What is the Craft DC for Gunpowder? (And other questions)

[sabelo2000]

My DM and I are working on the details for my character concept, a Rogue who uses a black-powder shotgun as a breaking tool (a "Master Key"). He has agreed that, provided I can craft the ammo and powder myself, he will allow the tool in the game. I will also be allowed, over the course of the campaign, to develop the Master Key tool into a shotgun weapon.

The issue at hand is, we can find no reference in PHB, DMG, or Pathfinder to suggest what the Craft DC should be to make gunpowder. Obviously the powder itself will be an (Alchemy) skill, while fashioning any modifications or new versions of the Master Key will involve (Weaponsmithing) as well as possibly a Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) check to create significant advancements (breech-loading cartridges, for example).

Any suggestions from the Playground on what might be a reasonable DC for any of these items?

[The Grue]

You could port Pathfinder's firearms system over pretty easily. You said you looked over Pathfinder and found nothing; did you miss the Gunsmithing feat?


Crafting Ammunition: You can craft bullets, pellets, and black powder for a cost in raw materials equal to 10% of the price. If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the cartridge. At your GM’s discretion, you can craft metal cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the cost of the cartridge. Crafting bullets, black powder, or cartridges takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of ammunition (minimum 1 day).

Also, page 101 of Ultimate Combat has a table listing craft DCs for various firearms. I don't know if it's in the SRD though.

[Vedhin]

The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting has the answer. Page 97, in the second paragraph of "Mundane Weapons", the DC for smokepowder is listed as Craft (Alchemy) 25.

[Gavinfoxx]

Depending on the setting, the traditional recipe for gunpowder flat out will canonically NOT WORK, and the setting might have a local equivalent... which may or may not require:

1.) A spellcaster to craft it (see craft alchemy)
2.) A spell in the creation of it
3.) A spellcaster's crafting feat (like craft wondrous item)

[Darrin]

The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting has the answer. Page 97, in the second paragraph of "Mundane Weapons", the DC for smokepowder is listed as Craft (Alchemy) 25.

Smokepowder isn't the same thing as gunpowder:

"Firearms exist in Faerun, but use smokepowder instead of gunpowder. They are especially common in the island nation of Lantan and among the rock gnomes, but are available throughout Faerun for those who can afford them. Refer to Renaissance Weapons in Chapter 6 of the Dungeon Master's Guide. Smokepowder is a magical alchemical substance, and therefore does not work in an antimagic field or dead magic area."

Smokepowder requires Craft Wondrous Item and 9 ranks in Craft: Alchemy.

Based on the chart in the PHB... I'd say gunpowder should be about the same as creating alchemist's fire or a tindertwig, so DC 20. However, since it's not as widely known or available in the default D&D setting, I could understand bringing the DC up to 25, same as smokepowder.

If smokepowder and gunpowder have the same price and the same craft DC, then that begs the question, why would you craft one over the other? Well, smokepowder requires a feat, and gunpowder doesn't. Other than that, the only major difference seems to be that gunpowder can be used in an AMF/dead magic zone, but won't fire if it's wet. Smokepowder is the opposite: won't burn in an AMF/dead magic zone, but should still work if it gets wet.

[Yogibear41]

Hmmmm makes me wonder, the world I play in currently does not have gunpowder, wonder if I could swing this on an alchemy based character. (have had encounters with people from another plane who had rifles so I know its not that far fetched of a chance) but then again, even if I could swing making this, how would my character know to make a gun out of it, after all it was a rather long time between the invention of gunpowder and their application to weapon use.

Granted with a standard action to reload every time its probably not even worth investing in it, unless maybe I mass produced it and handed them out to a group of 1st level warrior/experts.

[sabelo2000]

You could port Pathfinder's firearms system over pretty easily. You said you looked over Pathfinder and found nothing; did you miss the Gunsmithing feat?



Also, page 101 of Ultimate Combat has a table listing craft DCs for various firearms. I don't know if it's in the SRD though.

We did see this feat, although it doesn't list the Craft DC to create these things. Or, is it assumed that at the cost of a feat, you an create these automatically? It's not specified. Also, the Master Key is intended to be secondary so I don't want to waste a feat.

And, the SRD does not provide the chart you refer to.

[The Grue]

Well, flip to page 101 of Ultimate Combat then. :smalltongue:

If you can't find DCs for ammunition(you're correct in that the feat assumes you automatically succeed, but it's not detailed how you craft ammunition if you don't have the feat), it seems reasonable to me that crafting gunpowder would be about the same DC as crafting a firearm. Probably a little less. Anyway, that table gives you a starting point.

[Tvtyrant]

For my campaign I made alchemical "dragon eggs" which are spheres which explode violently when their skin is broken. As a result they are useless for handguns but are used for grenades, smoke bombs and artillery.

[NevinPL]

Dragon #321 has a lot of stuff with gunpowder, maybe it has some DC's.