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AlanBruce
2014-05-18, 06:29 AM
Greetings! I am currently having a sea faring arc and the party has been doing just great, except for the fact that none of them knows a thing about ship maintenance and being a sailor since they have always had to deal with problems on land.

The party is ECL 12-13, and powerful on their right, having chartered a ship that will take them 30 days to reach destination while exploring (since the party's pixie bard wants to do some pirateering aka. treasure hunting).

The crew is made of 20 human sailors (fighter2/expert1), a human cook (expert 4, feats focused on cooking skills with some sailor stuff added in), a healer/carpenter (adept 8), a boatswain hadozee bard7/virtuoso3, a quartermaster darfellan ranger5/leviathan hunter5, and the good captain, a half elf Rogue4/Swashbuckler3/Dread Pirate1/Scarlet Corsair3.

The party are 5 and they have paid good coin to be the only passengers on the ship, but, as luck may have it, it is day 2 (nearing the beginning of day 3) and disaster has already struck.

Forced to take a detour on account of a warning by an Ocean Strider, the ship has taken an alternate course, fraught with danger, which will lead them through, amongst many places, a graveyard ship, a harpy's island, an immense stretch of sargasso sea and, quite possibly, the domains of an old cursed Scyllan (Stormwrack).

All that's fine and dandy. These locations are ripe with RP and XP and loot opportunities for a 30 day travel. There is no complaint there. The crew, being low level (particularly the sailors), don't look upon their deluxe passengers with too much trust.

For one, a female drow paladin is considered bad luck, being a woman in a ship. Nevermind the fact she's a drow.

The warforged shaman did not help the crew's view by summoning a puppet show made of elementals on the very first night and closing the show with a 5 ton earth elemental that bore a hole in the deck, tearing through the many levels of the ship and nearly sinking it.

Thankfully, the party's conjurer was able to asist- and greatly- by using his summon unseen horde and helping the crew bucket the water out while the party's druid swam under the hull and helped the rest of the crew with repairs (he devoted some skills to carpentry), while the party's pixie bard chanted underwater as a Sirine (MM2) to give everyone a nice boost.

Cue in day two and the captain proposes the idea of treasure hunting- some coin on the side. As long as it's on the way. The route is already dangerous as is and he does not want to endanger his crew, but he also does not want to miss out on sunken treasure- something the party seems to be really good at retrieving.

The first treasure hunt was directed by the captain (played by me), the pixie and conjurer.

The pay off was a small chest with several hundred gold (breaking the 1K mark) and that damn crab so infamous in many threads. That and the risk of the ship they were investigating sliding down a trench due to TDC moving all over the main battle area- the mess hall.

One treasure chest secured and a teleport later, and the captain begins to see the usefulness in his passengers. They aren't just rich guys with expensive trinkets. They can help. Help his pocket, at least. And so, he offers the pixie three more maps for her to decipher while he mans the ship.

The maps are deciphered: One will take the ship off course by two full days- an abadoned wizard's tower in the middle of the sea, something the captain objects to, unless the party decides to go alone, since he will not alter his course so dramatically, let alone give them crew members (but he will give them a rowboat).

Another is a series of sand bars- an Atoll. Shallow waters peppered here and there by palm trees. Yurians (FF) are said to live here, but where exactly the treasure is, is a mystery. This place is along the way, but the captain has asked that if they do decide to explore, that the ship will not get a mile close, given that there is high risk of dredging the vessel on the sandbars.

The final spot is 2 days from their current location, on course. A green island by the looks on the map. Lush and probably filled with supplies. Supplies the ship may need after the elemental fiasco. The writings on the map are Hadozee, which have the Boatswain intrigued and willing to join the party and explore.

Unknown to the crew (but not to the party), the drow, who has remained silent harbors a necrotic cyst from a fight months earlier. This cyst has not been removed yet and the party's wizard makes it a habit to cast Disobedience on her every day (he is aware that he cannot control or stop her necrotic eruption, but has chosen to remain silent on the matter so as to not scare her or the rest). However the drow did speak her mind when the mage volunteered to go with the pixie and warforged to the wizard's tower, prompting her to remind him that he- and only he, was able to keep her mind at bay, should murderous desires be whispered to her.

Not the best choice of words when out at sea, probably.

Cue in a private meeting with the party, high officers and captain. Captain is in an uproar, threatens to leave the drow on the first patch of land he finds. Druid jumps in, calling him out on reneging his contract, to which the captain laughs, saying that out at sea, "the captain has ultimate say, especially when matters like these are involved".

Words are exchanged. Subtle threats thrown in. Meeting dismissed.

Cue in next day...

the drow has taken to the crow's nest, away from everyone, while the rest of the party is feeling bummed out, taking to their cabins as the captain mans the wheel and points out to the Atoll, asking if anyone wants to do a quick stop.

No answer.

So I decide to send in an advanced Dragon turtle (MM) under the ship to start attempting to capsize it, something it does not accomplish, but is successful in breaking through to the kitchen with its beak and causing the main mast to break.

The party takes action. They buff, jump under the water and get ready to face off against the beast.

The conjurer forgets his daily Disobedience and so, the cyst takes hold of the drow, submitting her to necrotic domination and asking her to use her only Alter Self to go Raptoran and fly to the Atoll while remarking that she, being a drow noble, is above protecting smelly humans... and to kill anyone who tried to stop her on the way there.

The party under the ship is having a brutal affair. The conjurer shows why he's a T1 and saves the party and crew at least 3 times by altering reality and shuffling them around the water, away from the turtle's BW, which would've slain over half the crew.

A single sailor died that fight, and it was due to an AoO as he hasted himself closer to the dragon, cutlass in hand.

In the end, the crew, the captain, the darfellan, the druid, the warforged, and the pixie bard bolstering all, caused the massive turtle to be stabbed and cut to death by getting horribly surrounded.

One sailor dead. One dragon turtle dead. Fair trade.

Of course, the aftermath has left the ship in shambles. The healer has taken to the helm and ordered those still on deck to use oars to paddle towards the Atoll- there are no sails and that's their safest bet.

The ship dredges itself less than a mile from the shallow Atoll, causing the captain to ask everyone (party included) to drag the vessel through the sandbars until they could get it to shallow waters, so it wouldn't sink. A grueling journey under a tropical sun as a group of 20+ hauled the ship by strength alone, while the warforged used an elemental to drag the turtle's mighty carcass along.

Food would be necessary while the ship was repaired.

Long story short, they meet a Yurian- or what they think is a Yurian. A wavecrest gnome effigy master inside a "crabman suit" who is horrified to see that the dragon turtle is dead- the Great Protector of the Atoll and a deity like figure to the Yurians, who kept such unsavories like sahuagin and pirates away from the place. Why did it attack their ship? That's a part of the mystery.

Currently, the crew has cut the dragon turtle following the cook's instructions and everyone had turtle soup, with salted steaks harpooned to the sandbars for later consumtion.

The warforged, aware that the party had a unique wand of Last Breath, heads back to the derelict ship and uses 2 charges on the dead sailor, bringing him back to the Atoll as a hobgoblin, something the crew is reluctant to accept at first, but the captain and officers welcome gladly, thanking the spirit shaman for his actions.

The druid and captain know slicing and eating this creature is wrong in many levels, but they need a strong crew if the Yurians are to show up, something they have not yet, but the party is certain that they are watching from beneath the shallow waters, much like their crab cousins.

I apologize for the long wall of text, but my query was the following- the players have left everything- negotiations, talking, investigating, to the captain, an npc. Their reasoning being that the captain is "the captain" and so he'd know more about the sea than them. the druid's player has shown more initiative, actively asking questions, proposing ideas and what not.

How could I make the party get involved more? They had no problem with the Dragon turtle battle. they actively went in after it, but the RP sections they just stood back and allowed the npcs to research and propose ideas, something I feel uneasy about, since I enjoy lateral thinking on behalf of my players.

They didn't even ask the wavecrest gnome what his name was, which should be a first when meeting someone new in an out of the way place like the middle of the ocean.

Any ideas are more than welcome.

Thank you and I apologize again for the long thread.

MrNobody
2014-05-18, 07:32 AM
I had a similar problem (and not only on the RP side) when one of my player (the more experienced, playing a binder/chameleon) left the group (and the state) to go to Australia for one year.

Since the player was the more experienced and played a PC that could easily solve a lot of situation, the group was used to wait for him to have ideas and take out form his metaphoric hat the spell/vestige that could solve the current problem.
When the player left and i took control of the PC as a DMPC (to keep it in game till his player's return), things didn't change: in fornt of various problems the party stared at me expecting (or directly asking) the DMPC to do something.

How i solved the situation? Taking the DMPC out. He's not dead, he's fully alive, but i find a way to be impossible to him helping the party.
Maybe you should come out with something like that (the captain is kidnapped, eats food with magical mildew that send him in a coma) and maybe have the "officers" ask one of the group (maybe the conjurer. since he has been the more "heroic") to take the lead till the captain is back.
This proposal could also come from the crew, that has been saved by the mage during the recent fight and could trust him a lot.

This way the conjurer would be forced to be involved while the others, not wanting to let only one of them to fully decide the game, will be pushed to, at least, discuss with him the decisions that have to be made.

pwykersotz
2014-05-18, 07:38 AM
You could always kill of the captain and senior crew in a tragic accident or attack, making the players responsible for the ship. But in all honesty, what they did could easily be considered good roleplaying. Decisions like that are often left to the ones who are truly in charge or most experienced. They feel that they are merely passangers and subordinates, so they act that way. If they were in charge, they might feel more inclined to shape events more.

Alternately, have the captain assign them specific duties. Combat has occurred, and this is an abnormal event on a passanger ship. The captain could easily have need to hire back the very adventurers who paid for passage to save the ship. You've started this process already. Free them from the bonds of thinking that someone else knows better, make their expertise valued.

If you want to wait a bit longer, you could make it clear that every decision the captain makes is doomed to failure. He chose to stick near the shores? Reefs tear at the bottom of the ship. He tried to negotiate with the people on the island? He offends them and the ship is attacked.

If it's just trepidation about not knowing much about the sea, just advise them that if they use common sense and pair it with a Profession: Sailor check, they won't be penalized. That's what skills are useful for after all, simulating skill in an area that the player has none in. That might give them the confidence to say "The storm is pretty bad. I try to keep the ship intact. I got a 27 Profession Sailor Check". Then you can follow with them taking in the sails, shoring up the rigging, securing the deck, etc.

But one last thing. If the players do none of the talking/negotiating, don't do it in front of them. Have the captain and the gnome disappear into a cabin for a while to talk. Leave them guessing as to what was discussed. Information feels a lot more powerful when you have to work to get it, and if decisions are made that seem questionable, the players might start investigating.

AlanBruce
2014-05-18, 08:01 AM
Thank you for the quick and very good responses.

The druid has taken to a pro active role, calling his party together and asking to perform night guard duty at the Atoll while the crew and officers sleep, since most of the party do not require sleeping at all.

The captain has defered to the party, particularly the druid and mage for help so far. He has personally assigned the conjurer to keep watch of the drow, should the cyst take on a more dangerous aspect next time.

The crew (that is, the sailors, not the officers), show great respect for the mage and pixie, who heped them both battle the dragon turtle (Celerity + various small range teleports + Words of Creation do wonders for low level npcs).

The captain and officers are equally grateful for the assistance, but the situation currently is not a good one, since the party has expressed that the captain negotiate with the Yurians come morning- something that ought to go south quickly when the crabfolk see their great protector reduced to bones and her flesh salted and harpooned for later consumption by the crew.

Perhaps that should open interesting scenarios- maybe the Yurians decide to take the captain and officers, leaving the party in charge of the ship... and the officer's rescue.

Red Fel
2014-05-18, 10:09 AM
I apologize for the long wall of text, but my query was the following- the players have left everything- negotiations, talking, investigating, to the captain, an npc. Their reasoning being that the captain is "the captain" and so he'd know more about the sea than them. the druid's player has shown more initiative, actively asking questions, proposing ideas and what not.

How could I make the party get involved more? They had no problem with the Dragon turtle battle. they actively went in after it, but the RP sections they just stood back and allowed the npcs to research and propose ideas, something I feel uneasy about, since I enjoy lateral thinking on behalf of my players.

They didn't even ask the wavecrest gnome what his name was, which should be a first when meeting someone new in an out of the way place like the middle of the ocean.

Are your players normally lateral thinkers? If they're not, then expecting it to suddenly change now is a bit, well, sudden. If they are, however, I think that part of the problem is that you said this:


Cue in a private meeting with the party, high officers and captain. Captain is in an uproar, threatens to leave the drow on the first patch of land he finds. Druid jumps in, calling him out on reneging his contract, to which the captain laughs, saying that out at sea, "the captain has ultimate say, especially when matters like these are involved".

Words are exchanged. Subtle threats thrown in. Meeting dismissed.

You've set up the Captain as the authority. The Captain gives the quests. The Captain barks orders and issues ultimatums. The Captain runs the show on the sea. You told them "The Captain has the ultimate say." They're giving that authority to the Captain. Want them to re-take the reins? Take down the Captain somehow. Make him weak, expose his flaws, have him make a mistake or do something the PCs know to be wrong. Force them to step up and take over for him. They'll earn an ally and re-take control of their campaign.

But again, that's assuming your players have historically demonstrated an ability to take the lead. If they haven't, you've got bigger problems expecting them to start now, especially considering - as I've mentioned - that the Captain has basically assumed that role.

Short version: You set the Captain up as the authority, you scared the PCs into obeying him. Give them a reason to disobey, or otherwise remove their reliance by force.

Sewercop
2014-05-18, 10:58 AM
They left negotiations to YOU, not an npc. You are the defacto group leader by steering the captain around.
What are lvl 12-13 doing fighting a crab like that? its trivial.. not to mention the loot is despicable. 1k ? pocket change at that level.

They use teleport but wants a ship for travel? color me impressed

Did you atleast keelhaul the bastard that almost sunk the ship?

AlanBruce
2014-05-18, 02:32 PM
Are your players normally lateral thinkers?

They have surprised me in the past with some very good ideas. Particularly the druid and mage.


You've set up the Captain as the authority. The Captain gives the quests. The Captain barks orders and issues ultimatums. The Captain runs the show on the sea. You told them "The Captain has the ultimate say." They're giving that authority to the Captain. Want them to re-take the reins? Take down the Captain somehow. Make him weak, expose his flaws, have him make a mistake or do something the PCs know to be wrong. Force them to step up and take over for him. They'll earn an ally and re-take control of their campaign.

That card was pulled by the captain when the private meeting went south. He had, but a night prior, had to deal with a 5 ton elemental on his deck, nearly sinking the ship on first night out at sea.

Minutes to prior to the meeting, he learns that the silent drow passenger, who claimed 'did not know any of them (the party)' now turns out to know them and, worse, harbors something inside her that can make her go mental- not the best things to happen out at sea in a 30 day voyage.

Naturally, he questions the mage for remaining quiet on that matter (the mage negotiated the voyage alone with the captain and kept quiet on who the passengers were, but not their number). He is the captain. I had to play him that way and, understandably, get mad, especially when he saw the party debut up the ramp prior to sailing- a diverse and odd cast (especially the warforged). He did ask that they do not use "flashy magic" that could scare the crew. And then the elemental puppet show happened. He even wanted to send the warforged to cargo since 'he doesn't eat or drink and is a menace to my ship. Best put him in a crate for the duration of the voyage.'

The threats came from the druid, incidentally, when he suggested that he (a former inquisitor) could have his ship embargoed upon arrival to their destination for not fulfilling his side of the contract, which angered the captain and made him pull a "walk the plank" reference.

The party, of course, does their own things the next day and the warforged decides to fly ahead using his Phantom Stag. More 'flashy magic' to which the captain himself wonders why they chartered his ship in the first place.

The captain, from an IC point of view, acquiesces the fact that these are not ordinary passengers. He is aware they have access to powerful magic, something the Hadozee has helped him understand, being a bard and IDing the spells used. He likes some of the party members (like the pixie, who is by default, the most 'magical' of them all), but he fears for his crew, who is decidedly non magical, except for the adept and hadozee (and their spell repertoire isn't anything close to the party's).

So it comes, I believe, to a man without magic of any sort, short of his gear, dealing with a highly magical group on his ship- something he is beginning to accept and understand, especially after the Dragon Turtle battle, where he and his crew were saved by the conjurer many times.

Could I have made the captain submissive against the party? OOC, definitely. A single party member alone could destroy the ship (it almost happened), but from a RP perspective, the captain would lose his sea cred as a captain, so I hope I haven't walked myself into a corner here.


What are lvl 12-13 doing fighting a crab like that? its trivial.. not to mention the loot is despicable. 1k ? pocket change at that level.


Oddly enough, the conjurer is BFC, mostly and the pixie has bardic spells- few that blast. They decided to avoid the crab and loot the derelict, sunken ship. The money was a nice bonus and, as the captain explained, he has a lot of treasure charts- each with varying difficulties- like the abandoned wizard's tower off course.


They use teleport but wants a ship for travel? color me impressed

They use teleport all the time. The conjurer is a teleport focused wizard. However, they wanted to get to know the world more and their destination is far away- mishaps can happen, since none know how to get there. So, it was put ou to vote IC.

The pixie wanted to travel by ship. Become a pirate, romanticized by the tales heard as a bard.

The druid did not want to go on a ship- or teleport. IC he gets seasick. He would just like to avoid the destination altogether (backstory reasons).

The warforged needs allies (newest addition to the group) and has accepted to follow the party if only because he understand that having allies for his personal quest is better than having none at all.

The drow was silent during this voting. Her home was in the Fey Woods, were the campaign mostly took place. The woods are safe now and she feels she can help solve the bigger problem (they are somewhat aware of what the bigger problem is) if they travel- be it through magic or by sea.

The mage, oddly enough, did not suggest teleport, something that surprised me. He was eager to experience the life at sea, being very studious and curious, especially when it was mentioned that there were many new races out in the islands and swimming around them.


Did you atleast keelhaul the bastard that almost sunk the ship?

If you menan the warforged, he was threatened to be placed in a crate in storage for the entirety of the voyage. The captain's view on him has changed since he brought back one of his crew members alive- changed to a hobgoblin- but alive.

Now, crew and party are stranded in an Atoll and the party is pulling their weight, when the captain has reminded them they are passengers and do not need to do so, earning, little by little, a mutual understanding, hopefully.

Red Fel
2014-05-18, 03:01 PM
That card was pulled by the captain when the private meeting went south. He had, but a night prior, had to deal with a 5 ton elemental on his deck, nearly sinking the ship on first night out at sea.

Minutes to prior to the meeting, he learns that the silent drow passenger, who claimed 'did not know any of them (the party)' now turns out to know them and, worse, harbors something inside her that can make her go mental- not the best things to happen out at sea in a 30 day voyage.

Naturally, he questions the mage for remaining quiet on that matter (the mage negotiated the voyage alone with the captain and kept quiet on who the passengers were, but not their number). He is the captain. I had to play him that way and, understandably, get mad, especially when he saw the party debut up the ramp prior to sailing- a diverse and odd cast (especially the warforged). He did ask that they do not use "flashy magic" that could scare the crew. And then the elemental puppet show happened. He even wanted to send the warforged to cargo since 'he doesn't eat or drink and is a menace to my ship. Best put him in a crate for the duration of the voyage.'

The threats came from the druid, incidentally, when he suggested that he (a former inquisitor) could have his ship embargoed upon arrival to their destination for not fulfilling his side of the contract, which angered the captain and made him pull a "walk the plank" reference.

The party, of course, does their own things the next day and the warforged decides to fly ahead using his Phantom Stag. More 'flashy magic' to which the captain himself wonders why they chartered his ship in the first place.

The captain, from an IC point of view, acquiesces the fact that these are not ordinary passengers. He is aware they have access to powerful magic, something the Hadozee has helped him understand, being a bard and IDing the spells used. He likes some of the party members (like the pixie, who is by default, the most 'magical' of them all), but he fears for his crew, who is decidedly non magical, except for the adept and hadozee (and their spell repertoire isn't anything close to the party's).

So it comes, I believe, to a man without magic of any sort, short of his gear, dealing with a highly magical group on his ship- something he is beginning to accept and understand, especially after the Dragon Turtle battle, where he and his crew were saved by the conjurer many times.

Could I have made the captain submissive against the party? OOC, definitely. A single party member alone could destroy the ship (it almost happened), but from a RP perspective, the captain would lose his sea cred as a captain, so I hope I haven't walked myself into a corner here.

I don't disagree with the Captain's actions. I think they were justified. My concern is that you might have played him too well. It's possible that your players are feeling (a) intimidated, or (b) apologetic for how they treated him and how he reacted. The important thing now is to get them back in charge of their own destiny.

Getting them off the ship (admittedly, by landing the ship on an atoll) was the first part. The Captain is the law on his ship, but they're on land now, in a manner of speaking. Next is to remove the Captain as an authority figure. I don't mean literally get rid of the Captain, but undermine him somehow.

Option 1 is to have him injured, incapacitated, or otherwise distracted. Perhaps he needs to devote his full attention to the ship's repairs. Perhaps he is injured by a falling piece of the mast. Perhaps he ingests something poisonous. Whatever the reason, Option 1 is that the Captain is no longer in a position to dictate the PCs' actions, thus forcing them to decide their own fate. Note that the problem with sickness or injury is that the PCs may be able to cure it, so a distraction might be more effective. Getting him killed is also an option, but obviously not a terribly desirable one.

Option 2 is to make him an undesirable leader. He may be an effective captain, a capable sailor and a loyal chum, but that doesn't mean he can't be a proper scumbag, or complete idiot, when it comes to non-ship-related things. Have him voice an incredibly stupid "diplomatic" plan. Have him suggest a course of action bordering on Evil, like slaughtering the natives and stealing their stuff. Or just make him generally inept at dealing with the locals. Basically, Option 2 is that the Captain is no longer a desirable authority figure, either because his plans are stupid or offensive to the PCs, or because the PCs were stupid enough to go along with one of his plans and it turned sour. After that, the players won't want to obey the Captain (except while at sea), solving the problem neatly.

AlanBruce
2014-05-18, 04:00 PM
Getting them off the ship (admittedly, by landing the ship on an atoll) was the first part. The Captain is the law on his ship, but they're on land now, in a manner of speaking. Next is to remove the Captain as an authority figure. I don't mean literally get rid of the Captain, but undermine him somehow.


That was my train of thought as well. The party does not need to yield to the captain anymore, but his crew still answers to him. In fact, the druid proposed using plant growth to cause a few extra palm trees to grow in the atoll for supplies- as long as the Atoll was not entirely cut down of trees.


Option 1 is to have him injured, incapacitated, or otherwise distracted. Perhaps he needs to devote his full attention to the ship's repairs. Perhaps he is injured by a falling piece of the mast. Perhaps he ingests something poisonous. Whatever the reason, Option 1 is that the Captain is no longer in a position to dictate the PCs' actions, thus forcing them to decide their own fate. Note that the problem with sickness or injury is that the PCs may be able to cure it, so a distraction might be more effective. Getting him killed is also an option, but obviously not a terribly desirable one.


That is a good idea. Killing the captain will most likely result in the Darfellan quartermaster and the Hadozee going after the party, not to mention the crew. It would likely result in a terrible slaughter, which would leave the Atoll bloodtsained and the party with no ship, captain, or crew to leave (unless they teleport blindly).

Thankfully, the party is good aligned (except for the warforged, who is TN), so hopefully that option will not present itself. Currently, the captain has left the party to discuss repairs with his crew and has introdued the group to the wavecrest gnome, who had a private meeting with the captain and officers, leaving the party to do their own inquiries.


Option 2 is to make him an undesirable leader. He may be an effective captain, a capable sailor and a loyal chum, but that doesn't mean he can't be a proper scumbag, or complete idiot, when it comes to non-ship-related things. Have him voice an incredibly stupid "diplomatic" plan. Have him suggest a course of action bordering on Evil, like slaughtering the natives and stealing their stuff. Or just make him generally inept at dealing with the locals. Basically, Option 2 is that the Captain is no longer a desirable authority figure, either because his plans are stupid or offensive to the PCs, or because the PCs were stupid enough to go along with one of his plans and it turned sour. After that, the players won't want to obey the Captain (except while at sea), solving the problem neatly.

This is also a very possible outcome. The captain did allow the crew to eat the Dragon Turtle- something the party did not object to, except for the druid, who did make some passing mention but partook of the food anyway. He did however, stop the Darfellan from claiming the beast's head as a trophy, stating that they would already be in enough trouble come morning once the Yurians saw their butchered deity on the Atoll- let alone sans a head.

Negotiations via the gnome may happen, since nobody on the group or crew speak Yurian, so botched diplomacy is in order. How bad can it go? Given what has happened, pretty bad, but then again, this should also give the party a chance to take on the reins and decide what happens next.