Chameleon

[.Zero]

After a relatively long period of full immersion in Druid (which is not over yet, though) i'd like now to focus on the Chameleon PrC.

Specifically, now I'm interested in how to improve his spellcasting abilities. I heard about tricks that grant him 9th level spells, but never found a detailed explanation of how this works. Surely this involves dirty tricks. Another thing i'd like to know regards focusing on his "normal" spellcasting, which may be broken if someone searches all base classes and PrCs spell list and cherry picks up spells that are lower level than normal (like Trapsmith, Telflammar Shadowlord and Duskblade, for example).

So, reassuming: which spell list (and of which class or PrC) or domain list features spells that are lower level than normal? And how can a Chameleon cast spells above 6th level?

[thethird]

the chameleon handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=135.0) surely answers the questions you pose.

[.Zero]

I checked that handbook indeed, but i found it very confusing and incomplete. I opened this thread because i needed some advice from the Playground.

[Gildedragon]

It has to do with heighten spell shenanigans.
You heighten your spells to eight level, thus when you take extra slot you get a 7th level slot, repeat for 8th, and then again for 9th
To get access to enough feats my guess is DC shuffle or Mystic Theurge bootstrapping (leveling spellcasting twice per level as it is both arcane and divine casting class)

As for discount spell lists: check artificer handbooks as the cherry picking from spell lists is more of their schtick

[Fouredged Sword]

Don't try for 9th level spells on a chameleon base. It isn't what the class is supposed to do, and it is the worst kind of cheese. If you want to play a chameleon, think diversity and flexibility, not power. You are a wizard/cleric at the start of the day, only to become a fighter/rogue at the end.

[WinWin]

It involves the use of Versatile Caster and things like an Illumian racial ability to heighten spells, as well as the use of metamagic like Sanctum Spell.

So a max level Chameleon 'knows' all the spells on whatever list spellcasting focus grants them. Their 6th level spells can be sacrificed by versatile caster to cast a 7th level spell. Their 6th level spells with the Sanctum Spell metamagic are strated as 7th level spells out of their sanctum. They can be sacrificed to spontaneously cast an 8th level spell. Same deal with the Heighten effect from the Krau Sigil.

It's something like that anyway. Brighter minds than I have probably come up with more elegant methods. It's debatable how useful this trick is, simply due to the feat and spell slot investment.

[OldTrees1]

I don't know if it will help, but just in case:
Chameleon-as-a-Base-Class-(PEACH) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?90955-Chameleon-as-a-Base-Class-(PEACH))

[Gildedragon]

It is easier to go Heighten + Sanctum + Practical Metamagic (Heighten)

Once you got your 9th level slot, DC shuffle the feats away for something useful.

Note that the earliest you can get to these shennanigans is 15th level, and you need a scroll of dark chaos shuffle (1 embrace + 1 shun) or an item of Psychic Reformation.

You devote feats 1-3 to the three metamagics you need. At level 14 you use either use the scroll(s) of DCshuffle or the Psychic Reformation to turn level 12 feat into Extra Slot: Bam! 7th level spell slot. Level up, use 15th level feat for Extra Slot: 8th level spell slot. If you have enough Int for Bonus Spells of 8th (+8 mod) then you can DC shuffle right there and then the 9th level feat into Extra Slot (if not you'll have to cast embrace on one day, shun the next). DC shuffle feats 1-3, and you're done.

it is 500xp per shuffle, and 150 xp to use Psychic Reformation to solve lvl 12 stuff at lvl 14

Edit:
Actually cheaper way and much cheesier way, that gets you 9ths at 12th level: Take 2 levels of chamaleon (using your floating feat for sanctum spell); Use 1 & 3 for Heighten and Practical Heighten; Go Mystic Theurge 4 to get your 6th lvl slots at level 11, psy ref level 6 and 9 feats for extra slots, at 12 you get your 9th level extra slot. DC 1 and 3 into something useful.

Edit
I in no way approve of this cheese. But the means are there.
also, if you use the fast track route you miss out on most chamaleon abilities.

[John Longarrow]

.zero

Also check with your DM about how some of these tricks work. I've seen people argue back and forth what lets you do what. If you have a character built around doing X at higher level (lots of cheese) and your DM shuts down that cheese, it can lead to arguements. This is very true if you've already spent a lot of time leveling up to the point where you try starting the cheese to find out your DM doesn't agree with your reading of the rule.

[.Zero]

It is easier to go Heighten + Sanctum + Practical Metamagic (Heighten)

Once you got your 9th level slot, DC shuffle the feats away for something useful.

Note that the earliest you can get to these shennanigans is 15th level, and you need a scroll of dark chaos shuffle (1 embrace + 1 shun) or an item of Psychic Reformation.

You devote feats 1-3 to the three metamagics you need. At level 14 you use either use the scroll(s) of DCshuffle or the Psychic Reformation to turn level 12 feat into Extra Slot: Bam! 7th level spell slot. Level up, use 15th level feat for Extra Slot: 8th level spell slot. If you have enough Int for Bonus Spells of 8th (+8 mod) then you can DC shuffle right there and then the 9th level feat into Extra Slot (if not you'll have to cast embrace on one day, shun the next). DC shuffle feats 1-3, and you're done.

it is 500xp per shuffle, and 150 xp to use Psychic Reformation to solve lvl 12 stuff at lvl 14

Edit:
Actually cheaper way and much cheesier way, that gets you 9ths at 12th level: Take 2 levels of chamaleon (using your floating feat for sanctum spell); Use 1 & 3 for Heighten and Practical Heighten; Go Mystic Theurge 4 to get your 6th lvl slots at level 11, psy ref level 6 and 9 feats for extra slots, at 12 you get your 9th level extra slot. DC 1 and 3 into something useful.

Edit
I in no way approve of this cheese. But the means are there.
also, if you use the fast track route you miss out on most chamaleon abilities.

It's still confusing for me... what's the poin of PsyRef the Extra Slot feat? Shouldn't i lose the spell slot if i lose the feat?
And why didi you mention Mystic Theurge? Is there anybody out there that counts MT dual progression as rising both the Chameleon's arcane and divine spellcasting??? Does this means that, in a Chameleon build, levelling as a MT is like gaining +2 caster level per level??? Am i missing something, or this is unacceptable? I mean, is worst than any initiator class + Legacy Champion!



.zero

Also check with your DM about how some of these tricks work. I've seen people argue back and forth what lets you do what. If you have a character built around doing X at higher level (lots of cheese) and your DM shuts down that cheese, it can lead to arguements. This is very true if you've already spent a lot of time leveling up to the point where you try starting the cheese to find out your DM doesn't agree with your reading of the rule.


Don't try for 9th level spells on a chameleon base. It isn't what the class is supposed to do, and it is the worst kind of cheese. If you want to play a chameleon, think diversity and flexibility, not power. You are a wizard/cleric at the start of the day, only to become a fighter/rogue at the end.

Don't you worry, boys, i'm not even thinking of doing such a thing in a campaing. I am simply curious!

[Gildedragon]

You don't PsyRef the extra slot feats, you Psy Ref the other ones.
Also the Mystic Theurge trick doesn't work I've had pointed out because Chamaleon's imitations can't qualify for prcs