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View Full Version : DM Help How to (elegantly) have an NPC spit out a plot point before he dies



Teapot Salty
2014-05-16, 10:38 PM
Hey guys. So for a game I just ran, one of the crucial points was that an enemy would beg for mercy and inadvertently mention the name of his secret group and thus uncover a larger plot. Problem was, he was knocked unconscious before he could spit out the point, and the party was about to kill him, and he had just gone in the initiative order. So how do I get this point out? What is the most elegant manner in which to do it? Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

DM Nate
2014-05-16, 10:49 PM
Have him carry an item that connects him to the group. A signed letter, a signet ring, etc.

The Glyphstone
2014-05-16, 11:04 PM
Agreed. You cannot count on your NPCs being alive to deliver their plot points. You can always count on your players looting the bodies afterwards.

Gildedragon
2014-05-17, 01:27 AM
But if you got scrupulous players... Cause it's happened to me, PCs that refuse to defile the dead and steal from them.
Hmm...
Note falls from the pocket as they are readying to burry the body.
BBEG supplies minions with Instazombie amulets. If the dead guy comes to life after being decapitated they WILL look for a why and how
Ghost rises from the grave wailing about an unfinished task
Npc's coworker comes a-looking

ArendK
2014-05-17, 03:33 AM
Hey guys. So for a game I just ran, one of the crucial points was that an enemy would beg for mercy and inadvertently mention the name of his secret group and thus uncover a larger plot. Problem was, he was knocked unconscious before he could spit out the point, and the party was about to kill him, and he had just gone in the initiative order. So how do I get this point out? What is the most elegant manner in which to do it? Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

Yeah...one thing I've learned in all my years of gaming is to never expect the party to do what you want; any plan/plot requires a high degree of flexibility for any development. Depending on a specific NPC to be alive, much less in a given state, is a risk in an of itself.

DM Nate
2014-05-17, 04:42 AM
I just assume all NPCs will get clothes-lined once they walk into a room, friendly or no. If I intend for the NPC to survive the encounter, I roll stats for them (just in case) that are about 2x the CR the group can handle. :smallwink:

Erik Vale
2014-05-17, 04:50 AM
How many times has the NPC died anyway?

Jay R
2014-05-17, 09:40 AM
If he's dying, and needs to say something, then he successfully says it.

Don't let the rules screw up the game.

graymagiker
2014-05-17, 10:24 AM
What Jay R said!


As you stand over the [description] body with your weapon in hand, suddenly light returns to his eyes as they flash open for a fleeting moment. The man coughs up blood, but doesn't get it all out of his mouth before half uttering and half gurgling: "My death only furthers the goals of [organization name], you will" he pauses as more blood oozes from his mouth "you will see." With that his eyes close and the body once again lies unconscious, but not dead, before you. [character name] has the initiative, what do they do?

Slipperychicken
2014-05-17, 10:44 AM
Yeah, just give him a note. Maybe held in his hand. Unless they're actively trying to derail the plot, you can typically count on them looting bodies and reading notes.

Prince Raven
2014-05-18, 11:03 AM
All my plot points are delivered through friendly NPCs, overheard conversations, or items they loot from the inevatible bodies of enemies they didn't think about interrogating until after brutally murdering them.

Of course, in the last instance there is always more they could have learned if they didn't go full murderhobo.

nedz
2014-05-18, 02:58 PM
Of course, in the last instance there is always more they could have learned if they didn't go full murderhobo.

But if they have gone Full Murder Hobo on your friendly, helpful (now dead) NPC ... ?

You could just have him blurt out half the clue before he croaks, and then let the PCs worry about the other half.
Speak with Dead is quite common.

graymagiker
2014-05-18, 03:46 PM
My players, once they have access to the spell, almost always kill first and speak with dead latter.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-05-18, 04:48 PM
Let blood rain from the sky so that it forms letters on the floor, spelling out the name of the group.

Prince Raven
2014-05-19, 12:00 AM
But if they have gone Full Murder Hobo on your friendly, helpful (now dead) NPC ... ?

My players don't kill friendly, helpful NPCs.

nedz
2014-05-19, 01:00 AM
My players don't kill friendly, helpful NPCs.

You're lucky. Normally it happens when they stealth up and take them down before they get to open their mouths, or else just get charged down or hit by some BC ...

HammeredWharf
2014-05-19, 04:12 AM
I wouldn't encourage murderhoboing. If your PCs kill someone they shouldn't have killed, there should be consequences, unless that someone is of no importance. So, friendly, helpful NPCs should be safe after you deny your players access to magic mart a couple of times because Organization X doesn't like them anymore.

Now, since this topic was about an enemy the players were supposed to fight and not a friendly, helpful NPC, you've got a couple of options:

1) Give him some extra HP. Your players don't know how tough this guy is, so letting him live six seconds more shouldn't be a big deal.
2) Copy-paste him into another NPC. This time, make it clear they're not supposed to kill that NPC right away. Another NPCs could say the previous guy had some info and tell PCs what they did wrong, etc.
3) The aforementioned letter trick, which may or may not work depending on your players' attention span.
4) Make it clear the NPC had the info and steer the players towards Speak With Dead and such spells.
5) If the campaign is of high enough level, the players could spy on the dead NPC with Hindsight.

BWR
2014-05-19, 06:23 AM
unconscious doesn't have to mean unconscious.
Just because the rules say someone is unable to talk coherently or act in any meaningful way doesn't mean they are out cold like a lump of meat.
They can be merely knocked silly, allowing them to mutter and mumble things and unsuccessfully try to move.
Just because someone is at -1 and dropping fast doesn't mean they have to lie still; they can scream in pain and panic, beg for mercy, trying desperately to hold their guts from falling out, shout out any old thing they think might help them survive. They won't be rational and won't exactly be responsive to outside aid in this situation (meaning you can't interrogate them before helping them out) but they might let slip a name or a phrase that gives a clue.

Jay R
2014-05-19, 07:39 AM
This problem was solved in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The man with the important clue was dying in a cave alone, so he wrote his last words on the wall:

"Here may be found the last words of Joseph of Aramathia. He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the Holy Grail in the Castle of Aaauuuggghhh... "

DigoDragon
2014-05-19, 08:20 AM
Agreed. You cannot count on your NPCs being alive to deliver their plot points. You can always count on your players looting the bodies afterwards.

True. Oh so very true.

One time I did catch my PCs in a great 'gotcha' trap. The party killed a courier that worked for the BBEG. He was delivering important instructions meant for the BBEG's 3rd in command to meet up with the 2nd in command. The trap was that the courier had two sets of instructions pointing to two different meeting spots. So the PCs now had to figure out which instruction was the real one and since they already killed the courier (and the party had no way to speak with dead at the time) they started to realize that maybe... just maybe... killing everything might not be the best 'Plan A'. :smallbiggrin:

DM Nate
2014-05-19, 08:27 AM
In one of my one-shots, I had a goblin chieftan carrying a staff that used a command word, but the party fireballed him before finding out what it was. They also decided not to immediately blast every goblin they saw after that.