Kensai granting BAB

[Nettlekid]

When a Kensai uses its Instill ability to grant BAB and/or saves to an ally, is that a bonus to attacks/saves or does it actually increase the target's BAB and/or base saves by the amount specified? If the latter, can this ability be used to enter prestige classes early by inflating those just before leveling up?

[Xerlith]

This is a "real" BAB that qualifies you for Prestige Classes, feats and such. When the effect ends, however, you stop qualifying and, per rules in the Completes, lose the PrC's abilities.

[AnonymousPepper]

Yeah, it works. But the catch is that unlike Earth Spell, which you can just hold on to the feats for until you reach a level where you don't need them any more with no ill effects other than dead feats, the Kensai ability only lasts for an hour/day. After it expires, you lose your access to the PrC's class ability. This will last until you reach sufficient BAB to actually stay in the class on your own.

[Jeff the Green]

This is a "real" BAB that qualifies you for Prestige Classes, feats and such. When the effect ends, however, you stop qualifying and, per rules in the Completes, lose the PrC's abilities.

Rather than actually get into this debate, let's say that this is debatable and some subscribe to the interpretation that that only applies to PrCs in CW and CA.

Inflating BAB just before level up is difficult, though, because you can't delay leveling; it happens immediately upon gaining enough XP to do so. You'd have to have it up as you defeat the last encounter.

[AnonymousPepper]

Rather than actually get into this debate, let's say that this is debatable and some subscribe to the interpretation that that only applies to PrCs in CW and CA.

Inflating BAB just before level up is difficult, though, because you can't delay leveling; it happens immediately upon gaining enough XP to do so. You'd have to have it up as you defeat the last encounter.

I'm pretty sure this isn't true, actually. Last I checked, you are absolutely allowed to delay leveling; you just don't get XP until you do, iirc.

[Nettlekid]

Yeah, I was also under the impression you could level up whenever you wanted so long as you had the XP to do it.

But back to the BAB point and that of PrCs. Let's assume the most drastic interpretation, that you do indeed lose PrC features if you no longer meet the requirements. Would you regain them if you later met the requirements again? Basically, what I'm hoping for out of this is that if you were to start a campaign at level 12 or so, a 1st level character who wrote a Kensai mentor into their backstory could take PrCs that have prerequisites of BAB: >5 or whatever but little else at level 2, keep training with that mentor every time they level up, until the BAB they got from the class was enough to qualify for itself. But that wouldn't work if for some reason you don't regain class features when you qualify for them again.

[Gemini476]

Even if you can't delay leveling, you can play pattycake with a Wight until you lose a level and then get someone to cast Restoration on you while you have the extra BAB.

For a fun little trick, the Warchanter can give everyone within 60ft the best BAB within that group. How would your ECL 20 party feel about giving everyone 30BAB?


As for losing prerequisites, what happens is pretty arguable. It's a rule from 3.0 that was removed in the 3.5 DMG and later added in CA and CW - however, if you use that rule then a core PrC (Dragon Disciple) gets weird. And the Ur-Priest. Amongst others.
Not to mention that I'm pretty sure CA and CW don't have authority to add that rule according to WotC's errata rules. But yeah.

[AnonymousPepper]

Yeah, I was also under the impression you could level up whenever you wanted so long as you had the XP to do it.

But back to the BAB point and that of PrCs. Let's assume the most drastic interpretation, that you do indeed lose PrC features if you no longer meet the requirements. Would you regain them if you later met the requirements again? Basically, what I'm hoping for out of this is that if you were to start a campaign at level 12 or so, a 1st level character who wrote a Kensai mentor into their backstory could take PrCs that have prerequisites of BAB: >5 or whatever but little else at level 2, keep training with that mentor every time they level up, until the BAB they got from the class was enough to qualify for itself. But that wouldn't work if for some reason you don't regain class features when you qualify for them again.

First off, that's not the most drastic interpretation, that's the direct interpretation.

And frankly that's cheesy as hell.

It's early entry cheese, except with no cost to you for it. At least Earth Sense+Heighten Spell+Earth Spell for early entrance into caster PrCs costs you two relatively dead feats until you retrain them.

You could do it, and it could work, but only with a very tolerant DM.