Starting 4E - Drow Sorcerer - help needed

[Ssin]

Ok I guess I can retype the whole thing since I got logged out when pressing create new thread and now everything is gone -.-

Anyways, I am starting a 4E campaign coming Sunday and need some help, I am new to 4E so excuse any ignorance I may display :p

I'll be playing a Drow Sorcerer - Wild Magic - lvl 11

The image I have in my head is a sneaky dual dagger wielding Drow sorcerer (though the plan is to never use those daggers in actual melee, my AC sucks and I will try to avoid melee at all cost)
I really love the sorcerer - wild magic so that's non negotiable (as is Drow :P)

I used the Wizards Character builder to get to the following please advise / improve where possible :)

We did the traditional 4d6 drop lowest rolling for stats in case you're wondering why they don't line up with point buy ;-)

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Da'lan, level 11
Drow, Sorcerer, Wild Mage
Spell Source Option: Wild Magic
Darkfire Option: Darkfire Charisma

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 15, DEX 21, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 20

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 14, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 13, CHA 17


AC: 20 Fort: 17 Ref: 20 Will: 22
HP: 77 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +11, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, History +11, Perception +12, Stealth +17

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Athletics +5, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +7, Heal +7, Insight +7, Intimidate +12, Nature +7, Religion +6, Streetwise +10, Thievery +10

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Drow Racial Power: Darkfire
Sorcerer Attack 1: Chaos Bolt
Sorcerer Attack 1: Acid Orb
Sorcerer Attack 1: Bedeviling Burst
Sorcerer Attack 1: Dazzling Ray
Sorcerer Utility 2: Good Timing
Sorcerer Attack 3: Essence Prism
Sorcerer Attack 5: Everywhere and Nowhere
Sorcerer Utility 6: Swift Escape
Sorcerer Attack 7: Chaos Ray
Sorcerer Attack 9: Contagious Curse
History Utility 10: Lessons of History
Wild Mage Attack 11: Tempest Surge

FEATS
Level 1: Cutthroat
Level 2: Skill Training (Perception)
Level 4: Implement Focus (Dagger)
Level 6: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 8: Distracting Coincidences
Level 10: Focusing Spellfury
Level 11: Sorcerous Reserves

ITEMS

====== End ======

-edit- I completely forgot items, I am allowed to choose a lvl 10, 11 & 12 item and get to spend 5000gp (+1 free adventure kit) if you know anything cool? let me know.

Also there is no specific setting basically anything official (character generator) is allowed but preferable nothing too Dark Sun / Forgotten Realms specific

[Tegu8788]

How did you start off with a Dex lower than your Cha but end up with it higher?

[Epinephrine]

How did you start off with a Dex lower than your Cha but end up with it higher?

Guess didn't select the second racial stat bonus? The Dex 21 makes sense (16+2 racial, plus increases at 4, 8, 11), the Cha 20 is wrong.

[Airk]

Never, EVER take skill training unless you ABSOLUTELY half to.

Either find a background that gives it to you (I'm sure there are plenty) or multiclass for it instead. Monk or Bard might be interesting MC feats that give you an in on perception. It's probably better to do it via background, if you can, because then you can expend that feat slot on War Wizard's Expertise or something similar (Expertise feats are practically required. If for some reason you don't find any other way to fit this in, drop Implement Focus for it.)

[Ssin]

I see now Cha is incorrect, should be 22, I'll check that in the builder right away


I'm looking into backgrounds as we speak, shall search for 1 that gives perception then.

Cutthroat is a good feat for stealth + bluff for diversion and then stealth away right?

[Ssin]

Updated sheet:

I missed a checkbox for Cha which now sets it correctly to 22.
Found a background (a fitting drow one even) for perception (I dropped diplomacy) so now 1 feat slot free

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Da'lan, level 11
Drow, Sorcerer, Wild Mage
Spell Source Option: Wild Magic
Darkfire Option: Darkfire Charisma
Underwild (Perception class skill)
Theme: Chaosmade

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 15, DEX 21, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 22

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 14, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 13, CHA 17


AC: 20 Fort: 17 Ref: 20 Will: 23
HP: 77 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +13, Bluff +16, History +11, Perception +12, Stealth +17

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Athletics +5, Diplomacy +11, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +9, Heal +7, Insight +7, Intimidate +13, Nature +7, Religion +6, Streetwise +11, Thievery +10

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Chaosmade Utility: Seed of Chaos
Drow Racial Power: Darkfire
Sorcerer Attack 1: Chaos Bolt
Sorcerer Attack 1: Acid Orb
Sorcerer Attack 1: Bedeviling Burst
Sorcerer Attack 1: Dazzling Ray
Sorcerer Utility 2: Good Timing
Sorcerer Attack 3: Essence Prism
Sorcerer Attack 5: Everywhere and Nowhere
Sorcerer Utility 6: Swift Escape
Sorcerer Attack 7: Chaos Ray
Sorcerer Attack 9: Contagious Curse
History Utility 10: Lessons of History
Wild Mage Attack 11: Tempest Surge

FEATS
Level 1: Cutthroat
Level 2: Free !
Level 4: Implement Focus (Dagger)
Level 6: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 8: Distracting Coincidences
Level 10: Focusing Spellfury
Level 11: Sorcerous Reserves

ITEMS

====== End ======

[Kurald Galain]

Dual Implement Spellcaster is only worth it if you have two +3 implements or better.

Sorcerous Reserves is not very good.

The best implement is a Staff of Ruin although you'd have to multiclass to be able to use it.

[Ssin]

why would I need to multiclass for staff? I could just swap my implement choise? but I prefer the dagger look anyways, more fitting to the character I have in mind.

What's not good about dual weapon without +3 weapons and sorcerous reserves? any sugestions to swap em with?

[Kurald Galain]

why would I need to multiclass for staff?

Whoops, I was thinking of warlocks. Yes, sorcerers are already proficient with staffs, and staffs are simply a more effective choice than daggers. Aside from that, its expertise feat is also better.

[Tegu8788]

Getting the bonus from two daggers is good, yes, but until you have a pair of solid items, the benefit that it gives are often not as good as other options. Double dagger is a good trick, just not quite yet.

[Airk]

Getting the bonus from two daggers is good, yes, but until you have a pair of solid items, the benefit that it gives are often not as good as other options. Double dagger is a good trick, just not quite yet.

What other options are you people suggesting? I see a lot of "Don't take this feat there are better options" and zero suggestions for better options.

There aren't actually that many really strong sorcerer feats. Certainly, there are basically none that compete directly with Dual Implement Spellcasting. And he's in the range where he can easily get a +2 implement for his off hand.

[Ssin]

a few hours of reading later I decided to switch to Luckbender (seemed more fitting since I had the lower lvl powers from it aswell) and came to this (including equipment) this'll have to be what I'm gonna start with I think.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Da'Zlahn, level 11
Drow, Sorcerer, Luckbender
Spell Source Option: Wild Magic
Darkfire Option: Darkfire Charisma
Underwild (Perception class skill)
Theme: Chaosmade

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 15, DEX 21, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 22

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 14, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 13, CHA 17


AC: 22 Fort: 17 Ref: 20 Will: 23
HP: 77 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +13, Bluff +16, History +11, Perception +12, Stealth +19

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Athletics +5, Diplomacy +11, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +9, Heal +7, Insight +7, Intimidate +13, Nature +7, Religion +6, Streetwise +11, Thievery +10

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Chaosmade Utility: Seed of Chaos
Drow Racial Power: Darkfire
Drow Racial Power: Cloud of Darkness
Sorcerer Attack 1: Chaos Bolt
Sorcerer Attack 1: Acid Orb
Sorcerer Attack 1: Bedeviling Burst
Sorcerer Attack 1: Dazzling Ray
Sorcerer Utility 2: Good Timing
Sorcerer Attack 3: Essence Prism
Sorcerer Attack 5: Everywhere and Nowhere
Sorcerer Utility 6: Swift Escape
Sorcerer Attack 7: Chaos Ray
Sorcerer Attack 9: Contagious Curse
History Utility 10: Lessons of History
Luckbender Attack 11: Fortunate Turn of Events

FEATS
Level 1: Cutthroat
Level 2: Arcane Spellfury
Level 4: Implement Focus (Dagger)
Level 6: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 8: Distracting Coincidences
Level 10: Focusing Spellfury
Level 11: Master of Fire and Darkness

ITEMS
Gloaming Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2 x1
Wild Flare Dagger Dagger +3 x1
Tooth of Chaos Dagger +2 x1
Adventurer's Kit
Sehanine's Mark of the Dark Moon (level 8)
Bracers of Mental Might x1
====== End ======

[masteraleph]

Initial Stuff

1) I'd suggest either Demonskin Adept (which lets you pick your resistance type, has an extremely powerful AP feature and level 11 attack, as well as at level 16 with the right equipment) or Arcane Wellspring (not quite as strong, but can get very strong at 16 with the right feats). Luckbender is decent, but not as good as either.

2) Not a huge fan of Chaosmade. If you want a bit of the same flavor but an extra +2 to damage all the time, look at Primordial Adept. Alternatively, Beguiler is flavorful, and note when I mention it in the Powers section below.

Abilities, Items, and Skills:

3) Abilities look fine. You have plenty of choices and directions you can go for an eventual multiclass.

4) Any reason for History? It's not bad, and could be flavorful, but I'd prefer another dialogue skill or Insight (for a level 16 skill power, though you don't need it now). Also fits with a Rogue who should know something about the world.

Powers:

5) Not a fan of Good Timing. You're a Wild Sorcerer and have Bedeviling Burst- grab Focused Chaos.

6) Your level 3 power should be Flame Spiral. This is true of every sorcerer ever made. It's an amazing power and is everything you could want from a power. Note also the theme Beguiler- Standard Flame Spiral, minor Beguiler attack for an extra damage instance as they enter a square adjacent to you. The damage it does is more than worth having enemies adjacent to you for a turn or so.

7) Everywhere and Nowhere is ok and thematic. I definitely prefer Slaad's Gambit though- Now I'm here, now I'm not, now I'm attacking you instead.

8) Swift Escape is decent. If one of your allies is an Avenger, consider Chaos Wager for stupidly high damage.

9) Chaos Ray is pretty terrible. If you want something with "Chaos" in the title, use Chaos Burst, which is similar but hits more enemies if you go early (and being Dex focused, you should). Spark Form is a fun "hey look, I'm darting through you" power.

10) Maiden's Waking is a ridiculously awesome U10.

Feats:

11) You desperately, desperately need an Expertise feat- it is far better than any of the damage feats you have right now, and possibly better than anything. War Wizard's Expertise is probably the best- gives you a nice out if you decide to pick up an unfriendly area power, like Chaos Burst.

12) Cutthroat is OK, if you really feel you need it. But as a striker, your job is really to smack the living daylights out of things. I'd prefer something like Unarmored Agility for a +2 to AC, if you wanted it, but I do get the flavor.

13) I'd skip Arcane Spellfury- you want to drop your most powerful powers on the enemy first, so you won't be getting to it until later in the encounter, when you're mopping up anyways.

14) If you decide to go for an elemental weapon (and you probably should), switch out of IF (Dagger) for one of the Elemental damage bonus feats.

15) As others are saying, DIS is borderline here- it's no better than IF, for instance, at this point.

16) How often are you sliding? Dump Distracting Coincidences.

17) Again- you're not using At-Wills until round 4 or so. Dump the Spellfury feats.

18) Unless you're really desperate for Darkfire, skip MoFaD, too. And Darkfire's pretty bad.

19) Replacement feats for stuff: Superior Will (more for the beginning of turn save), Improved Defenses, Expertise feat. Maybe a Superior Implement feat if you want one (Accurate, unless you decide to switch to Fire or Lightning damage).

Items:

20) You have no neck item??? You do realize that neck items are what adds to your non-armor defenses, right? You should have at least a +2 one, here.

21) Instead of the Gloaming Armor, I'd go Shimmering to prevent Opportunity Attacks. But I'd also grab Gloaming Shroud +2, for that neck item, to replace the effect. At higher levels, grab an Assassin's Cloak instead.

22) I'd skip Wild Flare and go with one of the element specific daggers. Or possibly Rebounding Weapon. Fun fact- did you know your Acid Orb is a Ranged Basic Attack and can be used with this dagger's power?

23) Not sure that you can afford it at this point, but if you do dump Gloaming Armor, and you actually have your choice of Rares, try and get a Weapon of Speed for the off hand. It might have to stay a tier behind, but again, Acid Orb is then a minor action once per Encounter- fun, right?

24) Again, affordability will be a problem- but at some point, if you can buy Uncommons (this varies by DM), look at picking up an Elven Chain Shirt to help with the AC. Possibly a Diamond Cincture at some point, though in upper Paragon Belt of the Witch King will come into play.

[Ssin]

wow talk about extensive feedback thanks :D

I'll take a look at the things suggested and will revert with a final (hopefully :P) build tonight.

[masteraleph]

*Should've noted- Primordial Adept's damage is damage type specific, but there's enough leeway there to get it on many of your powers, and all if you do use a damage converter.

[Ssin]

I did some work on my defense (chance related of course :p) but remained with the sorcerer - wild magic - luckbender to also stick to the image I have in my head, also the reason why I went for Historoy instead of Insight. Added some items and will plead with my DM for a neck item but I'm kinda over budget already :p (200 gp so...)

anyways this'll be it

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Da'Zlahn, level 11
Drow, Sorcerer, Luckbender
Spell Source Option: Wild Magic
Darkfire Option: Darkfire Charisma
Parentage - Noble (Perception class skill)
Theme: Chaosmade

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 15, DEX 21, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 22

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 14, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 13, CHA 17


AC: 22 Fort: 19 Ref: 22 Will: 25
HP: 77 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +13, Bluff +16, History +11, Perception +12, Stealth +19

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Athletics +5, Diplomacy +11, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +9, Heal +7, Insight +7, Intimidate +13, Nature +7, Religion +6, Streetwise +11, Thievery +10

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Chaosmade Utility: Seed of Chaos
Drow Racial Power: Cloud of Darkness
Drow Racial Power: Darkfire
Sorcerer Attack 1: Chaos Bolt
Sorcerer Attack 1: Acid Orb
Sorcerer Attack 1: Bedeviling Burst
Sorcerer Attack 1: Dazzling Ray
Bluff Utility 2: False Bravado
Sorcerer Attack 3: Flame Spiral
Sorcerer Attack 5: Everywhere and Nowhere
Arcana Utility 6: Insightful Warning
Sorcerer Attack 7: One Blow, One Echo
Sorcerer Attack 9: Contagious Curse
Sorcerer Utility 10: Elemental Warding
Luckbender Attack 11: Fortunate Turn of Events

FEATS
Level 1: Cutthroat
Level 2: Implement Focus (Dagger)
Level 4: War Wizard's Expertise
Level 6: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 8: Stoneroot's Endurance
Level 10: Improved Defenses
Level 11: Master of Fire and Darkness

ITEMS
Gloaming Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2 x1
Wild Flare Dagger Dagger +3 x1
Tooth of Chaos Dagger +2 x1
Adventurer's Kit
Sehanine's Mark of the Dark Moon (level 8)
Helm of Seven Deaths
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds
Potion of Regeneration (heroic tier)
Potion of Healing
====== End ======