Incarnate Weapon + Kensai

[CryptbornAkryea]

How... How would that work?

Kensai requires lawful, thus Incarnate should be assumed.

[paperarmor]

just decide that your Incarnate Weapon is your signature weapon? I mean some DMs may not allow it but it's a reasonable thing to rule I think.

[Chronos]

Essentia doesn't give the incarnate weapon a gold piece value, so you could get a +5 (or higher, with expanded soulmeld capacity) weapon with a bunch of special abilities on it. By the same token, though, you'd also have to spend some of your kensai enchanting to make it +1 permanently before you started laying on the special abilities, and that +1 wouldn't stack with the essentia bonus.

[CryptbornAkryea]

Hm, not stacking pretty well kills that idea.

[Techwarrior]

Not really. It's a lot like a Totemist's melds in that regard. If you want higher than the +1 enhancement, you suck it up and drop the Essentia into the meld. Otherwise, you can get away with shifting that essentia into something else and still have a +1 (plus all of your other Kensai stuff) weapon.

[Chronos]

I'd compare it more to Greater Magic Weapon. There, the standard trick is to get a sword with +1 of enhancement bonus and a whole bunch of special abilities, and then cast GMW on it. As with this case, the first +1 of GMW is wasted, but all the rest are still nice. Remember, Kensai can give you any item properties, not just more pluses.

[Red Fel]

I would argue that it does not work. Here's why.

A Kensai's Signature Weapon ability allows him to upgrade a weapon. Plain and simple. But you can't upgrade a soulmeld like that, save by investing essentia. It doesn't work. If you tried putting the Keen enhancement on an Incarnate Weapon, you'd fail; it doesn't work that way. And Kensai's Signature Weapon ability doesn't benefit all weapons of that type, but rather that specific weapon. (If this was a case of investing XP to gain a bonus with all longswords, for example, I think you might have a case, but it's not.)

You do have other options, however, when it comes to meldshaping. Dual wield. With the right proficiencies, you could wield your signature weapon and an Incarnate Weapon. Ironsoul Forgemaster. Check my sig for a handbook. Craft your own weapon. I have no idea how crafted weapon enhancements stack with Kensai enhancements, but I'm sure it's awesome. Admittedly, you can't get the Weapon Bond ability and max out Kensai unless you gestalt, but if you could? That would be sick. Soulbound weapon enhancement (MoI p. 111). It's a +1 bonus for lesser, or +3 for greater, and lets you invest up to 2 (or 4 for greater) essentia to gain a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. If bound, you can gain a bonus to confirm crits, or re-roll misses, or gain a bonus to initiative. It's taking the weapon you use anyway and making it even more awesome. Binding it as a magic item to a chakra (MoI p. 108). People forget you can do this. You can bind non-soulmeld magic items to chakras for some passive benefit. The details are negotiable with your DM, and it requires no feat investment or anything, just at least one level of a meldshaper class. There's a table on p. 109 with suggestions. I would suggest, since this is a Kensai signature weapon, that you include a +2 insight bonus to avoid being disarmed.

[CryptbornAkryea]

Wow, that's a whole lot of really good things to think about. Many thanks :)

[Chronos]

Quoth Red Fel:

A Kensai's Signature Weapon ability allows him to upgrade a weapon. Plain and simple. But you can't upgrade a soulmeld like that, save by investing essentia. It doesn't work.
Why not?


And Kensai's Signature Weapon ability doesn't benefit all weapons of that type, but rather that specific weapon.
Which your Incarnate Weapon is.

[Red Fel]

Why not?

Because soulmelds aren't actual objects. They're not weapons or armor. They're repeatedly described as "like" magic items. They're also described as being non-removable, having no weight, and so forth.

Now, you can make the argument that the soulmeld is described as a weapon, and has the form of a weapon. Walks like a weapon, quacks like a weapon, fine. That's "ask your DM" territory.

But even the FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) has this to say:

Can the weapon created by the incarnate weapon soulmeld be enhanced like a normal weapon?

No. An incarnate weapon is a manifestation of magical energy, not a real weapon. Its enhancement bonus depends entirely on the quantity of essentia invested in it.

Short version? Shouldn't work, but ask your DM.


Which your Incarnate Weapon is.

Your Incarnate Weapon is a longsword. It is not the longsword you chose as Kensai. In fact, there is no guarantee that your Incarnate Weapon is even the same weapon each time you shape it. You're forming a thing from the void of pure law; there's no guarantee that the thing you form is the exact same thing, anymore than the penguins you summon with Summon Nature's Ally are the same penguins each time. Once unshaped, I would consider it lost or destroyed, as per the Kensai description.

[CryptbornAkryea]

... So don't unshape it?

[Red Fel]

... So don't unshape it?

According to the FAQ (which is admittedly not RAW, but often a pretty good approximation thereof) that's irrelevant. A soulmeld cannot be enhanced as a normal piece of equipment can, which is the primary point of the Kensai's signature weapon ability. If you never unshape it, it's still not a weapon - it's just a persistent non-weapon. It's not compatible. Even assuming, in theory, that you could declare your persistent soulmeld to be your signature weapon, you wouldn't be able to use the signature weapon ability to enhance it. Only essentia can do that.

Again, this is ask your DM territory. I've heard of people using Kensai with the Soulknife class and its Mindblade ability; if your DM is cool with that, he might be cool with this, too. If your DM thinks it's kosher, ignore what I've said and roll with the rule of cool. (Because, frankly, I think that using a blade formed from the fundamental spiritual concept of Law in the cosmos as your personal signature weapon is really cool.) But based upon my read, it doesn't jive.