Quenya (Tolkien's high elvish)

[InaVegt]

I'm currently trying to learn Quenya, the language made by tolkien as high elvish, and found how similar the pronouncation is to dutch. (The major differences are that dutch still has a couple of Schwas and the pronouncation of the U (and dipthongs using that vowel).) In case anyone is interested I'm learning the Noldorin dialect, as that's the dialect almost all sources use (and as such we know the most about). Anyway, anyone else here either speaking Quenya or trying to learn it?

[Shadow of the Sun]

Tolkien never completed the language- you have fragments, but anything that says it is a complete form of elvish is dodgy.

[InaVegt]

Tolkien never completed the language- you have fragments, but anything that says it is a complete form of elvish is dodgy.
It's the most complete form, I know it isn't complete but it's complete enough you can create artistic works in it. As the course says.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I've dabbled in Elvish.

[Turcano]

I'm currently trying to learn Quenya, the language made by tolkien as high elvish, and found how similar the pronouncation is to dutch. (The major differences are that dutch still has a couple of Schwas and the pronouncation of the U (and dipthongs using that vowel).) In case anyone is interested I'm learning the Noldorin dialect, as that's the dialect almost all sources use (and as such we know the most about). Anyway, anyone else here either speaking Quenya or trying to learn it?

That's funny, it's phonology reminds me more of Spanish than anything else. Also you need to be careful with your labels; "Noldorin" is actually a proto-Sindarin (in real life, not within the mythos).


Tolkien never completed the language- you have fragments, but anything that says it is a complete form of elvish is dodgy.

Most people who take this sort of thing seriously recognize that a complete Quenya language that comes directly from Tolkien is unrealistic, as it is more fragmentary than most people would like (it is the most complete of Tolkien's languages, on the other hand). However, some people have taken the time to reconstruct certain aspects of the language, which is almost always distinguished from this ideal standard; it's usually referred to as neo-Quenya (or "coirëa quenya," if you're really nerdy).

[Ishmael]

I tried to learn it a few years back, when I has just discovered the beauty that was the Silmarillion. I failed. I still keep a Quentya-English translator on my bookmarks, though.

[J_Muller]

One of my sister's friends learned that one summer because she was really bored.

[InaVegt]

That's funny, it's phonology reminds me more of Spanish than anything else. Also you need to be careful with your labels; "Noldorin" is actually a proto-Sindarin (in real life, not within the mythos).
Yes, however the Noldor spoke Quenya in the books, Noldorin Quenya to be precise (almost all Quenya we know is in fact Noldorin Quenya).

[Telonius]

There's a very good online resource over at Ardalambion (http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/). It's a collection of essays and word lists from over a dozen of Tolkien's invented languages and dialects. Their course in Quenya (http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/qcourse.htm)might help you a bit. alma!

EDIT: By the way... my own possible translation from "Naffarin."

O Naffarínos cutá vu navru cangor luttos ca vúna tiéranar, dana maga tíer ce vru encá vún' farta once ya merúta vúna maxt' amámen.

O (elves? bearers of light?), who sail together on the path of the moon, travelling forever on the bent path, on your way to the shores of paradise.

I think something like this would be very much in keeping with his later writings about Earendil, the White Ships, and the "hidden paths that run west of the moon, east of the sun."

[InaVegt]

There's a very good online resource over at Ardalambion (http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/). It's a collection of essays and word lists from over a dozen of Tolkien's invented languages and dialects. Their course in Quenya (http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/qcourse.htm)might help you a bit. alma!
That's the exact course I'm using, but thanks for pointing me there anyway.

[bosssmiley]

I've dabbled in Elvish.

Now wash your hands. :smallsmile:

I'm surprised that Quenya is so similar to Dutch. I thought Tolkein copypasta'ed Finnish to create it. :smallconfused:

[InaVegt]

Now wash your hands. :smallsmile:

I'm surprised that Quenya is so similar to Dutch. I thought Tolkein copypasta'ed Finnish to create it. :smallconfused:
Quenya has similar pronouncation to dutch, and as I heard so have the germanic languages of the group danish, finnish and swedish are in. But the vocabulary is nothing like it.

[Don Beegles]

There's a very good online resource over at Ardalambion (http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/). It's a collection of essays and word lists from over a dozen of Tolkien's invented languages and dialects. Their course in Quenya (http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/qcourse.htm)might help you a bit. alma!



That there is very nifty, Telonius. I'll have to look at it. Thanks.

[KuReshtin]

Quenya has similar pronouncation to dutch, and as I heard so have the germanic languages of the group danish, finnish and swedish are in. But the vocabulary is nothing like it.

Pardon the butting in on this, but Finnish is not in the same group of germanic languages as Swedish, Danish or Norwegian.
Finnish is more related to Romanian (or Bulgarian). Edit: Or Hungarian (see below). I stand corrected. I knew it was one of those languages down south.

The only Scandinavian languages where I would be inclined to compare the pronounciation with Dutch would be Danish or possibly Icelandic.

[Turcano]

Finnish is more related to Romanian (or Bulgarian).

Hungarian, actually. (Romanian is a Romance language, while Bulgarian is Slavic.)

[Dragonrider]

I wanted to learn both Quenya and Sindarin, but I didn't know how to access them, so instead I made my own rip-offs. Anel opaliel yas aremma. HAHAHA! The language in my sig is Quenya-substitute, and the phrase I just wrote is the Sindarin. Well, they were when I started them three years ago, but they've morphed and become an entity of their own.

[Dr._Weird]

I don't see the point of learning a fictional language. It's a lot of effort wasted, and all you're going to be able to do with it is show off to people who can't understand you.

[Turcano]

I don't see the point of learning a fictional language. It's a lot of effort wasted, and all you're going to be able to do with it is show off to people who can't understand you.

You... you do know that this is a forum highly populated with nerds, right?

[Don Beegles]

I don't see the point of learning a fictional language. It's a lot of effort wasted, and all you're going to be able to do with it is show off to people who can't understand you.

Maybe you really like Tolkien and want to do anything you can to immerse yourself in Middle-Earth or maybe you just want to show off. Myself, I love languages and so I wanted to learn Quenya because I've heard it'll be a challenge and that it sounds nice.

[FdL]

I don't see the point of learning a fictional language. It's a lot of effort wasted, and all you're going to be able to do with it is show off to people who can't understand you.

I was going to say the same. It's really a waste of time, no matter how you look at it. It even makes less sense than trying to create your own language. With these topics I always think of a quote of a song from the band Luna, which has a verse that goes "Don't waste your time learning Klingon / it ain't no use / escape while you can."

Besides, it's not really a language. A language is much more than that, and a language that is artificial, a literary creation and has no real history or actual speakers, doesn't qualify as a language. It's less than a dead language, it's non-existant.

[Lord_Reanicus]

Besides, it's not really a language. A language is much more than that, and a language that is artificial, a literary creation and has no real history or actual speakers, doesn't qualify as a language. It's less than a dead language, it's non-existant.Nonsense. A language has much to do with culture and history, that is true, but a language by definition is a systematic means of communicating by the use of sounds or conventional symbols.

Unlike many constructed languages, like Newspeak, Tolkien actually made up its own symbols for the language, the Tengwar symbols.

To have a language, you need words a defined syntax and structure and the symbols to use the language writtenly (most choose Latin for that), and even though it is not used by a nation or such, it is still fully a language and Tolkien's devotion to it can not be ignored. It is a language throughoutly.

And what he "wastes" his time with is his choice, I don't see the reason why you should criticise him. There are people who are actually linguists in this language, like in the Lord of the Rings movie, they consulted several linguists in Tolkien's Elven languages, who taught the actors to speak it fluently.

Furthermore, it is always fun to know a language someone else doesn't, a Cant of sort that you and your friends can converse with. Good fun!

[adanedhel9]

If learning/developing languages is your pastime, then let it be your pastime. Sure, you can't do much with it, but who says you have to do anything with a pastime? Other than pass time, that is.

Now, I've never really studied Quenya, but the appendix of The Return Of The King that discussed the languages really got me thinking... it got me seeing words as histories, sentences as patterns, and languages as constructs of culture as well as tools of communication. That appendix is one of the two things (the other being a math book that had examples of BASIC in the sidebars) that set me down the academic and professional road that I've been on for the past 9 years.

[Arang]

I think I heard somewhere, sometime, that Quenya is based on Finnish, so that might be a help. Than again, it might not.

I'd like to know it too, but there are no books or anything that I can find, and I've never been too good at languages.

[Trog]

The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-Earth (Paperback) by Ruth S. Noel is the book I have. It details each of the languages (or partial languages or whatever) that Tolkien invented.

This link seems rife with... er... other links and stuff too on this subject. http://www.elvish.org/

EDIT: @V So is posting here. Who are you kidding?

[FdL]

I still think it's a waste of time. Life is short, you know.

[Balesirion]

I have it firsthand from David Salo (the translator employed for the movies, I was at a talk of his at a library) that The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-Earth is inaccurate. I have the book myself.

I highly reccommend Ardalambion for learning Quenya, and David Salo's A Gateway to Sindarin Elvish for Sindarin.

Tolkien explicitly stated that Quenya is based on Finnish and Sindarin on Welsh.

Life isn't that short, and things like this enrich your life while you have it. This is the wrong place for telling people that geeky things are a waste of time.

[FdL]

I see. I apologize.

[Amotis]

*poke* Life is short. Like Fdl. (Yes, it was an avatar crack. Sue me.)

[FdL]

*In Character*: "Oh, 'cause you Elves are so High!"

(get it? High Elves? I can beat you to worst joke :D)