(3.5) Muckdweller Martial Adept

[Snowbluff]

Level 1!

Muckdwellers are tiny monstrous humanoid with -6 str, +6 Dex, -2 wis and cha. They have weapon finesse as a bonus feat.

I was thinking about doing a swordsage and grabbing Shadow Blade to add some damage.

What can you guys think to do with this?

[Tvtyrant]

Level 1!

Muckdwellers are tiny monstrous humanoid with -6 str, +6 Dex, -2 wis and cha. They have weapon finesse as a bonus feat.

I was thinking about doing a swordsage and grabbing Shadow Blade to add some damage.

What can you guys think to do with this?

Pretty awesome. Getting hit at level 1 would be really difficult, and you are going to hit extremely accurately. The biggest problem is you basically auto-fail when someone tries to grapple or trip you (size penalties.) Drow House Insignia Heart of Water may be your best option there.

[Snowbluff]

Pretty awesome. Getting hit at level 1 would be really difficult, and you are going to hit extremely accurately. The biggest problem is you basically auto-fail when someone tries to grapple or trip you (size penalties.) Drow House Insignia Heart of Water may be your best option there.

Good point. I'm not sure how the game I was thinking about applying this to will run items.

[Darrin]

You will probably need Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folk. Tiny-sized creatures have 0 reach, and thus can only attack things inside their own square. In order to attack another creature in melee, you need to enter their square, which provokes an AoO.

Underfoot Combat fixes this, but you can't qualify for it until ECL 7. The 10 ranks of Tumble also mean that unless you manage to get a bonus feat at exactly ECL 7, you may have to wait until ECL 9 to get it.

Aberration Blood + Inhuman Reach might help, but monstrous humanoids don't qualify for humanoid-only feats. You might be able to wrangle your way into it via Human Heritage and a cooperative DM, but at that point you're probalby better off just waiting to get Underfoot Combat.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Mourning Mutate (Dragon 359) counts as Aberrant Blood to qualify for more Aberrant feats, it is a level 1 only feat though.

[Doc_Maynot]

Alternatively there is this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20050704a) that says Aberrant Dragonmark could be used in place of Aberrant Blood.

[Snowbluff]

For reach, I could learn Spiked Chain until I get Underfoot combat (which was the direction I was planning on going with if I hit that level).

[Darrin]

For reach, I could learn Spiked Chain until I get Underfoot combat (which was the direction I was planning on going with if I hit that level).

Rules Compendium page 150:

"Tiny or smaller creatures gain no advantage from reach weapons."

This may be one of those cases where you want to ignore the Rules Compendium or handwave it with a houserule.

[Tvtyrant]

Rules Compendium page 150:

"Tiny or smaller creatures gain no advantage from reach weapons."

This may be one of those cases where you want to ignore the Rules Compendium or handwave it with a houserule.

I was super sad when I realized that you cannot use Willing Deformity: Tall unless you are a medium creature. Super sad, as a tiny muckdweller with 5+ ft. arms would be amazing.

[Snowbluff]

Rules Compendium page 150:

"Tiny or smaller creatures gain no advantage from reach weapons."

This may be one of those cases where you want to ignore the Rules Compendium or handwave it with a houserule.

What.

Why.

That makes no sense.

Also, my fantasies of little fairies in a phalanx with longspears is forever ruined.

[Doc_Maynot]

Probably seeing that reach weapons double reach, and zero times two is still zero?

[Snowbluff]

My problem is it being the rules compendium that way. If what you say is true (which is probably is), then what they wrote is a waste of time.

If they were going to have a specific passage, they should have put in a rule that let's them benefit.

Back on topic, maybe I should try a warblade style. Hmmm...

Warbler 1

1: Shadow Blade (Maybe I'll fight with a shortsword?)
F: Martial Stance: Child of Shadow
F: Martial Study: Shadow Blade Technique
Racial: Weapon Finesse (I'm in love with the fact it has that little b)

I'll wiggle underneath people. After blinding them. :smalltongue:

EDIT: I'm thinking maybe being a winter unseelie.

I could get into Duskblade, and follow in for JPM.

[The Viscount]

Don't forget to take Wolf Climbs the Mountain eventually. It'll finally be useful here.

[Snowbluff]

Maybe I should be a Tiger Claw Specialist, and spend all of my time bouncing around like Yoda! XD

[Elkad]

Rules Compendium page 150:

"Tiny or smaller creatures gain no advantage from reach weapons."

This may be one of those cases where you want to ignore the Rules Compendium or handwave it with a houserule.

Yeah, I've wiped that monstrosity of a rule away. (Not the only RC text I ignore...)

A Tiny creature takes a 2.5' square. Normal threat range should be the same (which isn't 5', so it's effectively zero).
With a standard reach weapon - longspear et al, they get 5'. If they get to what would be 20' for medium (via pike and deformity or something), Tiny would get 10' reach.

Diminutive creatures are 1', with 1' of reach, so they need 5x reach (25' for medium) to threaten adjacent squares.

Fine is 6", so they need 10x reach to threaten adjacent squares.

Take the Medium reach of the weapon and divide by 2, 5, or 10. Round down always.

Which matches up nicely with the base rules for creature sizes, except for the "0 feet" part. Just use the creature's actual height as it's reach instead, and round down to the nearest 5' increment.


Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures
Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2½ feet across, so four can fit into a single square. Twenty-five Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them.

You could build a system with much smaller squares (or abstract, even better) and work out a neater system, but it would break for Small creatures, since they currently have an exception and work the same as Medium.
Short (light?) weapons only threaten your own size or smaller, Standard threatens one size bigger, Reach threatens 2 sizes bigger, Double-reach (pike and spiked chain) threaten 3 sizes bigger, etc.
Run it backwards for smaller creatures inside your range to determine your donut. A Reach weapon can't hit creatures your own size if they are inside your guard. A standard can't hit creatures one size smaller if they are inside your guard.
If you don't threaten, you have to move past the enemy's guard (so AoO unless you have an avoidance method). What used to be a 5' step becomes "step past guard", either in or out, allowing you to change the range by one factor safely.

[daremetoidareyo]

The chameleon template LA+1, give 10 foot reach with your tongue.

[Thurbane]

Is there room in the build for Stoneblessed (goliath) 3/Barbarian 1? Take the racial sub level for Mountain Rage 1/day. You can be Large when you need to. :smalltongue: