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Aez
2007-02-15, 07:45 PM
This comes from the MTG RPG thread.

Do you think a card based RPG could be fun?

- Stats cards has ressources to cast abilities/skills cards.

- The DM could make a small deck for each monster.

- You open a class booster everytime you level up.

- You open a item booster when you find some treasure.

- The DM gets special area cards to describe the surrounding to the players, they affect the battles with special effects.

It would be the end of the cumbersome and costly figurines and maps model of the current d20 RPG. There would be a high lvl of customization and strategy. Imagine an origin card that describe the character background and gives relevent bonus. It would also promote the RPG tournament at your local game store since rules on card and random booster is much less subjective than some badly done rule books with high lvl of interpretation.

However, it could diminish the roleplaying part of the current D20 system. You could try to balance this with roleplaying specefic card. Imagine an origin card that describe the character background and gives relevent bonus.

Any tough?

JadedDM
2007-02-15, 07:47 PM
Wasn't SAGA a card-based RPG?

TheOOB
2007-02-15, 08:05 PM
I think the concept might be kinda fun, but there is no way I'd make my players spend money every time they level up for new abilities in the form of a booster pack.

Yakk
2007-02-15, 08:10 PM
I could see a system where the encounter gives rewards.

The player says "I want item X", which is a card. The reward-level of the encounter, and the reward-level of the card, determine if the character gets the item.

Special moves/attacks/defences would go into a deck.

Cards in play would represent your current layout.

Hmm...

Aez
2007-02-15, 08:13 PM
I think the concept might be kinda fun, but there is no way I'd make my players spend money every time they level up for new abilities in the form of a booster pack.

You could always make them pick random cards from a big pile of items classed by strength.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-15, 08:15 PM
Conversely, play Everway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everway), which uses a tarot deck instead of dice.

crazedloon
2007-02-15, 08:15 PM
At one point i was building a system for rpgs based on cards but then i got lazy. it had to do alot with drawing from the deck for particular actions. and diffrent cards did diffrent things for your charactor however it was more of a 1 game type system not realy a campaign system like DnD

clarkvalentine
2007-02-15, 08:19 PM
Wasn't SAGA a card-based RPG?


Yes, but it bore very little resemblance to M:TG type collectible card games.

oriong
2007-02-15, 11:35 PM
A card-based game can be done and it can be interesting, however the main problem is that it shouldn't go too far.

A card based resolution system is perfectly fine. Either as a randomness generator (two opposing forces draw cards, or put down cards from their hand. the one with the higher value wins), or a more player/DM driven one where the cards can be interpreted to provide a guideline for what happens (for instance, if a player is attacked, he uses a card to defend himself and gets the Fool, he interprets this as some force of random chance intervening to aid him with a lucky accident like bird droppings landing in his opponent's eye, tripping and having the sword just miss him, etc.).

However, if card's go too far it will start to break continuity and believability. For instance if PC abilities (such as a wizard's spells or a fighter's feats) are based on random card draws then it won't make much sense (I could cast this spell a few days ago! but I can't now since I didn't draw it) this is especially true if cards are used to represent permanent or semi-permanent features of the game world or the PCs (like equipment or objects), or even worse if they're used for terrain (okay, you're walking through the jungle and...suddenly there's an island...wait that doesn't work...let me draw again...uh...a desert! You were teleported!)

Jothki
2007-02-16, 12:15 AM
Ooh, how about something more tactical as well, where the cards control how you can move as well. For example, based on your hand you might be able to either sidestep two squares, charge forward four squares, run forward six provoking attacks of opportunity, or back up one and attempt to hide.

Another, slightly less malicious thought: A good system for advancement might be a point buy for deck building. A character would customize their abilities by choosing to spend their points on different things. You could choose to be able to carry out a wide range of different skills and manuvers at the cost of not being able to situationally enchance them very well, or limit your range of abilities but leave yourself more points available to include cards that boost their power. Casters could choose to splurge on a few powerful spells, but be helpless when they have all been played, or have a large number of lesser spells which would take a long time for the caster to deplete. As your character increases in power, you would have more points available to purchase greater abilities.

Zincorium
2007-02-16, 01:21 AM
Ever played Dragonlance: Fifth Age?

I'm not a big fan of the dragonlance setting, but I played more than a few games of fifth age simply because the mechanics were so different and interesting. It wasn't collectable though, adding that much additional randomness would probably have broken the game completely. That and you only have so many published NPCs to put on the cards.

Yakk
2007-02-16, 10:10 AM
You might know a tricky move or a spell, but the situation isn't right for it. The elementals aren't in place, the ley lines don't work out, or he isn't leaving himself open to be tripped.

Games that don't place random access features on player abilities quickly reduce to using the same abilities in a given situation, because they are quite usually optional. To avoid this kind of low-level player cheese (look -- a human! I use my enlarged spiked chain on an AoO to trip, then use the bonus attack to disarm), you often end up with GM cheese (he's got magnetic boots! your trip fails), or a change of flavour just to avoid the cheese (the human .. I mean, the centaur charges).

Archaicwonder
2007-02-16, 10:36 AM
There was a game a few years back called Dragonstorm, where the abilities were cards that you would buy in random boosters, the more cards you had the more types of characters you could create. There were special cards for the GM to use for locations, or rewards, or story elements.

Yuki Akuma
2007-02-16, 10:39 AM
If you can somehow 'save' cards and don't have to use them right away, I could see this working for dice rolls and possibly special abilities.

It would really hurt versimilitude if it was used for items, though.

Unless, of course, the entire world was based around the idea of cards being used in battle (Baten Kaitos, anyone?). Then it might just be normal to have to draw cards at random (they don't work unless drawn from a shuffled deck?) and only have the item in question last for one round.

However, I find it silly that you say making people buy cards would save them more money than making them buy miniatures.

jkdjr25
2007-02-16, 01:54 PM
There actually is a card based RPG, Dragonstorm, I've played it once or twice and its pretty fun actually.

Yakk
2007-02-16, 02:07 PM
Cards do not have to be homogeneous.

...

Propose: two kinds of card.

The first kind of card is the "static, in-play" card. They represent character class features (spellcasting etc), weapons, armor, and other magic items.

The other kind of card is the randomization card. Your character has a "deck" of options in combat. This deck is built based on your character's abilities, skills and gear.

You draw your hand at the beginning of a fight. Each time your turn comes around, you play some combination of cards from your hand, then draw new cards from your deck.

...

Monsters are cards. The cards indicate what kind of equipment you should provide the monster, the rules for constructing the creature's deck, etc.

When a monster is defeated, and a treasure is found, the "value" of the horde is determined. Then the players put forward an item they want to find in the horde for their characters, some kind of contest is rolled, and if the player wins they get that item. (this is a form of cooperative storytelling -- plus, this means the character's gear is all cards that the player owns)

Simularly, character "experience" is based off of cards that the player augments their character with. After defeating a challenge, the XP value of the challenge is determined, and the XP is then spent by players on "class feature" cards.

Some of the cards are "merely" CCG, while others are both CCG and deck-draw cards.

...

Note that items and class features in play determine what cards and what combination of cards can be played from your hand. As your character gears up with better gear, they can play deadlier combinations of moves. Some items would even have cards that only work with that item.

Orzel
2007-02-16, 02:13 PM
Back in the 5th grade my friends used to play a card RPG. We used playing cards and index cards. The Index cards where the item and the playing cards were the rolls. Spades were attacks/defense, clubs were skills, and hearts and diamonds were magic/powers. It was super hero themed. Heroes vs Villians.

I always traded away my red cards so I could be Batman or Joker. "I called Batmobile first!!!"

Dairun Cates
2007-02-17, 01:40 PM
Well, it's not a full-RPG, but for one of the final battles in one of my campaigns, I heavily utilized cards for a rather interesting showdown.

Okay, so the party has been facing down this group of 8 military elite officials. However, 2 of them defected before they even started fighting and have been helping them. One of them joined them because they showed a bit of mercy and didn't kill him, and inadvertantly offered him a job with the world's biggest mercenary group of which one of the PC's is a member. Still, each of these guys has generally been powerful enough to warrant a boss battle on their own up to this point. However, the party's level 8 now, which makes this a lot easier for them. So, they find themselves fighting all 5 at once and using whatever cheese they can.

Well, one of the elite 8's fields of expertise was tactics. Instead of fighting the PC's, he challenged them to a really weird game of chess involving themselves as pieces. So, this second time, he generates a probability field. What this does is that both sides draw 5 cards at a time. The PC's pick randomly, the opponents pick from their deck whatever they want and know what the PC's cards are. Everytime a non-damage roll is made, a card is picked (either randomly for PC's or by decision for the enemies). Red's add that value to the roll; black's subtract. Red ace is instant hit, Black Ace is instant failure. All in all, this is supposed to look possible but be mostly unwinnable from the PC's without help.

I gave them 3 turns before their distraction had allowed for some support. They were offered support every turn for about 10 turns until they finally asked for help. Amazingly enough, they had taken down about 2 of the 5 and injured another one before they finally asked for help. Asking for help made their allies arrive who then allowed them to see the cards as well, evening the score and making it tactical instead of luck. This only lasted 1 turn though. Defeat them all, cue the insanely high CR final bossmonster that does not enough damage to actually kill the party (only 2 people that went unconscious were self-inflicted by the part), but looks hella scary.

Oddly enough, the PC's loved the battle when it was random as all hell. They said they didn't like it nearly as much when they actually had control. Go figure.

geez3r
2007-02-17, 02:02 PM
the major flaw i see with card based games in general, is the large sum of money and guarentee that you will get what you want.

Were-Sandwich
2007-02-17, 02:31 PM
I could see usig cards a reference cards, or information holder,s but I don't like the idea of hands or decks. It just rubs me the wrong way

crazedloon
2007-02-17, 02:47 PM
Well its not entirely an RPG but if you have played Munchkins its got the feel of a DnD type game condensed into cards. you draw loot from 1 pile of cards and critters from another then you fight based on something much like chalange rating and you can haggle for grouping and things like that. very fun.