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Nettlekid
2014-05-18, 04:05 PM
I've been thinking about doing silly things with a Wu Jen/Crusader/Jade Phoenix Mage/Archmage, abusing swarms of Body Outside Body clones along with maneuvers and stances that make allies stronger like Leading the Charge, White Raven Tactics, Iron Guard's Glare (if it stacks from lots of users?) and maybe even War Master's Charge if I can get a Crown of White Ravens. I'm thinking about using Archmage to make not only Body Outside Body but also Greater Teleport and of course Transcend Morality, as well as maybe Giant Size and Minute Size (mainly for silly/style points, if you have better spell suggestions for the clones let me know) but at the root of it they're basically just going to be cannon fodder.

Now, Body Outside Body makes nonmagical replications of all magic items. That means that if I'm supplementing my combat prowess with magic, like say with custom crafted Gauntlets of Wraithstrike or something, they won't have that advantage. So my question is, what kinds of mundane items would be the best to have on hand in order to give these clones some staying force? I'm thinking consumables like Dust Eggshell Grenades, Chaos Flasks, things like that. Shapesand is a classic, though I don't know how useful it would be to clones. Things like that. Does anyone have a list of nonmagical items, and any particular suggestions?

Gildedragon
2014-05-18, 04:08 PM
most non magic items tend to be challenge oriented.
but you might want to look at shax's handy haversack

Doc_Maynot
2014-05-18, 04:11 PM
One of THE most powerful has to be Shapesand, since it can become any other one.

Andion Isurand
2014-05-18, 07:16 PM
Poisons are pretty nifty.

The Grue
2014-05-18, 07:19 PM
I'll just leave this here... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-(Equipment-Handbook))

Chronos
2014-05-18, 07:27 PM
Quintessence might be handy.

Nettlekid
2014-05-18, 07:57 PM
Poisons are indeed useful, though I think it would be simpler to have a Chaos Flask on hand and turn that into the poison when needed. Are Positoxins magical in nature and thus unable to be created by a Chaos Flask, or is it just that they're infused with positive energy in their creation but would work in an AMF, etc?

Shax's Indispensable Haversack is handy, though I'm not sure what to pick from it. It's mostly utility tools rather than any kind of offensive thing that a non-magic-using copy could use to strike with. The ones that stood out were the ones I'd already said, like Eggshell Grenades, though I admit I'd forgotten about Aboleth Mucus.

Quintessence isn't much good, since the whole point of it is that it'll preserve things for ages but it'll disappear in a minute as Body Outside Body expires. But instantaneous Conjuration [Creation] spells might provide interesting results if I look at that, so thanks for that suggestion.

Vedhin
2014-05-18, 08:03 PM
I can advise Sinmaker's Surprise, and excellent poison/acid combo from the Manual of the Planes. Also, the Fiend Folio has Venomous Fire, nasty stuff that combines poison with alchemist's fire. Secrets of Sarlona has Explosive Packs, which can be combined for bigger booms.

deuxhero
2014-05-18, 08:14 PM
Does body outside of body duplicate in-progress spell effects?

Nettlekid
2014-05-18, 09:10 PM
I can advise Sinmaker's Surprise, and excellent poison/acid combo from the Manual of the Planes. Also, the Fiend Folio has Venomous Fire, nasty stuff that combines poison with alchemist's fire. Secrets of Sarlona has Explosive Packs, which can be combined for bigger booms.

Wow, that Venomous Fire is pretty good, though except for acid-immune opponents Sinmaker's Surprise seems to be the better choice. But both are really good, especially if they're going to be hurled by many copies. Those Explosive Packs are also pretty hilarious. I was kind of imagining using the clones to suicide bomb with Emerald Immolation, and setting up an Explosive Pack beforehand basically does double duty. I like that a lot.


Does body outside of body duplicate in-progress spell effects?

It doesn't say, so it would be up to the DM. My personal call would be for the most part no, except for spells that affect the body in some way. So Polymorph effects I would say carry over, as would any physical stat boosts (if they didn't then there might be some weird stuff with the BoB clone's Con score affecting its HP) and the like, but not buffs like Haste and the like. But that would just be my own ruling, and I think a DM could choose between a number of viable rulings.

Vedhin
2014-05-18, 09:16 PM
Wow, that Venomous Fire is pretty good, though except for acid-immune opponents Sinmaker's Surprise seems to be the better choice. But both are really good, especially if they're going to be hurled by many copies.

If you can, get an Alchemist Savant (Magic of Eberron) to combine them. One is classed as a poison, and one as an alchemical item, so it works.

Nettlekid
2014-05-18, 09:31 PM
If you can, get an Alchemist Savant (Magic of Eberron) to combine them. One is classed as a poison, and one as an alchemical item, so it works.

Hmm, I WAS trying to think of an interesting cohort for this character, and that would certainly be different.

The character is a fairly simple Wu Jen 5/Crusader 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Archmage 4. Because of annoying skill requirements, I've stuck in the backstory that he was Human for most of his life but killed and later Reincarnated as a Raptoran (which is the race I originally wanted. Raptorans are cool.) The fluff of JPM is that the moment one dies a new one is reborn, so when this one was Reincarnated the new one had to die, and I want to have the Necropolitan potential-but-not JPM be the cohort. Any suggestions on that front? Ideally, someone whose first few levels are either Initiator or Arcane Caster but then takes it in a direction that aids the main character somehow. I've thought of a Wizard X/Mage of the Arcane Order Y/Spelldancer 1/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4 to pass tons of Persisted Buffs, but I don't know if I want that for this character. Any other suggestions on that front, while we're here?