[3.5] Help with a Gestalt Warmage build!

[lonewulf]

I am about to be playing in a campaign that is intended for 6 players with a group of only 3 people. The DM is letting us Gestalt to keep us from being slaughtered and, even better, will let us Prestige on both sides! The restrictions on this are that both sides must Prestige at the same time and for the same number of levels to keep it from being (overly) complicated. One of the other members is playing a Cleric/Fighter and the other hasn't fully decided but knows he will be playing either a Rogue or Bard on one side. There are many things that the DM has not yet decided on (like determining our stats) but we will be starting at level 1. This topic is mostly for brainstorming ideas that I can play off of once the DM makes up his mind on everything. So any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. All 3.5 books are allowed.

I like the idea of being a Magic Missile spammer but don't want that to be my only way of dealing with things. I'm thinking of going Wizard/Warmage for 10 levels followed by 5 levels of Argent Savant/Force Missile Mage. I have no idea what to do for levels 16-20. Any ideas of class combination that would be better or suggested Feat selections or Races (i'm thinking Human) or really any suggestions what-so-ever will earn you my undying love.

Thanks all!

[aleucard]

Archmage/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil would probably do wonders for your survivability, and since you're trying to do the job of a party twice as large as yours, a little overpowered-ness is understandable. Use your Warmage side for your blasty stuff and Evocation (few things in that school for Wizards that a Warmage can't use), and use your Wizard side for the more esoteric things (since Warmage has most in-combat things covered, you have much more freedom to focus on non-offensive spells). Ask your DM if the Warmage's ability to wear armor and cast will cross over; if yes, then you have much less to worry about for defenses, and you have one more thing you can attach enchantments to. If not, then either get the feat that lets you wear things without penalty or skip it, it's not that mandatory anyway. Probably one of your best options would be to get the Energy Substitution/Admixture feats for an element that isn't Fire or Ice, so you have a good chance of affecting anything at any given moment. Acid's a good pick (damages objects as well as opponents), but I'll leave it to you. All in all, though, you need to look at the handbooks for Warmage and Wizard. A good list of handbooks would be here; http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=399.0

[lonewulf]

Thanks for the advice and the link! And yes, the DM is allowing the Armored Mage class feature to apply to all my spellcasting, not just on the Warmage side (but my Warmage Edge still only applies to Warmage spells).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A theme is good, and while Magic Missile may look like a powerful choice, it's actually extremely (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) terrible (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#broochofShielding) to base a character around. I'd recommend adapting Rainbow Servant (CD) to Phoenix Servant and use that as a theme instead. It would grant the Fire and Renewal domains instead of Air and Law, the wings would only change in appearance, you would probably replace Detect Chaos with Detect Magic and Detect Thoughts with either See Invisibility or Remove Fear, which are standard spell-like abilities of the Phoenix with relatively equal power to what they would replace.

For the two-prestige-classes-at-once, I'm not sure how that's going to work out. Assuming Rainbow Servant gets 6/10 spellcasting as the table indicates and not 10/10 spellcasting as the text-enforced RAW would have it, you would ideally want a partial-progression prestige class with decent BAB and HD (and skills) that you can start taking as early as Rainbow Servant and that gets spellcasting at the 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th class levels. Unfortunately, no such prestige class exists, for the following reason:

Make your character an Illumian, start with the Krau sigil and at least one flaw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (Hot-Blooded (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30), you take increased damage from cold effects and need Endure Elements (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/endureElements.htm) or a Crystal of Adaptation in MIC). Start with the feats Improved Sigil: Krau and Versatile Spellcaster (RotD). That allows you to cast a 1st level spell as a 2nd level spell, which gives you knowledge of every 2nd level spell on the Warmage list, which you can spend two 1st level spell slots to cast with Versatile Spellcaster, which allows you to apply Improved Sigil: Krau to a new spell, which will be a 2nd level spell you know and it will count as a 3rd level spell whenever you cast it. Include finding the Temple of the Phoenix or similar in your character's backstory and you can go Warmage 1/ Phoenix Servant 10// whatever.

The only other prestige classes you can start taking that early are the racial paragon classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm), but there's no Illumian Paragon. Illumians are Humanoid (Human) so you could technically take Human Paragon, but it's not really worth it on this build, plus it's only three levels and you'll be taking ten levels in Phoenix Servant. Just don't combine prestige classes at any character level, and you shouldn't need to take even levels of two prestige classes together anyway.

I'd go something like the following, using two flaws total:
1. Warmage 1// Crusader 1
2. Warmage 2// Phoenix Servant 1
3. Crusader 2// Phoenix Servant 2
4. Crusader 3// Phoenix Servant 3
5. Warmage 3// Phoenix Servant 4
6. Crusader 4// Phoenix Servant 5
7. Crusader 5// Phoenix Servant 6
8. Warmage 4// Phoenix Servant 7
9. Crusader 6// Phoenix Servant 8
10. Crusader 7// Phoenix Servant 9
11. Warmage 5// Phoenix Servant 10
12. Warmage 6// Jade Phoenix Mage 1
13. Crusader 8// Jade Phoenix Mage 2
14. Crusader 9// Jade Phoenix Mage 3
15. Crusader 10// Jade Phoenix Mage 4
16. Warmage 7// Jade Phoenix Mage 5
17. Crusader 11// Jade Phoenix Mage 6
18. Crusader 12// Jade Phoenix Mage 7
19. Crusader 13// Jade Phoenix Mage 8
20. Crusader 14// Jade Phoenix Mage 9

That gets 20th level Warmage spellcasting, +20 BAB if not using fractional BAB, an initiator level of 18 at 20th for 9th level maneuvers/stances, four base skill points/level for each Crusader level and two base skill points/level for the other six levels, 14d10+6d6 HD, and you'll be extremely capable in both physical combat and spellcasting at every character level.

[lonewulf]

I'm pretty set on using the 'Magic Missile' theme but I like that character idea you posted. I've got it copy/pasted into a doc cuz i may play something like that in a future campaign, so thanks for the suggestion!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I would advise against combining Force Missile Mage and Argent Savant, as neither progresses your spellcasting at their 1st level. I'd also advise against combining two primary spellcasting classes, you often want to be able to fill multiple roles or have a class with active abilities and one with passive abilities. There's no reason to delay Force Missile Mage until you can qualify for Argent Savant, just start taking it as early as possible and get Argent Savant afterward, don't bother taking two prestige classes at once.

Try something like the following, taking Font of Inspiration (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606) at least three times:
1. Factotum 1// Warmage 1
2. Factotum 2// Warmage 2
3. Factotum 3// Warmage 3
4. Factotum 4// Warmage 4
5. Factotum 5// Warmage 5
6. Factotum 6// Mindbender 1
7. Warmage 6// Force Missile Mage 1
8. Factotum 7// Force Missile Mage 2
9. Factotum 8// Force Missile Mage 3
10. Factotum 9// Force Missile Mage 4
11. Factotum 10// Force Missile Mage 5
12. Warmage 7// Argent Savant 1
13. Factotum 11// Argent Savant 2
14. Factotum 12// Argent Savant 3
15. Factotum 13// Argent Savant 4
16. Factotum 14// Argent Savant 5
17. Factotum 15// Paragnostic Apostle 1
18. Factotum 16// Paragnostic Apostle 2
19. Factotum 17// Paragnostic Apostle 3
20. Factotum 18// Paragnostic Apostle 4

That gets full Warmage spellcasting, tons of skill points, plenty of utility spells via Factotum, access to just about every class feature in the game, action economy abuse with Cunning Surge, and decent HD and BAB.

[lonewulf]

Now THAT I like the sound of! I've always wanted to play a Factotum but it never occurred to me to use it in this build. Sounds fun XD

[aleucard]

The fact that Warmage is a frontline blaster and Factotum has sneak attacks (albeit in a limited fashion) also gives you a boost for damage, even with your weaker spells. If you really want to turn into a living weapon, though, Rogue or something else with full Sneak Attack progression would probably be better, as well as looking into ways to extend the range you can make those attacks from. You're never going to be all that beefy, so keeping out of melee range should be a high priority. There's several PrC's that you can take that'll boost both casting and sneak attacks, too. The fact that said damage is the same element as whatever spell you use is a bonus, as is most of them being Touch (check with your DM on the validity of this before trying, though!).