Poison the unpoisonable

[Renen]

Anyone know how to?
To use poisons at a high level, you need to use ones with high DC. Sadly all of them are actually poison (unlike some "poisons" that actually arent).
Is there any way to bypass poison immunity that a creature might have?

[Emperor Ing]

I don't think Poisons were ever intended to be used past 5th level. By then making the DCs are pretty simple, and by level 10 everybody and their grandma can make the save DCs or are even immune to whatever damage it inflicts entirely without being immune to poison itself.

In other words, I don't think there's a poison that bypasses immunity, no.

[Renen]

There's Megapede Venom in dungeonscape. 44 save DC seems to indicate use at higher levels.

And I dont want a poison that bypasses immunity. But maybe a class skill that allows you (somehow) to poison anything

[Captnq]

I always assumed you could just use a wish. Expensive, yes. But for 27,500 gp there's no reason you couldn't say, "I wish this poison worked as it is intended on what ever creature it is next used against, even if that creature is immune to poison." A heavy additional cost, but at one wish a dose, I can't see any DM on the planet objecting to the use of wish in that manner.

Oh, I got a whole handbook on poisons in the EVD. it's in the folder marked combat equipment. Check out my sig for details.

[Renen]

What if wish IS too expensive? Or you just want to have poison work in general?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ravages in BoED work like poison but they only affect evil creatures and bypass poison immunity. Their DCs are quite low, but you could argue that the Touch of Golden Ice feat gives you your own Golden Ice special attack that would have a DC of 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Con bonus instead of its printed DC of 14.

[Rebel7284]

Don't ravages from the book of exalted deeds bypass immunity by technically NOT being poison? xD

[Darrin]

Aboleth Mucus (20 GP, Savage Species) is not a poison. Even with a high Fort save... Every creature will eventually roll a 1.

[Augment Tab]

Ravages in BoED work like poison but they only affect evil creatures and bypass poison immunity. Their DCs are quite low, but you could argue that the Touch of Golden Ice feat gives you your own Golden Ice special attack that would have a DC of 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Con bonus instead of its printed DC of 14.

In addition to the ravages, there are positoxins from Libris Mortis that work against undead despite their immunity to poisons and ability damage.

[Time Blossom]

I would say that if you want to specialize in poisons to the extent that poison immunity is a non-issue, that should be a class feature. Or maybe a crafting feat?

Like, there's the Searing Spell metamagic feat which lets fire spells ignore fire resistance and partially affect creatures that are immune to fire damage. So there's a precedent for feats getting around immunities.

I might suggest a feat sort of along the same lines. Maybe something like this, though I'm sure the exact figures would need some tweaking, so please do. It also assumes the ability to craft poisons, but I can't imagine why that wouldn't be a valid skill:

Poison the Unpoisonable [Metacrafting]

Prerequisites: Craft (Poisons) 8 ranks, Poison Use class feature

Benefit: By including rare unguents and toxins which add an additional 25% to the cost of your poison while crafting, you can alter the makeup of your poisons to such an extent that usual toxin resistances do not apply. The poison ignores any extra resistances the target creature might have to poisons, and creatures who are immune to poison are still subject to the initial damage provided they fail their save, though they are not subject to any secondary damage.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Incidentally, Metacrafting should totally be a feat category. Mundane crafting needs more love.

[Augment Tab]

Blue Devil Games did a book called Poisoncraft: The Dark Art, which has metapoison feats and all manner of poison-crafting goodies. It's something like $3 on Drive Thru RPG.

[Vedhin]

Epic Poisons (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20021110a) bypass magical protections. Natural immunity still works, and they cost an absurd amount.

[Jeff the Green]

Trait removal would do it. It has a 1-hour casting time, though, so getting it as an SLA would be best. If you can reduce it's casting time and keep it a spell, you could apply the Poison Spell metamagic, stripping them of their immunity and exposing them to the poison at the same time.

[Bronk]

Molydeus poison can harm creatures that are normally immune...

[Grayson01]

Use a Ravage instead of a Poison :-) lol

[Darrin]

Flux Slime (ELH) also has a similar ability damage effect, and is not a poison. A bit more difficult to handle, but you can create it with a 100 GP Chaos Flask (Planar Handbook).

[Chronos]

IIRC, one of the Elder Evils has a poison that bypasses immunity.

[Time Blossom]

Blue Devil Games did a book called Poisoncraft: The Dark Art, which has metapoison feats and all manner of poison-crafting goodies. It's something like $3 on Drive Thru RPG.I don't even use poison, but I'm still pretty sure my life is better for knowing that. :smallcool:

[Ravens_cry]

Ravages in BoED work like poison but they only affect evil creatures and bypass poison immunity. Their DCs are quite low, but you could argue that the Touch of Golden Ice feat gives you your own Golden Ice special attack that would have a DC of 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Con bonus instead of its printed DC of 14.
No.
<rant> Ravages are an abomination of game design, not to mention of morality and ethics. Even if one considers poisons to be evil, which is questionable with D&D poisons, making them only affect evil creatures only does not make them suddenly less evil. </rant>

[Tvtyrant]

IIRC, one of the Elder Evils has a poison that bypasses immunity.

I believe.Sertrous actually removes poison immunity within an aura around it, but I am away from book. I was going to suggest binding him myself.

[peacenlove]

There are 2 poisons in book of vile darkness that bypass natural poison immunity IIRC but their effects are rather underwhelming.
EDIT 2: Looking at them they are Basilisk breath which is quite good and inhaled, and Devlis Eye which is bad, but they only bypass the poison immunity found on outsiders.
Aspect of Sertous (an elder evil) has an aura that removes poison immunity, but he needs greater planar binding or gate to be called. Also divines will hate you forever.
EDIT: Semi-ninja-ed

[ace rooster]

The problem with poisons is that they are generally mundane, and covered by a single blanket immunity. In a world where magic is common (or at least not rare), poisons being mundane seems odd to me. The existence of mundane poisons to avoid magical detection (which doesn't work anyway) should be the exception rather than the rule, and irrelevent to combat use.

Magical poisons should require all the same skills that exist in brewing potions anyway, (convincing someone to drink a potion of enervation works already) so why not just extend brew potion to be able to brew magical poisons. They could follow the same creation rules as potions, but work on injuries rather than being consumed.

Most spells that allow a save would be almost ineffective, but dispel poisons and enervation poisons could be very powerful (but expensive). Shivering touch would be as broken as it was before, but now for everybody. Shocking grasp would be a decent low level damage poison, and fairly cheap at 50gp per d6 damage. These are just the obvious ones. A particular poison could be very situationally useful, rewarding good preperation. For example, halt undead would work on a zombie dragon just fine, which would allow non-caster parties access to some of the preperation available to casters, and offer a caster greater range than they get with direct casting.

[PraxisVetli]

Blue Devil Games did a book called Poisoncraft: The Dark Art, which has metapoison feats and all manner of poison-crafting goodies. It's something like $3 on Drive Thru RPG.

yeah, if you can get your DM to approve it, it's actually a fantastic book for that sort of thing.

[StreamOfTheSky]

No.
<rant> Ravages are an abomination of game design, not to mention of morality and ethics. Even if one considers poisons to be evil, which is questionable with D&D poisons, making them only affect evil creatures only does not make them suddenly less evil. </rant>

Poisons aren't evil. Lots of neutral creatures (animals) use them, even plants (not considered creatures in D&D, "unless plant creature")...it's not inherently more wrong to poison someone to death than incinerate them with a fireball, plus most poisons incapacitate rather than kill.

Now, in the game poisons tend to be nonlawful, since the book says that most towns and cities outlaw the creation, buying/selling, and use of them. At least the poisons that a creature doesn't naturally produce itself.

And yeah, in D&D "poison" covers poisons, toxins, venoms, etc... Even drugs and alcohol, I think... I realize in real life some of those example may not use literal "poison."

[unseenmage]

The Greater Humanoid Essence spell turns a Construct into a Humanoid with all the vulnerabilities that entails, including poison.

One could imagine using the Custom Spell guidelines in the DMG to homebrew up a version for Undead that's one level higher.