How Do I Survive On 4 Hours of Sleep or Less?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm about to take another job that will require me to get up at 4 in the morning so I can get to the airport it's located at and through security before my shift starts at 5:30 AM. This is being coupled with my current job that's about to start summer hours that will require me to work in the evening until approximately 11 or 11:30 PM, coupled with a 30-40 minute drive home, meaning the earliest I'll get to bed is likely midnight.

As you might guess, this is going to cut my available time to sleep to the absolute limit. I can get caffeine at both locations, but I find myself extremely worried. I've been "training" myself for it by getting up at 4 AM, but I'm finding that throughout the day I just can't focus well and I'm worried as it becomes regular I'm going to suffer. Getting different hours isn't really an option at either job, so I'm at a loss as to how to deal with this situation. HELP! :smallsigh:

[Eldariel]

Well, normally a body isn't really tuned for that and you can't just brute force it. You can ask any couple with new children or anyone who's been involved in the frontline of an extended military conflict: it's hell if you can't sleep enough and can't recover, it will decrease your functionality and you'll probably begin developing hallucinations eventually. If possible, ~20 min naps over the day are really good. If you can fit them anywhere (lunch hour, between works or whatever), that alone could solve your problem. I've read of a guy who sleeps 3 hours each night and has 3x20 min nap spread over the day and does fine. Polyphasic sleep schedule is apparently more natural for a human than the normal monophasic one and lets you get away with far less sleep.

Consuming generous amounts of water & some physical exercise help a ton. Caffeine or other drugs work as emergency solutions with the obvious long-term health problems (again, ask anyone involved in a long war): I would avoid excessive consumption if you intend on maintaining such a schedule for a long while; it's not sustainable. I'd use them when need be to be extremely aware for one day.

[The_Ditto]

hah, I just read this in the paper today :)

(not that I recommend it .. but hey .. :) )

http://metronews.ca/voices/she-says/1038175/every-hour-counts-is-sleephacking-the-key-to-success/

[Karoht]

I did this for a few years. Mon-Fri I got 4 hours of sleep, possibly 6, occasionally only 2. Sat-Sun I would catch up on sleep, usually getting 10-12 hours per night on the weekends. I was a severe insomniac until I got a better medication. But, I was functional, I wasn't suffering any ill effects (that I was aware of), my behavior stayed normal, etc.

Note, I absolutely do not recommend this. It functioned for me, probably because I was a severe insomniac, and I had leisure activities as well as gym time squeezed in rather than just non-stop work work work.

Can you give us more details about your work and life in general? Is there some wiggle room anywhere at all? How badly do you need both jobs, etc.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

My limiting factor with how much sleep deprivation I can endure is when my eyelids start getting heavy while driving my car. I fear I might fall asleep at the wheel while driving and kill somebody. So if you know you are going to have to do this I would definitely try to find a way to do it in which you don't have to drive tired. Public transportation, carpooling, etc. You could even nap during your carpool.

I haven't personally kept a schedule this grueling, but friends of mine who have done things like this did creative things such as sleeping in a room somewhere at work or nearby (a friend's house, in a car in the parking lot) and then finding some other place to eat their ramen noodles and take a shower (ask the janitor, a lot of places have a shower hidden in the basement somewhere that most people don't know about)... in other words, not going home each day.

[Seffbasilisk]

You're going to lose efficiency.

Coffee and the like will cut down on your brain recognizing that you're sleep deprived, but it still takes a toll. Two hours is one cycle, and you need two cycles minimum to be functional. Six to effectively learn, and eight to be creative.

When you start nodding off, you need to grab a catnap or you'll be out solid. If you don't have a weekend to recoup and burn off the sleep debt you're going to tank your health.


Controlling the lighting and your eating patterns will help you function, but getting less than six hours of sleep a night on a regular basis is dangerous, especially when you're going to be driving. Sleep dep will shank your twitch reflexes, and has been tested as worse than driving drunk.

Hot water can help wake you up, but if you feel yourself nodding off while driving, roll the windows down, turn the radio up, and if you've got'm, smoke'm.

Aside from that, try not to smoke or drink. Anything else taking a toll on your health will wreck your precarious rhythm.

Good luck.

[SiuiS]

"Temporarily".


You can work it out through naps, but it is going to wear on you. My filly did that for a few years, getting 3/night but crashing fairly often for a quick nap whenever she could. Have an old friend out of the army who says he did the same while active. Seems like the only solution, until you can solidify a better schedule.


Keep in mind that when you sleep is also important. Your body self-regulates based on time of day based on cues like sunlight exposure and temperature and such. Four hours of sleep at night while it's getting dark and cool is better than a full eight hours in the middle of the day.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

When you start nodding off, you need to grab a catnap or you'll be out solid. If you don't have a weekend to recoup and burn off the sleep debt you're going to tank your health.
The problem is that I'm kind of in an environment where naps aren't a good thing.

"Don't nap during your break, it looks unprofessional to the customers in the restaurant."

"Don't nap on the bus, you'll miss your stop and be late for work."

"Don't nap at home, you've got cleaning to do."

[Eldariel]

If you're working 2 jobs you've got a darn good reason to put cleaning for later. I don't clean practically at all during extremely intensive periods and I make do just fine. Busses, at least I was able to nap and accurately wake up in busses back when I was in high school. Nowadays I can do more or less the same on trains. I don't know about you but at least I seem to have a sort of a 6th sense for when my stop is close. I overslept like three times over 3 years, something nobody really held against me (besides, you can always play the "traffic"-card to explain that at work).

Anyways, other than naps:
- Keep yourself well fed. You consume much more nutrition when you sleep little. Nutritious snacks are really key. I've found nuts to be a good alternative.
- Water. Again, a lot of water to keep your body running. This really belongs to nutrition but it's worth bringing out separately, it's so damn important to keep yourself hydrated.
- Maximize the quality of sleep. That means removing external distractions, not using anything electric or in general alerting for about an hour before going to bed, etc.
- Routines, morning shower, exercise (where you can fit it). These really help you shake off the tiredness and operate normally in spite of a lack of sleep.


And yeah, use caffeine as required but be warned, extended heavy use is really, really not healthy. Not only will you need more to keep going but it can also develop into an addiction and make you hyperactive & so on.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, it's less a matter of me wanting to clean and more my mother saying "Show some gratitude for the fact that you're getting free room and board from us while we're also doing the lion's share of paying off your college debt."

[Karoht]

The problem is that I'm kind of in an environment where naps aren't a good thing.
"Don't nap during your break, it looks unprofessional to the customers in the restaurant."
"Don't nap on the bus, you'll miss your stop and be late for work."
"Don't nap at home, you've got cleaning to do."
Well, it's less a matter of me wanting to clean and more my mother saying "Show some gratitude for the fact that you're getting free room and board from us while we're also doing the lion's share of paying off your college debt."
Remember that part where I asked about your obligations?
I fully understand if you would rather not share but... this seems remarkably important.
May I ask, why you need 2 jobs when it sounds like your bills and financial obligations aren't all that extreme? Emphasis on sounds like because we don't have a clear picture to work with here. Can we have a clearer one?

Truthfully, I assumed you had a mortgage and maybe a wife and kids to look after.
If you are making all this money to pay down your debts faster, that is commendable, make no mistake. But you might be able to relax your stance a bit if you have support. May I ask what your debt is? Did you finish college? Any chance in you finding a better job with your education?

[Bonecrusher Doc]

Agree with Karoht. Unless the mafia has given you thirty days before they start taking your fingers, it's not worth it. Maybe you can arrange something with your creditors (parents?) where you show them how you've set up automatic recurring withdrawals from your bank account each pay period or something like that for a long term payment plan.

In the old days, you could work (hard) during the summer and it was enough to pay for college tuition. Now the price of tuition has increased so much (in the U.S. anyway) it's not feasible anymore.

If you really need to make some money fast as an unskilled laborer you might look into some of the jobs with oil & gas companies out in Alaska or the Middle East or something. (No personal experience, just what I've heard.)

[Karoht]

If you want a job that would get you out of the house for a while and still net you room and board, I can point you to a few.
Cruise Ships-See the world, decent pay + tips but long days, room and board (with excellent food I might add), and they are nearly always hiring. If you speak english and another language (anything asian, hispanic) these are assets, if you learn new language quickly (or want a crash course) then you might really enjoy yourself.
Oil Fields in Northern Canada-Pay is quite good, they fly you in, they fly you home, varying rotations (10 days on 10 days off with 12 hour days is common), room and board, excellent benefit packages. Imperial Oil and ATCO are the two big names to google, I can probably point you to a few others.
Airline Industry-Typically you are home the same day but occasionally you stay abroad. Food is provided, lodging is typically provided if required. Travel benefits, decent health benefits. Pay is decent.
Teaching English Abroad-Lodging usually provided or reimbursed or discounted. Pay is decent. Job is challenging but rewarding, though expect long days. Contracts are usually for 2-3 years.

Just some ideas.

[lio45]

Oil Fields in Northern Canada-Pay is quite good, they fly you in, they fly you home, varying rotations (10 days on 10 days off with 12 hour days is common), room and board, excellent benefit packages. Imperial Oil and ATCO are the two big names to google, I can probably point you to a few others.

If he's in the U.S. (which statistically is way more likely) it's probably way easier for him to find work at the ND operations than in AB.


Airline Industry-Typically you are home the same day but occasionally you stay abroad. Food is provided, lodging is typically provided if required. Travel benefits, decent health benefits. Pay is decent.

My ex worked for United nearly 10 years, pay wasn't decent at all... surprisingly close to minimum wage, actually. Irregular schedules were horrible, too. On the other hand, plenty of free flights as side benefits of the job.

[Karoht]

If he's in the U.S. (which statistically is way more likely) it's probably way easier for him to find work at the ND operations than in AB.Quite likely, actually.


My ex worked for United nearly 10 years, pay wasn't decent at all... surprisingly close to minimum wage, actually. Irregular schedules were horrible, too. On the other hand, plenty of free flights as side benefits of the job.Wow, that's a shame. Westjet pay starts dramatically higher.

[Dorian Gray]

I knew a guy who drove four hours to get to his job and four hours back every day, five days a week. He would never get more than five hours of sleep a day. Six or seven years into this schedule he died of a heart attack. Healthy guy, in his mid-thirties.
So the short answer is that getting less than 8 hours of rest a day is Bad, capital B Bad. That being said, a lot of people do so, myself included- hell, I don't even work full time, cuz of school, and I still sleep six hours or less a night. Just... be careful.

[WarKitty]

If you want a job that would get you out of the house for a while and still net you room and board, I can point you to a few.
Cruise Ships-See the world, decent pay + tips but long days, room and board (with excellent food I might add), and they are nearly always hiring. If you speak english and another language (anything asian, hispanic) these are assets, if you learn new language quickly (or want a crash course) then you might really enjoy yourself.
Oil Fields in Northern Canada-Pay is quite good, they fly you in, they fly you home, varying rotations (10 days on 10 days off with 12 hour days is common), room and board, excellent benefit packages. Imperial Oil and ATCO are the two big names to google, I can probably point you to a few others.
Airline Industry-Typically you are home the same day but occasionally you stay abroad. Food is provided, lodging is typically provided if required. Travel benefits, decent health benefits. Pay is decent.
Teaching English Abroad-Lodging usually provided or reimbursed or discounted. Pay is decent. Job is challenging but rewarding, though expect long days. Contracts are usually for 2-3 years.

Just some ideas.

Honestly, given what I've read of your other posts - do this, if at all possible. Your family is full of minotaur crap and you need to be somewhere else.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

And I worry that's because my constant complaining over relatively trivial things has given you all a bad impression of them. My mom's dealing with what could possibly be the worst thing that could happen to her, being fired from the job she loved for over 30 years.

[Karoht]

And I worry that's because my constant complaining over relatively trivial things has given you all a bad impression of them. My mom's dealing with what could possibly be the worst thing that could happen to her, being fired from the job she loved for over 30 years.I respect that, I really do. That is pretty terrible.
Could you maybe give us the full story, rather than snippets? That would probably help.

[WarKitty]

And I worry that's because my constant complaining over relatively trivial things has given you all a bad impression of them. My mom's dealing with what could possibly be the worst thing that could happen to her, being fired from the job she loved for over 30 years.

Zousha, unless you've flat-out lied in half of your PWA posts, this is just false. Listen to me. I have the same sort of family. Healthy families support their children. Healthy families do not use aid as something to hold over their kids, certainly not to pushing children who are already working hard past their limits. Healthy families don't push on their children over what actual mental health professionals have said - and good mental health professionals know not to practice on their own families. Healthy parents don't berate their children for things beyond their control, nor do they try to control what career their children are.

If even half of what you've said before is true, your family has a problem, and it's not you. You need to see this - it's hard, I grew up in a family like that too. But that's the truth.

[Bulldog Psion]

In the long run, you can't survive on 4 hours of sleep or less. I've been attempting to get by on 4 to 5 hours sleep for about a year now, and I am starting to feel so bad that I'm worried about ending up in the hospital or dying. Perpetual headaches, rapid heartbeat a good part of the time, scratchy throat, aching eyes, occasional feelings of alarming weakness in the limbs, dizziness, feeling of stressed exhaustion and misery, difficult time regulating body temperature, hard time concentrating on the work I'm supposed to have extra time to do, tendency to doze off anytime I get too comfortable, then jerk awake with a spastic flop of limbs, alternation between extreme hunger and nausea.

It's not fun, and I wouldn't wish it on you.

Particularly since you're just doing this at the prompting of your family. WarKitty is right -- they should be helping you, not holding money hostage to force you to do more work and wreck your health in the process.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/excessive-sleepiness-10/10-results-sleep-loss
(or any other link you find on google for "consequences of sleep deprivation")

Does your family know that this could give you diabetes, obesity, and heart attacks? And I can't emphasize the high risk of a car accident enough, not just for your own sake, but realize that you will be struggling to stay awake on the same roads that have school buses full of children on them, etc. I wouldn't ask my kid to do something like this even if he stole my credit card and spent my life savings on booze & strippers.

If your family needs your paycheck you can work in some job that gives you room and board and you can send all the money home by Western Union or a shared bank account or something.

I googled "seasonal jobs with room and board". A few good hits. Remember you will save money on transportation as well.

[Mauve Shirt]

Ring of Sustenance, 2500 GP.

[Karoht]

Ring of Sustenance, 2500 GP.How did this thread go nearly a page without someone making this suggestion?

Zousha, any updates? Any luck on some of those out of town jobs? Did your parents comment on them?

[Glodart]

So, your job forces you to sleep 4 hours on 24?
Easy solution, find another job.
As for the answer to the question in the title, it is simple:
You don't, you can't and you shouldn't

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Not EVERY night. Just on nights where I have both jobs. Tomorrow I don't have my night job or on Tuesday, so I'll catch up on sleep on those nights by getting to bed early.

[Knaight]

Not EVERY night. Just on nights where I have both jobs. Tomorrow I don't have my night job or on Tuesday, so I'll catch up on sleep on those nights by getting to bed early.

This does help, but even with the catchup days it's not a good situation. The suggestions involving some sort of job where you stay on-site and not at home remain good ones, both because of your family situation and because these often do pay relatively well.

[The Extinguisher]

Catching up on sleep isn't really a thing. All it does is mess your already screwed up sleep schedule up even more. Honestly it's actually better for you to get the same amount of sleep every night.

But don't get just four hours. You will die earlier because of it. No less than six a night and ideally eight.

[SiuiS]

Not EVERY night. Just on nights where I have both jobs. Tomorrow I don't have my night job or on Tuesday, so I'll catch up on sleep on those nights by getting to bed early.

That doesn't really work. The solution to money trouble is get a better job, not another insufficient job. You need sleep. This is not an exaggeration. Your body requires it. Don't let generations of angry, unhealthy people somehow convince you otherwise.

[Karoht]

That doesn't really work. The solution to money trouble is get a better job, not another insufficient job. You need sleep. This is not an exaggeration. Your body requires it. Don't let generations of angry, unhealthy people somehow convince you otherwise.This.
Did you look into any of the jobs I recommended? You already have airport clearance so you can easily get cleared to working with an airline. If not as an air host, plane refueling is almost always looking for people.
And working on a cruise line is a rock solid resume builder.

[Gwynfrid]

Based on personal experience as well as on anything I have ever read on the subject (admittedly, not a lot) I believe it is very helpful to get out of bed every morning at the same exact time, no matter what time you went to bed (that assumes you get a decent minimum of sleep of course). This becomes more obvious as you get older (stuff I could get away with when I was 25 no longer worked so well at 30, and not at all at 35).

From your description of your situation it looks like you're going to have unnaturally short nights very often AND you're going to have a totally irregular sleep schedule. That sounds like a recipe for extreme tiredness, grumpiness, and generally physical and mental weakness leading to costly and painful mistakes at work and otherwise. I have no idea how badly you need two jobs but it sounds like a dangerous lifestyle. Your referrence to "access to caffeine" strikes me as an additional reason for concern. It's not just the caffeine, but more generally, help from whatever substance on an ongoing basis. Will you be driving to work? Sleep deprived driving is a life hazard.

I'm not a health professional but I recommend you see one before you go that route.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I don't have a driver's license yet, so I depend on my folks and public transportation for rides.

[Karoht]

I don't have a driver's license yet, so I depend on my folks and public transportation for rides.If you did have one, would that free up much (if any) of your time and allow you to get more rest?
I'm aware of why you don't have one, but I'm curious if having access to one would or would not make a difference in this case.

[Eloel]

Just as a curiosity, would changing the definition of "day" be healthy in terms of sleep scheduling?
Say, getting 4-5 hours of sleep every 11-12 hours, for 16 hour days?

[rlc]

You'll start knocking out as soon as you hit the pillow. Just try take public transit or hey someone else to drive you when possible. I've been there where you get maybe as Joe or two of sleep for long periods and eventually, i got into an accident. I was okay, but there were some pretty bad results in the long term, but that's a conversation for another day.

[ArlEammon]

I once lived on 1,2,3 hours of sleep per night for about 3 years. (Or was it 2)?
That's when I was remembering all of the child abuse I went through. It was rough but I did it.
You can too. And if you're getting 4 hours of sleep and you can't do it, don't be rough on yourself, because it looks like things are already rough, okay?
:smallfrown:

You can do it! And if you can't, hey, don't beat yourself up about it.

[Kjata]

I know of somebody who can help you.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/3343382-walter-white-600x450.jpg

[inexorabletruth]

I've done this several times over the years and now have a method for it. Here is my method, and I hope it helps you.


Simplify your home life. Do you live alone or with someone else? If you live alone, purchase disposable dishes and flatware; don't cook, just use the microwave or use ready-to-eat foods like fruit and vegetables. Also, try never to leave a mess. You'll find that coming home to a clean and organized house will help you relax more. The rest of your life will be cluttered, so it would help if your brain can come home to something that is simple, neat and clean.
Prepare for your next job before you go to sleep. Get dressed before you go to bed. If your shirt needs to be pressed or starched, then don't sleep in your shirt, but undergarments, pants, socks and shoes should already be on before you lay down.
Set alarms for every aspect of your life. At the very least, set one for when you wake up, one for when you need to be done eating and one for when you need to leave for work. The more alarms you have the better. This allows you to focus on the next step in your life and will clear some of the fog in your brain.
Purchase off-brand 5 hour energy drinks in bulk online. I've found that 5 hr energy drinks are quick to drink and help my mind stay clear without making me nauseous or jittery. It's better for you than coffee and most other energy drinks and easy to carry around in a pocket. I try to keep 2 on me at all times.
Take care of yourself. Remember to take your vitamins regularly. Burning the candle at both ends is hard. You'll need vitamins A, C, and E (at least) to keep going without breaking down.
Get some baby wipes, some good mouthwash and an electric shaver that can plug into your car. You won't always have time to shower, and that extra bit of sleep will start to seem more important than personal hygiene. An emergency hygiene kit in your car will allow you to freshen up at red lights on your way to your next job.
Take power naps. 30 minutes to 2 hours of sleep when possible can work wonders on your attitude and personal health. When possible, drive from one job to the next without going home in between; change in your car and take a quick power nap in your car at work. Do this during lunch breaks as well.



With this method, I can keep up functional momentum for 8 months to a year before I finally break down, if operating on 4 hours of sleep or less. I use some of these steps in my method now with 5 hours of sleep a night and remain generally healthy and happy. Good luck and stay strong!