Monk Unarmed Damage total Dice for level 20 build.

[m149307]

Ok, so I did some math on a build that I found. I am unsure as to if the number I got was correct and I was hoping if you guys could help me by chance. The build is Monk (Passive Way) 2/psychic warrior 2/swordsage 1/initiate of draconic mysteries 4/SS+1/shadow sun ninja 1/fist of the forest 3/warshaper 2/IoDM+4 (I will probably change it around depending on how soon I can get higher damage). If anyone can help, that would be awesome.

[m149307]

bumping for help

[Jeff the Green]

It's going to be 1d12 or 2d6, depending on what order you apply the bonuses. If FotF's increase is last, it's 2d6 (1d6 from monk, up two die steps to 1d10 from IotDM, and then up one monk step to 2d6 from FotF); if first or second it's 1d12 (1d6 from monk, up a die step—from IotDM—or up a monk step—from FotF—to 1d8, then up the other to 1d10, then up a die step to 1d12).

With Superior Unarmed Strike it'd be undefined, as you'd have 1d8 from monk, then up to 1d10, then 1d12, and then you can't go up a die step (since there isn't a higher die for damage) or monk step (since monks don't have 1d12 as an option). If you let it base it's SUAS damage on HD rather than increased monk level, it'd be 2d6, up two die steps to 2d10, and then can't go up a monk step or 2d6, up a monk step to 2d8, then up two dice to 2d12.

[m149307]

That's really all the damage I would be doing at level 20??

[Grayson01]

That's really all the damage I would be doing at level 20??

What is your effective Monk level for unarmed Strike?
a 20th level M sized Monk deals 2d10
a 20th level L Sized Monk deals 4d8

Those are the caps for both M and L sized Monks because the Damage does not increase into epic levels.

You would wanna add the FoTF at (but only if you were a Monk for 5 levels before that unless you have Supream Unarmed Strike)6,7,8 level to get the increase.

The wording of FoTF Unarmed Damage increase is worded so that inorder for it to increase your damage 1st level must be taken when you have 1d8 damage already to Boost it to a 1d10 and then the 3rd level should be taken before any more increases happen.

Okay so far From what I have your effectoive Monk level would be 12 with 2 Monk, 1 Shadow, 1 SwordSage, 2 FoTF, 2 IoTDM, 4 from Surpeam Unarmed Strike.
A M sized Monk Damage is 2d6
a L Sized Monk Damage is 3d6

[Gildedragon]

You can increase your size category by two with the following:

1: chop your arms off
2: Get warforged arms grafted on: Mighty Arms (Faiths of Eberron) 1kgp
3: Get a Battlefist (Eberron Campaign Setting) 2.6kgp
4: Get an Ectoplasmic Fist embedded quori shard (Eberron Campaign Setting) 4kgp

So if you are effectively Medium your attack counts as Huge
If you are Large your fists count as Gargantuan... well i got no idea what dice of damage they'd be doing
but it is a lot

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Let's say you have a cohort that you can custom-build for the purpose of buffing you. Let's also say that he can cast Greater Mighty Wallop at a caster level of 20th, and that he can cast Giant Size at a caster level of 19th into a Ring of Spell Storing for you. This can be accomplished with a Sorcerer/Wu-Jen/Spellthief/Ultimate Magus with Master Spellthief.

You should have an effective Monk level of 20th for your unarmed damage. You can get +5 for a Monk's Belt, +4 for a Monk's Tattoo (MoF), and +4 for Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB), so you only need either seven levels of Monk progression, or three levels of Monk progression and Fist of the Forest to have the maximum 2d10 base (medium) damage. Warshaper is only useful if you're in a form other than your own, which if your DM will allow this to include size increases then you'll be fine.

The smaller your character starts out, the better. You can apply your effects in the most beneficial order, which is important.

Tiny unarmed damage.
Greater Mighty Wallop is +5 sizes, to gargantuan, which is still within its limitations.
Giant Size increases you from tiny to colossal, which is six size increases, so +6 sizes.
Improved Natural Attack feat is +1 size.
Warshaper is +1 size.
Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries is +2 sizes.

That's a total of Tiny +15 sizes, or nine steps above colossal.

Large Monk 20 damage is 4d8, so looking at the weapon damage sizes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize), that 2d10 to 4d8 is the same as two Bastard Swords increasing one size, or 2d10=2(1d10). So that's 4d8=2(2d8) for further size increases. A bastard sword that goes up one more size goes to 3d8, so that would make your huge unarmed strike deal 6d8. Up one more size would be 4d8 for one bastard sword, or 8d8 for your gargantuan unarmed strike. Going to colossal is 6d8 for one bastard sword, or 12d8 for your unarmed strike. That's 12d8 at colossal, and you still need to give it nine more size increases. Turn that into 12d8=6(2d8), and three size increases turns 2d8 into 6d8, which puts you to 36d8 at colossal +3. Continuing the pattern, 36d8=18(2d8), for 108d8 at colossal +6. Once more, 108d8=54(2d8), for 324d8 base unarmed strike damage at colosal +9, for 1,458 average base unarmed strike damage per hit.

[Mato]

The smaller your character starts out, the better. You can apply your effects in the most beneficial order, which is important.If something deals X at medium it does X at medium. -2 size & +2 size increase does not deal A*2*2, it deals X because it's medium and no amount of faulty logic will change that. Also the rules compendium contains an updated size table that includes a 2d10 entry which will help you out in filling in some of your made up numbers.

The pattern for 2d10 size increases is first convert to the more standardized d8. Then the damage doubles every two sizes. First 4d8, then 6d8, then 8d8 (twice that of 4d8) and then 12d8 (twice that of 4d8). So from that we can calculate Colossal+9, 16d8 (#1, twice that of gargantuan), 32d8 (#3), 64d8 (#5), 128d8 (#7), and 256d8 (#9). We also know the next value (+10) is 384d8, either by using the same method of addition off the even based colossal value, or by adding half the difference between #9 and #11 (512d8).

[Anlashok]

Plus size explicitly caps out at colossal. Colossal+ is only to describe melee damage for great wyrms, so it's unclear if the monk would be able to go beyond that point himself.

[m149307]

Wow, that is alot more than expected. The build that I posted said between 36d8-48d8. The 324d8 is OP lol

[Mato]

Plus size explicitly caps out at colossal. Colossal+ is only to describe melee damage for great wyrms, so it's unclear if the monk would be able to go beyond that point himself.Negative ghostrider.

The only thing that says there is no size category past colossal is the entry that contradicts this by excluding it's colossal+ self. Unless you know, the passage meant there wasn't any printed rules for handling creatures larger than colossal so here is how the next category works.

Also, per the official game rules found in the faq supplement, pg20, a monk's size progression uses the weapons table in the PHB and not the creature size progression. You remember this snippet? "A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder."

Yeah, you can make a colossal++ dagger and it is a valid two-handed weapon for a colossal creature. It exists and just because you claim there is no default creature entry that can wield a colossal++ greatsword doesn't mean it can't be made or that we cant find a way to wield it (colossal+ and strongarm bracers).

And when it comes to unarmed strike, the damage, but not the actual size, is increased on a clearly uncapped table. There is no threat of hitting a wield limitation or pretend threats from creature size limitations.

[Feint's End]

You can increase your size category by two with the following:

1: chop your arms off
2: Get warforged arms grafted on: Mighty Arms (Faiths of Eberron) 1kgp
3: Get a Battlefist (Eberron Campaign Setting) 2.6kgp
4: Get an Ectoplasmic Fist embedded quori shard (Eberron Campaign Setting) 4kgp

So if you are effectively Medium your attack counts as Huge
If you are Large your fists count as Gargantuan... well i got no idea what dice of damage they'd be doing
but it is a lot

This is a good start but remember you have to be a Kalashtar for it to work. Anyways this is just a start.

2 increases from being a psywar (tashalatora is a thing)
1 from improved natural attack
2 from Battlefist and quori embedded shard

I can't remember some others but it should be possible to get up to 9 size increases or 64d8 damage per attack (this is a point of argument because even though we can guess the dice progression after 12dx from what we know about size increases but it's in no way RAW).

Edit: forgot greater mighty wallop for 4 size increases.

On a short note I disagree with not being possible to increase beyond colossal. It is unclear if it is RAW but fairly logical to assume it is possible to get bigger (or at least bigger size categories) since you know ..... ah 2 Kilometer high beast would deal significantly more damage than the tarraske.

[Curmudgeon]

The only thing that says there is no size category past colossal is the entry that contradicts this by excluding it's colossal+ self.
Well, you know, except for the definition itself (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_size&alpha=S):
size

The physical dimensions and/or weight of a creature or object. The sizes, from smallest to largest, are Fine, Diminutive, Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Huge, Gargantuan, and Colossal. And Colossal+ is explicitly stated not to be a larger size, but just a way of speaking, so there's no contradiction:
Colossal+ Size: Although there is no size category larger than Colossal, the largest advanced dragons have a greater reach and deal more damage with their attacks than other Colossal dragons. These dragons are said to be of Colossal+ (“Colossal plus”) size. A Monk can get up to Colossal size, and never larger. Plus every magical (including psionic) size booster won't stack with any other.

[Mato]

And Colossal+ is explicitly stated not to be a larger size, but just a way of speaking, so there's no contradiction: A Monk can get up to Colossal size, and never larger.I said that possible you/i/we are interpreting the introduction in colossal+ incorrectly, your rebuttal was to cite your incorrect interpretation and a glossary created before the draconomicon created the 3.5 rule entry on colossal+ as well a total lack of understanding of the discussion at hand (we're not increasing a creature's size to begin with). As far as rebuttals go, you're off to a very poor start that speaks volumes of how little thought you put into it.

First thing I need you to do is stop googling your rebuttals and read the page your quote is on.
Draconomicon page 99, under advanced dragons's size entry: A normal-sized dragon becomes Colossal when it gains one age category (3 Hit Dice) beyond great wyrm. It increases to Colossal+ when it gains an additional four age categories (+15 HD total). Page 100, a couple sentences after your googled quote also states The size modifier for these dragons remains –8. It wouldn't remain -8 if size was never altered. Just like colossal+ is used as a size entry in the example. Like it or not, the advancing dragon rules, size, even the colossal+ all behave as if it is a valid size. Watch the video in my signature before you reply and realize that if you desire to maintain your stance then you may consider things that I have agreed to disagree on my end and will not care to further address this element even if you do.

I also brought up the monk doesn't even use the advancing monster size chart, he uses the weapon chart (both per faq and per the best spell ever). Just like I also reiterated the fact we're increasing the monk's damage, not the monk's size. Since you missed it before, allow me the change to make generous usage of the B and U buttons of this forum to quote what I just called the best spell ever (in context of 'for monks').

Mighty wallop increases the damage of a bludgeoning melee weapon by one size category without increasing the dimensions or weight of the weapon. For a Small weapon, find the weapon's damage value on the table below and adjust it to the value in the right-hand column for the duration of the spell. For a Medium or larger weapon, refer to Table 2-2: Increasing Damage by Weapon Size (DMG 28).

[Curmudgeon]

Giant Size increases you from tiny to colossal, which is six size increases, so +6 sizes.

... your rebuttal was to cite your incorrect interpretation and a glossary created before the draconomicon created the 3.5 rule entry on colossal+ as well a total lack of understanding of the discussion at hand (we're not increasing a creature's size to begin with).
If you're talking about some build other than the one you were commenting on, you should state so. Because there's very definitely a size increase to the Monk posited here.

[m149307]

Can we please get back on topic a bit more? I want to know the damage for the build, not hypothetical damage. Please and thank you.