's tale.

The one bit of evidence I've heard to say which ending is true is this: Orran never met Alma. How could he dream seeing her when he didn't know what she looked like?

[NecroRebel]

The one bit of evidence I've heard to say which ending is true is this: Orran never met Alma. How could he dream seeing her when he didn't know what she looked like?


More important is Yasumi Matsuno's tweet (https://twitter.com/YasumiMatsuno/status/169572953686683648) stating that Ramza survived and went on to adventure in other lands. Word of God like that tends to be fairly credible evidence for how the ending was meant to be interpreted.

[Calemyr]

More important is Yasumi Matsuno's tweet (https://twitter.com/YasumiMatsuno/status/169572953686683648) stating that Ramza survived and went on to adventure in other lands. Word of God like that tends to be fairly credible evidence for how the ending was meant to be interpreted.

Ah, that explains it. I will never touch twitter, so I missed that revelation.

[NecroRebel]

Ah, that explains it. I will never touch twitter, so I missed that revelation.

To be fair, I only know about it from reading TVTropes. If you don't regularly follow Twitter and don't stumble across information some other way, it's pretty much impossible to learn about things like that, though for my part I had assumed that Ramza and Alma had survived somehow after watching the ending. I only even considered that they might be ghosts or something after reading TVTropes, though I've now dismissed that possibility, naturally.

[Calemyr]

Actually, that brings up a point I've always wondered about. What did Delita do to Balmafura? I remember there being a scene where the two are at a sudden stand-off, expecting the other to betray them, and Delita acts first. I figured she was dead until she was at the funeral. Do they ever say how she survived or how Delita ensured she wouldn't betray him?

[Tono]

I was pretty sure it was a feint. Delita made it look like he killed her because he needed her gone, but actually liked her so basically said 'disappear.' Or maybe like what he did with T.G. Cid. Its been a while since I played, but I also assumed that was why she was with Olan? Hm. I just realized it has been forever since I gave her any though what so ever.
But no, as far as I know the game never had any actual reasoning. brb, checking script, because I am very curious now.

Just checked the script. Nothing in there between ending and final scene. Of note though, she has no lines after that scene, and in the bio part it updates that
'But, she was to be the
executioner of Delita if Delita was to double cross the
Church. She realized that she was falling for Delita, who
states that he is going to double cross the Church. Watching
his movements and listening to his thoughts, she is unable to
draw her sword.'

Very possible she or he just faked her death, since she was in on the whole faking Cid's death. Or he cut out her tongue or something.

Link to script if anyone is interestedright here. (http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/faqs/14169).

[KillianHawkeye]

I agree about Rafa and Malak, I never have them on my team for more than a bit past their initial joining. Like Meliadoul, I just bring them, pull their gear and then eject them bodily.

Meh... Meliadoul wasn't too bad. Her sword skill was just a ranged version of the Knight job's break skills, which is marginally useful (although not as great as any of the other unique character's with sword skills). Still, her mediocrity doesn't compare to the awfulness of Rafa and Malak.

[DigoDragon]

Huh?
its been a long time, but as I recall...

Delita, finally free of all his machinations, brings the queen a bouquet. She stabs him and he retaliates out of paranoid habit. The plotting had gone on so long she couldn't believe there was any actual good to him, that this wasn't just another plot.

Did I miss something?

That was how I remembered it.
And there Delita sat on his throne. He got what he wanted-- the crown and rulership over a united and peaceful kingdom. It only costed him his friends and loved ones.
Seriously good ending just for that part alone. Especially that last line Delita utters. Blows most other FF game quotes away.



Actually, that brings up a point I've always wondered about. What did Delita do to Balmafura? I remember there being a scene where the two are at a sudden stand-off, expecting the other to betray them, and Delita acts first. I figured she was dead until she was at the funeral. Do they ever say how she survived or how Delita ensured she wouldn't betray him?

My thought~
I figured Delita wounded Bal and left her. Didn't Delita figure out she was just a spy to keep him in check? Possible reason to not kill Bal was so that she could deliver a message back to her superiors from him.

[nhbdy]

Meh... Meliadoul wasn't too bad. Her sword skill was just a ranged version of the Knight job's break skills, which is marginally useful (although not as great as any of the other unique character's with sword skills). Still, her mediocrity doesn't compare to the awfulness of Rafa and Malak.

Of the specials, Meliadoul certainly wasn't a star, her moveset is not as flashy or cool as holy or temple knight, and nothing touches the brokeness that is sword saint. That said, she is special, and therefore superior, as she has swordskills, which as you pointed out, have ranged break options (not bad, but a generic can do that, archer/knight) however, hers are damage dealing (IIRC break skills don't damage) which means that you break and contribute to killing them at the same time, which is certainly a good advantage.

[NecroRebel]

Meliadoul would be better if not for two things. First, if the enemy has greatly superior equipment, you'd want to steal it rather than break it. Second, if the enemy doesn't have greatly superior equipment, breaking it doesn't really help all that much, so having a more offensively-based build is better. She's pretty powerful, but her ability isn't greatly useful.

I kind of wish they had put more enemies with holy sword or other powerful skills that require a weapon in the endgame. It would make her more useful, as the high% ranged equipment breaks would be better then.

[nhbdy]

Meliadoul would be better if not for two things. First, if the enemy has greatly superior equipment, you'd want to steal it rather than break it. Second, if the enemy doesn't have greatly superior equipment, breaking it doesn't really help all that much, so having a more offensively-based build is better. She's pretty powerful, but her ability isn't greatly useful.

I kind of wish they had put more enemies with holy sword or other powerful skills that require a weapon in the endgame. It would make her more useful, as the high% ranged equipment breaks would be better then.

Is this the part where I feel awkward for almost never using a thief?

[SiuiS]

dfgsfsdf

Yeah, the spoilers are because the game is being re-released repeatedly, and there are kids now who are 16 and able to get a job and buy this game that were stil being subdivided into a zygote when I played it. There's no reason to be mean, y'know?


Is this the part where I feel awkward for almost never using a thief?

Yeah, I just murdered the hell out of them and left them to crystalize. Usually. THieves had high move, high initaitve, and low defensive values. There was very little in the way of incentive to get them into position until I had a permainvisible ninja with thief skill.

[NecroRebel]

Is this the part where I feel awkward for almost never using a thief?

Not really, because the enemy practically never has greatly superior equipment, making stealing it kind of useless. Stealing is nice if you've done too much grinding and random encounters have become too hard, since you can steal equipment that's up to snuff, but if you don't do a crazy amount of that, or if your grinding has been in really effective ways, you never need to. Personally, I hardly ever steal or break enemy equipment unless I want to strip them all naked for kicks.

[Larkas]

Meliadoul would be better if not for two things. First, if the enemy has greatly superior equipment, you'd want to steal it rather than break it. Second, if the enemy doesn't have greatly superior equipment, breaking it doesn't really help all that much, so having a more offensively-based build is better. She's pretty powerful, but her ability isn't greatly useful.

I kind of wish they had put more enemies with holy sword or other powerful skills that require a weapon in the endgame. It would make her more useful, as the high% ranged equipment breaks would be better then.

Eh, attacking the enemy's armor with Meliadoul not only destroys the armor (which in itself drops the enemy's HP by a non-trivial amount), it also does damage. It may not be "Orlandeau" great, but it is quite good. Attacking other pieces of equipment may be situationally good too. Meliadoul is, IMHO, the fourth best special character, with Orlandeau first, Agrias second and Beowulf third. What's better: Dark Knight as a secondary job complements her abilities quite nicely.

[Triaxx]

I find that since I tend to fight more random battles and thus encounter more monsters than men, I end up not having any use for Meliadoul, who's entire skillset consists of anti-equipment users.

With a couple of rare exceptions, Thieves are generally useless for stealing anything except hearts, since most of the time the gear you'd steal is available the next time you go to the shop. IE the only reason you'd steal a bow in Dorter, is to use it on an archer, but after the Dorter battle, real bows become available. It just sort of seems pointless to steal gear.

As for Cid, I tend to bring him along, and then only pull him out when I know I'm going to need a fight over, NOW.

[SiuiS]

Eh, attacking the enemy's armor with Meliadoul not only destroys the armor (which in itself drops the enemy's HP by a non-trivial amount), it also does damage. It may not be "Orlandeau" great, but it is quite good. Attacking other pieces of equipment may be situationally good too. Meliadoul is, IMHO, the fourth best special character, with Orlandeau first, Agrias second and Beowulf third. What's better: Dark Knight as a secondary job complements her abilities quite nicely.

Oh, huh. You played war of the lions I suppose? Dark knight wasn't a class in the original.


I find that since I tend to fight more random battles and thus encounter more monsters than men, I end up not having any use for Meliadoul, who's entire skillset consists of anti-equipment users.

Yeah. Man, that first huge delta battle? I got munched so bad. Can't steal from or break that many damn dragons...


With a couple of rare exceptions, Thieves are generally useless for stealing anything except hearts, since most of the time the gear you'd steal is available the next time you go to the shop. IE the only reason you'd steal a bow in Dorter, is to use it on an archer, but after the Dorter battle, real bows become available. It just sort of seems pointless to steal gear.

As for Cid, I tend to bring him along, and then only pull him out when I know I'm going to need a fight over, NOW.

Well now, you steal from the archer and he's not an archer anymore, yeah? Snagging weapons from the strong guys helps a lot.

[Triaxx]

Which is why one of the first things I build for is a Mediator, so I can turn dragons to my team.

Yeah, that's true, though hitting them in the face really hard also makes them not a threat. :smallbiggrin:

[danzibr]

Perusing this thread makes me want to get this game on iOS after I beat FFVI.

Any thoughts on the iOS version? I've only played the PSX version.

[DigoDragon]

Is this the part where I feel awkward for almost never using a thief?

You don't have to be. Two abilities I use thieves for: Steal Heart and Steal JP. The latter is great when you don't want your levels too high for later encounters, but need a few more points to buy that last expensive class ability.



Yeah, I just murdered the hell out of them and left them to crystalize.

You can steal their weapons. Especially useful when the battle gives the enemy archers or a bunch of gun-wielding chemists. :smalltongue:

A few bosses have one or two nice equips that might make stealing worthwhile. I think Marquis Elmdor had the Genji stuff which is really rare. Took me a while, but I did strip him down to his skivvies in the second encounter at his castle.



with Orlandeau first, Agrias second and Beowulf third.

I love Agrias' abilities. Quick and cheap damage. Give her speed boosts and she's practically a ninja.



Yeah. Man, that first huge delta battle? I got munched so bad. Can't steal from or break that many damn dragons.

Status effects are my friend for that battle. Really, status effects are my friend in general. I'd be horribly murdered in many fights without bards, dancers, and calculators.

[Larkas]

I find that since I tend to fight more random battles and thus encounter more monsters than men, I end up not having any use for Meliadoul, who's entire skillset consists of anti-equipment users.

That's not the case in the PSP version. There's a mod for her abilities working on monsters in the PSX version too.


With a couple of rare exceptions, Thieves are generally useless for stealing anything except hearts, since most of the time the gear you'd steal is available the next time you go to the shop. IE the only reason you'd steal a bow in Dorter, is to use it on an archer, but after the Dorter battle, real bows become available. It just sort of seems pointless to steal gear.

I'll give you that it's not common, but it's not that rare too. The strongest gun in the game can only be obtained by stealing from a generic enemy (or inviting him, duh), and quite a few unavailable for buying, or extremely expensive, items can only be gotten by stealing too. It's not a bad ability, overall, though you'll generally know exactly when you'll need it.

Oh, huh. You played war of the lions I suppose? Dark knight wasn't a class in the original.

I played both quite extensively. That's why I can say with confidence that the PSP version much better than the PSX one. The only thing I miss from the PSX's is the spells'/abilities' quotes.

[SiuiS]

You don't have to be. Two abilities I use thieves for: Steal Heart and Steal JP. The latter is great when you don't want your levels too high for later encounters, but need a few more points to buy that last expensive class ability.


Yeah, those were handy. Steal hearts was my bane! I played as the cast from my old never-to-be-seen Webcomic setting, which meant my strongest cast members were female. That one boy thief destroyed my team! XD



A few bosses have one or two nice equips that might make stealing worthwhile. I think Marquis Elmdor had the Genji stuff which is really rare. Took me a while, but I did strip him down to his skivvies in the second encounter at his castle.


I think he's actually the only way to get the Genji Gear...



I love Agrias' abilities. Quick and cheap damage. Give her speed boosts and she's practically a ninja.


Agrias was blonde with sword skills, right? Meliadol was church inquisitor type chick, green hood, gilded armor?



Status effects are my friend for that battle. Really, status effects are my friend in general. I'd be horribly murdered in many fights without bards, dancers, and calculators.

I went in blind the first time and was overwhelmed by two or three of every monster I've ever wanted to capture. I died. I went back in prepared to deal with those monsters and died to a billion archers. That map was a nightmare XD



I played both quite extensively. That's why I can say with confidence that the PSP version much better than the PSX one. The only thing I miss from the PSX's is the spells'/abilities' quotes.

Yeah. I actually liked some of the more charming inconsistencies.

[Triaxx]

True. Does Steal JP work on your own team? I can't remember and I don't have a thief in my game yet.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'll give you that it's not common, but it's not that rare too. The strongest gun in the game can only be obtained by stealing from a generic enemy (or inviting him, duh), and quite a few unavailable for buying, or extremely expensive, items can only be gotten by stealing too. It's not a bad ability, overall, though you'll generally know exactly when you'll need it.

Yeah, having a thief along the whole time isn't necessary at all, but there are some really good weapons and equipment that you can only get by stealing them. And as somebody else mentioned, stealing (or breaking) a gun or a bow or a knight's sword will really ruin their day. Removing a good piece of armor from an enemy can really lower their hp.


I think he's actually the only way to get the Genji Gear...

Yeah, that's one of the best examples of equipment that you can only get by stealing (and getting them is such a pain because of how fast Elmdor is, since success of stealing is based on speed). I believe he also has the Masamune IIRC.


Agrias was blonde with sword skills, right? Meliadol was church inquisitor type chick, green hood, gilded armor?

Yes and yes. Agrias is a guest character in the opening battle at the windmill, and she joins your party for good fairly early on (Chapter 2, I think?). Meliadoul doesn't show up until much later in the game, which impacts her usefulness even more.

[DigoDragon]

Agrias was blonde with sword skills, right? Meliadol was church inquisitor type chick, green hood, gilded armor?

A quick Google search says you are correct. I really didn't use Meliadoul at all. My onl trouble with Agrias was that she seemed to have problems moving across the field from A to B. I think it was just me though.



True. Does Steal JP work on your own team?

I believe it does.



Yeah, that's one of the best examples of equipment that you can only get by stealing (and getting them is such a pain because of how fast Elmdor is, since success of stealing is based on speed). I believe he also has the Masamune IIRC.

You really have to prep for that fight. Break ability, a healer, and hopefully a bard with the Speed song. I'd quickly kill off the two girls and then surround Elmdoorto break his speed and strength to 1, while buffing my own members to increase the success rate. Still takes me a good 40 minutes to rob the dude.


Something I encountered once which amused me~
It was a mountainous map and I was accosted by a gang of chemists and archers. One of the enemy chemists started off stoned. XD Turns out he was equipped with a Stone Gun and the side effect of using one is you start off stoned. I had to unstone him to grab the gun off his hands. Was quite powerful, as long as you could block or heal that little side-effect.

[Gnoman]

A quick Google search says you are correct. I really didn't use Meliadoul at all. My onl trouble with Agrias was that she seemed to have problems moving across the field from A to B. I think it was just me though.



All of the Squire replacers have pretty low move stats, and it becomes even worse if you change her into a Knight. Best thing to do is get her Equip Sword from the Knight class and turn her into something with a nice Move and Speed stat.(Ninja is particularly nice because sword skills are Two Swords compatible.)

[Triaxx]

The downside however is that you can only use swords and not Knight Swords. Meaning you lose out on damage. On the other hand, the one up side to Agrias/Melia, is the ability to use a Chantage, and have the stronger Knight Swords in place of Excalibur.

Me I always liked to use a Samurai instead of a Ninja though. Less speed, but more armor. Plus an innate damage dealing/healing power. I think the PA was higher as well. I'd have to check that though.

[DigoDragon]

All of the Squire replacers have pretty low move stats, and it becomes even worse if you change her into a Knight.

Ah, so that's the secret. I generally would give her Excalibur to speed her up as auto-haste is boss (Sure Orlandu could overkill with Excalibur, but honestly he's Orlandu. He could kill you with his bare hands). :smallbiggrin:

[Beacon of Chaos]

Started playing again. Turns out the reason I was having such trouble was simply that I couldn't remember how to learn new skills and couldn't be bothered to watch the tutorials. :smallredface:

[ryuplaneswalker]

Of the specials, Meliadoul certainly wasn't a star, her moveset is not as flashy or cool as holy or temple knight, and nothing touches the brokeness that is sword saint. That said, she is special, and therefore superior, as she has swordskills, which as you pointed out, have ranged break options (not bad, but a generic can do that, archer/knight) however, hers are damage dealing (IIRC break skills don't damage) which means that you break and contribute to killing them at the same time, which is certainly a good advantage.

90% of Meliadoul's problem lies in when you get her.

If you got her in chapter 2 or 3 she would be awesome, however she joins the group AFTER Thunder God Cid who has all her skills and then some, I often paired Mustaio(Engineer) with Knight break skills, so that I could have ranged breaking early on.

Nothing helps mitigate strong enemy physical classes like removing their weaponry.

[onionbreath]

This is probably my favorite game ever. It had weird difficulty though. Easy most of the time but a few spots could just destroy you. Dorter, Gafgarion, Weigraf, the rooftop battle...
I also really enjoyed the PVP fights on GameFAQs back in the day.

[Triaxx]

Ugh, don't remind me about Wiegraf. I did a Random Generated Character challenge back in the day and got all the way up to there, and then couldn't get through him.

[KillianHawkeye]

My onl trouble with Agrias was that she seemed to have problems moving across the field from A to B. I think it was just me though.

That's funny. On my game, Agrias usually ended up being one of the few characters that used the Teleport move skill.

[DigoDragon]

Started playing again. Turns out the reason I was having such trouble was simply that I couldn't remember how to learn new skills and couldn't be bothered to watch the tutorials. :smallredface:

I know that problem! Had it myself when I last picked up the game to play after a long hiatus. :smallbiggrin:
After about a week it was like riding a bike. All came back to me and then some.



90% of Meliadoul's problem lies in when you get her.

I often paired Mustaio(Engineer) with Knight break skills

True and yes. If Meliadoul came onboard earlier when knight skills were useful to me, I might of used her more.

And Mustaio + Knight skills is a strong combo. The enemy can try and chase him all day, but I'd have the boy run-n-gun the entire fight like it's a John Woo film. :smallbiggrin:



That's funny. On my game, Agrias usually ended up being one of the few characters that used the Teleport move skill.

Believe me, when she finally learned teleport, I'd slap that ability on her like jam on toast. :smallbiggrin:
Teleport really is the only way to travel for me. Once I learn that it's pretty much a staple. I used to have a good knack for how far I could move with it.

[Seerow]

Ugh, don't remind me about Wiegraf. I did a Random Generated Character challenge back in the day and got all the way up to there, and then couldn't get through him.

Did the randomization also determine what skills you had available? Or just which skillsets?

Because if you know all skills within a skill set, I can't comprehend a randomized party bad enough to not be able to handle Wiegraf.

[Triaxx]

It randomly generated a class, and abilities. I had a Monk Ramza, with Sing, Critical Quick, Defend, and Any Ground. Unfortunately, trying to take Wiegraf one-on-one like that was a pain in the neck. Supposedly, there was a spot to stand he couldn't get you, but I could never find it.

[DigoDragon]

It randomly generated a class, and abilities. I had a Monk Ramza, with Sing, Critical Quick, Defend, and Any Ground.

I take it he was hitting you harder than you could heal yourself?

[Seerow]

It randomly generated a class, and abilities. I had a Monk Ramza, with Sing, Critical Quick, Defend, and Any Ground. Unfortunately, trying to take Wiegraf one-on-one like that was a pain in the neck. Supposedly, there was a spot to stand he couldn't get you, but I could never find it.

Okay yeah, Monk by itself should have made taking out Wiegraf trivial unless you were very poorly equipped. Especially with Critical Quick to get you an extra turn at low health? A couple resets maybe, but definitely way easier than doing it as True Calc or Mime, both of which are completed SCCs.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, I knew UltyX when he was doing the TrueCalcSCC.

It was in part because I didn't have EarthSlash, which is my typical go to attack for a monk. Plus being at neutral compat meant that I wasn't doing bonus damage.

[SiuiS]

Ah, so that's the secret. I generally would give her Excalibur to speed her up as auto-haste is boss (Sure Orlandu could overkill with Excalibur, but honestly he's Orlandu. He could kill you with his bare hands). :smallbiggrin:

I just went florentine with Excalibur and another holy sword (or sometimes excalipur or the frog sword or whatever).

Final Fantasy tactics did something very few games actually pull off. It have you a challenge the whole, but it still made you feel like a bad ass. You rol up, silent and steadfast, clad in armor ripped from a vampire king after putting down his demon bouncers. Osafune, the stone-citing sword, gleams in your hand, it's spirit roiling for honorable battle. The old war hero nicknames the thunder god nods to you, awaiting orders. Behind him, your team, raised from green thumb recruits to masters of their craft, summoning lost souls to fuel their magics, invoking the gods and faith to eek it flesh and destabilize any entropic magics wrought upon you and yours, dragons and more at your neck and call, tamed by the words and spirit of your mediator. The dragon mother Reis and her ancient lover follow you, and a lost soul ripped from his own world by Eldritch magic calls forth the power of a planet's congealed blood.

The enemy lines up. They think they are prepared. They are the elite, the best trained and equipped the for could spare. Their shields could turn aside a divig griffon and dragon's fire. Their swords, spears, honed to a lethal edge on hundreds of foes slain. Their armor is imbued with the ancient gods, the before ones who were beaten and driven from their land, their people murdered and their quiet rage waiting to be expressed. They think they are ready.

You simply choose your five companions for this siege, and smile.


I know that problem! Had it myself when I last picked up the game to play after a long hiatus. :smallbiggrin:
After about a week it was like riding a bike. All came back to me and then some.


I did that with final fantasy 1! I was like "wow it's weird there are trash and by the castle but whatever" and a week later my brother is playing and walks into a trash can and there's a town. Three days later we found out the inn is where you save the game ...

[DigoDragon]

I just went florentine with Excalibur and another holy sword (or sometimes excalipur or the frog sword or whatever).

Pretty much the closest you'll get to a god mode there. Not much survives that style. XD

[Gnoman]

I had Cid dual wielding Excaliburs once.

[FidgetySquirrel]

I think my favorite FFT experience, aside from finding out Beowulf's Drain Sword straight-up MURDERS Elidibs, would be when I played the endgame with a party of 3 ninjas and 2 lancers. Throw Item, Blade Grasp, and 97 brave all around. It. Was. Glorious.