Can a blink dog flank by itself?

[Wippit Guud]

Dimension Door (Su): A blink dog can teleport, as dimension door (caster level 8th), once per round as a free action. The ability affects only the blink dog, which never appears within a solid object and can act immediately after teleporting.

So, the question be this: if a blink dog has two attacks per round, can it constantly pull the "bite, dimension door, bite" attack routine and get a flanking bonus off of itself. As it's a free action, the dog would appear to be in two places at the same time.

[Person_Man]

No. There must be a figure opposite you when you roll your attack for you to gain the benefits of flanking.

[Raool]

Err no it wouldn't, one round is 6 seconds of combat. So the dog would bite, dim door, bite over the course of 6 seconds and not all at once. Free action merely means that it takes no time to cast the dimension door. The attacks and actual relocation of the pooch still take a normal amount of time, they're not instant.

LE: damit, not fast enough ! :P

[Rigeld2]

Also, theres this clause in the Dim Door spell:

After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn.
Which means he would bite, DD, end.

[Wippit Guud]

Also, theres this clause in the Dim Door spell:

Which means he would bite, DD, end.

Should read the Blink Dog's version above...



And having just occurred to me... would dimension door (or any teleport really) count as movement for a scout's skirmish ability?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Also, theres this clause in the Dim Door spell:

Which means he would bite, DD, end.
Ah, but the description of the ability in the Blink Dog description says:

"The ability affects only the blink dog, which never appears within a solid object and can act immediately after teleporting."
(emphasis mine)


And having just occurred to me... would dimension door (or any teleport really) count as movement for a scout's skirmish ability?
I asked Customer Service this some time ago (referring to the Shadow Magic mystery flicker, though), and the answer was, "No."

I believe that the skirmish bonuses rely on actual physical momentum. Teleporting just doesn't give you that.

[Rigeld2]

Should read the Blink Dog's version above...



And having just occurred to me... would dimension door (or any teleport really) count as movement for a scout's skirmish ability?
I do that a lot =x (not read)

[Wippit Guud]

What's the basis for physically moving adding to the damage? The movement wouldn't be adding momentum to the attack, it would be more of a 'attack from a different position with surprise' thing... walk, run, fly, swim, burrow doesn't matter the movement, a quick DD should have the same effect...

... my dreams of a good blink dog character ae still on hold....

[Person_Man]

I asked Customer Service this some time ago (referring to the Shadow Magic mystery flicker, though), and the answer was, "No."

I believe that the skirmish bonuses rely on actual physical momentum. Teleporting just doesn't give you that.

I allow DD or similar abilities to qualify as movement for Skirmish in my campaigns. Nothing in the text or errata say anything about the movement having to be walking, running, flying, etc. It only says that you must move at least 10 feet, and in the errata it says that being on a mount doesn't count. If it was about momentum, then being on horseback would count. But in reality, its just a poorly written class ability, and they're just making stuff up after the fact.

[Quietus]

Also, I dont' believe you gain successive attacks with a natural weapon.

Why would you need to flank with it though? Don't they already get benefits as if invisible due to blinking?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

But in reality, its just a poorly written class ability, and they're just making stuff up after the fact.
Well, the crap about momentum is largely my attempt to justify the ruling. The Custserv answer never actually said that was the case. Sam (the person that gave me the answer) just said, "No, he actually has to move rather than disappear and reappear elsewhere."

To tell the truth, I have some trouble wrapping my brain around how one would adapt a fighting style that is indeed primarily based around the use of physical motion to simply "disappearing and reappearing elsewhere".

But then there's a lot of wierd stuff in D&D.

[Wippit Guud]

There are ways to bypass the blink effect bonuses, and in those cases flanking yourself would be of benefit.



To tell the truth, I have some trouble wrapping my brain around how one would adapt a fighting style that is indeed primarily based around the use of physical motion to simply "disappearing and reappearing elsewhere".

Sounds like what a typical Shadowdancer would come up with.

[Yuki Akuma]

You can't take free actions in the middle of full attacks...

[Wippit Guud]

You can't take free actions in the middle of full attacks...

SRD: Actions in Combat:

Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions (see below).

[Fax Celestis]

SRD: Actions in Combat:

Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions (see below).

If that's the case...then a Duskblade 20 can full attack, channel a spell, quick-cast a second spell on his second swing, quick-cast a third spell on his third swing, quick-cast a fourth spell on his fourth swing...

...Except I"M AN IDIOT AND FORGOT THAT QUICKENED SPELLS ARE SWIFT ACTIONS NOT FREE ONES. Gah.

[Person_Man]

Well, the crap about momentum is largely my attempt to justify the ruling. The Custserv answer never actually said that was the case. Sam (the person that gave me the answer) just said, "No, he actually has to move rather than disappear and reappear elsewhere."

To tell the truth, I have some trouble wrapping my brain around how one would adapt a fighting style that is indeed primarily based around the use of physical motion to simply "disappearing and reappearing elsewhere".

But then there's a lot of wierd stuff in D&D.

They basically just wanted to give the Scout Precision based damage that wasn't Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike, and this is what they came up with.

My favorite PC of all time was actually a Kobold Scout with Greater Manyshot that I played for over a year. He wasn't particularly uber, but he was an excellent Skill Monkey who could dependably deal out damage every turn (as long as we weren't fighting Undead or similar creatures).

[Yuki Akuma]

Ah, got to love those creative misinterpretations of rules...

Please tell me where it says you can take anything other than a five-foot step during a full attack (not just any full round action; besides, that's just there to confirm that you can take a full-round action and still get a free action off after it), and maybe I'll believe you.

[Matthew]

Doesn't a Fighter 16 have to take three to four Free Actions during a Full Attack to shoot a Bow four times? [i.e. to draw ammunition].

[Quietus]

Yuki, why wouldn't you be able to? Or would you be unable to shout while swinging a sword? Or as Matthew pointed out, draw ammunition to make a full attack?

How about quick-drawing dagger-throwers? Quick draw makes drawing the weapon a free action, enabling you to throw the daggers as needed. Or are you not allowed to make a full attack with throwing weapons now?

[Yuki Akuma]

I think that counts as "Not An Action", but don't quote me on that...

[Raool]

The duskblade at level 13 can channel a spell through his weapon that only ends once he's finished his full attack. So he gets the extra spell effects for every swing. He doesn't need to cast a spell for every strike. I'm playing a duskblade with my group ATM and I'm loving it.

[Fax Celestis]

The duskblade at level 13 can channel a spell through his weapon that only ends once he's finished his full attack. So he gets the extra spell effects for every swing.

No, I meant quick-casting different spells, which doesn't work anyway.

[Matthew]

I think that counts as "Not An Action", but don't quote me on that...

It is a Free Action, as far as I can tell.



Ammunition
Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#arrows) (for bows), bolts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#bolts) (for crossbows), or sling bullets (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#bulletsSling) (for slings). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#freeActions); crossbows and slings require an action for reloading. Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.
Although they are thrown weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#thrownWeapons), shuriken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#shuriken) are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them (see Masterwork Weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#masterworkWeapons)), and what happens to them after they are thrown.

[Wippit Guud]

I think that counts as "Not An Action", but don't quote me on that...

Well, I quoted you anyway. :) But:

Quick Draw Feat: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action.... A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).

[Jothki]

Can Displacer Beasts flank by themselves?

[Quietus]

Nope, it's just a visual effect. Oddly enough, Displacer Beasts gain NO offensive benefits despite not being where you think they are.

[Fax Celestis]

Nope, it's just a visual effect. Oddly enough, Displacer Beasts gain NO offensive benefits despite not being where you think they are.

Which is ridiculous. They should get a "blindsiding bonus".

[Quietus]

Definately. I mean, you know they're there, but I'd houserule a +2 bonus since they aren't exactly where you think they are.

That would apply for ANYONE under the effects of the Displacement spell, of course.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Sounds like what a typical Shadowdancer would come up with.
:smallconfused:

Shadowdancers don't get any special benefit from moving around, whether it's from physically moving or the use of their Shadow Jump ability. I don't quite follow.

[Wippit Guud]

You asked how one would adapt a fighting style to short-distance teleportation. I statted that it seems like a style a shadowdancer would invent, shadow jumping quickly to gain advantage.

As for a nice style to try to emulate, please see Nightcrawler vs The White House in X-Men 2.

[Grendita]

You asked how one would adapt a fighting style to short-distance teleportation. I statted that it seems like a style a shadowdancer would invent, shadow jumping quickly to gain advantage.

As for a nice style to try to emulate, please see Nightcrawler vs The White House in X-Men 2.

Displacement + Shadowjump maybe :smallbiggrin:

[Shhalahr Windrider]

You asked how one would adapt a fighting style to short-distance teleportation. I statted that it seems like a style a shadowdancer would invent, shadow jumping quickly to gain advantage.
I wasn't referring to teleportation-based fighting styles in general, but more the specific application of the scouts skirmish. That the scout apparently needs a whole lot more momentum*—something that takes 10+ feet of full bodied physical movement to build up—than could be generated through a teleport alone. Nightcrawler's basic trick was starting the punch or kick before initiating his teleport and finishing the maneuver after popping back in. That's not nearly enough to qualify as 10 ft. of full-bodied movement as a lead up.

* Yeah, regarding the errata about skirmishing while mounted—I guess we have to assume that it's not just about applying pure momentum, or whatever other forces may be applicable. It has to be applied in some specific way that can't quite be accomplished while mounted. I can't be sure about the exact details, though. But I don't think being unable to skirmish while mounted necessarily eliminates the "skirmish as applied momentum" theory.

[silvermesh]

I'd say it's got less to do with momentum and more to do with the fact that the scout class isn't magical in nature, and by default shouldn't be allowed to use tactics that would probably completely disorient anyone attempting them but the most highly trained individual.

skirmish is about getting in, and getting out, and ducking and weaving to hit the right spot. without some sort of preternatural sense about you it would be damn near impossible to do that when you teleport in the middle of it to a spot where you may or may not have been able to even see the strike zone before you started your action. It would make a really REALLY cool PrC, but by the book it doesn't fit.