Knowledge Domain -> Knowledge Devotion lose skills?

[hayek]

If I am a Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge Domain and 1 point in a spectrum of knowledge skills and I sacrifice the domain for Knowledge Devotion I assume I lose all my knowledge skills as class skills that come with Knowledge Domain.

Do all of those 1 point knowledge skills become 1/2 point in the ones that are no longer class skills? How do I retroactively account for this or do they remain class skills even though they came from KD?

[Dusk Eclipse]

That is Ask your DM territory, to avoid that problem I'd delay the trade for the K Devotion until level 2 and (ab)use the fact that "once a class skills, always a class skill" so you keep your ranks and you keep all of your knowledges at the level+3 rank cap.

[tyckspoon]

Ruleswise, I'm pretty sure it goes like so.. you no longer have those skills as class skills (aside from, presumably, the ones Cleric would have anyway, although this is kind of Situation Not Defined since prior to the Devotions there wasn't a way to lose a domain like that), so any further investments in your now non-class skills will be subject to the cross-class restrictions. The skill ranks you already have remain, although if any of your now cross-class skills are over the cross-class limit you'll have to negotiate with your DM about what happens to them. The 1 rank definitely doesn't convert down to 1/2 rank, tho, because skill points and skill ranks are different things. When you buy cross-class, one skill point gets you 1/2 rank. Buying in class, one skill point gets you 1 full rank. There is no provision for reversing that transaction later; once you've spent that skill point, you now have a permanent skill rank. You don't have to re-buy it should your class skills change later.

Personally, I'd just adopt the rules for multiclassing into things with different class skills.. your used-to-be-class-skill Knowledges still retain the level+3 cap, so as to avoid weirdness in going over the caps into undefined rules, but from now on you buy them at cross-class costs.

[eggynack]

I would use the procedure already in place for what to do if the ACF has too few skill points. In this case, that would mean removing points from other skills until you have enough to pay for your ranks in the knowledges. I mean, if you want to get really technical, you can't do this at all, because the retraining rules only cover substitution levels rather than ACF's. You could go with the class feature retraining rules, though that doesn't fit either, but then you're beholden to the rule that states that you can't make a change that would have been illegal at the time, or a change that would make a later choice illegal. That would mean that you just can't do this. The pulling points method would likely work fine, however.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think no matter when you make the trade, you should no longer be able to treat them as class skills and lose the benefit you had previously. That means pay up more for the ranks you had, or lose them. If you don't like it...spend a feat on it instead of getting it for free. I can't even believe people would argue against that. I don't see too many people allow martials to retrain their feats that got them into a prestige class and then get to keep the levels and/or advance further in it. This is no different. Except it's to min-max a CoDzilla class instead of a mundane, so if anything it's MORE sketchy and wrong.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I think no matter when you make the trade, you should no longer be able to treat them as class skills and lose the benefit you had previously. That means pay up more for the ranks you had, or lose them. If you don't like it...spend a feat on it instead of getting it for free. I can't even believe people would argue against that. I don't see too many people allow martials to retrain their feats that got them into a prestige class and then get to keep the levels and/or advance further in it. This is no different. Except it's to min-max a CoDzilla class instead of a mundane, so if anything it's MORE sketchy and wrong.When I play a mundane I almost always dip Cloistered Cleric... then again I don't try this weird stuff.

[Troacctid]

It was my impression that you had to make the exchange at the same time you'd get the original class feature. Meaning you take Knowledge Devotion at 1st level and never get the class skills in the first place. And if you want to get it later, you need to spend a feat slot for it.

[nedz]

It was my impression that you had to make the exchange at the same time you'd get the original class feature. Meaning you take Knowledge Devotion at 1st level and never get the class skills in the first place. And if you want to get it later, you need to spend a feat slot for it.

That's how I would read it though there is another solution. In CChamp there is a list of alternate domains you can sacrifice for Devotion feats: so pick one of those as one of your other domains and exchange that for Knowledge Devotion. I think that the feat is likely a better exchange however this option may be possible.