Omniskill

[Angelalex242]

How would it affect game balance if all characters had every class skill at max ranks, but was completely unable to take cross class skills?

I'd been theorizing about this for a while.

Included with 'omniskill' is one craft and one profession for every character. Gotta have a dayjob. (except those who for some reason do not have craft and/or profession as class skills.

In the event of multi or prestige classing, the skills you get that don't stack start at 4 if you didn't have them already, and grow by one point for every level you take in the new class. Max ranks is still class level +3 as usual.

Yes, Bards and Wizards get 'Knowledge:Everything', taken individually, if only for the synergy bonuses. It also includes speak language where applicable to the class.

How does the extra versatility change the game, if it does at all?

[Zanos]

First thing I thought of was that Factotum would be hilarious to play.

That said I don't think skills ever really come close to accomplishing what many spells could do. I highly doubt it will break anything except maybe with the few skills that are already broken like UMD, Lucid Dreaming, or Diplomacy. Some mundane classes are marginally improved, but the worst ones(like fighters) don't have good class skills anyway.

Oh, and intelligence is a dumpstat for everyone that doesn't cast off of it, so expect to see some stupid characters.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Balance probably isn't hurt that much. The bigger issue, I think, is the loss of customization. You've made every rogue the same, every barbarian, every bard*. Not to mention PrCs become a lot harder to qualify for. I'd amend the rule to allow for a handful of cross-class skills, just to help make characters more distinct. (Maybe Int mod?)

*Some hyperbole here.

[Angelalex242]

I came up with the idea because I wanted to see what PCs would do with the skills nobody ever takes. Climb, Jump, Swim, Use Rope, etc.

And what they might do with profession and craft skills.

I'm also foreseeing a funny situation in which the Paladin has better concentration checks then the wizard, who knows way more about the Paladin AND the Cleric's own religion then they do.

[Sir Chuckles]

I take a dip into Expert, that's what happens.

[Angelalex242]

You'd still only have those chosen skills at 4 ranks. Of course, they can be ANY skills, but...

UMD with 4 ranks isn't exactly game breaking.

[TuggyNE]

How would it affect game balance if all characters had every class skill at max ranks, but was completely unable to take cross class skills?

I'd been theorizing about this for a while.

Included with 'omniskill' is one craft and one profession for every character. Gotta have a dayjob. (except those who for some reason do not have craft and/or profession as class skills.

In the event of multi or prestige classing, the skills you get that don't stack start at 4 if you didn't have them already, and grow by one point for every level you take in the new class. Max ranks is still class level +3 as usual.

Yes, Bards and Wizards get 'Knowledge:Everything', taken individually, if only for the synergy bonuses. It also includes speak language where applicable to the class.

How does the extra versatility change the game, if it does at all?

The extra versatility itself doesn't change much. However, there are downsides to this, that do: Spot, Listen, maybe UMD are important skills that a lot of characters want, even cross-class, but even dipping is no longer effective. I'd suggesting working out a way to give two skill points per level, possibly at the cost of two or three class skills of choice, to be spent however the character desires per usual rules.

[Alex12]

Factotum and Savant would be hilarious. "I know ALL THE THINGS!"

As for the balance, maybe make it so the Skill Focus feats make the associated skill a class skill?

[TuggyNE]

As for the balance, maybe make it so the Skill Focus feats make the associated skill a class skill?

That would make them surprisingly useful. I support this.

[Angelalex242]

Noted. Skill focus, or a new feat 'Extra Skill' whichever makes the skill a class skill (which automatically goes up to your character level +3, as it would always be a class skill for you, no matter your class. A feat's a pretty heavy price to pay, after all.)

Sometimes, I also consider what would happen if Fighters had a similar 'Omnifeat' (for the PHB only).

You get all fighter bonus feats your prereqs qualify you for.

At least then the Fighter gets perfect variety as a class feature. Including EWP everything, Weapon Focus/Spec/G Focus/G Spec/Improved crit everything, and so on.

All I'm worried about is over frontloading it. But if we're not gonna give the poor fighter class features, he should at least have pretty much every feat there is. Then he can switch from master archer to master cavalry to master swordsman to master two weapon wielder, and can do it with any weapon he picks up, using any trick in the book.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Factotum and Savant would be hilarious. "I know ALL THE THINGS!"

As for the balance, maybe make it so the Skill Focus feats make the associated skill a class skill?


That would make them surprisingly useful. I support this.

On that vein I've considered making the +2/+2 feats (alertness, stealthy, etc) all give the skills they boost as class skills.

[Red Fel]

Remember also that Martial Study gives you a permanent class skill. And they're all practical ones - Tumble, Hide, Concentration, etc. Useful.

So, basically, under this system, you could take Martial Study, gain a maneuver and automatically gain max ranks in a useful skill.

Do like.

[Doc_Maynot]

Noted. Skill focus, or a new feat 'Extra Skill' whichever makes the skill a class skill (which automatically goes up to your character level +3, as it would always be a class skill for you, no matter your class. A feat's a pretty heavy price to pay, after all.)

Sometimes, I also consider what would happen if Fighters had a similar 'Omnifeat' (for the PHB only).

You get all fighter bonus feats your prereqs qualify you for.

At least then the Fighter gets perfect variety as a class feature. Including EWP everything, Weapon Focus/Spec/G Focus/G Spec/Improved crit everything, and so on.

All I'm worried about is over frontloading it. But if we're not gonna give the poor fighter class features, he should at least have pretty much every feat there is. Then he can switch from master archer to master cavalry to master swordsman to master two weapon wielder, and can do it with any weapon he picks up, using any trick in the book.

I think Crumudgeon did something similar with his Fighter Bonus Feat Tree idea.

[Gildedragon]

How does this interact if you got speak language as a class skill
Also this borks in favor of factotums kinda hilariously

[Angelalex242]

Factotums only gain as much from it as skills are powerful. And they don't really gain significantly more then rogues or bards.

That is, I don't think Omniskill will get Factotum up a tier on the list.

If you get speak language, then you get 4 languages at level 1, and another language every level after that. Yes, eventually you'll speak everything.

[Alex12]

Factotums only gain as much from it as skills are powerful. And they don't really gain significantly more then rogues or bards.

That is, I don't think Omniskill will get Factotum up a tier on the list.

If you get speak language, then you get 4 languages at level 1, and another language every level after that. Yes, eventually you'll speak everything.

You won't run out of languages. D&D has a LOT of languages. More than 80, IIRC (it came up with one of my friend's characters)

[Amphetryon]

Balance probably isn't hurt that much. The bigger issue, I think, is the loss of customization. You've made every rogue the same, every barbarian, every bard*. Not to mention PrCs become a lot harder to qualify for. I'd amend the rule to allow for a handful of cross-class skills, just to help make characters more distinct. (Maybe Int mod?)

*Some hyperbole here.

This is what I came here to say.

[Gemini476]

Hmm. That's a pretty good question, actually.
Personally I might prefer something more like "X+INT class skills maxed out, all other skills at cross-class maximum." It would certainly help make the less skilful classes more generally competent.

Also, if you want to make your Rogue or whatever different from everyone else's then I guess you'll need to rely on feats and ACFs. Which isn't that bad an idea, really, since most Rogues were going to max the same skills regardless.

[ahenobarbi]

I came up with the idea because I wanted to see what PCs would do with the skills nobody ever takes. Climb, Jump, Swim, Use Rope, etc.

How about automatically maxing only "Climb, Jump, Swim, Use Rope etc." (if they're on character's class skill list) and letting them spend skill points as usual?

This allows some customization, gives your players chance to use those skills, doens't mess with PrC requirements and works slightly in favor of weaker classes (they tend to have those skills).

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hmm. That's a pretty good question, actually.
Personally I might prefer something more like "X+INT class skills maxed out, all other skills at cross-class maximum." It would certainly help make the less skilful classes more generally competent.
I like that, actually. Or maybe all class skills at max, and X+Int cross-class skills at the cross-class max.

[Angelalex242]

X+Int cross class skills seems fair. Makes int less of a dump stat, particularly since the effect is multiplied rather well.

[Hellwyrm]

A system I've been toying with that is similar in some respects to this idea is that all classes get (X+int)x2 skill 'points', where 1 point makes a class skill automatically have max cross class ranks, 2 points makes a class skill have max ranks, 2 points in a cross class skill makes it have max cross class ranks, and 3/4 points in a cross class skill makes it function like a max rank class skill.

I was also considering including the ability to make non-class skills also available for a prohibitive point cost if people really desired.