Wanting to shoot 14+ large sized greatswords with Telekinesis. (3.5 Wizard class)

[SmellyGoat]

My DM okayed using the Violent Thrust feature of the spell Telekinesis (PH 292) to shoot large sized greatswords at the enemy.

The problem is that I need to find a way to make all of those greatswords (up to 15) pointing at an enemy while remaining within 10ft of each other!

My original idea was to use the spell Servant Horde (SC 182) to use the servants to pull the greatswords out of a bag of holding and aim them at an enemy, resulting in a cool reusable sword cannon. Unfortunately after some calculations, my DM said that I could only fit 9 Unseen Servants within 10ft of each other, resulting in only 9 greatswords shooting at the enemy.

My next idea was to use a Portable Hole (DMG 264) as some sort of quiver and stuff the greatswords, pointy end up, inside of the hole. The problem there is that I need a portable surface to stick the hole on! I'd like to use an animated Tower Shield, and I could even use a Master's Touch spell to gain proficiency in Tower shields for 1 minute/level, but that 50% arcane spell failiure chance prevents me from using that strategy.

Does anybody have any ideas that would solve my predicament? I really want to stick large Fleshgrinding greatswords (MIC 35) inside of dragons from a distance!~

[jguy]

Just have them drop the swords in a square. The servants all act on one turn, so they can pile to 14 swords into one square. Dropping something is a free action so they can move, drop, and get out of way for others.

[Erik Vale]

^ Smart man.

Perhaps a modified efficient quiver?

You could have unseen servants carrying a riverene [or other] board which the portable hole/enveloping pit attaches to. Or an invisible/floating disk since your a wizard and that's probably simpler.

[Bluydee]

Here you go. (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/976801)

Or, if the link fails, just search "X-men's Jean Grey, or how to be silly with MotUH"

Technically not shooting more as attacking with, but it can give you some ideas for carrying the greatswords.

Edit: Soemwhere in there, I think, it says the greatsword carrying.

[jguy]

If you really want to annoy your DM look into Shrink Item (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shrink-item). It reduces something to 1/4000th of it's original volume and mass. Let's say we have 14 boulders that way 4000lbs. You cast shrink item on all of them so they weigh one pound and you put them in a bag for an unseen servant to carry. You order the unseen servant to dump them out when you want and Use Violent Thrust on them. When they are air born you yell your command word (Speaking is a free action) and whatever you are targeting has 14 2-ton boulders coming at their face.

[SmellyGoat]

Thanks guys! I think I will have one unseen servant hold a board with a Portable Hole attached aiming at an enemy. When the swords are shot, the rest of the unseen servants will be sent to retrieve and reload the sword-cannon! :D

I simply need to check with the DM.

@JGuy
Great idea, but I'll hold it off until epic level so I don't make my DM (and the other players in my party) pull their hair out!

[Nirhael]

The Violent Thrust version of Telekinesis caps at 15 objects and I'm pretty sure that throwing greatswords doesn't count as dealing damage to a creature in melee, not to mention the activation itself, Fleshgrinding isn't going to do any good... and there's also the 32k price tag on each of them.

How do you expect to do any damage to things with DR anyway?

[SmellyGoat]

Thank you for informing me of the object cap on Violent Thrust, I have edited my original post.

I haven't looked at Fleshgrinding, it was a passing thought a friend threw at me, so thank you for informing me of that as well.

The greatswords will be good for doing damage to things with high SR, or constructs that are immune to spells.

[Erik Vale]

Chain Greater Magic Weapon.
Special Materials.
Chain [Other Weapons Enchantments]

It'll be worth putting money in the everlasting wands [get them at higher CL, costly though] and metamagic rods.

[TuggyNE]

Thank you for informing me of the object cap on Violent Thrust, I have edited my original post.

I haven't looked at Fleshgrinding, it was a passing thought a friend threw at me, so thank you for informing me of that as well.

The greatswords will be good for doing damage to things with high SR, or constructs that are immune to spells.

Note that pretty nearly anything with infinite SR (golems) also has substantial DR, usually either adamantine (special greatswords) or - (yeah no). So this is not a foolproof plan.

[SmellyGoat]

Well, 3d6 damage per sword is quite a bit. Plus, I want to shoot greatswords at things, nothing wrong with that. :)

EDIT: Not to mention that most of my spells are focused on CC and battlefield control. Not including cantrips, I have a total of 3 damage spells out of 39 in my spellbook. I like to have a fun option for massive burst damage that uses the spells I already have.

[Nirhael]

Nothing wrong with shooting swords at things, but be wary of anything with DR, 3d6's average is 10.5 so a simple 10/adamantine, such as what most MM Golems have, is enough to completely cripple your damage.

[SmellyGoat]

Hm, are there any spells that enchant a weapon to overcome DR? I could chain said spell and solve the DR issue for good. If it can't be solved, I'm not too distraught. :smallsmile:

EDIT: I could make the greatswords transmuting.... My poor wallet T.T

[Erik Vale]

Metamagic Rod, Chain Spell, Lesser. [3/Day, affect level 3 or less spell with chain spell]
CL 14+ Everlasting Wand of Greater Magic Weapon. Grants 2 castings/Day [I think]

With those much cheaper options, you turn those 14[+] mundane great-swords into +3-5 Greatswords. You could use similar wands to apply Keen etc. With the feat that allows applying metamagic to wands you could extend the duration of the spell yourself or use your own CL [Persisted Chain Greater Magic weapon using CL [Yours] to be cheaper and powerful, drop cost of Everlasting Wands by reducing uses/day and only needing minimum CL on the wand, grab wands of other useful spells to apply the same to.]

And you can use any extra targets to effect the parties weapons.

All this should come from just the MIC.

Edit: I've heard of metamagic wand grips. Not sure how they work/details but they could be helpful.

[SmellyGoat]

Thanks for the suggestion! Where in the book does it give information about pricing for an Eternal Wand with a 3rd level spell at X caster level? I can't seem to find info on price adjust for caster level.

[TuggyNE]

Hm, are there any spells that enchant a weapon to overcome DR? I could chain said spell and solve the DR issue for good. If it can't be solved, I'm not too distraught. :smallsmile:

EDIT: I could make the greatswords transmuting.... My poor wallet T.T

Nah, just +3000 per greatsword for adamantine. It is expensive, but less so than a magic weapon property. That's actually what I was referring to earlier; DR /adamantine is fairly straightforward to overcome, but e.g. clay golem's DR 10/bludgeoning and adamantine is going to be annoying.

[SmellyGoat]

I could do that... Making the swords adamantine seems like a simpler option than buying a ton of wands.

[Erik Vale]

Thanks for the suggestion! Where in the book does it give information about pricing for an Eternal Wand with a 3rd level spell at X caster level? I can't seem to find info on price adjust for caster level.

There's nothing in book about changing price. However I'm pretty sure I found them to follow the crafting guidelines exactly despite the arcane casters use only provision , so I'm sure you could convince the GM to let you make/let you commission a eternal wand of higher caster level...
However, eternal wands creation is supposed to be lost to time, which is dumb and should go burn in hell. However the wands explicitly cap at third level, so if you want higher level spells you'd need something different.

Edit: or there's the feat. [S]Let be do a quick search.
Extra Edit: Apparently there's not a feat... I could have sworn there was.

[Techwarrior]

There's nothing in book about changing price. However I'm pretty sure I found them to follow the crafting guidelines exactly despite the arcane casters use only provision [so spell level*cl*1800/[6-Uses/day], so I'm sure you could convince the GM to let you make/let you commission a eternal wand of higher caster level...
However, eternal wands creation is supposed to be lost to time, which is dumb and should go burn in hell. However the wands explicitly cap at third level, so if you want higher level spells you'd need something different.


Not quite. There's also a material cost for the stick that gets imbued with the special property (which I believe is either 100 gp or 180 gp), otherwise they do. I also believe the -30% cost reduction for a 'restriction' was used, but on that I might be wrong. I'll go do the math really quick to find out exact numbers.

Edit:
A Command Word Item of a level 1 Spell with 2 charges per day would cost 720 gp. Exactly 100 gp less than an Eternal Wand.
A Command Word Item of a level 0 Spell with 2 charges per day would cost 360 gp. Exactly 100 gp less than an Eternal Wand.
A Command Word Item of a level 2 Spell with 2 charges per day would cost 4,320. Again, exactly 100 gp less than an Eternal Wand...
The third level wand follows the same pattern.

So an Eternal Wand costs (720*Spell level*Caster Level) +100 gp.

[Erik Vale]

Seems my memory was wrong. However, still a consistent formulae to work from.

[SmellyGoat]

Thank you, I'll run that equation past my DM and get some fancy greatswords. :smallsmile:

[icefractal]

Note that Greatswords are not your only option either. You just need something that weights 25 lbs or less. So for example, you could launch Colossal arrows, dealing the same 3d6 damage, but much lighter to carry and cheaper to make magical.

That's assuming weapon scaling caps out at Colossal btw - just based on weight, the arrows could go several sizes larger, dealing more damage. But that's in GM decision territory, and I wouldn't count on 24d6 projectiles being approved.

Another good choice is the Annulat (Planar HB). Deals 1d6, weight 0.5 lbs. So 4d6 (8 lbs) at Colossal size.

[SmellyGoat]

I've considered that, but me and my DM agree that arrows of that size are completely ridiculous and it would take the skills of a master Fletcher to even come up with the plans to make arrows of that size. Plus, do you remember the Blades spell from the Fable games? I kind of want to make an homage to that :3

But if it does come down to it, I could honestly just grab a bag of Holding and keep several different sized types of weapons to keep in my Portable Hole Cannon(tm).

Edit: Just to clarify, I would rather have each "projectile" be 20 lbs or less so my Unseen Servant Horde can reload the Hole-Cannon mid fight. :smallsmile:

[Nirhael]

Pretty sure ballista bolts can count as oversized arrows, doesn't take a genius to make those.

You don't even need to worry about velocity or anything at all really, you're using Telekinesis, might as well chuck sharpened tree trunks and it'll have the same effect.

[SmellyGoat]

That's true. I suppose I can have different projectiles that do different damage, 5 blunt weapons, 5 slashing weapons, and 5 piercing weapons at CL15.

Does 5 huge mithral greatswords (4d6 damage, weighing 16lbs each), 5 gargantuan mithral warhammers (4d6 damage, weighing 20lbs each), and 5 colossal adamantine arrows (3d6+1 damage, weighing <20lbs each) sound good?

The damage output in total with mithral items assuming all things hit would be 55d6+15 damage. A substantial leap from 45d6+15 damage with all weapons being adamantine.

I feel like the damage tradeoff from making these weapons one size category larger might be worth not getting past DR/adamantine for 10/15 projectiles. :smalltongue:

EDIT: Although, if we fight some sort of golem, things would get a little ridiculous If I tried my cannon against something with DR/10 adamantine, I would do 55d6-85 damage with Mithral items vs. 45d6+15 damage with adamantine items. I'm not primarily DPS, so on second thought, I feel like a more reliable source of damage (adamantine weapons) would work best for my character.

What do you guys think?

[slaydemons]

Sorry to interrupt you guys but this is the most beautiful thing I have seen, If I could somehow do this on psion I need to learn how because it matches with something I did in my most recent adventure.

[Thealtruistorc]

Get something that functions as a cape, Slap the portable hole on it, hold it like a matador and then let loose!

If wu jens get telekinesis (onto which they apply auto-still), even better.

[Nirhael]

Depending on how much you're willing to invest, I really like the idea of +1 Spellstoring weapons (8k+base costs apiece), you can jam in a lot of spells into 15 weapons and it can be really, really interesting to use.

Something as simple as 15 10d6 Fireballs could be hilarious, if hitting the target is an issue, precast Unseen Servant and blast the poor thing, or if your DM doesn't let you, Quicken a Summon Monster I and use your trap monkey.

Edit: Scratch that, the activation may or may not be possible depending on reading and interpretation, too bad.

[Captnq]

Uh, If you are making weapons magical, why not just use the WSA teleporting (+1 Bonus)? They'll return to you where ever you go after they are:


A teleporting weapon returns through the Astral Plane to the creature that threw it

Sure sounds like your telekinesis is "throwing" them.

Or you could always add Flying. It turns each weapon into an animated object for a mere +1 bonus. Then they get an attack on their own after you fire them (BAB +0, I'm afraid) Or you could command them to use the standard action as a move action and the normal move action to double move and fly back to you. They have a fly speed of 30', so they could maneuver back to you within 60 feet. or fly up until they have line of sight with you (think 3 dimensionally) then use their second move action as a Run to fly 120' in a straight line back to you. So self reloading at 60 feet in cramped fighting and say 120 outdoors.

[Captnq]

GAH! I'm an idiot...

Don't worry about the reloading. Use...

OCANTHUS KNIFE
- PLANAR HANDBOOK (3.5)
Simple Light Melee Ammunition (Ocanthus Knife)
Cost: 450 gp
Alchemy DC: 25
Damage (s): 1d8
Damage (m): 2d6
Critical: 19-20/x2
Range: 10 ft
Weight: 1 lb
Type: P or S
Ocanthus knives are actually alchemically stabilized shards of magically charged black ice gathered from the fourth layer of Acheron. An ocanthus knife has all the melee weapon characteristics of a dagger, except for the following: On a successful strike, a Medium ocanthus knife deals 2d6 points of damage (a Small knife deals 1d8, and a Large knife deals 3d6). After striking a foe, the knife loses its stability and immediately shatters and melts, gone but for telltale oily residue.
Editor: Very expensive for a one use item. Under the rules, a version of this knife that wasn’t one use would be 22,500 gp. That’s a boat load of gold for only 2d6 damage. That said, it’s a one use knife which means you can enchant it like ammunition. So if you plan on killing someone and you are going to do it in one shot, and you don’t want a weapon to exist afterwards, this is the weapon for you. May I recommend assassination and slather on the nastiest Con damage poison you can find? Hell, add poison WSA on top of that. Also, it’s ammunition and a melee weapon, so that should lend to some interesting combinations. And don’t forget that daggers have range. May I recommend exit wound as well?


So, Weight... 16 lbs for a colossal sized Ocathus Knife. By the scale, four times the cost. so a lot of 50 will cost you 90,000 gp.
Expensive? Yes. But it's also 8d6 damage a knife. Plus they are considered ammunition, which allows you to put on interesting WSAs. +2 bonus for exit wound. does an extra 1d6 as it passes through your target and gives you a shot at anyone behind them. Exit wound is only usable on ranged weapons, so you can't use it on your oversized melee weapons. An here's the kicker...

You can save on the 90,000 gp by simply crafting it yourself. Yes, you need to find a supply of ice from the fourth layer of a nightmarish realm of eternal warfare amid clouds of flying razor blades of death, but think how much you'll save on overhead.

Also, since it's technically ammunition, you could get a hand crossbow with Quickloading. Quickloading gives the crossbow an extradimensional space for 100 bolts. No reason you couldn't make it an extra dimensional space for Ocathus Knives. Yes, the crossbow doesn't actually shoot. (No point in stringing it) But it could serve as a way for you to shoot your supply of oversized Alchemy Ice Knives, since a hand crossbow reloads as a free action. The hand crossbow could just spit out 15 knives into the air and you could then do your Telekinesis thing and next thing you know you got a fully automatic crossbow that shoots giant knives.

BOOM goes the dynamite!

[Captnq]

Depending on how much you're willing to invest, I really like the idea of +1 Spellstoring weapons (8k+base costs apiece), you can jam in a lot of spells into 15 weapons and it can be really, really interesting to use.

Something as simple as 15 10d6 Fireballs could be hilarious, if hitting the target is an issue, precast Unseen Servant and blast the poor thing, or if your DM doesn't let you, Quicken a Summon Monster I and use your trap monkey.

Edit: Scratch that, the activation may or may not be possible depending on reading and interpretation, too bad.

Well, there is a way...

CONFLAGRANT
- PLANAR HANDBOOK (3.5)
[CONFLAGRANT]
Price: 10,000 gp
Property: Throwing
Caster Level: 7th
Aura: Moderate (DC 18) evocation
Activation: Standard (mental) or Ranged Attack
Prerequisite: Flaming Burst
Range: 680 ft.
Area: 20-ft. radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half (DC 14)
Spell Resistance: Yes
This WSA retains the qualities of its prerequisite. In addition to its fiery traits, once per day the wielder can use fireball as a standard action. If the wielder wishes, he may choose to activate the fireball use for the day in conjunction with throwing the weapon (this attack does not require an extra standard action beyond making the ranged attack). In such a case, the fireball detonates only if the weapon successfully strikes its target.
Construction: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fireball, creator must be of the fire subtype
Editor (fireball): A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (in this case 7d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure. You point your weapon and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation). If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely. The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
Editor: It’s way more expensive then it has to be, but then again, it has the option to be fired as a fireball, or to attack and fireball. Combo attacks are always better.


So, using the conflagrant weapon from planar handbook, we can extrapolate the above WSA is only 10,000 gp to charge up 50 ocanthus knives. Since it reads "Activates when thrown" each knife would explode as a 7d6 fireball. Again, you have to use a weapon that is already a throwing weapon, but still.

[Nirhael]

Well, there is a way...

CONFLAGRANT
- PLANAR HANDBOOK (3.5)
[CONFLAGRANT]
Price: 10,000 gp
Property: Throwing
Caster Level: 7th
Aura: Moderate (DC 18) evocation
Activation: Standard (mental) or Ranged Attack
Prerequisite: Flaming Burst
Range: 680 ft.
Area: 20-ft. radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half (DC 14)
Spell Resistance: Yes
This WSA retains the qualities of its prerequisite. In addition to its fiery traits, once per day the wielder can use fireball as a standard action. If the wielder wishes, he may choose to activate the fireball use for the day in conjunction with throwing the weapon (this attack does not require an extra standard action beyond making the ranged attack). In such a case, the fireball detonates only if the weapon successfully strikes its target.
Construction: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fireball, creator must be of the fire subtype
Editor (fireball): A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (in this case 7d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure. You point your weapon and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation). If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely. The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
Editor: It’s way more expensive then it has to be, but then again, it has the option to be fired as a fireball, or to attack and fireball. Combo attacks are always better.


So, using the conflagrant weapon from planar handbook, we can extrapolate the above WSA is only 10,000 gp to charge up 50 ocanthus knives. Since it reads "Activates when thrown" each knife would explode as a 7d6 fireball. Again, you have to use a weapon that is already a throwing weapon, but still.

Sadly, I don't think that works since the activation is a Standard action, you'd have to activate it for every single thrown weapon and I rather doubt a DM would allow that.

[Jack_Simth]

It's actually a relatively easy solution, really. Get a donkey and a cart. Load them in the cart.

Also: You may want to consider Colossal Arrows, rather than Large Greatswords. When thrown via TK, they do damage as daggers of their size, which happens to be the same 3d6. Yes, they're destroyed on impact, but with arrows, you can enchant 50 of them at once via Greater Magic Weapon and Flame Arrow. Plus, of course, they're considerably less expensive.

If you want something reusable, you might consider Colossal Saighams, as they work out to 4d6.