Pathfinder Rogues: Eh?

[ThePoage]

I've just started playing Pathfinder, and my party needs a Rogue. I don't know how to be sneaky, or plant daggers in the backs of the unsuspecting! What kinds of Rogues are there? I have so many Rogue-related questions!

[Yanisa]

Generally speak look trough a guide, like this one (https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=13sCICmxwkq5yxdXVQqRr-H-SYrwUww13UFsKDcGJyJ4), it will give you all the inns and outs.

Besides that, Rogues are infamous for being an "eh?" class, so don't expect a lot out of them. A lot of classes can do better then a Rogue, depending on why your party needs a rogue (I bet trap finding, in that case play a druid, they have high perception, high wisdom and detect magic, no trap escapes a druid, and it will perplex your party as rogue substitute :smalltongue:).

[Sir Chuckles]

Go ahead and ask every question you have, and they'll all be answered in a short time.

Also fill in: What kind of setting are you expecting? Zombies? Demons? Normal bandits on the road? Army of Awakened Assassin Vines? All of the above?
What level?
What's allowed and what isn't allowed?
What's the party like?
What's your DM like?

[ThePoage]

Well...
It's a Mythic campaign, we're all level three, we're pirates, we have ranged damage, tanks, casters, and skillmonkies, we mostly fight humanoids, some magic but not much, we're almost always fighting of friggin' boats.
The party knows a lot more about Pathfinder (or and D&D, really) than I do, so they've got a bunch of characters made of solid cheese. I believe our monk has a CMD of 40, touch AC 37. At level 3, that's good, right?
Our DM has outright stated that he wants us dead, but so far hasn't actually used traps at all. Probably because we're mostly on boats.
Damn boats.

[Yanisa]

I believe our monk has a CMD of 40, touch AC 37. At level 3, that's good, right?

That beyond good, it is beyond impossible to get on level 3, unless you guys already have an insane high level of mythic levels (like 10, and then the whole game changes). I already frown at the high level of power, my level 10 monk barely reaches above the 30 AC and 25 touch AC, and she is build with the idea of insane high AC. (And nothing the DM throws at me gets passed my monks AC.)

Besides that, your party doesn't need a rogue, it got a skill monkey and at least one person with detect magic. Besides in a hostile environment and low level, Rogues don't really do well. They need to get to flank to sneak attack and they often need a couple of feats and levels before they start to contribute to combat. I bet almost any other class you could name is a better option, Rogues need love from the DM, a bit of party support and a dash of luck. Just ask yourself the question: Are you willing to walk behind enemy lines to sneak attack an enemy (and expose your backside to the rest of the enemies?) when the DM flat out stated he wants to kill you?

Are you sure you want to play a Rogue? Because your party doesn't need a Rogue, despite what they may say. If you are sure I think others here can help you build the best rogue there is, but still don't have too high of expectations. Rogues aren't good for killer DM campaigns.

[Twilightwyrm]

You say the party has Skillmonkies, but does it have a dedicated diplomat/face? Especially if your DM seems in a killing mood, negating his perfectly constructed ambushes by simply talking down the attackers would be an invaluable skill. It is not as easy to super boost diplomacy in Pathfinder as it is in D&D 3.5, but getting a fairly high bonus in this and bluff would not be terribly hard, and would likely aid you quite a bit in the long run.
With this in mind, check out the Spy and Charlatan archetypes for the Rogue, consider being a half-elf for free Skill Focus in one of those skill (Skill Focus is actually decent now), or a Human with the Focused Study alternate racial trait to eventually get Skill Focus in both plus one other skill. For Rogue talents, consider Charmer, Honeyed Words, Hard to Fool, Black Market Connection, and/or possibly Convincing Lie. I would also consider ranks in Swim and at least 1 rank in profession Sailor at some point, just because you are going to be on a ship, in addition to the Hold Breath talent if you see the need. After all, if you are surrounded by water, the best way to escape from a fight going badly might well end up being making for said water. Once your party gets enough gold, arrange to have a small alcove build into the underside of the ship, with a permanent Air Bubble inside, so if you are temporarily forces from your ship, you will have a place to go and regroup. Also, if your DM allows it, consider one level of Gunslinger (w/ the rapid reload feat), and/or one level of Sorcerer. You are still going to want to be able to help if combat comes up, but since you are not focusing on combat, boosting your hit rate won't exactly be a priority. Gunslinger lets you target your foe's touch AC, meaning you can still be doing damage and contributing to the fight, even if your smooth talking fails. (Also, see pitted bullets and alchemical cartridges) As for sorcerer, there are a number of helpful sorcerer spells you will benefit from having available, and Pathfinder's unlimited Cantrips makes having access to them quite valuable (Acid Splash Sneak Attacking wouldn't be a bad back-up weapon).

[Madwand99]

The party knows a lot more about Pathfinder (or and D&D, really) than I do, so they've got a bunch of characters made of solid cheese. I believe our monk has a CMD of 40, touch AC 37. At level 3, that's good, right?

The only way you will be able to contribute in this campaign is to figure out how the other PCs are so overpowered, and do the same thing. Do not try to make your own PC from scratch, because you can't using the rules of the game as-written. Those other players are cheating (somehow), and if you want to play in the same game, you have to also. If you have to, just play a clone of one of them, a twin brother or something, until you figure out what is going on and how to make your own awesome PC.

[Larkas]

Hmmm... From what you've told us, it seems like you'll benefit much more from an Archaeologist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/archaeologist) Bard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard) than from a Rogue.

[ThePoage]

Okay, update: I made a rogue/sorcerer, and almost immediately stumbled upon a deck of many things. I pulled a wish. I have until this Saturday to use it.
What do? Any suggestions? Also, does anyone know where to get black hair dye? I'm considering taking levels in warlock.

[avr]

If the warlock class is an option some 3.5 material is in play. Find out whether it is the PF or 3.5 version of wish ASAP.

BTW, for a rogue/sorc multiclass, multiclassing further as a warlock is a terrible idea. Look at arcane trickster instead. Appropriate hair dye comes in many neon colours as well as black.

About the wish; 3.5 wish can create magic items, IIRC up to 25000 gp in value. This is probably the best option if possible. Beware being teleported to the magic item instead or some such and word carefully.

If it's PF and you are currently under the effect of a spell which can be made permanent (darkvision etc.) that's not bad, but most likely you will want the +1 to some ability score.