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Jarl
2007-02-15, 03:58 AM
In the game I'm running on irc.rizon.net (#dungeon and #dungeonOOC, come check us out), one of my players is a viking who was recently blinded by an overzealous guest player who I asked to play the villain for a session. After the adventure, a new player to the group (Tattooed Monk with a whole super-spiritual philosophy and everything) began "training" him, in the middle of the town, in the art of blind-fighting. From the looks of it, it seems the Viking could very easily end up the "apprentice" of the Monk, Wax-On and all.
Now, as the Viking is CN and the Monk is LN, and there's been some preliminary discussion of future multiclassing. I was wondering if there's:
A) A Feat that lets Monk and Barbarian levels stack for Rage and Ki Strike ("Ascetic Anger" or something)
B) A Base Class that functions similar to the Sohei, except without the casting
C) A Prestice Class that does either of the above two things.

For the record, he already wears next to no armor and has a surprisingly decent Wis for a Barbarian. So. Thoughts?

-Also for the record: this game is quite lax on alignment restrictions. Our CG Ninja has been wavering on whether or not to go into Ninja Spy (complete with RPing to find a non-evil Ninja Master to teach him how). I could just let the Viking start taking Monk levels by going TN, but I was wondering if there was already something out there that would fit.

Zincorium
2007-02-15, 04:46 AM
There's a dragon magazine out there somewhere with a chaos monk variant, but the fluff on it is rather, well, odd.

Personally, since you're DMing, I'd just make a combo feat, basing the alignment mechanice off of Devoted Performer, which allows a character to level up as a bard despite having a lawful good alignment. Decide which things are reasonable to have stack (I'd go for AC bonuses and DR/- just for balance, but if you want it to be raging and Ki strike, that's well within your purview).

oriong
2007-02-15, 04:48 AM
maybe have levels stack to determine the duration of rage.

Brigham
2007-02-15, 04:51 AM
I would have it depend on the RPing between the monk and the barbarian. The act of training (in anything) can instill discipline, so it's not like he has to magically become LN overnight. I don't know how fast your campaign is moving, but you might be able to pull out the monk and barb for a few side sessions to RP how the training goes and through that you could track the alignment change.

Dhavaer
2007-02-15, 05:02 AM
maybe have levels stack to determine the duration of rage.

Barbarian rage is based of Con, not level.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-02-15, 05:28 AM
Duration is based on Con.
Number of rages per day is based on level.

Dan_Hemmens
2007-02-15, 06:36 AM
Since you're talking about multiclassing Barbarian/Monk, I assume you're happy playing fast and loose with Alignment restrictions, because otherwise you'd lose the Rage anyway if you became Lawful.

Oh, also, you might want to think about how you want the Fast Movement to add up between classes.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-02-15, 06:51 AM
Oh, also, you might want to think about how you want the Fast Movement to add up between classes.

There is not much to think about really.
The Barbarian's Fast Movement provides and unnamed bonus and the Monk's Fast Movement provide an enhancement bonus, so there is not any question about whether they stack.

Darrin
2007-02-15, 08:32 AM
A) A Feat that lets Monk and Barbarian levels stack for Rage and Ki Strike ("Ascetic Anger" or something)


No, but Ascetic Anger sounds like it would be pretty amusing, if nothing else.



B) A Base Class that functions similar to the Sohei, except without the casting


Religious warrior... well, that role is generally filled with Paladin or one of the dozen-or-so Paladin variants (Anarch would fit the Viking's current alignment best). However, Paladins have spellcasting, so you'd have to re-engineer it without that (UA I think explains how to do a non-caster Paladin).

Swordsage or Crusader from Tome of Battle is probably closer to what you're looking for... Warblade might work, too, since it's sort of a "smart barbarian" kind of thing. The ToB maneuver system might be a bit more crunch than you're looking for, since maneuvers = spells essentially, but they're a lot of fun when you get the hang of them.



C) A Prestice Class that does either of the above two things.


Shou Disciple is what you're looking form (From _Unapproachable East_, it's 3.0 and YES IT IS 3.0 read the book). No alignment restriction, and a Melee Flurry ability. You'll have to tweak it a bit (change the Knowledge: Local (Shou region) to Knowledge: Local (Eastern Philosophy/Monk Training/whatever) and fix some of the unarmed attack wonkiness (the class assumes monks have a separate BAB for unarmed attacks as per 3.0).

Otherwise, you're stuck with maybe going into Monk or a Monk PrC, losing the ability to rage, and then maybe rebuilding your rage abilities with another PrC that grants raging (Battle Howler of the Grummsh is the only one that springs to mind, but there are probably others).

Jayabalard
2007-02-15, 09:56 AM
A) A Feat that lets Monk and Barbarian levels stack for Rage and Ki Strike ("Ascetic Anger" or something)Perhaps you could create it and call it "Focused Rage" so that he can become lawful and not lose rage and so that monk and barbarian levels would stack.

Person_Man
2007-02-15, 10:16 AM
There is no feat that I am aware of that allows Monk and Barbarian levels to stack for any class ability. I would be fine with having one that allowed Rage and Unarmed Damage to stack. But you'll have to homebrew something with your DM.

There are several class options for you. Zincorium mentioned the Chaos Monk from Dragon Magazine.

There is also the Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedParagon.html#half-orc-paragon), which has no alignment restrictions. But that obviously requires that you be a Half-Orc.

And then there's the Druidic Avenger (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#druidic-avenger), who only has the Druid alignment restrictions.

You could also go into Wildrunner from Races of the Wild. It's a prestige class that offers Fast Movement and a "Primal Scream" that's actually better then Rage (and stacks with it, if you're so inclined). It requires that you be an Elf of Half Elf. But even if you're not, there's a short 3 level prestige class that gives you all the Elf abilities and lets you count as an Elf for items and classes.

But I think your best bet is to try and track down the Chaos Monk, or just to make a house rule with your DM. Monk and Barbarian are both weak classes, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to combine them if you have good fluff to back it up.

nivek1234
2007-02-15, 12:17 PM
B) A Base Class that functions similar to the Sohei, except without the casting

I guess it may be a little too late, but my two DM friends came up with a base class (unoriginally called a 'brawler') that was a combination of a monk and barbarian. I don't remember all of the abilities, but it was no armor/weapon proficiencies/shields, full BAB (with modified unarmed attack rules), +WIS to AC, fury of blows, monk unarmed strike damage, but lost DR and most of the upper lever monk abilities. It hasn't been played too much (only one session @ level 4), but I could find the stats later if desired.

Person_Man
2007-02-15, 02:08 PM
I guess it may be a little too late, but my two DM friends came up with a base class (unoriginally called a 'brawler') that was a combination of a monk and barbarian. I don't remember all of the abilities, but it was no armor/weapon proficiencies/shields, full BAB (with modified unarmed attack rules), +WIS to AC, fury of blows, monk unarmed strike damage, but lost DR and most of the upper lever monk abilities. It hasn't been played too much (only one session @ level 4), but I could find the stats later if desired.

If that's what you're looking for, you can always do Drunken Master from Complete Warrior.

Halcyon_Dax
2007-02-15, 02:13 PM
I like the monk-barbarian combo, it looks cool in my head.

Also

I cant get the phrase "Furious Flurry" out of my head. Good feat name.

AtomicKitKat
2007-02-15, 09:10 PM
You could also go into Wildrunner from Races of the Wild. It's a prestige class that offers Fast Movement and a "Primal Scream" that's actually better then Rage (and stacks with it, if you're so inclined). It requires that you be an Elf of Half Elf. But even if you're not, there's a short 3 level prestige class that gives you all the Elf abilities and lets you count as an Elf for items and classes.

I thought so too, but Ruathar =/= Stoneblessed.:smallfrown:

Person_Man
2007-02-15, 10:03 PM
I thought so too, but Ruathar =/= Stoneblessed.:smallfrown:

Really? [Flips through mostly useless suppliment]. Hey, you're right. Well, that's retarded. Well at least its a full caster progression class.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-15, 10:14 PM
I have one word for you, my friend... Swordsage.

Gets unarmed AC like a monk, evasion, and all the Monk goodies... only better, because he doesn't need to go unarmed and can use all his abilities with his greataxe.

Person_Man
2007-02-16, 09:58 AM
I have one word for you, my friend... Swordsage.

Gets unarmed AC like a monk, evasion, and all the Monk goodies... only better, because he doesn't need to go unarmed and can use all his abilities with his greataxe.

I second that. With the existance of the Swordsage, the Monk is pretty useless.

mystikphish
2007-02-16, 03:22 PM
Wow. Several suggestions for the Dragon Mag class Chaos Monk but none for Raging Monk?

Raging Monk swaps 'Flurry of Blows' for 'Rage, stacks with barbarian rage'.

See the index files at Crystal Keep (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php) to keep up with all those Dragon Mag classes...