OOTS #414 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Screech]

Wahoo an update just as i was surfing hehe so funny great work giant

And Yahtzee haha i didnt expect that hehe. i can never roll 5 of a kind either :)

[Megalomaniac2]

Ninjas= win.

Lich playing Yahtzee= uber-win.

Fantastic comic.

[Baru]

Grammar typo?
'As soon as he possible can'?
It's the first time I've seen one in this comic.

[ImperiousLeader]

Ah, a group of ninjas? Easy. It's not like Belkar can spot them though.

[Corp]

Those ninjas are quick on the job...though thought they don't like working together on a job...maybe there was a group rate or something :p

[heretic]

Yay ninjas! Boo (nonexistant) pirates!

[Grady]

Poor Hinjo, everything is already going wrong.

[KewlKat]

You know, purple doesn't seem like a terribly stealthy color for a ninja...

[Naltyrr]

another winner of a quote from :redcloak:

[Shott]

Wow. Things are gettin' good.

[FlawedParadigm]

Why is it that I'm not at all surprised to find that Xykon plays Yahtzee?

And when do we find out about Mr. Scruffy? Heh.

[Tilian]

I love multicolor ninja. They're so festive.

Well, this one eases my worries about high civilian casualties. It makes the odds quite a bit steeper though, if those nobles' forces were included in the plans from the last strip.

[Screech]

You know, purple doesn't seem like a terribly stealthy color for a ninja...


Haha yea was just thinkign the same thing what exacaly are they going to blend in with? a garden bed of petunias. :P

[Hushdawg]

You know, purple doesn't seem like a terribly stealthy color for a ninja...

Pfft.. they could be bright orange and Belkar couldn't spot them.
But apparently Roy spotted them all!

Must have put some ranks in Spot lately :)

[silvadel]

Azure city really seems messed up -- I wonder why the paladins deal with such blatant non-good in their midst. Deciding to not have ones forces fight to save the city from evil in the hopes that when the city falls you can come back and take the spoils is an evil act.

[Raistlin1040]

"I concur" As do I, Roy. Good comic Giant. Those samurai can be real pains. Not unlike our resident Monk-Fallen Paladin.

[skinkatlarge]

I was seriously wondering if Roy was gonna make his Spot check, if and when; glad the Rainbow Ninjas don't have that much going for them, at least.

Yay, Xykon! Hooray for overconfidence!

[Jooky]

Yahtzee!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[SPoD]

In a city where everything is blue or purple, purple and blue are perfectly reasonable colors for ninjas to wear.


Azure city really seems messed up -- I wonder why the paladins deal with such blatant non-good in their midst. Deciding to not have ones forces fight to save the city from evil in the hopes that when the city falls you can come back and take the spoils is an evil act.

Uh, the paladins aren't in charge of the city, one specific paladin is (and that just started today). According to the last strip, there are like 100 paladins in a city of half a million. They don't get to police the nobles.

[Alex Knight]

now now, those ninjas are just there to deliver condolences for the death of Lord Shojo. :smallbiggrin:

[heretic]

I love ninja battle scenes. Can't wait for a full strip of one. Also can't wait for Belkar's city limit restriction to get dis/pelled/missed.

BTW--The purple ones are discount ninjas. They're color-coded by price, the stealthier, the more expensive. :smallbiggrin:

[Ettlesby]

Hahah, sweet. I should hire multicolored ninjas the next time I formulate an assassination. Err...if, you know...I ever do...which is...unlikely...Hehehh...heh...

[Daedalus73]

Yahtzee!!!

Haha funny. :) I always win at that game too.

[Deuce]

I say they send Kubota (a popular lawn tractor brand btw) out to negotiate with the Lich. He'll make a cute zombie, maybe even a ghoul if he's lucky.

[Skippy]

Damn it! This will be a thougher battle than anyone suspected... I hope everything turns out all right...

Yahtzee!!! hehehehe...

[Turcano]

I wonder if the Inverse Ninja Law applies in the OotS universe:

"This was just a warning! Next time, our employers will only send one of us!"

[Athelian]

Yahtzee!

Gods praise Redcloak!

[Dabble]

Only one thing to say:

YAHTZEE!

Classic Zykon there.

I also love the multi-colored Ninja.

[SteveMB]

I wonder if this means Xykon already scryed what he needs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0411.html) or if he's given up watching the inside of a 10x10 cell

[pendell]

Azure city really seems messed up -- I wonder why the paladins deal with such blatant non-good in their midst. Deciding to not have ones forces fight to save the city from evil in the hopes that when the city falls you can come back and take the spoils is an evil act.

While I hate to say it, I think we've finally found a use for :miko: . It'd be strongly tempted to allow her to 'escape' from jail with orders to .. uhhmmm ... have a word with ... those nobles who fled the city in it's hour of greatest need, taking their warriors with them. Don't know if it's exactly evil or not, but it is cowardly.

Ninjas = way cool. Roy will whomp their low-level a**es.

Xykon pwning Redcloak at yahtzee -- also most cool.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Mr Teufel]

I think the ninjas are multicoloured because they come from/work for different noble houses.

[Haruki-kun]

YAHTZEE!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHA,
great comic

[sethdarkwater]

Somthing tells me Hinjo is going to sympathize with his uncle for the "temporary insanity" soon enough. And where the blazes is Mr. Scruffy?

[Axl_Rose]

Grammar typo?
'As soon as he possible can'?
It's the first time I've seen one in this comic.

No, that's a spelling error, not a grammatical one.

Unrelated...

Roy taking on 4 assassins, oohhh... =O

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Those ninjas are quick on the job...though thought they don't like working together on a job...maybe there was a group rate or something :p

Inverse ninja law applies to the payscale. They couldn't afford just one.

[Falkus]

Azure city really seems messed up -- I wonder why the paladins deal with such blatant non-good in their midst. Deciding to not have ones forces fight to save the city from evil in the hopes that when the city falls you can come back and take the spoils is an evil act.It seems more self-centered and short-sighted than actually malicious, I'd say borderline Lawful-Neutral.

[fruityjanitor]

Nice comic. And thank goodness for the Inverse Ninja Law.

Edit: And nice title. Heehee. Took me a minute to realize what it was referencing though.

[atteSmythe]

So, does the Inverse Ninja Law mean that ninja work like the Huntsmen of Annuvin?

[ref]

hehe, take that Hinjo. Now you're gonna be sad you don't have Miko to save your city.

[Tilian]

While I hate to say it, I think we've finally found a use for :miko: . It'd be strongly tempted to allow her to 'escape' from jail with orders to .. uhhmmm ... have a word with ... those nobles who fled the city in it's hour of greatest need, taking their warriors with them. Don't know if it's exactly evil or not, but it is cowardly.

That noble should be thankful Miko was in jail. Can you imagine if she and Hinjo had missed Roy and Shojo's conversation, which would probably place her at that meeting?

[fithi]

Yahtzee! *snicker*

Great Xykon moment, that.

[Magus]

I'm torn about something. I cannot decide whether the Sapphire Guard's vow of silence regarding the Gate just bit the defenders in the ass or not. On the one hand, they might have fought all the harder if they knew what was at stake (if only because there would be no place for them to run if Xykon breaks through). On the other, while I can't see how any of them could reasonably exploit that knowledge to their own gain it is plain that they would try to, and that could lead to a disaster.

[TinSoldier]

Nice comic. I knew there would be dissension from the nobles but I didn't think that they would abandon the city.

And of course, Hinjo can't tell the nobles what Xykon is actually after which ties his hands quite a bit.

This was an awesome comic, plot-wise. I really enjoyed it.

[spectheintro]

Brilliant comic. The last two panels had me laughing my ass off.

[Yzorth]

Nice comic. The nobles seem like asses and I can see how keeping them under control could be a pain in the ass.

[Dausuul]

So, does the Inverse Ninja Law mean that ninja work like the Huntsmen of Annuvin?

Eh, not quite. They get weaker when you put more of them together. They don't get stronger as you kill the others off.

The Inverse Ninja Law states that the effectiveness of a group of ninjas is inversely proportional to the size of the group--i.e., one ninja is a deadly threat, but a dozen together are cannon fodder and can be dispatched with ease. Since the last ninja of the dozen does not suddenly become as deadly as a ninja who was alone from the start, it's clear that dead ninjas still count toward the INL.

This suggests that it may be possible to protect yourself from assassination by surrounding yourself with dead ninjas at all times.

And yes, this was an excellent comic. I'm expecting at least one INL joke in the next one...

[Tyrmadris]

Agree with Fwiffo (coolest Spathi ever, BTW). Waaaay too many comparisons to modern events. Gotta love the "nobles" choice of approach there: "We refuse to help you fight to save our people, and we'll hold it against you if you lose." Also the "We know what's best when it comes to your job, just let us handle it."

Awesome comic, though, even though it's disconcerting to see the politicians act exactly the same, no matter the world.

[Yendal]

Multicolored Ninjas > Pirates

YAHTZEE!

[Steward]

Ha! See, I knew Shojo had a reason to be so crazy about his security. The two nobles rebelled and two panels later their ninjas attacked. They probably weren't even out of the room yet. That's incredible! Great comic, as usual.

[pendell]

This is going to be very hard to discuss and avoid "no modern politics" rule. The situation practically screams for analogies.

On the contrary, quite easy. Just do this:

1) Go to the 'history' section of your local library.
2) Search until you've found a decent historical analogy that matches the modern one you're thinking of.

Discuss the historical analogy. Also keep it dispassionate.

For instance, the willingness of the nobles to flee or fight in the face of evil .. this problem has been written about since Homer's time ...

"There are no compacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord."

From the Iliad. Hector, the Trojan king, was trying to make peace with Achilles. The above line was Achilles' answer ... no peace is possible with the implacable, and the attempt is mere foolishness.


Or perhaps we can look at the desperate effort of the late Byzantine empire to buy off the Ottomans ... right up until the point the Turks conquered ... indeed, practically annihilated ... them.

And then again, there's always a famous Kipling Poem (http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/K/KiplingRudyard/verse/english_history/danegeld.html) ...



It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say:—
“Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away.”

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we’ve proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.



And of course 'paying Danegeld' is exactly what the Nobles in OOTS are doing.

History! It's a wonderful thing, because people keep coming up with the same stupid ideas again and again and again! And because people never learn, the cycle continues, allowing those of us who read history to look on with a certain resigned cynicism, knowing exactly what's going to happen and knowing that there's not one da*n thing we can do about it.

But then again, that was known in Ancient Greece too, witness the tale of Cassandra.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[rosebud]

I was wonderng why Hinjo or Roy did not make the samurai the diplomat he so desired to be. Yay, zombie samurai!

But they could have handled that more diplomatically. I thought they would at least be bound to some form of honor that could be appealed to?

[HuoMaKe]

I love multicolor ninja. They're so festive.

Well, this one eases my worries about high civilian casualties. It makes the odds quite a bit steeper though, if those nobles' forces were included in the plans from the last strip.

Would that be "ninjae?"

Great comic man....I hate Yahtzee too....my grandparents have to cheat at it.

And isn't Hinjo the observant one?

[atteSmythe]

Eh, not quite. They get weaker when you put more of them together, but they don't get stronger as you kill the others off.

The Inverse Ninja Law states that the effectiveness of a group of ninjas is inversely proportional to the size of the group--i.e., one ninja is a deadly threat, but a dozen together are cannon fodder. Since the last ninja of the dozen does not suddenly become as deadly as a ninja who was alone from the start, it's clear that dead ninjas still count toward the INL.

Incidentally, the INL also applies to many other types of bad guys, like Forsaken in the Wheel of Time books.

And yes, this was an excellent comic. I'm expecting at least one INL joke in the next one...
Well, that's good. I wonder how long it takes a grouping to wear off. I'd guess one encounter. ;)

I'm not sure the Forsaken count, because at least when I stopped reading the Story that Never Ends, it seemed very difficult to keep any of them dead.

But I digress. Great comic!

[TinSoldier]

Yeah, I don't really see any congruence between the current comic and current events. Whatever.

[Zeb The Troll]

Nice comic. And thank goodness for the Inverse Ninja Law.

Edit: And nice title. Heehee. Took me a minute to realize what it was referencing though.I'm probably gonna kick myself for this, but I don't get the title reference. :smallconfused:

[pendell]

I'm torn about something. I cannot decide whether the Sapphire Guard's vow of silence regarding the Gate just bit the defenders in the ass or not.


I doubt it. My reading of the nobles is that they would have stolen the sapphire and handed it over.

Getting those people to fight is like asking wet wood to burn. It's just not in them. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Alysar]

You know, purple doesn't seem like a terribly stealthy color for a ninja...

I concur. Of course, the best color for stealthiness is dark green.


:smallbiggrin:10 points to anyone who can name the source:smallbiggrin:

[Wyborn]

Is Roy the most bad-ass person in the strip now?

I submit that he is.

[fruityjanitor]

I'm probably gonna kick myself for this, but I don't get the title reference. :smallconfused:

"No news is good news"

:smallsmile:

[TinSoldier]

Or, "No Bull is Good Bull", a play on the word "Noble".

[Gyron]

Lets play match the Ninja with the lord. Someone else go first.

[Brother_Hood]

Late Night posting, Hm.

I wonder if Shinjo didn't breed this attitude into his nobles with is faux-senile act.

[Alysar]

Lets play match the Ninja with the lord. Someone else go first.

Purple ninja = Daimyo Kubota (Mustache Lad)

[Tilian]

Ha! See, I knew Shojo had a reason to be so crazy about his security. The two nobles rebelled and two panels later their ninjas attacked. They probably weren't even out of the room yet. That's incredible!

Yeah, maybe now some people will give Shojo a little more slack over his deceptions. He worked with what he was given.

[Zeb The Troll]

"No news is good news"

:smallsmile:


Or, "No Bull is Good Bull", a play on the word "Noble".Thanks. Not sure I would have pieced that together very soon.

Now the funny part...

Ever seen a troll try to kick himself?

<starts to stretch> :smallcool:

[rosebud]

Or perhaps we can look at the desperate effort of the late Byzantine empire to buy off the Ottomans ... right up until the point the Turks conquered ... indeed, practically annihilated ... them.Huh? Byzantium was annihilated at least as much by the Europeans as by the Turks. And in the end Byzantium was desperately trying to get a Europe to help out, but Europeans were too busy killing off their neighbors to worry about killing off people in farther away lands.


It's a wonderful thing, because people keep coming up with the same stupid ideas again and again and again! And because people never learn, the cycle continuesHistory is never quite so simple nor so unbalanced. And I don't quite recall the god-killing monster in tale of Homer. :smallsmile: Homer kills Heros, but not the Gods. The (modern series) Belgariad has the death of a God, but not of an entire pantheon. And none of them used crayons!

[Steward]

I'm probably gonna kick myself for this, but I don't get the title reference. :smallconfused:

I think it's based on the old saying, "No news is Good news," except that the word 'news' is replaced with the sound 'ble', to make it "No ble is Good ble." Of course, that doesn't make any sense so you push it together to create 'Noble is Goodble'.

[Eli_Gamir]

I like Hinjo's smug expression as :roy: pulls back Mustache Lad in the 5th panel. :smallbiggrin:

[TinSoldier]

Thanks. Not sure I would have pieced that together very soon.

Now the funny part...

Ever seen a troll try to kick himself?

<starts to stretch> :smallcool:Heh. Not to second guess the author, but maybe "Noblesse Oblige" would have made a better title.

[416365416c]

Lets play match the Ninja with the lord. Someone else go first.
The one I can't place is the one from comic #289 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0289.html). Unless there have been significant changes since then, there is still at least one noble and ninja death squad unaccounted for.

As for the comic, I found it both hilarious (The interludes with Xykon are always very amusing) and dramatically effective. Not to mention we are still kept in suspense about what will happen during the battle.

[1337_master]

Heh, Yatzee

[rosebud]

I doubt it. My reading of the nobles is that they would have stolen the sapphire and handed it over.They'd die before the paladins would let that happen.


Getting those people to fight is like asking wet wood to burn.I hear Xykon's army protects a lot of TREASURE. Who doesn't want to get more TREASURE? And XP. Don't forget the XP! Hey, surely Haley doesn't have a maxxed bluff score for nothing? :smallsmile:

[MandoFTR]

Now if only their were Mandalorians in OOTS' campaign world.

THEY would show them Zombies a right good arse kickin'.

[it17]

Xykon already has his battle plan figured out, Just not letting Redcloak in on it as usual. The game is his 8 hours rest to regain spells as he does not have to sleep.

[Winged One]

If the ninjas' positions indicate that they're just spillage from a much larger force, I give them 3 rounds tops before Roy finishes Great Cleaving them. The Inverse Ninja Law, also known as the Law of Conservation of Ninja, is universal.


I concur. Of course, the best color for stealthiness is dark green.


:smallbiggrin:10 points to anyone who can name the source:smallbiggrin:


That would be a reference to Night Watch, specificly the stealth techniques discovered, and subsequently employed on their own source, by Havelock "Dog Botherer" Vetinari.

[Shadic]

Hinjo + Roy = Awesome characters together.

[Callista]

Wow, Hinjo's really in trouble now. Not only is his city way outnumbered by hoboblins, but the nobles are taking their samurai with them. If those samurai represent any appreciable number of defenders, Azure city could be in even worse trouble than before.

[The Glitter Ninja]

A brief glimpse of Xykon and friends is awesome enough, but that they're playing Yahtzee just makes my cockles all warm.

[fwiffo]

Yeah, maybe now some people will give Shojo a little more slack over his deceptions. He worked with what he was given.

Yeah. Considering what he had to work with, Shojo's skill is even more remarkable. The guy knew how to get his way no matter who he dealt with. Hinjo is darn good and would very likely come to appreciate (and emulate) his uncle's methods in time. Time that he doesn't have.

And that makes actions of she-who-should-not-be-mentioned all the more harmful. I know her type all too well - they are so caught up in their little causes that they completely fail to see what a remarkable job those who are subject of their scorn doing to accomplish the good that they do.

[Dervag]

Got to love the ninja attack.

[Senko]

Sadly I'm not surprised to see the nobles jockying for power its a common thing still I do have to wonder

Whether the Samurai will actually follow them. Will their loyalty to their lord outweigh their loyalty to their ruler and honour of their city.

Incidently I've always taken the approach (in fantasy realms) that the brighter the colour the better the ninja. Anyone can sneak around in black or dark clothing unnoticed but it takes a real ninja to acomplish the same feat in neon pink.

I disagree about their sending Kabuto out to face Xykon because he probably would have just given away anything in exchange for a place in the new world order. Nice one liner by Roy though.

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

Ninjas? What ninjas? I read the comic thrice already and I just can't seem to find any ninjas....

Also, thank God for overly humourous bad guy "meanwhile....." scenes!

[Callista]

I don't think Hinjo would resort to tricking the nobles. He seems like more of a "diplomacy" type to me.

[Alysar]

Now if only their were Mandalorians in OOTS' campaign world.

THEY would show them Zombies a right good arse kickin'.

Great. Now we're going to get a boatload of Mandalorian stick figure avatars tomorrow.

[Behold_the_Void]

Thoroughly enjoyed this one. Ninja death squads amuse me.

[The Extinguisher]

Ninjas? What ninjas? I read the comic thrice already and I just can't seem to find any ninjas....


Epic win for Fullbladder!

Anyway, I think this can be summed up in one sit-com tagline. "Those Crazy Nobles"

[slayerx]

a gotta love the ninja assasins... Hinjo must be having a great first day
And should have seen that coming from the nobles... not the ninjas, saw that coming... but the putting themselves before the rest of Azure City

Idea of how Roy might be able to get back the support of those damn nobles
He could go to them telling him that Hinjo agreed to send a messanger to negotiate with Xykon... it is then that he revels that what Xykon wants is ALL of Azure cities resources and treasures along with the lives of all the nobles and ruling families, stating that what Xykon wants is to first, bolster his forces with treasure and undeed, and second to destory the ruling classes in every kingdom as proof of his might... Roy can also throw in that Xykon will not rest until all the nobles are dead, so running will do them no good... being the selfish bastards that they are, they will not be willing sacrifice their lives and noble power, thus they have their samurai fight.

ofcourse Hinjo could never approve of such a lie, but what he doesn't know won't hurt him =p

[Tobimaro]

Looks like Hinjo's reign might be a short one, at least if certain nobles have their way.

Yahtzee references? I wonder if Rich might aim for a Republic of Rome game reference next? :smallwink:

But knowing him and his humor, he might go for the Game of Life. :smalltongue:

[Arcane_Secrets]

Somthing tells me Hinjo is going to sympathize with his uncle for the "temporary insanity" soon enough. And where the blazes is Mr. Scruffy?

If Shojo had to deal with that for decades on end, I'm surprised he actually had to fake it. :smallbiggrin:

[dragon95046]

Or, "No Bull is Good Bull", a play on the word "Noble".

That was how I read it when I first looked at it.

[Mawhrin Skel]

It looks to me as though the troops discussed in #413 did not include those loyal to the daimyo, only those loyal directly to the ruler of AC. I could very well be wrong though.

Lien has orders to commandeer any private ship she can. Will she commandeer the vessels the daimyo wished to escape in? Will they thus be trapped?


I think the ninjas are multicoloured because they come from/work for different noble houses.
That was my first thought. Then I thought that a ninja (or any assassin) really ought not advertise his employer.


Would that be "ninjae?"
"Ninja" or "ninjas" would both be acceptable English language pluralisations of "ninja". Japanese (and at least some other East Asian languages) do not have plural forms of nouns.

"Ninjae" would only be correct if the word "ninja" derived from ancient Greek (or is that Latin? I used to study these languages but appear to have exorcised them from my brain), which it does not.

[Tilian]

That was my first thought. Then I thought that a ninja (or any assassin) really ought not advertise his employer.


Ah, but if they were to wear the colors of their employer's rivals...

Then again, that ploy would probably quickly become transparent given all the backstabbing going on. Anyone willing to make an accusation based on that would probably get more ridicule and scorn than aid.

[Baru]

Grammar typo?
'As soon as he possible can'?
It's the first time I've seen one in this comic.

What hasn't the Giant fixed this yet...
...unless Roy suddently lost some ranks in linguistics.

[Miklus]

This suggests that it may be possible to protect yourself from assassination by surrounding yourself with dead ninjas at all times.


That would work. Imagine a ninja sneaking up on a sleeping V.I.P. and seeing two dozen dead ninjas lying about the place. He's gonna think "WOW what a super deadly V.I.P! I better sneak on home. :smallbiggrin:



It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say:—
“Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away.”
And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we’ve proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.


We will eat your food first, then steal your women, and only then go home! :smallwink:

"Bury your gold and lock up your women, the danes are coming!" :smalltongue:

[GoldenKitsune]

See, this is why ever singel NPC in Azure city should be thankful that their world is based on DnD instead of L5R.

[PaladinFreak]

I doubt that the nobles are prepared for a level 13-15 Fighter...

[rosebud]

I disagree about their sending Kabuto out to face Xykon because he probably would have just given away anything in exchange for a place in the new world order. Nice one liner by Roy though.

Hmmmmm.....


:xykon:You wish to surrender?
:confused: Lord, I wish to negotiate on behalf of the mighty City of Azure.
:xykon:That's a new one. I'll have to remember that. Redcloak, please take care of him.
:redcloak: Slay living!
:redface: ...
:xykon:Zombie samurai! Why didn't I think of that earlier?
:roach: What happens if you kill enough Samurai?
:roach: What?
:roach: Something may go awry!
:roach: Was that supposed to be funny?
:redface: ...

[Aerysil]

At least Roy didn't fail his Spot check.

[Lord Zentei]

Agree with Fwiffo (coolest Spathi ever, BTW). Waaaay too many comparisons to modern events. Gotta love the "nobles" choice of approach there: "We refuse to help you fight to save our people, and we'll hold it against you if you lose." Also the "We know what's best when it comes to your job, just let us handle it."

I'd say that this sort of behaviour in politics is pretty universal; there's no need for modern analogies.


Yeah, I don't really see any congruence between the current comic and current events. Whatever.

And I concur with this statement.


On another note, Xykon really needs a Lord Hamster to lead his armies. Yahtzee, lol.


See, this is why ever singel NPC in Azure city should be thankful that their world is based on DnD instead of L5R.

Fnord?

[MandoFTR]

Great. Now we're going to get a boatload of Mandalorian stick figure avatars tomorrow.

... That's bad?

[Estelindis]

Excellent strip! Lots of plot goodness packed in as we see the last stages of planning the defence of Azure City... ...and how it all goes horribly wrong. Poor Hinjo! Bah, selfish nobles... Ninjas arrived pretty quickly. Wonder if the nobles had already arranged for them when they were standing at Hinjo's coronation.

And yes: Redcloak's line on yahtzee was stunningly good.

[Jewel Thief]

I Want Ninja Fights!

[Balance]

This suggests that it may be possible to protect yourself from assassination by surrounding yourself with dead ninjas at all times.

Effective, yet smelly. :smallyuk:

"YAHTZEE!" caught me completely off guard. I'm still snickering at it intermittently.

You know, assuming Azure City survives the invasion, Hinjo likely has grounds to try those nobles for treason, even if he can't prove they sent the ninja. With enough executions, he may not have to fake (extremely) early-onset dementia. :roy:

[fractal]

I really think some ultimatums are called for on Hinjo's part, if the soldiers of those lords are important. "If you abandon Azure City in its hour of need, but we somehow triumph anyway, then you will have forfeited X, Y, and Z." The actual substance of X, Y, and Z depends upon what the laws of Azure City allow, but I bet the ruler has some leeway in that regard. At the very least, give favored status to those lords who actually do help.

Make it clear to the lords that their participation matters more to them than just the marginal improvement in Azure City's probability of victory.

[Lord Zentei]

Is Roy the most bad-ass person in the strip now?

I submit that he is.

Well, that is appropriate, given that he is the hero of the tale. :smallwink:


While I hate to say it, I think we've finally found a use for :miko: . It'd be strongly tempted to allow her to 'escape' from jail with orders to .. uhhmmm ... have a word with ... those nobles who fled the city in it's hour of greatest need, taking their warriors with them. Don't know if it's exactly evil or not, but it is cowardly.

Or, given that her grip on reality is a bit tenous, the nobles might get that idea first, with a slightly different emphasis.

Meaning: "Help us get rid of the fool that intends to doom us all! Clearly he is deceived by Xykon and Greenhilt, since he intends to take Azure City into an unwinnable war, and thus sell us all to the Lich.

[DarkLightDragon]

As probably multiple people have said, there is a typo in the comic. That should be "possibly" instead of "possible".

[Castamir]

:xykon:That's a new one. I'll have to remember that. Redcloak, please take care of him.

This is so wrong. Xykon and... "please"? Come on...

[Turcano]

Now if only their were Mandalorians in OOTS' campaign world.

THEY would show them Zombies a right good arse kickin'.

Mandalorians can show just about anyone a right good ass kicking. Except for jedi, in most cases. Which means that a Mandalorian jedi would be death on legs.

[Golem]

Well, that is appropriate, given that he is the hero of the tale. :smallwink:


OBJECTION.

A hero. A hero of the tale. What are Elan, Haley, Bel--um--Vars, and the resident cleric, chopped liver?

[Lord Zentei]

OBJECTION.

A hero. A hero of the tale. What are Elan, Haley, Bel--um--Vars, and the resident cleric, chopped liver?

Yup. :smalltongue:

Nah, seriously, its a matter of Luke Skywalker versus the rest of the gang. The others may be heroes, but Roy is first among equals.

[Aimbot]

I don't think the INL benefits Roy here, and this is why:
We've already established that the abilities of ninja don't go up when ninja are subtracted, through death. Logically, that must mean that at some point the level of power a ninja holds is fixed. It seems to me that that level would be decided when the ninja master decides how many ninja he should send. Unfortunately these ninja seem to be sent by differing lords. If my reasoning is correct Roy might be fighting five ninja with a NL of 1/1 each, rather than five ninja with a NL of 1/5 each.

[Alfryd]

New comic is up.
Pretty good. Continue.

[Bakta]

Maybe the ninjas are here because Hinjo is the reason behind Meatloaf day??

[Pantler]

I find the shortsightedness of the nobles... Disturbing. It's way too dangerous and at the same time, it's believable.
Gah, now I'm worried about the fate of a fictional comic town! :smallbiggrin:

[Delgarde]

I wonder if the Inverse Ninja Law applies in the OotS universe:

Probably - it's always seemed a fairly universal rule...

[Delgarde]

I don't think the INL benefits Roy here, and this is why:
We've already established that the abilities of ninja don't go up when ninja are subtracted, through death. Logically, that must mean that at some point the level of power a ninja holds is fixed. It seems to me that that level would be decided when the ninja master decides how many ninja he should send. Unfortunately these ninja seem to be sent by differing lords. If my reasoning is correct Roy might be fighting five ninja with a NL of 1/1 each, rather than five ninja with a NL of 1/5 each.


Nice reasoning, but I think they'd need to be fighting each other as well as Roy if they were all to be high-powered ninja. Seems to me it's simply a matter of how many of them are on the same side of a confrontation, and in this case it's Roy vs the collective others.

Incidentally, there only appear to be four ninja in the panel, not five. I guess you made a spot check the Giant didn't? :)

[dcviana]

Say for example 4 nobles hire each one just one ninja to kill the king. There are four "just one ninja" here, but they make it to the castle at the same time. Does the inverse ninja law apply? Does those four "just one deadly ninja" turn into "four cannon fodder ninja"?

[Alfryd]

It makes the odds quite a bit steeper though, if those nobles' forces were included in the plans from the last strip.
Y'know, this would be an *excellent* time for Hinjo to put his executive-branch foot down and conscript those Nobles' retinues on pain of 'emminent domain' viz-a-viz their estates.
Probably impractical, though.

I say they send Kubota (a popular lawn tractor brand btw) out to negotiate with the Lich. He'll make a cute zombie, maybe even a ghoul if he's lucky.
Sheer brilliance! Kill two birds with one stone! In fact, send all the nobles out!
No more interfering rival houses, and you can seize the remainder of their armed forces!

It seems more self-centered and short-sighted than actually malicious, I'd say borderline Lawful-Neutral.
Yeah. Like abandoning Elan to the bandits.


Grammar typo?
'As soon as he possible can'?
I also note with dismay the 'make due' typo is still present in panel 4 of 413.

Not to second guess the author, but maybe "Noblesse Oblige" would have made a better title.
Agreed.

[Morbidian]

Say for example 4 nobles hire each one just one ninja to kill the king. There are four "just one ninja" here, but they make it to the castle at the same time. Does the inverse ninja law apply? Does those four "just one deadly ninja" turn into "four cannon fodder ninja"?

Yes, inverse ninja law applies simply by their proximity to one another. And Roy has boobies...I mean Great Cleavage...so this should be over in about one or two rounds if that's all the ninja that were sent.

[Lord Zentei]

Y'know, this would be an *excellent* time for Hinjo to put his executive-branch foot down and conscript those Nobles' retinues on pain of 'emminent domain' viz-a-viz their estates.
Probably impractical, though.

And it's not entirely certain that he can actually legally do that in any case. What with all the trouble Shojo had with them, I get the impression that the nobles have considerable autonomy.

[TheAnimal]

Pop(?) culture reference ahoy:
Kubota (http://www.kubota.com/f/home/home.cfm) is a manufacturer of excavators and other utility vehicles. Hence "Kubota" is a fitting name for a Daimyo who's trying to undermine his Shogun.
Things are really looking grim for the newly appointed Lord Hinjo. :smallfrown: The city is just about to go all sengoku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sengoku_period).
Not to mention the impending horde of hobgoblins and undead.

A wishful prediction:

The only way Hinjo can deal with the rebelling daimyo(s?) is to "Cry havoc!; Let slip the halfling :belkar: of war!" :smallbiggrin:
Of course, he'd have to pair him with someone who is better at making a Spot check, like maybe the blindfolded seer. :smallannoyed:
For his service to the crown, he could gain amenity.


Got to love :roy: pulling off his "straight man" role... Nonchalantly fending off a horde of ninjas and somehow compacting the entire annoyance of "Oh, gee whiz, thanks for pointing that out, Captain Obvious" into a sardonic "I concur." :smallbiggrin:
He kinda reminds me of Wanda here. (She has even greater cleavage, though. :smallwink: )

[Aramil]

Ninja Death Squad + Yahtzee = Great Comic

The nobles can't be removed, if they could I'm certain Shojo would have done it already. Anyhow I'm sure Roy could beat any ninja sent by the nobles. Also maybe they should let Miko loose on Xykons army?

[Alfryd]

Also maybe they should let Miko loose on Xykons army?
I wouldn't count on it.

[TheAnimal]

Also maybe they should let Miko loose on Xykons army?
Oh, you mean like shoot her in the middle of them from a catapult? :smalltongue:
Doesn't really sound a LG thing to do. I mean, hobgoblins are humans (well, humanoids) too!
*enter obligatory remark regarding "cruel and unusual punishment" here* :smallbiggrin:

[Senko]

In regards to Shojo removing them I'd like to point out that he had noble's being fractious (I assume that he couldn't prove who sent the ninja death squads) but here Hinjo has an obvious act of treason in a time of war.

[J.Gellert]

Xykon is too adorable...

[Xenon]

ah, i see hinjo dosent have any ranks in spot either :)

[Mordaedil]

I sort of see the point of the purple mustache lad (Kubota), somewhat. It is an option they have not explored, and I wager sending Miko in as an diplomatic envoy might at least keep them a bit more open-minded, though I would probably explain why they can't give away what the army wants.

[Freelance Henchman]

Hooray for the multicolored ninja swarm!

Hinjo and Roy really work well together, although they're both "straight men" (er... you know what I mean).

[Lord Zentei]

I sort of see the point of the purple mustache lad (Kubota), somewhat. It is an option they have not explored, and I wager sending Miko in as an diplomatic envoy might at least keep them a bit more open-minded, though I would probably explain why they can't give away what the army wants.

Certainly it is a reasonable position for one who doesn't know what the war is really about; and if their chances of victory are only 50-50, the desire to attempt to save as many of your dependents as possible is understandible.

Though he is being self serving tool at the same time, of course.

[mikeejimbo]

Thank goodness for the inverse ninja law, Roy should have no problem.

[pendell]

Yup. :smalltongue:

Nah, seriously, its a matter of Luke Skywalker versus the rest of the gang. The others may be heroes, but Roy is first among equals.

Think so?

*I* think Elan is the hero. Why? 'cause this is a comedy. The model I'm thinking of is the 'Scooby Doo' cartoon show. The Mystery Gang was led by a tall, handsome, blonde leader-type very much like Roy, but the show centered on the antics of the cowardly Shaggy and Scooby. They, after all, were funny.

This is a comedy. The central characters are the comedic actors ... Elan and Belkar. Roy and Xykon primarily exist to provide the overlying story framework that the funny characters than relentlessly lampoon.
Respectfully,

Brian P.

[pendell]

That would work. Imagine a ninja sneaking up on a sleeping V.I.P. and seeing two dozen dead ninjas lying about the place. He's gonna think "WOW what a super deadly V.I.P! I better sneak on home. :smallbiggrin:



We will eat your food first, then steal your women, and only then go home! :smallwink:

"Bury your gold and lock up your women, the danes are coming!" :smalltongue:

Miklus FTW!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[ZekeArgo]

hehe, take that Hinjo. Now you're gonna be sad you don't have Miko to save your city.

What?! Have you been reading the comic? Instead of the ability to jump as far as you want only it applies to conclusions, do you have the one that lets you ignore age penalties, but for you it applies to facts?

Miko fell because of her own actions. She was *wrong*. Hinjo didn't make her fall, hell he offered her a damn good deal at redemption and she nearly killed him for it.

Miko the "fighter-without-bonus-feats" would not have been much of a help in this situation even if she hadn't attempted murder twice after murdering the old man and accepted Hinjo's offer.

[EntilZha]

Those ninja death squads don't fool around. :smallbiggrin:

Johnny on the spot those guys, lol!!

[Alfryd]

Certainly it is a reasonable position for one who doesn't know what the war is really about; and if their chances of victory are only 50-50, the desire to attempt to save as many of your dependents as possible is understandible.
If evacuating said dependants potentially means tipping that 50/50 balance for the thousands of innocents left behind, it's still effectively evil.

[EntilZha]

I sort of see the point of the purple mustache lad (Kubota), somewhat. It is an option they have not explored, and I wager sending Miko in as an diplomatic envoy might at least keep them a bit more open-minded, though I would probably explain why they can't give away what the army wants.

Diplomatic solution? What kind of crazy talk is Kubota spewing out? Xykon doesn't negotiate. He takes what he wants. Destruction of life and property are fringe benefits of the process.

[unstattedCommoner]

Y'know, this would be an *excellent* time for Hinjo to put his executive-branch foot down and conscript those Nobles' retinues on pain of 'emminent domain' viz-a-viz their estates.



And it's not entirely certain that he can actually legally do that in any case.

Depending on the type of tenure, if your liege lord requires you to provide feudal levies (or payment in default), you will do so or forfeit your fief. If you forcefully resist this process, that's probably treason.

Alternatively, I cannot imagine a scenario where the state cannot appropriate property for use in national defence - on payment of just compensation, of course.


What with all the trouble Shojo had with them, I get the impression that the nobles have considerable autonomy.

Whether your liege lord's law enforcement personnel are sufficiently powerful to dispossess you if you do refuse is another matter, and except in times of dire national emergency (such as now), it's probably not in his interest to press the point.

Are these nobles immune or resistant to Summon Conscience, or has Hinjo used his daily allotment?

[Willahad]

Considering that there are lots of ninjas, Roy souldn't have a problem with them

[Pronounceable]

Redcloak is da goblin!

[Akaziel]

So that's why Shojo fakes senility... Will Hinjo follow his uncle's footsteps?

[Estelindis]

Diplomatic solution? What kind of crazy talk is Kubota spewing out? Xykon doesn't negotiate. He takes what he wants. Destruction of life and property are fringe benefits of the process.
Precisely. From the point of view of someone who knows nothing of Xykon, it makes no sense to jump into a war without negotiating first, so I thought Kubota's words made sense at first...
...but, even when it was explained to him that Xykon's an evil, heartless lich (although they couldn't explain the full danger to reality because of the Sapphire Guard's oath of secrecy), he insisted on disregarding Hinjo's authority and endangering Azure City even more by withdrawing his troops and not letting his ship be used to evacuate those who can't fight (although Lien may have something to say about that).

[fwiffo]

So that's why Shojo fakes senility... Will Hinjo follow his uncle's footsteps?

If he survives this, he will have to. When you are dealing with the people who would rather go against you than against what should be your common enemy, then you have no choice but to do as Shojo did. In a job like that you learn that deception might be the only way to do what needs to be done; and that your worst enemies are not the ones who wage war on you, but the ones that are supposedly on your side, but backstab you whenever you get a chance.

The "May the twelve gods forgive you if Azure City falls when under your rule" line was a nice touch. Backstabbing your ruler while saying that if the city falls, it would be his fault is very much in line with what people like that do.

[Cyborg Pirate]

Oooooooooo dayum. Love the last panel!

[Carteeg_Struve]

Considering how Xykon negotiated with the unions way early on, I don't think the nobles will present a problem for much longer. Just a few more ex-arbitrators that will need to be turned by a cleric.


"...brains.... under what terms of a peaceful resolution will you hand over your brains...?" ;)

[Blood]

Poor Redcloak, always being upstaged. Sometimes Xykon-Redcloak seems a little bit like Thog-Nale. :smalleek: :smallbiggrin:

How come Hinjo and Roy didn't just explain to those idiots that the fate of the world rests on that sapphire, and if Xykon gets it, he will kill everyone/rule the universe/do whatever the hell he wants?

Because that would mess up the plot.

Bah! I don't concur!

[Xeticus]

Agree with Fwiffo (coolest Spathi ever, BTW). Waaaay too many comparisons to modern events. Gotta love the "nobles" choice of approach there: "We refuse to help you fight to save our people, and we'll hold it against you if you lose." Also the "We know what's best when it comes to your job, just let us handle it."

Awesome comic, though, even though it's disconcerting to see the politicians act exactly the same, no matter the world.

However Hinjo also does not seem power mad, isolated, paranoid, has very good reasons why not to listen to his nobles and has an IQ greater than a shrub. Azure City is lucky to have a bright, talented, idealistic young leader like him. It's refreshing to see someone in a position of power who actually seems competent.

So where is Mr. Scruffy? Don't rangers get animal companions also? Go Team Belkar!

[Aramil]

Mr.Scruffy should be the Azure City Army mascot that would boost morale when under threat of an undead horde!

[fwiffo]

How come Hinjo and Roy didn't just explain to those idiots that the fate of the world rests on that sapphire, and if Xykon gets it, he will kill everyone/rule the universe/do whatever the hell he wants?

Because that would mess up the plot.

Because the chances of that succeeding are slim and none. All it would do is convince the nobles that their new king is scaremongering, and so should not be trusted.

Or they would think he's gone soft in the head. After holding the reigns for only few hours, he is now saying that if they don't support him and his warlike ways, the world would end??! Yeah, right! That's just a transparent grab for extra power on Hinjo's part, and not a very plausible one at that.

[Lord Zentei]

Think so?

*I* think Elan is the hero. Why? 'cause this is a comedy. The model I'm thinking of is the 'Scooby Doo' cartoon show. The Mystery Gang was led by a tall, handsome, blonde leader-type very much like Roy, but the show centered on the antics of the cowardly Shaggy and Scooby. They, after all, were funny.

This is a comedy. The central characters are the comedic actors ... Elan and Belkar. Roy and Xykon primarily exist to provide the overlying story framework that the funny characters than relentlessly lampoon.

That it is a comedy doesn't neccesarily mean that it is the funny character who is the central character and not the straight man. The story revolves around Roy's mission, Roy's oath, Roy's ancestral sword, etc. as Haley pointed out here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0212.html). In any case, note that Roy has the largest number of character appearances (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26675&highlight=character+appearances), though granted, not by much.

[Crispy SpThief]

Typical nobles, caring more for their own hides and the and positions than for the city they live in. Most of them are already dismissing Hinjo for his youth and supposed inexperience.

I see why Shojo chose his deception (which as he said when we first learned of them, are because of the ninjas death attempts). I myself wouldnt trust them as far as I could throw them.

As for telling them of the Snarl: NO. WAY. These guys merely want control of Azure City. With that logic, if they knew of the power located in their ciity, and that there's a possibility that it could be controlled, it would make the sneakier of them just want control even more. best keep it secret, and prevent them from having any more temptation than they already have.

Interesting how easily Roy found those ninjas. Judging from past ninja experience, I think this can that either goblin ninjas totally outdo human ninjas in terms of worth (After all, a whole mass of them did sneak up on our heroes back in the dungeon), or Roy has either a lot of ranks in Spot, or Roy has enough Wisdom to make a Monk jealous. Either way, go Roy. He is once again, da man.

Oh, and on a side note, Lien's a really cute Paladin. I'd definitely wouldnt mind getting Diplomatic with her, thats for sure. :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Zentei]

Typical nobles, caring more for their own hides and the and positions than for the city they live in. Most of them are already dismissing Hinjo for his youth and supposed inexperience.

Typical human nature in general, I'd say. :smallwink:

Only with nobles, the stakes get that much higher, since the resources they command are greater.

[mdvk1012]

Incidently I've always taken the approach (in fantasy realms) that the brighter the colour the better the ninja. Anyone can sneak around in black or dark clothing unnoticed but it takes a real ninja to acomplish the same feat in neon pink.
This is the premise of the new game "Assassin's Creed" where the main character is in white and expected to try blend in to the crowd.

I loved the Yahtzee reference. But I doubt the Xykon is playing "fair" as he states to Redclock.

[Dausuul]

Say for example 4 nobles hire each one just one ninja to kill the king. There are four "just one ninja" here, but they make it to the castle at the same time. Does the inverse ninja law apply? Does those four "just one deadly ninja" turn into "four cannon fodder ninja"?

I suspect Inverse Ninja Law applies to any number of ninjas on the same mission at the same time. Who sent which ninja is immaterial. I'm not even sure physical proximity is required, as long as the camera cuts back and forth between them.

Also note that the INL doesn't state that the effectiveness of ninjas is constant regardless of numbers--group effectiveness actually goes down as the number of ninjas goes up. One ninja is a major threat and has a high likelihood of killing the target. Four ninjas are a challenge but will usually be defeated. A dozen ninjas will be mowed down in short order.

[chibibar]

hehe.... now Shojo looks even better and better. These nobles are crap. Typical of fantasy nobles, they will only use their forces for their own gain. Not willing to lay down their lives for the good of the city. Shojo knew this and try his best to use the nobles as best as he can to promote peace, which it seems it is a lot of work (and easier since Shojo is not a paladin hehehehe) but Hinjo IS a paladin and would be harder for him to "lie or deceive" the nobles like his uncle did.

Hinjo is going to have a tough time trying to defend the city if the nobles won't back him up. There is already lack of troops as it is :(

[Iranon]

It appears as if Hinjo is being too soft here; he should not have allowed the nobles to leave like that.

An immediate 'I can't allow you to do this. Stand with me, surrender your assets for the time of crisis or immediately or consider yourself under arrest for treason' would have been the correct action.

Commandeering ships of the non-nobles while the nobles use theirs to flee could result in chaos and the desertion of everyone with the means to do so. In fact, a mass evacuation is bound to be impractical and do more harm than good now.

Shame Miko wasn't there. Her approach might have helped matters here.

[Dell]

I just love the Ninjas.

Shojo is going to have some hard days there!

Can't wait for the next one :)

[Roderick_BR]

And here Hinjo gets a glimpse of an enemy far wicker and more dangerous than Xykon:

Politics.

[Lord Zentei]

I just love the Ninjas.

Shojo is going to have some hard days there!

Can't wait for the next one :)

I think you mean Hinjo. :smalltongue:

Shojo is currently residing in the upper planes, drinking single malt scotch and smoking cigars rolled from poorly worded legal documents. :smallwink:

[DrowWolfrider]

Sorry if someone has already brought this up but did anyone notice that Hinjo was strokeing his goatee in the second to last panel?

[IlanaAeryn]

All right, I'm a fan of this one. I'm rather dreading the return of Xykon; darker humor, even friendly like this, isn't so much my thing. But, I have to admit to a secret thrill of delight when the page loaded and I could see just the edge of a :xykon: speech bubble.

Thank you, please drive through.

[Lord Zentei]

Sorry if someone has already brought this up but did anyone notice that Hinjo was strokeing his goatee in the second to last panel?

ZOUNDS!

It seems that there is more than one paladin around who at risk of turning to the darkside. :smallcool:

Unless Hinjo is the exception to the strokes-his-goatee rule.

[malakim2099]

Mandalorians can show just about anyone a right good ass kicking. Except for jedi, in most cases. Which means that a Mandalorian jedi would be death on legs.

Chuck Norris would still pwn him, though. :smallwink:

Love the webcomic, though one thing occurs to me (and apologies if this was already postulated)...If we want to mock the Two Towers movie and how wildly inconsistent it was from the book, have a bunch of elves and such from Lirian's forest show up to help defend this gate. THEY might not have an Oath of Silence, after all... and might want to avenge their dead(?) mistress.

[Noneoyabizzness]

ahhh internal strife with barbarians at the gate.

gotta love it.

[MandoFTR]

Now all we need is to get the epic battle started.
Wait, isn't their a spell called Stone to Earth?
Hmmmm...
Might make a certain city wall a smidgen more vulnerable.

[MandoFTR]

Chuck Norris would still pwn him, though. :smallwink:

Love the webcomic, though one thing occurs to me (and apologies if this was already postulated)...If we want to mock the Two Towers movie and how wildly inconsistent it was from the book, have a bunch of elves and such from Lirian's forest show up to help defend this gate. THEY might not have an Oath of Silence, after all... and might want to avenge their dead(?) mistress.

Ah, but are their Jedi or Chuck Norris in OOTS?

We'd be unstoppable!


As for Lirian, I wasn't under the impression she was of much importance in a social heirarchy, and I doubt any of the Order of the Snarl were glorified as such...

[malakim2099]

Ah, but are their Jedi or Chuck Norris in OOTS?

We'd be unstoppable!

As many Jedi and Chuck Norrises (Norrisi?) as there are Mandalorians, I'd wager. :smallamused:


As for Lirian, I wasn't under the impression she was of much importance in a social heirarchy, and I doubt any of the Order of the Snarl were glorified as such...

Well, she IS a high/epic-level druid, so there's all sorts of forest friends that she could have as allies. Besides, it keeps in with the Helm's Deep parody if that direction is chosen... especially with the movie.

Oh, and in regards to modern politics... I really don't see it. Sorry. I'd go into why, but then I'd be talking modern politics, wouldn't I? :smalltongue:

[Hyrael]

Oh, you mean like shoot her in the middle of them from a catapult? :smalltongue:
Doesn't really sound a LG thing to do. I mean, hobgoblins are humans (well, humanoids) too!
*enter obligatory remark regarding "cruel and unusual punishment" here* :smallbiggrin:
...Something I like to call...the Monkcannon. using the power of the monkcannon, we should be able to deal massive damage to the hobgoblin army-or just paint it a very disgusting color.

[Doug Lampert]

Agree with Fwiffo (coolest Spathi ever, BTW). Waaaay too many comparisons to modern events. Gotta love the "nobles" choice of approach there: "We refuse to help you fight to save our people, and we'll hold it against you if you lose." Also the "We know what's best when it comes to your job, just let us handle it."

Awesome comic, though, even though it's disconcerting to see the politicians act exactly the same, no matter the world.Nobles (other than the actual ruler) have three purposes in a political system.

1) Rulers of outlying areas too far away for the ruler to directly control. Obviously not the case for nobles who spend their time in the capitol city (they're just as far from the outlying areas as the ruler of the city), so that probably isn't these people's job.

2) Top officials who need to be able to give orders to people in group (1) or (3) and need the title to get anyone to pay attention. None of these people seem to have obvious government jobs like Army Commander, and Hinjo didn't threaten to fire them, so that's probably not it either.

Thus the nobles' job is:
3) A check on the otherwise autocratic power of the ruler by having a smallish group of other people that have sufficient power collectively that they can tell the ruler "bite my ass".

And from the ruler's point of view people with the job of acting as a check on your power aren't all that nice, but from the people of the city's point of view there are lots of times when it is GOOD to have someone who can try to force the leader of the city to negotiate rather than fight or to face real consequences.

In this case the nobles are wrong, and by sending Ninja's almost instantly I'd say they've shown that they are evil (running away is neutral at worst, neutral's aren't required to sacrifice themselves for others). But the principle is that collectively saying "We know what's best when it comes to your job, just let us handle it" is their actual JOB if they strongly feel that the leader is screwing up, and the willingness and ability to say "We refuse to help you fight to save our people your unneccessary battle, and we'll hold it against you if you lose" is part of how they say "we think you're wrong." In different circumstances (i.e. a case where when the leader claims they have to fight and refuses to explain why it's actually because there isn't any good readon to fight) then what they are doing would be fine.

[dutch508]

That it is a comedy doesn't neccesarily mean that it is the funny character who is the central character and not the straight man. The story revolves around Roy's mission, Roy's oath, Roy's ancestral sword, etc. ...

:thog:

Oh poo poo. The story revolves around Thog, Thog's mission, (hitherto unknown) Thog's oath (also unknown), and Thog's ancestral wooden stick.


Or maybe about the secret Llamas.

http://images.quizilla.com/R/RavenWings/1053973964_Picsninja1.jpg

[Lord Zentei]

:thog:

Oh poo poo. The story revolves around Thog, Thog's mission, (hitherto unknown) Thog's oath (also unknown), and Thog's ancestral wooden stick.


Or maybe about the secret Llamas. <SNIPPA IMAGE>

ZOUNDS!

No one expects the Ninja Llamas!


I think you meant to say Thog's ancestral axe. He has yet to go and reclaim it after all. :smallwink:

[Falkus]

Azure City is lucky to have a bright, talented, idealistic young leader like him.

He's also a Paladin. Now, I love playing paladins in DnD, but they make lousy political leaders. They can't lie, and they have to act honorably. Both poor traits to have in a leader.

[rashambo]

If I were playing Hinjo, I'd make an example of one of the nobles for:

1) Sedition, refusing to help the city in a time of crisis.
2) High treason for hiring assassins.

By replacing the "noble" with someone a bit more loyal and banishing the rest of the house, the others would be a bit more cautious in their actions.

[Falkus]

By replacing the "noble" with someone a bit more loyal and banishing the rest of the house, the others would be a bit more cautious in their actions.

Or they'd just simply start a civil war. It's plainly obvious that Hinjo's position does not entitle him to absolute authority.

[Doug Lampert]

I suspect Inverse Ninja Law applies to any number of ninjas on the same mission at the same time. Who sent which ninja is immaterial. I'm not even sure physical proximity is required, as long as the camera cuts back and forth between them.
If the Ninga's are all sent by different people, and fight with/hide from/or otherwise seriously fail to cooperate with each other then they are individually dangerous, but the hero can survive by letting them almost all kill each other.

All of these Ninja's are fighting Roy at once in a situation where they can see each other, they're toast.

[fangthane]

Mando - Transmute Rock to Mud. The spell does exist, and is indeed (or can be) very efficacious in magically-assisted siegecraft. One of my BBEGs developed a magic item based on the spell which, when fired from a catapult... Well, you can guess what it does. :) Not a lot of actual damage per se, but it sure helps the grunts when a wall section melts.
Hmm, appears it won't affect worked stone; I may be misremembering and might have had to extrapolate a more powerful spell when he was developing the mudballs; in any case, the mechanism's there and is sound. :)

Blood (and others) - While Shojo always retained the potential out of telling the nobles (or anyone else, the OotS included) about the Snarl and the Gates, you're ignoring two important details.
1. Hinjo is a real Paladin, not a Noble.
2. Hinjo has sworn an oath never to reveal the secret to anyone outside the Guard; the only reason he can speak freely with the OotS is because they already know.

As to the title Noblesse Oblige...
I'd love to see the next two comic titles, in order, be Belkar Unchained (Belkar Unleashed would provide nice symmetry to Leashed, but it's already been used for 42) wherein Roy and Hinjo have his Mark removed and sic him on the nobles, followed by Noblesse Oblige wherein the nobles are obligated to participate through Belkar's gentle persuasion. Dunno if it'd happen, but that would be a perfect way to recycle a great title. :)


Hmm, having taken another look at #42, if the INL actually does apply to the OotS world, Belkar is an even more serious badass than I thought. :)

[Aquillion]

Typical nobles, caring more for their own hides and the and positions than for the city they live in. Most of them are already dismissing Hinjo for his youth and supposed inexperience.
To be fair...

From their perspective, Hinjo is sacrificing both them and the city for some unspecified Paladin oath. Even if he told them exactly why he's doing it, it would probably only make things worse--why should they believe him? It's religious Paladin mumbo-jumbo, focused on an oath with personal meaning to him and the paladins and none to anyone else, and he's essentially risking thousands of lives over it. Sure, we know that the world is really at stake because it's an RPG and that's how things go, but overall his story is pretty fantastical and hard to swallow.

...in fact, that raises an interesting point. Why did Soon put his gate in a populated area? In doing so, he was essentially setting things up to sacrifice thousands of innocent lives to protect it. The Paladins have their oath, natch, but that isn't true for the nobles or the civilians. Even saying that it's for the greater good, is using innocents as unknowing pawns in your plan really a Paladin thing to do?

[nybbler]

ZOUNDS!

It seems that there is more than one paladin around who at risk of turning to the darkside. :smallcool:

Unless Hinjo is the exception to the strokes-his-goatee rule.

Everyone who grows a goatee strokes his goatee. It's a law of nature.

[MReav]

...Something I like to call...the Monkcannon. using the power of the monkcannon, we should be able to deal massive damage to the hobgoblin army-or just paint it a very disgusting color.

Is it anything like the Griff cannon?

[the_tick_rules]

the old rats in a sinking ship mentality is taking over huh? well this is gonna be interesting.

[Zephra]

I have been liking roy more and more..

[fractal]

...in fact, that raises an interesting point. Why did Soon put his gate in a populated area? In doing so, he was essentially setting things up to sacrifice thousands of innocent lives to protect it. The Paladins have their oath, natch, but that isn't true for the nobles or the civilians. Even saying that it's for the greater good, is using innocents as unknowing pawns in your plan really a Paladin thing to do?
Soon didn't get to place the Gate. The original rift was over Azure City. Perhaps he could move the sapphire a bit from the original hole location, but presumably not a lot, or else they'd have tried to consolidate the Gates to be easier to defend.

[Devoured_Dude]

Finally! After five strips of exposition it looks like there's going to be some action! Flashy ninja action at that!

[Senko]

Just wanted to point out the ninja llama's wearing pink thus supporting my theory that the better ninja you are the brighter colours you wear. Thus Roy's actually pretty well off since 3 of his opponents are wearing dark blue, black and deep purple its only that light grey one he needs to watch out for.

[Tobrian]

Ninja spill! :smallbiggrin:


Agree with Fwiffo (coolest Spathi ever, BTW). Waaaay too many comparisons to modern events. Gotta love the "nobles" choice of approach there: "We refuse to help you fight to save our people, and we'll hold it against you if you lose." (snip)

:smallsigh: I knew people would try to spin the current comic as an analogy on current events, the moment I read the thing. *groan*

Scrubbed.

Plus, Hinjo actually has a working conscience.

The way the plot works simply follows logically from the set-up... the leaders of the various clans regard it their duty to protect their vassals, which in their mind ranks higher than following the orders of a newly-minted paladin king who is Not One Of Them (even if technically they owe him allegiance and military service) and whose insane uncle seems to have drawn the undead plague to Azure City in the first place. A city can be rebuild... or so they think.

Hinjo has admitted that Xykon is only interested in capturing the city, and will stop at nothing to get there. If the other clans suffer losses, who cares? Yes, it's extremely callous, not LG, and it's really really stupid tribal thinking, but hey guess what old-fashioned tribal thinking is on the rise again in today's world and has become really popular in politics.

Now, trying to assassinate the crowned king in a feudal society such as theirs, that's where they really crossed the line.
Not that I'm a monarchist; just playing devil's advocate here.

[Lord Zentei]

Everyone who grows a goatee strokes his goatee. It's a law of nature.

Yeah, but that's not the strokes the goatee rule. I'll let Haley explain it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0059.html). :smallwink:


Hmmm. On review, that should be "has a goatee" rule. Though as you say, anyone who has a goatee strokes it, so same difference.

[CGM3]

Unnecessary Ninja Exposition:

As anyone with half a brain must realize, real ninjas did not sneak about in black jammies with a cowl; for one thing, it was a dead giveaway if you were spotted! They blended in by posing as ordinary servants, artisans, laborers, or what not, which allowed them to get to their target.

The black jammies actually comes from a convention of the Japanese theater, in which stage hands who had to be on stage for "special effects" purposes wore such garb to inform the audience that they were not there as characters, and so should be ignored. Somewhere along the line, this "invisibility" was ascribed to ninjas.

Of course, in Azure City the custom may have evolved to "ignore the ninjas in hooded jammies, they're too sneaky for us to spot anyway", to the point that the people simply cannot see a ninja "in uniform" no matter how brightly colored he may be. Roy, of course, not being from Azure City, can see them fine.

The only problem will be if one of the nobles gets the bright idea of hiring a Goblin ninja...

[atteSmythe]

Interesting. I didn't read that as him stroking his goatee, just holding both hands out in front of himself. Stroking a goatee whilst gesticulating wildly with the other hand would be like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time. Doable, but requiring too much concentration to be bothered to do so.

[Josh Inno]

If the city is so royaly screwed without the troops of the nobles, why doesn't Hinjo take them into his confidence?

[Cyborg Pirate]

If the city is so royaly screwed without the troops of the nobles, why doesn't Hinjo take them into his confidence?

Well, based on how they're acting, I can forsee the nobles disbelieving Hinjo on how much danger the gates pose and them actually offering Xykon easy acces to the gate if they thought they could profit from it.

[Balance]

Hmmm. On review, that should be "has a goatee" rule. Though as you say, anyone who has a goatee strokes it, so same difference.
Hypothetical: What if you stroked someone else's goatee?
(On review, that sounds dirtier than I expected, somehow. :smallbiggrin: )

Would that require a corollary?

[Cyborg Pirate]

Hypothetical: What if you stroked someone else's goatee?
(On review, that sounds dirtier than I expected, somehow. :smallbiggrin: )

Would that require a corollary?

*Makes a note to hire a special aid to stroke my goatee for me during villainous expositions. Just to show how badass I am*

[Tilian]

Well, based on how they're acting, I can forsee the nobles disbelieving Hinjo on how much danger the gates pose and them actually offering Xykon easy acces to the gate if they thought they could profit from it.

And even if it didn't turn out that way, once the secret is out it will be nearly impossible to cover up again.

[Falkus]

If the city is so royaly screwed without the troops of the nobles, why doesn't Hinjo take them into his confidence?

Because of the stupid oath he swore. It's a legitimate way to be a Paladin, but any of the Paladin's I've played would put protecting the gate and the city above a stupid oath sworn several generations earlier.

[atteSmythe]

OotS has taught me that if I ever play a paladin, I should avoid oaths of any kind. Sheesh!

[fwiffo]

If the city is so royaly screwed without the troops of the nobles, why doesn't Hinjo take them into his confidence?

You take someone into confidence on what is a very major secret if you can trust them. I you are reasonably sure that people who you are dealing with are responsible, and won't abuse, misuse or leak the information, then sure - tell them. OOTS is that way, so Shojo trusted them with information. City nobles... not so much. They are opportunists, as Hinjo said in 9th panel of #414.

Shojo (and now Hinjo) knew they can make Summon Conscience check on Roy & Company. Unfortunately, that check has a fatal flaw - it only works when there is conscience to be summoned. And the way those nobles think (as exemplified by Kubota), it is fairly clear that they don't possess any conscience to be of any use.

[Erianaiel]

I was wonderng why Hinjo or Roy did not make the samurai the diplomat he so desired to be.

Because if Hinjo had willingly or knowingly told him to do that he would have ceased to be Hinjo the Paladin and become Hinjo the fighter without bonus feats.
Sending somebody to a meaningless death just because it is convenient to get rid of him that way is after all an evil act.



But they could have handled that more diplomatically. I thought they would at least be bound to some form of honor that could be appealed to?

There is a thing they could have said that might have convinced the Daimyo to not abandon the city and instead help defend it (possibly, not likely given how self-centered these nobles obviously are). I am not sure if the Giant will not want to use it later so I spoiler it just to be on the safe side

They could have told Xykon wanted not a thing as much as the location that was inconveniently occupied by the city. He would not only take the city but also raze it to the ground and perform an unholy ritual to gain even more evil power than he already has.
This would not be a lie, not even one by omission, but it could still be enough to convince the Daimyo without revealing the full truth of the Snarl and the Gates which is too dangerous to entrust to such self-serving nobles



Eri

[Emanick1]

Hehe! This comic is GREAT. Two punchlines and we finally get to see the idiotic nobles.
It's nice to see a group of "villains," aka the nobles, who aren't likable. And the ninjas are good...all climbing over each other to get at Hinjo. Heh, :smallamused:
Notice how they're all smaller than Roy? Who thinks they're halflings? :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Zentei]

Hypothetical: What if you stroked someone else's goatee?
(On review, that sounds dirtier than I expected, somehow. :smallbiggrin: )

Would that require a corollary?

The one who strokes someone else's goatee would presumably be the femme fatale that goatee-sporting types often associate with.

Such as :sabine:.

:smallwink:

[sleepy]

(real) ninjas WERE multicoloured. We're talking orange and pink ribbons here people.

Those colours don't show up at night. They make pretty good camo.

[Zienth]

I doubt very many of the nobles' samurai will turn against the nobles and stay to fight.
a) Most soldiers are loyal to whomever is paying them, and that would be the nobles. Nationalism is a modern concept.
b) If they've sworn an oath to anyone, it would be to their noble, not to Hinjo, so Honor would not be an issue.
c) They're more likely to stay alive if they go with the nobles. Not that a samurai could admit to that reasoning, but it's still human nature. And they can claim (b) as their reason without any dishonor.

Hinjo should have had the nobles arrested for treason before they got out of the room, once they get back to their retinues, their samurai will fight to defend them, and it gets messy at a time when Hinjo can't afford messy.


If any nobles do leave and the city survives, I'd make sure that when the nobles came back they'd find that their homes and businesses had all burned down during the fight. Even if no other buildings were damaged. "Darned fire arrows!" :smallamused: Their power probably comes from their property, if it is destroyed they'd be considerably weaker going forward.

But I'm not a LG Paladin, so I doubt Hinjo will do that. But I'm sure there are plenty of other non-LG people in the city's defenses who might resent the nobles abandoning them in the hour of need...


Zienth

[fwiffo]

Hinjo should have had the nobles arrested for treason before they got out of the room, once they get back to their retinues, their samurai will fight to defend them, and it gets messy at a time when Hinjo can't afford messy.

Would that be same Hinjo who said "Guys, I apologize for interrupting" when OOTS was talking during his coronation? He is too nice a guy to deal with the nobles as forcefully as it is called for.

Hey, at least they are not going behind his back and consorting with the enemy. Not yet, anyway.

[moleytov]

*I expect they'll move against me soon*
Battling Roy
"I concur."

*falls off chair laughing*

[Andorxor]

Multicolored Ninjas == Ninja Power Rangers

[Aramil]

Wouldn't put it past those backstabbing nobles to just go to the obvious victor Xykon in order to maintain their position after the battle. Maybe then the first noble zombies will be born. :smallsmile:

[Suri]

Heh Heh...
:hinjo:"I expect they'll move against me soon."
:roy:"I concur."

[Alysar]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but..

Xykon doesn't have a strategy for the battle.

Sure, his army outnumbers the city's soldiers by slightly over 3 to 1 or however much it is now that the nobles are taking their forces and skipping town, but if the city has a strategy and he doesn't, that might be easy to overcome. One of Xykon's main weaknesses is that he is way too overconfident. He's used to just waving his hand and having people drop dead in front of him.

[Stephen_E]

I doubt it. My reading of the nobles is that they would have stolen the sapphire and handed it over.

Getting those people to fight is like asking wet wood to burn. It's just not in them. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Actually I think it's quite possible they'd fight..., if Hinjo had suggested capitulating. Their aim is to get in power themselves. Whatever Hinjo does that doesn't increase their power is to be opposed.

Actually IIRC the Lord Shujo situationmirrors one of the Roman Emperors, who in a period when all the best candidates were bumping each other off acted stupid and got made Emperor and actually ruled quite well while acting stupid on the personal level. The remaining candidates kept going at each other safe in the knowledge that once they'd gotten rid of the real threats they could take care of the idiot Emperor.

While it might be tempting to compare it to modern history (and Rich may be thinking of current politics for all I know) given that Azure city is a feudal country, the translation doesn't work well logically. Feudal societies have political problems all of their own and react in ways perculiar to them.

Also I'd point out that if you look at things from the Nobles point of view they aren't been entirely unreasonable. -
Young (comparitively) Paladin with little political experiance is suddenly in charge with a large army of unknown history threatening. Wise noble suggests that they talk to find out why said army is threatening. Upstart adventurer manhadles noble and off-handedly dismisses any negoitation, while demonstrating familiarity/dislike with armies leader. New Lord dismisses wise nobles concerns and seems unduly influenced by unknown adventurer.

For all the nobles can tell, Azure city is been used in some private feud between adventurer and enemy leader, with Hinjo been taken in due to his inexperiance. Remember they haven't read the last 400 strips. Under those circumstances pulling out your forces to leave someone to clean up the mess afterwards isn't a ridiculous idea.

Stephen

[5tephen]

Heh.
I like how the Assassins all wear the colours of their liege lords/employers.

[Yahoo_Serious]

And this is where Miko potentially doomed the city: if anyone would have been able to convince (or trick) the nobles into defending the city effectively, it would have been Shojo (and/or ScruffySan)...

[Stephen_E]

I really think some ultimatums are called for on Hinjo's part, if the soldiers of those lords are important. "If you abandon Azure City in its hour of need, but we somehow triumph anyway, then you will have forfeited X, Y, and Z." The actual substance of X, Y, and Z depends upon what the laws of Azure City allow, but I bet the ruler has some leeway in that regard. At the very least, give favored status to those lords who actually do help.

Make it clear to the lords that their participation matters more to them than just the marginal improvement in Azure City's probability of victory.

That strategy could also force them to revolt on the spot. Not something you really want with a large army outside your door.

I always like Queen Elizabeths way of dealing with plotting nobles. She'd honour them with a Royal visit, including her full retinue. Of course the noble would have to feed and entertain her retinue. After a few months she'd leave, with the plotting noble now broke with heavy debts. Plotting rebellion costs money. At no time does she openly offend Noble or given any public greviance to take up.

Stephen

[Erlessa]

I always like Queen Elizabeths way of dealing with plotting nobles. She'd honour them with a Royal visit, including her full retinue. Of course the noble would have to feed and entertain her retinue. After a few months she'd leave, with the plotting noble now broke with heavy debts. Plotting rebellion costs money. At no time does she openly offend Noble or given any public greviance to take up.

She really did that? Wow, a good plan, actually. Might come in handy when RPing...:smallamused:

[Stephen_E]

Depending on the type of tenure, if your liege lord requires you to provide feudal levies (or payment in default), you will do so or forfeit your fief. If you forcefully resist this process, that's probably treason.

Alternatively, I cannot imagine a scenario where the state cannot appropriate property for use in national defence - on payment of just compensation, of course.



Whether your liege lord's law enforcement personnel are sufficiently powerful to dispossess you if you do refuse is another matter, and except in times of dire national emergency (such as now), it's probably not in his interest to press the point.


You apparently can't imagine a country where the "state" has very little central power. Indeed at times nobles could be considered the "State" so obviosly they aren't going to seize property from themselves. Before Nationalism became a common concept the power of the "state" was often based on how much you could convince the nobles to back you.

Stephen

[Stephen_E]

I loved the Yahtzee reference. But I doubt the Xykon is playing "fair" as he states to Redclock.

Dice were often made of Bone. Xykon is a Necromancer amongst other things. What's the odds.........:smallwink:

Stephen

[fractal]

That strategy could also force them to revolt on the spot. Not something you really want with a large army outside your door.
Only if the nobles are more inclined to rebel than they are to defend the city (their default position seems to be to do neither). If the nobles are more interested in fighting Hinjo than in fighting Xykon (crazy, but possible), then I suppose stick-based negotiation would not work. Even then, however, carrot-based diplomacy might be worth a try.

It's important to remember, these nobles don't like each other any better than they like Hinjo. It ought to be possible to use that to manipulate them.

[Stephen_E]

It's important to remember, these nobles don't like each other any better than they like Hinjo. It ought to be possible to use that to manipulate them.

Without lying?

I'm not sure Hinjo is that good a politician.

Stephen

PS. Caught up at last. :-)

[Tharj TreeSmiter]

Only if the nobles are more inclined to rebel than they are to defend the city (their default position seems to be to do neither). If the nobles are more interested in fighting Hinjo than in fighting Xykon (crazy, but possible), then I suppose stick-based negotiation would not work. Even then, however, carrot-based diplomacy might be worth a try.

It's important to remember, these nobles don't like each other any better than they like Hinjo. It ought to be possible to use that to manipulate them.

There are endless examples of this in history. When the Roman empire was being nibbled away by Goths, Huns, etc... many generals used thier armies not to fight the "barbarians" but to conquer Rome iself and claim the title of Ceasar.

When The Mongols invaded Europe they never lost a major battle, much of it was due to more efficient fighting tactics, communication, and cohesion. But a large part was because they rarely had to fight more than one small european nation at a time. Europe never really banded together to try and stop them they were to busy fighting each other. Much the same with the Ottoman turks later.

The hundred years war was fought while the popes called for crusades to the middle east.

These are just examples of when peoples who seem to have a common enemy continue fighting amonst themselves, I am making no comparisons or connections between real people/cultures to xykon or anyother OOTS characters, and my examples are european because that's my most extensive history knowledge.

[Wolfram]

Discussing the unstealthiness of the color purple:


Haha yea was just thinkign the same thing what exacaly are they going to blend in with? a garden bed of petunias. :P

Well, if there's a purple haze all in your brain...

[nizwiz]

...
Oh, and on a side note, Lien's a really cute Paladin. I'd definitely wouldnt mind getting Diplomatic with her, thats for sure. :smallbiggrin:

- Or "smiting evil", he he.


Everyone who grows a goatee strokes his goatee.

- Except maybe, uhm, a goat?


And, finally, there are all my favourites again: Xykon, Redcloak, MitD, demon roaches yay!
- Wait! Where are the demon roaches? Aww, man, I can't believe it!
Ok, now, no roaches - no praising words from me for this absolute superb strip. There you are, Giant!

BTW: Geez, what a sore loser Redcloak is!

EDIT:
And, as for the INL: Not only are the ninjas fighting in a bunch, they're like stacked on each other! I guess that would be extra encumbering, no?

[dutch508]

Ninja spill! :smallbiggrin:



:smallsigh: I knew people would try to ...(small snip)... just playing devil's advocate here.

:thog: Thog not get.

Scrubbed.

[KillerCardinal]

I doubt that the nobles are prepared for a level 13-15 Fighter...

Especially when he(:roy:) has a +5 greatsword!

[KillerCardinal]

That it is a comedy doesn't neccesarily mean that it is the funny character who is the central character and not the straight man. The story revolves around Roy's mission, Roy's oath, Roy's ancestral sword, etc. as Haley pointed out here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0212.html). In any case, note that Roy has the largest number of character appearances (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26675&highlight=character+appearances), though granted, not by much.

Also, in No Cure for the Paladin Blues, Rich states in his commentary that during the first book at least, it was all about :roy:s quest, which kind of implies to me that :roy: might be considered the main character. If I'm not recalling that correctly, please correct me though!

[Helgraf]

Typical nobles, caring more for their own hides and the and positions than for the city they live in. Most of them are already dismissing Hinjo for his youth and supposed inexperience.

I see why Shojo chose his deception (which as he said when we first learned of them, are because of the ninjas death attempts). I myself wouldnt trust them as far as I could throw them.

As for telling them of the Snarl: NO. WAY. These guys merely want control of Azure City. With that logic, if they knew of the power located in their ciity, and that there's a possibility that it could be controlled, it would make the sneakier of them just want control even more. best keep it secret, and prevent them from having any more temptation than they already have.

Interesting how easily Roy found those ninjas. Judging from past ninja experience, I think this can that either goblin ninjas totally outdo human ninjas in terms of worth (After all, a whole mass of them did sneak up on our heroes back in the dungeon), or Roy has either a lot of ranks in Spot, or Roy has enough Wisdom to make a Monk jealous. Either way, go Roy. He is once again, da man.

Oh, and on a side note, Lien's a really cute Paladin. I'd definitely wouldnt mind getting Diplomatic with her, thats for sure. :smallbiggrin:

Ninjas in the last panel are already attacking. That -20 to Hide after an attack (and flat out impossible without Hide in Plain Sight) makes even Roy's Spot check irrelevant. He'll see them.

[Xeticus]

:thog: Thog not get.

Scrubbed.

Scrubbing bubbles.

[MandoFTR]

- Or "smiting evil", he he.



- Except maybe, uhm, a goat?


And, finally, there are all my favourites again: Xykon, Redcloak, MitD, demon roaches yay!
- Wait! Where are the demon roaches? Aww, man, I can't believe it!
Ok, now, no roaches - no praising words from me for this absolute superb strip. There you are, Giant!

BTW: Geez, what a sore loser Redcloak is!

EDIT:
And, as for the INL: Not only are the ninjas fighting in a bunch, they're like stacked on each other! I guess that would be extra encumbering, no?

Or "Lay on Hands".

[TinSoldier]

Soon didn't get to place the Gate. The original rift was over Azure City. Perhaps he could move the sapphire a bit from the original hole location, but presumably not a lot, or else they'd have tried to consolidate the Gates to be easier to defend.Even if the city was already there, I think it makes a lot of sense to hide the gate in the middle of the city. It is much more defendable than say, Dorukan's tower.


OotS has taught me that if I ever play a paladin, I should avoid oaths of any kind. Sheesh!Heh. Good luck with that! Oaths are one of those things that paladins are all about.

I think one thing that a lot of people are missing is that even in a feudal society the ruler relies on the support of his nobles. It's a staple of not only fantasy fiction but of real history that a ruler cannot rule without their support. The ruler's family may have a lot of resources to call upon, but the nobles together have even more.

c.f. George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series as well as history's The Wars of the Roses. It's much more complicated than commander and commanded. Weak rulers will be dominated by other factions. Strong rulers will convince enough factions to be on his side.

The nobles may well be selfish and power hungry, but a part of them really does have the best interests of the city at heart. After all if the city falls then they lose all of their power as well. Not to mention the possible damage to their own assets. It's not their fault that they don't know about gates and rifts and snarls and whatnot.

[TheOtherMC]

Now all we need is to get the epic battle started.
Wait, isn't their a spell called Stone to Earth?
Hmmmm...
Might make a certain city wall a smidgen more vulnerable.

And I beleive there's also the reversed version of the "Flesh to stone" spell, "Stone to Flesh"......yeah have fun with that one guys...:smallbiggrin:

[Mr Teufel]

Because of the stupid oath he swore. It's a legitimate way to be a Paladin, but any of the Paladin's I've played would put protecting the gate and the city above a stupid oath sworn several generations earlier.
Oath breaking = lying = losing palandinhood. p44, Code of Conduct, 2nd sentence.

OotS has taught me that if I ever play a paladin, I should avoid oaths of any kind. Sheesh!
Easier said than done.

Hehe! This comic is GREAT. Two punchlines and we finally get to see the idiotic nobles.
It's nice to see a group of "villains," aka the nobles, who aren't likable. And the ninjas are good...all climbing over each other to get at Hinjo. Heh, :smallamused:
Notice how they're all smaller than Roy? Who thinks they're halflings? :smallbiggrin:
Nah, Roy's quite tall. Sneaky characters in general aren't that tall.

Multicolored Ninjas == Ninja Power Rangers
Well, a couple of levels of Ranger certainly wouldn't hurt a 'ninja' style build.:smallbiggrin:

[Xylin Nialo]

Originally posted by FlawedParadigm
And when do we find out about Mr. Scruffy? Heh.

i agree, what happend to Mr. Scruffy?
he was the whole reason the comic keeps on going.

[Alsadius]

Scrubbing bubbles.

[Gorbash Kazdar]

Comrade Gorby: I have just finished making several edits and issuing a number of Warnings due to a series of posts in this thread dealing with real world politics.

I would like to remind everyone that any comments on real world politics, no matter which side you're coming in on and regardless of whether or not it's meant in jest are strictly off limits on this forum as a whole.

Any real world political comments in this thread from here on out will earn an Infraction. Please avoid the topic.

[K'tai]

I am loving the direction this is going. Ahhhh...ninjas.....how wonderful.....

[Ariko]

With names like Kabuto and Miko..I can't help but wonder if there's a Taicho and Gunso somewhere in this

..never mind, its Kubota not Kabuto, dont think Kubota means anything..or rather it does, missed this bit earlier in the thread:
Pop(?) culture reference ahoy: Kubota is a manufacturer of excavators and other utility vehicles. Hence "Kubota" is a fitting name for a Daimyo who's trying to undermine his Shogun. :smalleek:

Incidentily kabuto is the name of the helmet samurai wore, and taicho and gunso are military titles

[genXesis]

Another great strip. I can't wait for the next!

[Logos7]

Can someone Explain the Title to me

Noble is Goodble? Is it a joke/refernence ?

Logos

[MandoFTR]

And I beleive there's also the reversed version of the "Flesh to stone" spell, "Stone to Flesh"......yeah have fun with that one guys...:smallbiggrin:


Hmm. Make the wall flesh then...


...Turn it undead and have it fight for you? o_0

[Lord Zentei]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but..

Xykon doesn't have a strategy for the battle.

Sure, his army outnumbers the city's soldiers by slightly over 3 to 1 or however much it is now that the nobles are taking their forces and skipping town, but if the city has a strategy and he doesn't, that might be easy to overcome. One of Xykon's main weaknesses is that he is way too overconfident. He's used to just waving his hand and having people drop dead in front of him.

Yeah. Like I said: he needs a Lord Hamster.

Unless he's got some super secret ploy to outmanouver the battle and get ahold of that sapphire, merely using the 30000 hobgoblins as a distraction.

I seem to recall Raistlin doing something similar at one point during the Twins saga, effectively sacrificing his army in the process.

<CONCATINATE DOUBLE POST>


If evacuating said dependants potentially means tipping that 50/50 balance for the thousands of innocents left behind, it's still effectively evil.

It certainly can be seen that way. Though I also get the impression that the nobles doubt Hinjo's competence, so they deem the 50-50 thing to be overly optimistic. Moreover, they could be intending to use this to compel him to seek a diplomatic solution, not knowing that such a solution is impossible by the very nature of what Xykon is after.

Though I'm not defending their actions, mind, just analyzing and seeing that it does make sense from the perspective of their limited information.


Depending on the type of tenure, if your liege lord requires you to provide feudal levies (or payment in default), you will do so or forfeit your fief. If you forcefully resist this process, that's probably treason.

Alternatively, I cannot imagine a scenario where the state cannot appropriate property for use in national defence - on payment of just compensation, of course.

It really depends on what kind of feudal law they have going, so I guess we'll need more information.

Moreover, there were limits to what a lord could demand of his vassals: if they had already paid their dues for the year, it could be really hard to get them to pay more. Also, a suitably powerful vassal could get away with a lot of sauce: see the dukes of Burgundy during the 100 year's war.

[battleburn]

Well at least Xycon's trick will fail now that Miko is in prison. Scrying on her and teleporting there will land Xycon in an antimagic cell.
That should work to the advantage of Azure city.

Edit: Also, I'm not worried about te ninjas. a pack of ninjas go down easily, but if there is just one. That's when you have to worry. In every Japanese movie I have seen so far anyway ;-)

[Vargtass]

And, as for the INL: Not only are the ninjas fighting in a bunch, they're like stacked on each other! I guess that would be extra encumbering, no?

Perhaps ninjas don't stack... :smallbiggrin:


Hmm. Make the wall flesh then...


...Turn it undead and have it fight for you? o_0

Unfortunately, unless the stone used to be a living creature (e.g. petrification) the spell will only create a flesh-like substance that has no life, has had no life, and thus cannot be turned undead. Nifty idea though. I wouldn't put it past Xykon to research the spell envisioned...

[hewhosaysfish]

Perhaps ninjas don't stack... :smallbiggrin:



Unfortunately, unless the stone used to be a living creature (e.g. petrification) the spell will only create a flesh-like substance that has no life, has had no life, and thus cannot be turned undead. Nifty idea though. I wouldn't put it past Xykon to research the spell envisioned...

If the wall doesn't want to get up and fight, I guess the ghouls will just eat it... Mmmm.... wallburger. Just watch out for dispel magic.

[Falkus]

Oath breaking = lying = losing palandinhood. p44, Code of Conduct, 2nd sentence.

Allowing innocents to be put at risk because of an oath that you didn't even personally make is a worse violation of the code of conduct.

[Vargtass]

Allowing innocents to be put at risk because of an oath that you didn't even personally make is a worse violation of the code of conduct.

But all Paladins of the Sapphire Guard has taken the same oath personally (as had Shojo), so this is not really the case. As I have understood it, this oath is a requirements for joining the Sapphire Guard in the first place. If you don't take it in person, you don't join.

[unstattedCommoner]

You apparently can't imagine a country where the "state" has very little central power. Indeed at times nobles could be considered the "State" so obviosly they aren't going to seize property from themselves. Before Nationalism became a common concept the power of the "state" was often based on how much you could convince the nobles to back you.

Actually, I can imagine such a country. I call it England during the Wars of the Roses. But I would not describe the King of England during that time as a "state" in the sense I was using that term - that was the reason for my distinction between "state" and "liege lord", which I would use to describe him.

The word "state" as I used it denotes the tripartite union of executive, legislative and judicial authorities exercising legal and effective control over a given territory and subject to legal constraints on what each of them can do, even if there are no de facto constraints on the exercise of their power.

My point was that it is inconceivable that a state such as I have described would not have legal power to seize private property in the public interest, with or without payment of reasonable compensation.

[Soveliss]

I expect they will move against me shortly...


I concur

[Laman_Stahros]

But all Paladins of the Sapphire Guard has taken the same oath personally (as had Shojo), so this is not really the case. As I have understood it, this oath is a requirements for joining the Sapphire Guard in the first place. If you don't take it in person, you don't join.
Shojo was not bound by that oath as he was not a paladin. He was the head of the guild, but it does not automatically follow that he was bound by their oath.

[Downtown]

I would have had those nobles executed for treason right then and their or at least thrown in jail. To see them leaving like cowards instead of living upto their oath to send aid to the king when in time of war, so that they can increase their power by watching the king army get beat to death while they spend the time on their personal yatch. I say send them on their diplomatic mission but let them do it personally. Sorry, that attitude just makes bothers me even in a comic.

[Vargtass]

Shojo was not bound by that oath as he was not a paladin. He was the head of the guild, but it does not automatically follow that he was bound by their oath.

Oh, but he had taken the oath, and he was bound by it, in the same way as anyone taking an oath is bound by it (cf. I swear to speak the truth...). Then, he broke the oath, without repercussions (other than unlawful execution), because he was not a paladin. But an oath is an oath, regardless of who you are. But just as sure as I can choose to lie in court (and be punished for it), so could Shojo or Hinjo for that matter choose to break their oaths. Only the consequences differ.

[Greebo]

Oh, but he had taken the oath, and he was bound by it, in the same way as anyone taking an oath is bound by it (cf. I swear to speak the truth...). Then, he broke the oath, without repercussions (other than unlawful execution), because he was not a paladin. But an oath is an oath, regardless of who you are. But just as sure as I can choose to lie in court (and be punished for it), so could Shojo or Hinjo for that matter choose to break their oaths. Only the consequences differ.
Please cite where Shojo took the oath?

[atteSmythe]

Please cite where Shojo took the oath?
OotS 290 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0290.html)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1204323/Shojo.jpg: "I, too, swore the oath when I assumed command of the Sapphire Guard, but I feel it is foolish to risk universal destruction for a promise to people I've never met."