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View Full Version : Inane Last-Ditch Effort Combat Tactics



Fax Celestis
2007-02-15, 03:32 PM
I've seen these at least once over my career in gaming, sometimes more:

1. Party faces mob of orcs/devils/evil dudes that are far too many in number. The rogue/wizard/bard of the party (usually while invisible) sneaks into their center and drops a portable hole. The ranger/scout/ranged fighter/mage handing wizard then deposits a bag of holding into the portable hole. Death ensues.

2. Party faces mob and is out of AoEs. Fighter throws flask of lantern oil/greek fire into the middle of the group. Wizard/ranger shoots flask with flaming arrow. Explosion.

3. Party faces mob of enemies in cave. Party causes cave-in from outside. Wins.

Anyone else have inventive/inane combat tactics?

martyboy74
2007-02-15, 03:37 PM
Mr. Welch's ever popular, "Use thermodynamic science to asphyxiate the orcs' cave instead of exploring it first."

Josh Inno
2007-02-15, 03:44 PM
Hehehe. I haven't seen that one Martyboy.

DaMullet
2007-02-15, 03:44 PM
When I first say the title, I thought it said "Insane combat tactics." I wasn't far off, given your examples, though.

Lessee... As I'm sure you're aware, when a bag of holding is turned upside down, everything in it spills out. I like any scenario when you have a height advantage, as well as surprise. Usually this is off a balcony or if someone can fly.

Fill your BoH to the limit with Alchemist's Fire, fly up, and upend it. Use 50 or so at once.

Telonius
2007-02-15, 03:46 PM
When in doubt, light stuff on fire.

I was in a party that was searching out a tomb. We were only mid levels at this point. In the course of exploring the ancient tomb, our rogue found some jars that were trapped with a "Wail of the Banshee" that was supposed to go off if the jar were opened. We found about four of these. Our Wizard, who was somehow able to get a griffon ("Buster") as a familiar/mount, strapped them onto Buster. In the next encounter, we all stayed back. Our bomber pilot took to the skies, and dropped the jar into a square near all of the enemies. The jar broke (having taken falling damage), and the Wail spell went off, killing all of the enemies.

Tormsskull
2007-02-15, 04:19 PM
My regular groups last ditch effot upon seeing an especially powerful opponent is usually to yell "I disbelieve the illusion!"

Telonius
2007-02-15, 04:26 PM
My regular groups last ditch effot upon seeing an especially powerful opponent is usually to yell "I disbelieve the illusion!"

Isn't there some kind of shadow spell combo where the summoned thing is actually stronger, if you successfully disbelieve it? :smallamused:

ExHunterEmerald
2007-02-15, 04:28 PM
Okay...I'm playing a level two rogue and I'm in an illegal streetfighting ring.
And getting my ass kicked.
I tried to make an intimidate check (untrained, I think), to convince a gargoyle that I was empowered by a Celestial being. I knew Celestial from a religious background, and, well, I rolled an 11. It still worked, though.
Unfortunately, it decided to claw me in the face anyway. Down goes the not-so-sacred rogue.

Dreyden
2007-02-15, 04:46 PM
Sons of Gondor, of Rohan, my brothers! I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand! Men of the West!

martyboy74
2007-02-15, 04:49 PM
Isn't there some kind of shadow spell combo where the summoned thing is actually stronger, if you successfully disbelieve it? :smallamused:

Yeah, the shadow gnome. It makes Shadow Conjuration/Evocation 120% real if they disbeleive it. Makes you wonder what would happen to a Greater Shadow Evocation Contingent Teleport (Good lord, how are you supposed to italicize that?.

\/ Forgot that you had to go through Greater Shadow Evocation and Contingency.

Xilehxt
2007-02-15, 05:06 PM
You can't cast Teleport with Shadow conjuration. It only allows the summoning and creation subschools, while teleport is in the teleportation subschool.

Melrob
2007-02-15, 05:08 PM
My regular groups last ditch effot upon seeing an especially powerful opponent is usually to yell "I disbelieve the illusion!"

LOL, qft...I have to admit I've tried that myself in the past =D

ExHunterEmerald
2007-02-15, 05:11 PM
Sons of Gondor, of Rohan, my brothers! I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand! Men of the West!
The only thing insane about that was the sheer number of kills racked up.

KuReshtin
2007-02-15, 08:32 PM
2. Party faces mob and is out of AoEs. Fighter throws flask of lantern oil/greek fire into the middle of the group. Wizard/ranger shoots flask with flaming arrow. Explosion.


You don't even need to shoot the flask with that flaming arrow. Just make sure you've made some preparations first.

Take a strip of cloth, soak in the lantern oil, tie the strip of cloth around the neck of the flask.
When using it in battle, light the strip of cloth on fire, throw flask, preferrably aiming for the wall or ceiling just above the enemy so you get the full effect of burning rain. :smallbiggrin:

J_Muller
2007-02-15, 08:54 PM
You don't even need to shoot the flask with that flaming arrow. Just make sure you've made some preparations first.

Take a strip of cloth, soak in the lantern oil, tie the strip of cloth around the neck of the flask.
When using it in battle, light the strip of cloth on fire, throw flask, preferrably aiming for the wall or ceiling just above the enemy so you get the full effect of burning rain. :smallbiggrin:

Molotov Cocktail=Win

Maxymiuk
2007-02-15, 09:37 PM
My previous group used explosives.

...

Actually, it wasn't their last-ditch tactic. It was their only tactic. :smalltongue:

Ninja Chocobo
2007-02-16, 04:34 AM
As far as I know, burning oil only deals 1d3 damage a round for 2 rounds.

KuReshtin
2007-02-16, 06:06 AM
Molotov Cocktail=Win

As long as you don't fail your throw.. Definitely.


As far as I know, burning oil only deals 1d3 damage a round for 2 rounds.

Against level 1 kobolds, I'd say it'll be pretty effective.

Tor the Fallen
2007-02-16, 07:15 AM
I've got an evil fiendling (half fiend/ half halfling) whose last ditch effort involves emptying a bag of holding full of lantern oil onto himself, then immolating. My DM let me fill the whole bag up, or get 30 cubic feet in there, which is almost 250 gallons, or 1000 pints.

Tola
2007-02-16, 10:13 AM
The only thing insane about that was the sheer number of kills racked up.

Not entirely.

The Men of Gondor are highly experienced(living next door to Mordor will do that)-you'd call them about Level 6-10, probably more from the siege, if not in general experience. The men of Rohan, maybe a little more or less-the Uruk-Hai probably gave them a massive boost. And led by Aragorn and Gandalf, who are somewhat higher, and most certainly PCs.

Just my vague thoughts.

lumberofdabeast
2007-02-17, 12:24 AM
Step 1) Give halfling a ring of fire resistance and a feather fall spell.
Step 2) Give halfling lots and lots of exploding potions.
Step 3) Fashion catapult out of nearby sapling.

This really works, as the potions are each considered a separate source of damage, and resisted separately. He falls just fast enough to set off the potions without actually getting hurt himself.

Lo-Alrikowki
2007-02-17, 02:14 AM
The party I was DMing recently got pinned down inside a castle tower while an ogre was bashing at the door. Their dubious solution was to reinforce the door with the weight of their fallen comrades, climb the tower, find the barrel of oil-soaked rags intended to be used with a nearby ballista, light said barrel on fire, and drop it 30 feet straight down onto the ogre's head. Falling damage from a large object and burning ensued.

Beleriphon
2007-02-17, 02:23 AM
I feel necessary to share this. We were trapped in a tower surrounded by eighty or so kobolds and goblins. The DM had us run away from a dire bear, he specifically called it out as male, earlier. So our bard using ghost sound, and I should point out that there is no volume limit on that spell, produced the sound a female dire bear in heat smack dab in the middle of gobos and kobolds. Five rounds later we have a dire bear looking for some action show, only to be faced with a horde of tasty snacks.

Everyman
2007-02-17, 02:58 AM
Step 1) Give halfling a ring of fire resistance and a feather fall spell.
Step 2) Give halfling lots and lots of exploding potions.
Step 3) Fashion catapult out of nearby sapling.

This really works, as the potions are each considered a separate source of damage, and resisted separately. He falls just fast enough to set off the potions without actually getting hurt himself.

If I remember correctly, resistance is the total amount of damage you can shrug off per round, not per attack/effect. Ergo, you'll probably fry a halfling with that tactic.:smallamused:

Lord Nyax
2007-02-17, 03:11 AM
So our bard using ghost sound, and I should point out that there is no volume limit on that spell, produced the sound a female dire bear in heat smack dab in the middle of goblins and kobolds.
Was this a house rule? The SRD, as far as I can tell, says you can't make more than a certain amount of noise.

Here we go:

The volume of sound created depends on your level. You can produce as much noise as four normal humans per caster level (maximum twenty humans).

Granted, that's plenty loud for a dire bear in heat. I'm just confused.

J_Muller
2007-02-17, 03:15 AM
So our bard using ghost sound, and I should point out that there is no volume limit on that spell, produced the sound a female dire bear in heat smack dab in the middle of gobos and kobolds.


How did he know what that sounds like? Or should I not ask to keep my sanity?

Beleriphon
2007-02-17, 03:21 AM
Was this a house rule? The SRD, as far as I can tell, says you can't make more than a certain amount of noise.

Here we go:


Granted, that's plenty loud for a dire bear in heat. I'm just confused.

Yeah, but it was funny so it worked. As for how, its best not to ask perpetually drunk dwarven bards what they do in their off time.

jlousivy
2007-02-17, 03:26 AM
Once we were up against a dragon (who was in the air) and our wizards.... didn't have any fly spells, and our fighters.. had no bows. I, the gnome rogue had a few throwing daggers.
(we had him in a cave so we didn't worry about it flying... then it broke the ceiling.)

so obvious choice? werewolf fighter uses the gnome as a projectile (with both daggers outstretched) with his ungodly 30+ str. Thank god for ring of feather fall.

DM ruled all +to hit was based on my stats, if i was thrown high enough, but the werewolf's str bonus since... he was providing the main thrust behind the daggers.

the battle lasted about 40 rounds

Seffbasilisk
2007-02-17, 03:49 AM
As far as I know, burning oil only deals 1d3 damage a round for 2 rounds.

If you make a direct hit with the flask of oil and coat the enemy, then it catches fire, thats 10d6 fire damage.

For reference (even though it's Sake): http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html

I don't think 1d3 would make her go "AAARHH!"

CharPixie
2007-02-17, 04:59 AM
Couldn't you rocket jump with fire resistance and potions of explosion?

martyboy74
2007-02-17, 01:11 PM
One time we were in the same sort of dragon thing (14 level gestalt). I was playing a trip/disarm/reach monkey, so the dragon was flying a good 200 feet in the air to be sure I couldn't hit it. What we did was the swordsage grabbed on to the end of my collosal spiked chain, and I jumped and swung the chain, flinging the swordsage. He then used a shadow jump to safely land on the dragon's back. It died quickly after that.

Matthew
2007-02-17, 02:08 PM
If you make a direct hit with the flask of oil and coat the enemy, then it catches fire, thats 10d6 fire damage.

For reference (even though it's Sake): http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html

I don't think 1d3 would make her go "AAARHH!"

Eh? As far as I can see it's 1D6 every round:



Catching On Fire
Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don’t normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.
Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#reflex) to avoid this fate. If a character’s clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out. (That is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he’s no longer on fire.)
A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.
Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#reflex) for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.

Catching on Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#catchingOnFire)

Dant
2007-02-18, 01:31 PM
Two of my personal favorites, both from houseruled Fallout D20 campaigns.
The first was the party fighting some very large mutated thing that had just chased us out of a cave. One of our party members had an anti-material rifle with one clip of ammo. The rifle had been modified by a techy member of the party to be able to fire on full auto. For those who do not know, anti-material rifles are sniper rifles made to take out jeeps and light armoured vehicles. Strictly speaking it is illegal to use them against human targets. They are not meant to shoot on full auto. One round of burst fire later and the badguy is dead. Our party member is lying on the ground with half the bones in his body shattered.

The second had a totally different group of characters. We were fighting some nasty stuff underground. Think giant mutated bears. The was one of them against five of us. We weren't doing to bad until the entire party missed its attacks for a round. My skill monkey, who is horrible at fighting, shoves an anti-material rifle shell into its face and smacks it with his pistol butt. One dead bad guy and one mangled arm was the result.

Seffbasilisk
2007-02-18, 01:40 PM
Eh? As far as I can see it's 1D6 every round:


Catching on Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#catchingOnFire)

That's catching on fire. A chance if you're too near a campfire or a lit torch. This is being covered in flaming oil. Similar to being covered in acid, it's 10d6.

Deathcow
2007-02-18, 02:02 PM
Couldn't you rocket jump with fire resistance and potions of explosion?

I like the way you think. Cookies for you, sir.

Arceliar
2007-02-18, 02:08 PM
That's catching on fire. A chance if you're too near a campfire or a lit torch. This is being covered in flaming oil. Similar to being covered in acid, it's 10d6.

For total immersion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/obstacles.htm#hazards) that is correct on the acid, but not just being covered in it. Anything less than total immersion is still 1d6. A flask of oil is still 1d6, plus 1 point splash damage, assuming you ignite it. Same as alchemist's fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#alchemistsFire) or a flask of acid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#acid). Being dropped into a vat of boiling oil is 10d6.

Not a Paladin
2007-02-18, 02:43 PM
Here's an unusual one I thought of a while back (I'm sure no one has ever been crazy enough to actually try this):

Imagine that the DM has ruled that the acid stored in flasks in of the sulfuric variety. Now, note that sulfuric acid releases incredible amounts of heat when water is added to it (this is because water absorbs heat far more efficiently than sulfuric acid does). Such reactions release acid vapor and can explode in extreme cases. Now, imagine that a PC is surrounded by soldiers, with nothing but his waterskin and some acid...

Like I said, no one's crazy enough to try it.

Matthew
2007-02-18, 02:52 PM
That's catching on fire. A chance if you're too near a campfire or a lit torch. This is being covered in flaming oil. Similar to being covered in acid, it's 10d6.

Where is this rule, though?

[Edit]


For total immersion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/obstacles.htm#hazards) that is correct on the acid, but not just being covered in it. Anything less than total immersion is still 1d6. A flask of oil is still 1d6, plus 1 point splash damage, assuming you ignite it. Same as alchemist's fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#alchemistsFire) or a flask of acid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#acid). Being dropped into a vat of boiling oil is 10d6.

Ah, there we go. Arceliar is correct, you have to be immersed, not covered. A Fireball or Dragon's Breath Attack is the kind of thing they have in mind (though obviously those don't operate by these rules). Being on fire or covered in Acid is not sufficient.

Diggorian
2007-02-18, 03:47 PM
#1
About 12 yrs back in Spelljammer, Neogi raiders ambushed our ship with their favorite assault tactic: catapult-launched Umberhulks (ah, 2nd ed :smallbiggrin: ). We abandoned our ship but transfered to theirs and fought a runing battle down to their holds.

Our thief fighter with cursed-magic items slowly killing him, tells us to run to the top deck forecastle while he leads them to the bottom deck stern. We know he's evil, but dont question his valiance. When he reached the spot, he whipped out a Staff of Magi he'd just stole from our mage, then broke it over his knee. The explosion killed all our foes and sent us hurtling through space on the upper quarter chunk of their ship.

#2
12 years later two weeks back, same player had his dwarf thief-acrobat at the bottom of a 10 by 10ft greased-wall spike pit getting attacked by a large spider above. The rest of us were trapped behind a portcullis, actually my fighter was trapped under it -- other spiders biting at his legs :smallannoyed:

Dwarf took a full round act to fashion a slip knot with Use rope getting lucky with the AoO and regular bites missing. He then touch attacked the spider with his lasso while fighting defensive and looped a length around the slick base of a spike.

The spider tried to withdraw out but the greased walls and it's roped thorax caused it the fail a climb check so it stayed where it was. The dwarf on his turn planted his feet yanking on the rope and spending an action point. Boosted by a slew of circumstance bonuses and the AP, his high roll pulled the spider down into the spikes!

Over the next rounds he tied off the rope, rolled onto the spider's back then proceeded to stomp it further down the spikes. :smallbiggrin:

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-18, 03:50 PM
Man, this is totally "Ways to Piss Off the DM 101".

...

I'm stealing some of this.

illyrus
2007-02-18, 04:20 PM
Only 2 PCs in this party, around level 3, and we had to clear out an underground tower-like building that trolls had infested. The first 2 rooms we found alot of old weapons, tables, desks, and chairs. We scouted the next floor and found out that there were 3 of so trolls there. So we took off the legs to the tables so we'd have flat 10' by 10' by 1/2' wooden planks. We then went out of earshot of the trolls and nailed in nails, daggers, spear points, etc into the table tops to make them spiked. We made 3 of these over the course of a couple of hours. We then silenced ourselves, walked down and placed 2 of the spiked tables on the stairway near the trolls, poured oil over them, then put our blankets over them to cover them up. We had the last table top for a spiked tower shield. When the silence faded we shouted at the top of our lungs and up came the trolls. We tossed a torch onto the blankets, and pretty quickly the whole thing caught fire, with the trolls now having nails in their feet (basically acting like caltrops as long as they didn't regen the damage). One of PCs held the spiked tower shield while the other one fired down arrows at the burning trolls. I think we managed to kill 2 of them before the third bashed thru our table.

After that we ran like the wind and waited till another day to finish off the last troll.