Leap attack....Or shock trooper [3.5]

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys. So after mussing over melee builds I came across a bit off a problem. At 6th level, is it better to take leap attack or shock trooper? Both are sweet and I'm wondering which to take first.

[RavynsLand]

While this thread's up, can someone explain exactly why Shock Trooper is da best feat evar? I can see Leap Attack, but for some reason when I look at Shock Trooper it only seems okay.

[OldTrees1]

While this thread's up, can someone explain exactly why Shock Trooper is da best feat evar? I can see Leap Attack, but for some reason when I look at Shock Trooper it only seems okay.

Why is Shock Trooper liked so much:
Power Attack trades accuracy for damage. This means there is a limit to how much you will want to power attack for. Shock Trooper removes the limit by removing the accuracy penalty. So you go from Power Attacking for -3 at 15th level to Power Attacking for -15 at 15th level. That increases your damage 5-fold. So to anyone addicted to bigger and bigger numbers, Shock Trooper seems like a godsend.

[toapat]

If you have Dungeoncrasher 2/6: Shock Trooper

Otherwise: leap attack

the value of Shock Trooper is that when combined with Dungeon Crasher, those thick lines on the battlegrid? Thats not Drywall, thats a massive Cheesegrater. you combine Directed Bull Rush with it to angle the target against the wall and make a nice long red smear.

the value of heedless charge from Shock Trooper is that once it comes time to ubercharge, it makes your total attack penalty on a charge only -3 when using your full PA. If you connect, the target takes +60 damage before anything else

Whats the regional feat though that is typically desired?

[OldTrees1]

Whats the regional feat though that is typically desired?

You are thinking of the heavily debated Battle Jump. It either gives you a free full attack in addition to your pounce or it allows you to pounce from above without flight. The weaker interpretation has the stronger argument. This makes it a "waste of a feat" rather than an "automatic must take".

[toapat]

You are thinking of the heavily debated Battle Jump. It either gives you a free full attack in addition to your pounce or it allows you to pounce from above without flight. The weaker interpretation has the stronger argument. This makes it a "waste of a feat" rather than an "automatic must take".

depends on whether that double damage applies to Power attack for 600% investment on a 2h. otherwise its an alternate trigger for charge actions.

[da_chicken]

While this thread's up, can someone explain exactly why Shock Trooper is da best feat evar? I can see Leap Attack, but for some reason when I look at Shock Trooper it only seems okay.

Because with Shock Trooper, you just dump your AC and charge kill your opponents before they can strike back. Taking a +2 to hit and -10 to AC instead of -8 to hit to get +20 to damage, especially when you have pounce and extra attacks in some fashion, just makes your opponents explode.

If you've got BAB +11, Str 22, a +2 greatsword, Weapon Focus, pounce (full attack on a charge) and whirling frenzy (+4 Str, extra attack like Flurry of Blows, -2 to hit) Barbarian ACFs, you get 4 attacks on a charge:
(11 base + 8 Str + 2 enhancement + 1 focus + 2 charge - 2 whirling) = +22/+22/+17/+12 to hit for 2d6 + 2 enhancement + 12 Str vs AC 25 (average for CR 11) = ~66 damage

If you Power Attack for 2, which is the best:
(11 base + 8 Str + 2 enhancement + 1 focus + 2 charge - 2 whirling - 2 Power Attack) = +20/+20/+15/+10 to hit for 2d6 + 2 enhancement + 12 Str + 4 PA vs AC 25 = ~68 damage

With Shock Trooper, you can take -11 AC for +22 damage:
(11 base + 8 Str + 2 enhancement + 1 focus + 2 charge - 2 whirling) = +22/+22/+17/+12 to hit for 2d6 + 2 enhancement + 12 Str + 22 PA vs AC 25 = ~135 damage

That seems pretty good for a feat.

Source (http://donjon.bin.sh/d20/power/)

[Hurnn]

Shock trooper hands down. I would always take the dungeon crasher too, grab leap attack after your 2 mandatory barbarian levels.

[SowZ]

Shock trooper hands down. I would always take the dungeon crasher too, grab leap attack after your 2 mandatory barbarian levels.

You really only need one. And it should be your first level in a Fighter Build.

[Lokd0wn]

You really only need one. And it should be your first level in a Fighter Build.

Getting the 2nd level of Barb is usually worth it for Wolf Totem so you can grab Improved Trip without the relatively useless prereq of Combat Expertise.

[Necroticplague]

You are thinking of the heavily debated Battle Jump. It either gives you a free full attack in addition to your pounce or it allows you to pounce from above without flight. The weaker interpretation has the stronger argument. This makes it a "waste of a feat" rather than an "automatic must take".

Another interpretation of the feat I've seen is that it replaces all the movement restrictions with "must jump from above target", so it's still useful to avoid all the things that normally spoil charges, without being ridiculously powerful.

[Urpriest]

At 6th level specifically...Shock Trooper means you're Power Attacking for 6 points, getting 12 bonus damage on each attack. Let's say that without Shock Trooper, you're willing to only Power Attack enough to downgrade yourself to 3/4 BAB, so 2 points. Normally, that would be 4 bonus damage, which increases to either 6 or 8 with Leap Attack depending on how you read the feat. So unless you've got a really good to-hit already and are comfortable sacrificing more of it, Shock Trooper will give you more bang for your buck.