Pathfinder Barb/Druid meets Monk and what it means for "unarmed" damage

[TomeGnome]

I'm tweaking a Behemoth Hippopotamus build (because bite damage), and the build I've been working on is a little feat-heavy, so I was considering taking a one-level dip into monk to get Improved Unarmed Strike and use the monk bonus feat for other things. However, just by throwing on a monk's robe, I can treat my unarmed damage as that of a 5th level monk.

I'm well aware that natural attacks do not count for a monk's unarmed attacks on their own. However, after taking Feral Combat Training for my bite attacks, would an increase in unarmed damage also mean an increase in said natural attack damage? The feat reads:

Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

The thing is, "effects" is not a defined term in Pathfinder, which means it's not really restricted to just feats or just class features or just spells. Can we read "effects" to mean "anything," therefore meaning Feral Combat Training makes anything that augments an unarmed strike fair game? Is there a reason that a class feature and a Monk's Robe wouldn't also augment a natural weapon that's been honed into its own version of unarmed strike?

I want to hash this out as much as possible, because my build is already getting ridiculous bite damage without this additional boost. My GM is going to look for every possibly excuse to not let it stack with all of the effects I already have in place (Strong Jaw, Improved Natural Attack, Hive Totem Toxicity, and Titan Strike from the mythic adventures). Even before the boost from the Monk's Robes, I'm essentially dealing Colossal ++++ damage, and then top that off with a Greater Vital Strike. I've calculated a Furious Finish dealing easily into the 2000 damage range, so my GM is eager for excuses to nerf me.

[Runeclaw]

Sounds like your GM should just use the excuse "that character build doesn't fit in with the campaign I want to run"

[Orsyn]

Yes, your monk unarmed damage would take effect, replacing the attack's normal base damage. This was the basis for a white-haired witch build I ran a while back.

FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1g1#v5748eaic9rbe

[TomeGnome]

I don't think it would replace the wild shape's bite damage though. The rules under the magic section regarding polymorph (which apply to wild shape) state "While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function."

Part of it comes down to how you define what is part of the original "form" for the wild shape effect. I've tended to think of it as more of the sort of thing that actually changed your appearance or structure. A monk's unarmed strike could easily be argued to be an effect based on his skill rather than his form, and is meant to augment whatever damage is already there. It's just that most people would only have 1d3, so it augments it to 1d6.

How I'd argue it works:

It starts as 1d4 bite, then becomes 1d8 for the level 5 monk unarmed damage, and THEN gets replaced by the hippo bite attack after he wild shapes. The question then is, would THAT damage (meaning that of the hippo) scale with level? I tend to think it should, but that's coming from a biased source. If nothing else, I'd assume it at least replaces the monk's damage, even if it doesn't scale.

I can easily see Improved Natural Attack still applying, as well as Strong Jaw. Hive Totem Toxicity is less straight forward... it increases the bite damage granted by Animal Fury, but since I'll be raging, I'll already have that rage power active and it wouldn't make sense to randomly grow a weaker/smaller mouth for Animal Fury, so my GM rules that Animal Fury wouldn't decrease any existing bite damage and that Hive Totem Toxicity would still increase it one step.

That got confusing. Back to the main point: Does the monk class feature make the hippo bite scale?

[Ssalarn]

The way it was explained in the thread that FAQ was based off of, no. The monk UAS damage would completely replace the hippo's normal bite damage so there's no reason to even be a hippo.
If your monk medium UAS damage was set to 2d10 by the ability, then you could use FCT to replace your natural attack damage with the UAS damage. Since the large hippo's natural attack already does 4d8, you're doing the exact same amount of damage.

Remember, monk damage increases aren't size bonuses, and they don't even follow that scale. They set your damage to the new amount at the appropriate levels.

[TomeGnome]

My medium monk damage would be nowhere near 2d10 though. It'd only be 1d8. Then again, I wouldn't be a medium monk, would I? Still, as a huge monk, I'd still only be dealing 3d6, which is hands down worse than the 4d8 hippo base damage. After Strong Jaw, Hive Totem, Improved Natural Attack, and Titan Strike, my damage would scale to be 18d6 (average around 63 damage) versus 27d8 (average around 121 damage). Quadruple those figures with Greater Vital Strike.

So that being said, the one level monk dip looks like a bust, but I still need FCT to have my bite count as an unarmed attack so the size increase from Titan Strike will still stack...