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View Full Version : Pathfinder Summoner Prestige Class - FF Based, but with a new twist



Gemini Lupus
2014-05-17, 02:11 AM
So I've been searching through the forums and interwebs to see what all there is regarding summoning in Dungeons and Dragons/Pathfinder. I've always been a huge fan of the final fantasy style summoning and have been trying for years to find or come up with a suitable adaptation to the 3.x realm of tabletop role playing. The Pathfinder class Summoner does an excellent job of emulating FFX style summoning, bu with only a single summoned creature. I've seen the other adaptations, which are very good, especially the one done by Viladin and his FFd20 project, but I'm
still not quite satisfied. So, after talking with a friend, I think I've finally come up with a Summoner prestige class that I'm satisfied with. It takes inspiration from Final Fantasy, but goes its own way.

It is by no means complete, but here's what I've got so far:

HD: either d6 or d8, haven't decided yet.
Skill points: 2+Int Modifier
Class Skills: Probably the same as a Wizard.

Level|Feature
1 | Spellcasting, Summoning Pact
2 | Spells of the Aeons
3 | Aeon Protection I
4 | Aspect of the Aeons 3/day
5 | Dead Level - Need to fix this...
6 | Aspect of the Aeons 4/day, Aeon Protection II
7 | Summon Aeon
8 | Aspect of the Aeons 5/day
9 | Aeon Protection III
10 | Grand Summon

Saves: Fort, Will: Good; Ref: Poor
BAB: 3/4

Prerequisites: Ability to cast 4th level spells, Knowledge (Arcana) 8 ranks, Great Fortitude, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Devotion to Aeons as personal deities, Must make a Pact with an Aeon to take first level in Summoner class.

Class Features
Spellcasting: At Summoner casts spells from the Summoner spell list, which has several base spells but is modified by their Aeon Pacts, which add spells to their spell list. They cast spells base on the table: Summoner Spells per day. They know every spell on their spell list and cast them spontaneously, as a Sorcerer or Bard. Summoner spells are considered Arcane for prerequisites towards other spellcasting prestige classes.
Anti-Theurge Clause: This class may not be progressed as a spellcasting class for the Mystic Theurge Prestige Class or any class that progresses two spellcasting classes.

Creator's Reasoning: While this class might seem well suited towards Divine spellcasting, I have categorized it as Arcane. The reason being, even though a Summoner worships the Pantheon of the Aeons, their power comes from making Pacts with them, which thematically fits as being more Arcane. I considered leaving this ambiguous, but I decided that clarification was the better way to go. As always, a GM is more than welcome to change the categorization to Divine, if s/he so chooses.

Summoning Pact: At first level, the Summoner is able to make contact with an Aeon and challenge it. If the Summoner and their party defeats the Aeon, the Summoner may make a pact with it to tap into its power. Each Pact adds to the Summoner's power and provides benefits based on the Summoner's level. A Summoner may have pacts with a number of Aeons equal to 3+Summoner level.

Spells of the Aeons: At second level, the Summoner begins tapping into the power of the Aeons with which they have made pacts. They gain spells based upon their Aeons, with each successive Aeon adding new spells to their spell list. Each Aeon grants one spell of each spell level, which is useable once they reach the appropriate Summoner level: level one spells at level 2, level two spells a level 3, etc. These spells may be used according to the chart: Summoner Spells per Day

Aeon Protection: at third level, the Aeons begin to develop a particular connection with the Summoner and begin lending more power to protect them. Each Aeon provides different protections. At sixth and ninth levels, the next tier of protection is granted.

Aspect of the Aeons: At fourth level, a Summoner is able to draw upon more of an Aeon's power and summon an aspect of the Aeon into the body of the Summoner, who takes on particular powers based upon the Aeon summoned. This ability is useable 3/day at level four, 4/day at level six, 5/day at level 8, and 6/day at level 10.

Summon Aeon: At seventh level, a Summoner is finally able to summon an Avatar of an Aeon itself to the Material Plane. The Aeon acts as any other summoned monster, but the strain of the summoning forces the Summoner to focus on keeping the Aeon on the Material Plane, thus they cannot act while an Aeon is present. There is a lifelink between the Aeon and Summoner, so any damage done to the Summoner during this time is transferred to the Aeon instead. An Aeon may be dismissed at any time by the Summoner, who may resume action the following turn. This ability may be used 3/day.

Grand Summon: At tenth level, a Summoner may summon an Aeon and keep them on the Material Plane without focusing, allowing the Summoner to act while an Aeon is present. This is the culmination of a Summoner's training and represents a Summoner's dedication to their path and the Aeons.

Aeons: Carbuncle, Ifrit, Shiva, Ixion or Ramuh...can't decide, Leviathan, Titan, Garuda, Odin, Alexander, Fenrir, Anima, Bahamut, Phoenix. So we have a representative from the eight elements: fire, ice, lightning, water, earth, air, dark, and light; I'm interpreting Carbuncle as a Fey and will probably have some sort of buffing function; Anima is an aspect of death and will probably be necromantic in nature; Fenrir focuses on non-elemntal damage and will probably be a debuffer; Bahamut is obviously associated with Dragons but typically is non-elemental, so I still have to figure out what his function will be; and Phoenix is fire and resurrection based, so will probably function as a healing Aeon.

Note: I know that the class requires Spellcasting but does not progress previous Spellcasting, what do y'all think of this?

There's obviously much to be done still, I still need to complete the list of potential Aeons to Pact with, come up with a base spell list, a spell list for each of the Aeons (probably going to adapt Cleric Domains, we shall see), determine the protective powers of each Aeon and how to make it not OP, figure out how Aspect of the Aeon will work, and create stats for the Aeons themselves for when they are summoned.

I'd also like to come up with some sort of ability or instance where the Aeons' signature abilities can be implemented, Diamond Dust for Shiva, Hellfire for Ifrit, Mega Flare for Bahamut, etc.

So what do y'all think? Do you like what I've come up with? I know it's not completely balanced, but it's a first draft, and what suggestions do you have for fleshing this out further?

Edit 1: Added a psuedo-table of class features.
Edit 2: Added list of Aeons and added prerequisites to qualify for Summoner
Edit 3: Added Anti-Theurge Clause and categorized spellcasting as Arcane, as well as reasoning behind it

Loek
2014-05-17, 04:28 AM
The idea is nice, but without details on the aeon's it's hard to see what it'll turn out to be.

Increased HD, saves and BAB over wizard seems... well it's not a problem, if there's fluff to back it up... otherwise it's just increasing because you want it to be better.



Summon Monster: At first level and every level after, the summoner gains Summon Monster I and subsequent SM spells useable as spell-like abilities 3/day.

So by 9th level (min character level 14) you'd be casting Summon Monster 9 3/day... yea... not a fan (especially not since this formulation also gives you access to summon monster 10 at level 10...)

My suggestion: limit it somewhat, either by allowing lower level summonings, start the class at higher level and/or lowering the amount of times per day you can use the higher level summonings.



Spellcasting: At Summoner casts spells from the Summoner spell list, which has several base spells but is modified by their Aeon Pacts, which add spells to their spell list. They cast spells base on the table: Summoner Spells per day. They know every spell on their spell list and cast them spontaneously, as a Sorcerer or Bard.

Please tell this won't be based on a "ur-priest" like progression that gives 9th level spells? 0-6 is probably better (or maybe do something like the Nar demonbinder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030502a&page=2)).


Beyond that, I'd like to see the final class (next step would be a good layout and a table to give an overview.... before going into the Aeons too much I think)


EDIT: Maybe do the summon monsters like a cleric's domain spells, instead of SLAs? That would put a limit on the level you gain in one go.

Gemini Lupus
2014-05-17, 09:16 AM
The idea is nice, but without details on the aeon's it's hard to see what it'll turn out to be.

Increased HD, saves and BAB over wizard seems... well it's not a problem, if there's fluff to back it up... otherwise it's just increasing because you want it to be better.


I do have fluff to back it up. In my mind, being a summoner is a difficult job and would be very straining both mentally and physically, hence the good fort saves. The HD I'm still not sure about and I think I like them at 3/4 BAB b/c it kind of outs them on par with Clerics and Druids.


So by 9th level (min character level 14) you'd be casting Summon Monster 9 3/day... yea... not a fan (especially not since this formulation also gives you access to summon monster 10 at level 10...)

My suggestion: limit it somewhat, either by allowing lower level summonings, start the class at higher level and/or lowering the amount of times per day you can use the higher level summonings.

Please tell this won't be based on a "ur-priest" like progression that gives 9th level spells? 0-6 is probably better (or maybe do something like the Nar demonbinder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030502a&page=2)).

Beyond that, I'd like to see the final class (next step would be a good layout and a table to give an overview.... before going into the Aeons too much I think)

Well, b/c of the skill rank prereq, a character can only take the class as early as 7th level, so it would be 15th level when they access SMIX, two levels before normal, which I don't think is too bad, but b/c I am intending it as an Ur Priest or Rainbow Servant type spell progression, it will probably be better by having the minimum level raised to 9...

Also, when I gave the SM spells, I don't think I was intending to give them their own spell list, but now that I am, I may just make it part of the regular spell list.

As to the layout, I made this post while on my phone in bed last night so...yeah lol. Once I am on my computer I will work on the table.

Anyhow, thank you so much for the feedback! It has been immensely helpful!

Loek
2014-05-17, 09:51 AM
glad to be of service, still curious to see how it'll turn out.

Anyhow, I feel obliged to kick the tires on more time before waiting to see how it turns out.


Prerequisites: Ability to cast 3rd level spells, Knowledge (Arcana) 6 ranks

3rd level spells are available at level 5.

Knowledge arcana 6 ranks is available at level 3. (assuming class skill, which I think it is for all classes that grant arcane casting)

So you'd be able to take it at level 6, not 7 as you say (not a big difference, but still...)


And finally... ur-priest style progression... for me that screams un-balanced unless there is a massive downside next to it (and not other increases, as this class has planned). Increasing the level at which you can enter is a good idea. But still... it will be a hard sell for me.


Btw, if you want the class to reflect "physically strenuous" work, maybe add one of the fortitude increasing feats as a requirement (making it harder to get in and dialing down the "strong points" of the class a bit).


Just remember, just because it's awesome doesn't mean that it has a place in X. Balance is very important as well.

Gemini Lupus
2014-05-17, 10:30 AM
glad to be of service, still curious to see how it'll turn out.

Anyhow, I feel obliged to kick the tires on more time before waiting to see how it turns out.



3rd level spells are available at level 5.

Knowledge arcana 6 ranks is available at level 3. (assuming class skill, which I think it is for all classes that grant arcane casting)

So you'd be able to take it at level 6, not 7 as you say (not a big difference, but still...)

Btw, if you want the class to reflect "physically strenuous" work, maybe add one of the fortitude increasing feats as a requirement (making it harder to get in and dialing down the "strong points" of the class a bit).



Ah, I see where our differences lie, I'm writing for Pathfinder skill points rather than 3.5, a slight difference, but still. I have increased the Spell Level requirement to 4th, skill point requirement to 9, added a feat requirement, but adding Great Fortitude would probably be a good idea too.



And finally... ur-priest style progression... for me that screams un-balanced unless there is a massive downside next to it (and not other increases, as this class has planned). Increasing the level at which you can enter is a good idea. But still... it will be a hard sell for me.

The reason I'm giving them Ur Priest style progression is because they don't increase their access to previous spellcasting class and have a spell list of their own, thus limiting slightly their capabilities. They are still spellcasters after all. I'm thinking that their base spell list will consist of a few conjuration spells and possibly a few here and there, but the bulk of their spells will come from the Aeons that they have made Pacts with. This will grant them quite a bit of flexibility, but not as much as, say a Wizard or even a Cleric...I hope. I've got to get some spell lists down, though that may be a while as I'm doing a summer readings course in Historical Anthropology for Grad School...



Just remember, just because it's awesome doesn't mean that it has a place in X. Balance is very important as well.

Well spoken my friend, well spoken.

Loek
2014-05-17, 11:22 AM
The reason I'm giving them Ur Priest style progression is because they don't increase their access to previous spellcasting class and have a spell list of their own, thus limiting slightly their capabilities. They are still spellcasters after all. I'm thinking that their base spell list will consist of a few conjuration spells and possibly a few here and there, but the bulk of their spells will come from the Aeons that they have made Pacts with. This will grant them quite a bit of flexibility, but not as much as, say a Wizard or even a Cleric...I hope. I've got to get some spell lists down, though that may be a while as I'm doing a summer readings course in Historical Anthropology for Grad School...

In concept, I agree. Just make sure that what ever DM uses this, murders any player that takes this with any form of "multiple spellcasting progression" classes. (The main reason the 10 level class, 9th level spells are horribly broken.)

But keep the spell list manageable (and maybe slip in some clause against theurge-type classes) and you'll probably be fine.

Now I'll truly wait for you to finish up the aeons and such.

ps: edit the top post and add the "pathfinder" tag to the thread (as that would have prevented our misunderstanding about entry level).

Gemini Lupus
2014-05-17, 01:38 PM
In concept, I agree. Just make sure that what ever DM uses this, murders any player that takes this with any form of "multiple spellcasting progression" classes. (The main reason the 10 level class, 9th level spells are horribly broken.)

But keep the spell list manageable (and maybe slip in some clause against theurge-type classes) and you'll probably be fine.

Now I'll truly wait for you to finish up the aeons and such.

ps: edit the top post and add the "pathfinder" tag to the thread (as that would have prevented our misunderstanding about entry level).

Ah, I see your reasoning. I did add an Anti-Theurge clause :smallcool:. Now that I've got the baseline class lined out, now it's off to do the hard part. Hopefully I'll be able to get to it in a timely manner, but otherwise, I hope some more PEACHing occurs!