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Tor the Fallen
2007-02-16, 08:59 AM
Is it just me, or is ctrlaltdel an insipid rip-off of PA?

Khantalas
2007-02-16, 09:04 AM
It may be, but I like it more than PA. For unknown reasons.

Look, a three headed wookiee!

*runs*

Lord Sidereal
2007-02-16, 09:29 AM
I like it, but i've found, as of late, there is less hilairty than usual (besides todays comic) and after the WoW thing broke I stopped reading the newsposts.

Jayabalard
2007-02-16, 09:50 AM
it's just you.

While they have some superficial similarities, and both can have one shot comics about specific game issues, CAD generally is continued story arcs.

both good comics though.

ObiwanNekody
2007-02-16, 10:06 AM
I second jayabalard.

And I add that CAD did make fun of itself for this when it opened. Read the first comic.

CAD also is more about the character development than just the games, which seems to be more of what PA focuses on.

Having said this, I don't read either much, but I did read through the entire archives of CAD, while I have only dabbled in PA. The lack of linear structure makes it difficult to hold my attention.

…CAD also has a Linux user…

ElfLad
2007-02-16, 11:37 AM
CAD also is more about the character development than just the games, which seems to be more of what PA focuses on.

Maybe if CAD actually developed the characters, that would be worth something. Ethan is a simple, "I like videogames" stereotype, Lilah has no depth beyond "girl. Who also plays games!" and Lucas is "sarcastic friend."

The characters have no depth, and Buckley is just incapable of writing a good punchline without dragging it out to the point where it just isn't funny anymore.

Tor the Fallen
2007-02-16, 02:57 PM
Maybe if CAD actually developed the characters, that would be worth something. Ethan is a simple, "I like videogames" stereotype, Lilah has no depth beyond "girl. Who also plays games!" and Lucas is "sarcastic friend."

The characters have no depth, and Buckley is just incapable of writing a good punchline without dragging it out to the point where it just isn't funny anymore.

Precisely.
[Scrubbed]
And it's not just CAD that does this. All the big webcomics do, to some degree. It's just that CAD does it so poorly.

Whatever. To each his own, I guess. Even if it stinks. :smallwink:

Khantalas
2007-02-16, 03:20 PM
Of course, [email protected]$, IMHO, is much better than both, because it even parodies video game related webcomic genre, while being one itself.

North
2007-02-17, 05:01 PM
Precisely.
It's like the readers of CAD either
a) have never read anything else, ever, and thus do not realize the brain numbing triteness of the character 'development' and 'story arc'. (Notice how I used quotation marks? It means I was being sarcastinc! HaHA!)
b) happen to like humor intended for those with negative intelligence modifiers
c) are gamers, and thus qualify for both a&b, and also kill kittens just for fun (I kid, I kid, you frag tagging sons of beetches! :smallfurious: )

I'm sure there are some really great CAD readers out there that go to Berkley or work for Donald Trump, or perhaps are saving orphans, but I haven't met one yet. Not to attack the readership, no no, I just really can't understand how such a stunningly mediocre webcomic can have so many fans. Or at least such a large readership.

Every character in CAD has a PA equivalent. And it's not like CAD's mocking the "two roommates, a sentient game system, a pet, and some dude that likes and alternate OS." It's like a template for making webcomics. Take two dudes. One's crazy, the others sarcastic. Add a talking robot. Off hand comments about video games panel one, girl troubles panel two, violence panel three, sarcastic comment panel four. One may shuffle these four panels any way you wish, as your reader won't notice, anyway.

And it's not just CAD that does this. All the big webcomics do, to some degree. It's just that CAD does it so poorly.

Whatever. To each his own, I guess. Even if it stinks. :smallwink:

Wow,

I like Ctrl Alt Del. Quite a bit actually.

No its not the only webcomic Ive read. I found it after reading all of the PA archives. I also read OOTS, Erfworld, Funnyfarmcomics, Fanboys, pvponline, misfile,goblins, dungeoncrawlinc, duelinganalogs, 8bittheatre, and more. I say this to contradict your 1st statement where you said that CAD fans dont ever read anything ever. And dont worry I read books and lots of other stuff as well :)

I hope I dont have any negative intelligence modifiers but me not smrt as me wnt can be alll thar tyme.

And I do like CAD more then PA. I like story lines, and changing dynamics. CAD doesnt have character development almost no webcomic has that. What they do have is character progression. Things will change. Ethans engaged now for one.

I do agree with your assessment about how lots of webcomics share the same base elements but strongly disagree that they do it poorly.

North
2007-02-17, 05:44 PM
I geuss the double post proves my smartness ooops :D

The Orange Zergling
2007-02-17, 06:26 PM
This comic makes me want to puke, as of late. At first I hated it, then it was okay, and now I'm back to hating it. I dont think it's ever made me laugh out loud, unlike some other comics.
The characters are 1 dimensional, and the running gags are old and tired. Chef Brian makes no sense whatsoever, and is not funny in any way. The plots are boring, and the gag-a-day strips are too.

Also, one of my online friends is addicted to CAD like crack. No, worse than crack. He's literally to the point of "if I didnt do it or it's not a CAD strip it's not funny."
...
That helped influence whether or not I liked this comic in the long run, I'd say.

LurkerInPlayground
2007-02-19, 03:01 PM
Buckley's art never actually seems to improve either.

Yuki Akuma
2007-02-19, 03:35 PM
Buckley's art never actually seems to improve either.

I beg to differ.

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20021023

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070219

Can you honestly tell me that isn't improvement?

Reinforcements
2007-02-19, 05:23 PM
Maybe if CAD actually developed the characters, that would be worth something. Ethan is a simple, "I like videogames" stereotype, Lilah has no depth beyond "girl. Who also plays games!" and Lucas is "sarcastic friend."

The characters have no depth, and Buckley is just incapable of writing a good punchline without dragging it out to the point where it just isn't funny anymore.
Agreed. Also, I'm ashamed to admit it, but I can't help but think that Buckley is in the pay of SOE sometimes. This is probably both paranoid and profoundly insulting, but it really seems that way. :shrug:

Krellen
2007-02-19, 05:48 PM
Funny, I don't really see what's so great about PA.

LurkerInPlayground
2007-02-19, 06:43 PM
I beg to differ.

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20021023

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070219

Can you honestly tell me that isn't improvement?

So he went from sucking...to sucking somewhat less? Sorry, but the guy's art just feels *off* to me. After Buckley got past the steepest portion of his learning curve he's essentially never evolved his style any further.

I may have an unqualified impression of this, but he also has a forum community that isn't really anal about actually *getting better* at art. You get a pat on your back for anything you present. Go to PA for art advice with just any old thing you slapped together and you get beat into the ground for wasting their time. They don't praise your macaroni art or for copping an anime drawing of poor quality.

Frankly I prefer the latter community over the former for just this reason.

Daedrous Avari
2007-02-20, 05:00 PM
Funny, I don't really see what's so great about PA.

Here's one! PA is funny.
And look! Another one! PA is pretty damn original.

Krellen
2007-02-20, 06:00 PM
Here's one! PA is funny.
Not really. PA is vulgar. Vulgar <> Funny.

It has moments, yes. But so does drying paint.

And look! Another one! PA is pretty damn original.
Compared to what? Even if it was the first "two guys rant about games" comic, it's no longer original, with thousands of clones. It follows new releases fairly regularly, and only says what everyone's already thinking to begin with.

Khantalas
2007-02-20, 06:08 PM
I agree that not everyone may find PA funny. It makes me laugh occasionally (or at least so far, since I'm still reading the archives), but I don't think it's that great.

However, it is original. It isn't the clone of anything, being the first of its genre. Just because there are lots of humans now doesn't mean the first human was not original.

Tor the Fallen
2007-02-20, 06:40 PM
Tycho's a far better writer than Buckley can ever hope to be.

As for 'there are worse comics', yeah, sure there were worse comics. Just like Pol Pot wasn't that bad of a despot, when compared to Stalin.

Tor the Fallen
2007-02-20, 06:41 PM
I agree that not everyone may find PA funny. It makes me laugh occasionally (or at least so far, since I'm still reading the archives), but I don't think it's that great.

However, it is original. It isn't the clone of anything, being the first of its genre. Just because there are lots of humans now doesn't mean the first human was not original.

A lot of the humor is quite topical- relevant to a particular event of the time.

And while character driven humor has much greater staying power, and arguably greater comedic value, than the crap Letterman and Leno do, one needs characters to make the funny.

And Buckely couldn't write his way out of an appropriate metaphor. His characters stink. His slapstick sucks. His story arcs are unimaginative. I am unattached and uninterested in the characters. If you're going to tell a story, tell a good story. Or at least have good actors to tell it for you.

I've been reading CAD for two (three?) years now, and I've laughed a couple times. A couple times.

Goblins updates about .75 times a week. It's about goblins in a make fantasy setting based on D&D where they are aware of the mechanics of their existence. Yet I find far more connection with goblins' dilemmas than I do with Buckley's creations. Perhaps that's an unfair comparison. Clearly Buckley isn;t cut out for creating such pathos (in comic form, anyway ;)). If he was, he wouldn't be copying PA, Little Gamers, or PvP. I wouldn't be complaining on the internets about how crap his art is.

PvP- way better than CAD. I mean, PvP has everything CAD wants, and so much more. Like actual character development. Characters that are passable as real people. Not static, unchanging entities, constantly recycled for Buckley's tired, hackneyed gags.

If his characters were alive, they'd hate Buckley. I imagine it'd be something like that bunny that gets slaughtered for the reader's amusement in the beginning of JtHM comics.

Khantalas
2007-02-20, 06:47 PM
Nah, I laughed at User Friendly archives at 2005. I should be able to laugh at PA, since I'm more familiar with games than I'm with internet companies or Linux.

J_Muller
2007-02-20, 07:32 PM
Is it just me, or is ctrlaltdel an insipid rip-off of PA?

No... what hat did you pull this rabbit out of exactly?

arnoldrew
2007-02-20, 10:45 PM
I like it, but i've found, as of late, there is less hilairty than usual (besides todays comic) and after the WoW thing broke I stopped reading the newsposts.

What WoW thing? 'Splain. Please.

Turcano
2007-02-20, 10:54 PM
I agree that not everyone may find PA funny. It makes me laugh occasionally (or at least so far, since I'm still reading the archives), but I don't think it's that great.

However, it is original. It isn't the clone of anything, being the first of its genre. Just because there are lots of humans now doesn't mean the first human was not original.

Just out of curiosity, how far into the archives are you? For me at least, PA didn't kick into high gear until about late '02 to early '03.

That brings up an interesting anecdote. About a year ago, I did an archive trawl of PA and discovered that all of what I thought were my favorite CAD comics were actually PA comics. Its both funny how your mind can play tricks on you and a good indicator of just how anodyne CAD is.

Om
2007-02-21, 09:37 AM
CAD isn't just a rip off of PA. Its an amalgamation of PA and PvP. From the latter it takes the idea of personal development. The problem is that, as has been noted, there is no development in CAD. Ethan is the exact same idiot as he was three years ago. No change. This pretty much defeats the purpose of a comic about gamers' daily lives. The problem for Buckley however is that returning to the source material, the games themselves, brings him onto PA's "turf"... where the difference in class is glaring.


What WoW thing? 'Splain. Please.I suspect its a reference to the time when Buckley threw a hissy fit and shut down the CAD WoW guild simply because it had continued to function after he stopped playing.

blackout
2007-02-21, 11:01 AM
CAD is a decent comic. I have, personally, never read Penny Arcade. I have read PvP as well. I only started reading very recently, but I've gone through the entire CAD archive. Not the best, mainly because nothing CAN be the best, but it was good.

Khantalas
2007-02-21, 12:48 PM
Just out of curiosity, how far into the archives are you? For me at least, PA didn't kick into high gear until about late '02 to early '03.

I am halfway down the '02 archives.

Tor the Fallen
2007-02-21, 01:29 PM
CAD is a decent comic. I have, personally, never read Penny Arcade. I have read PvP as well. I only started reading very recently, but I've gone through the entire CAD archive. Not the best, mainly because nothing CAN be the best, but it was good.

Scott Kurt (of PvP) was much funnier years ago. Some of the stuff in his archive is really, really good.

J_Muller
2007-02-21, 06:16 PM
Scott Kurt (of PvP) was much funnier years ago. Some of the stuff in his archive is really, really good.

Yeah, it's gotten less funny lately, and more like a soap-opera print comic (like "For Better or For Worse" if anyone gets that in their local paper). Also, Kurtz is kind of an a*****e (CRN, anyone?).

Accalia
2007-02-22, 09:46 AM
Precisely.
I'm sure there are some really great CAD readers out there that go to Berkley or work for Donald Trump, or perhaps are saving orphans, but I haven't met one yet. Not to attack the readership, no no, I just really can't understand how such a stunningly mediocre webcomic can have so many fans. Or at least such a large readership.

Not sure what PA is...but if people want to rec some good webcomics...then I'm all ears.

I'm quite fond of CAD. It has, on occasion made me laugh out loud and I have reccomended it to friends of mine (who are still my friends)!

I am also, I do not mind mentioning, rather intelligent...I have a BSc in Engineering Geology.

I have also (what's with all the alsos? Geez get a thesaurus!) just realised how pretentious I sound...and am therefore expecting flames any second now.

Reinforcements
2007-02-22, 11:15 AM
Not sure what PA is...but if people want to rec some good webcomics...then I'm all ears.

I'm quite fond of CAD. It has, on occasion made me laugh out loud and I have reccomended it to friends of mine (who are still my friends)!

I am also, I do not mind mentioning, rather intelligent...I have a BSc in Engineering Geology.

I have also (what's with all the alsos? Geez get a thesaurus!) just realised how pretentious I sound...and am therefore expecting flames any second now.
May you burn forever in a thousand hells for your pretentiousness, Accalia! Mwa ha ha!

*cough* Anyway, some webcomics that I've found recently include

Dinosaur Comics (http://www.qwantz.com), which is slowly battling its way through my heart to the position of Favorite Webcomic. The art is not so much, but let's just say it won this year's Outstanding Writing award (in the Web Cartoonist Choice Awards) for a reason.

Dresden Codak (http://www.dresdencodak.com), on the other hand, has extremely good art and highly intelligent wit. Its only flaw is that there aren't many comics yet and updates are slow.

Cosmobear (http://www.cosmobear.cycomics.com/), a comic by the artist of Rob and Elliot (http://www.robandelliot.cycomics.com/), is about a soviet cosmonaut who's been turned into a bear. I shouldn't really need to say anything else.

[edit] - By the way, PA is Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com), one of the original gaming comics and about one million times better than Ctrl-Alt-Del.

Accalia
2007-02-22, 11:19 AM
Dinosaur Comics (http://www.qwantz.com), which is slowly battling its way through my heart to the position of Favorite Webcomic. The art is not so much, but let's just say it won this year's Outstanding Writing award (in the Web Cartoonist Choice Awards) for a reason.

There's a comic about Dinosaurs and I didn't know?

My inner Palaeontologist is now jumping up and down like a 5-year-old.

Thank you!

Tor the Fallen
2007-02-23, 11:44 AM
Engineering Geology? What is that, making rocks?:smallbiggrin:

Accalia
2007-03-01, 05:25 AM
Engineering Geology? What is that, making rocks?:smallbiggrin:

:D

It's making sure that when someone wants to engineer something on TOP OF rocks that we say "that rock's fine build it there." or "What are you crazy? That's going to fall down in 5 minutes!"

This educational exerpt was brought to you by Hannah, normal programming will now resume.

Oh, and I read about 10 bits of Penny Arcade...and I've got to say it. Not at all funny.

kelsith.135
2007-03-01, 07:39 AM
to start off I'm a reader of both Penny Arcade and Ctrl + Alt + Del so I'm not against either of them but I do have a few points

1. I don't care what you say Ctrl + Alt + Del is funny GODDAMMIT.

2. If your calling Ctrl + Alt + Del and all other gaming comics a ripoff of penny arcade you are SERIOUSLY mistakin. there WERE gaming comics before penny arcade, some on websites other not, but they were there, they werent as big or good but they were there so yeah Penny Arcade was NOT the first gaming comic

3. sometimes people enjoy just kinda stupid video game humor, i mean thats what ethan IS, just funny.

4. TIM BUCKLY IS A FRIGGIN GREAT ARTIST

5. Its not a metiorker comic, it started out as a small project he would run for a month, until he found out it was popular and he seriously got into it.

6. why do you guys have to go in a tell people you think comic strips they like are stupid, i mean seriously if we dident like OOTS but we liked erfwourld we wouldent come in here and start flamming OOTS.

7. Penny arcade and Ctrl + Alt + Del are almost two different genras (almost)

8. The character progression is very very good in Ctrl + Alt + Del, ethan goes from bieng a tard, to a tard marrying lilah.

and finnaly 9. the storylines are friggin GREAT. I mean i loved the arc were lucas was going to get killed by his girl friend, and me and my friends acctually CELLIBRATED winter-een-mas this year (yes we have no lives)

kelsith.135
2007-03-01, 07:44 AM
:D

It's making sure that when someone wants to engineer something on TOP OF rocks that we say "that rock's fine build it there." or "What are you crazy? That's going to fall down in 5 minutes!"

This educational exerpt was brought to you by Hannah, normal programming will now resume.

Oh, and I read about 10 bits of Penny Arcade...and I've got to say it. Not at all funny.

if you read the first ones thats why, because the art work and funniness dont really improve till there about third year or so, if you read the new ones then
you burn in eternal missery (just kidding)

Khantalas
2007-03-01, 08:38 AM
1. I don't care what you say Ctrl + Alt + Del is funny GODDAMMIT.

2. If your calling Ctrl + Alt + Del and all other gaming comics a ripoff of penny arcade you are SERIOUSLY mistakin. there WERE gaming comics before penny arcade, some on websites other not, but they were there, they werent as big or good but they were there so yeah Penny Arcade was NOT the first gaming comic

3. sometimes people enjoy just kinda stupid video game humor, i mean thats what ethan IS, just funny.

4. TIM BUCKLY IS A FRIGGIN GREAT ARTIST

...

7. Penny arcade and Ctrl + Alt + Del are almost two different genras (almost)

8. The character progression is very very good in Ctrl + Alt + Del, ethan goes from bieng a tard, to a tard marrying lilah.

and finnaly 9. the storylines are friggin GREAT. I mean i loved the arc were lucas was going to get killed by his girl friend, and me and my friends acctually CELLIBRATED winter-een-mas this year (yes we have no lives)

Except for 1 and 3, despite the fact that I like CAD, I must disagree. Even if it's not a ripoff of PA per se, it is very similar. They are not different genres, the greatest differences between the comics are that CAD has a straight man and can work on a story for more than two strips. And, yes, Ethan goes from being a tard to an engage tard - I don't see what's so very, very good about that.

RationalGoblin
2007-03-01, 09:46 AM
I agree with kelsith, I've read the entire PA archives and the entire ctrl alt del archives, and I laughed at PA maybe five times.

I laughed continually throughout my reading of the ctrl alt del archives.

Also, no character development? Hahaha stop making me laugh. /sarcasm.

Ethan has gone from being a video game obessed lunatic, to a just lunatic who's protective of Lilah.

I'd say that's more development then PA, where I haven't seen any at all.

I'll agree that it's similar to PA, but it's certainly not a clone of it. (Maybe at first, but now.. not even close.)

I'll also agree that the art is eh.



Oh, and Tor, I've read Goblins. I find it great, better then ctrl alt del, and sometimes it makes me laugh continually, many other times it's made me attached to the characters, (except Minmax) but the continual (spelled right?) laughs are rare, and I find ctrl alt del funnier, but not better then Goblins.

Om
2007-03-01, 12:16 PM
2. If your calling Ctrl + Alt + Del and all other gaming comics a ripoff of penny arcade you are SERIOUSLY mistakin. there WERE gaming comics before penny arcade, some on websites other not, but they were there, they werent as big or good but they were there so yeah Penny Arcade was NOT the first gaming comicTwo obessed gamers (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1998/11/18) talking about computer games (http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20021023)... what a fresh breath of air Buckley is. PA set the template for gamer comics. CAD itself acknowledges, in that first comic, that by 2002 this had become cliché.


3. sometimes people enjoy just kinda stupid video game humor, i mean thats what ethan IS, just funny.If you enjoy it then good for you. I certainly wouldn't agree that Ethan is funny however... not when the joke has been stretched across five years.


4. TIM BUCKLY IS A FRIGGIN GREAT ARTISTThis I will very much take exception to. What measure are you using to define "great"? I can accept that he is no Michelangelo but Buckley cannot hold a candle to, for example, Gabe or Jami. CAD's art has not significantly improved since mid-late 2003 and his use of cut and paste art does not impress.


6. why do you guys have to go in a tell people you think comic strips they like are stupid, i mean seriously if we dident like OOTS but we liked erfwourld we wouldent come in here and start flamming OOTS.And how many of us have gone onto the CAD site and started "flaming"? We're discussing the merits, or lack of them, of a webcomic on a third party forum. How is that in any way offensive?


7. Penny arcade and Ctrl + Alt + Del are almost two different genras (almost)Simple question: how? Are they both not comics in which the primary material is drawn from games and "gamer" culture?


8. The character progression is very very good in Ctrl + Alt + Del, ethan goes from bieng a tard, to a tard marrying lilah.We must have differing definitions of "progression". Ethan has simply not progressed as a character. He is essentially the same character that he was in strip one. That he has endured some notable events, eg Lilah, does not change this. What would count as progression is if these events had fundamentally changed his personality or outlook on life.

Instead we're stuck with an idiot obsessed with computer games. No change there.

CrazyFatGoblin:

I actually thought the same when I read through the PA archives. I really couldn't see what all the fuss was about. The key, as I've discovered since, is that the comic itself is only really an extension of Tycho's news post. both are highly topical and the post, highly entertaining in itself, gives you the background needed to enjoy, or even just understand, the strips.

There's also little to no character progression in PA because there are no story arcs or plots. Each strip, with a few exceptions, stands on its own. If you want to compare CAD to another comic in these terms then you'd be better off reading some PvP.

talsine
2007-03-01, 01:43 PM
Dresden Codak (http://www.dresdencodak.com), on the other hand, has extremely good art and highly intelligent wit. Its only flaw is that there aren't many comics yet and updates are slow.

QFT! I love Dresden Codak, between the one page gaming spoof, the moon strips and Mini Carl Yueng (i can't spell the name, i'm sorry) makes it great. And, as mentioned, the mazing quality of the art doesn't hurt. His linking Dawkins is just iceing on the cake.

Sluggy Freelance and Nukees are amazing as well

J_Muller
2007-03-01, 06:12 PM
If you enjoy it then good for you. I certainly wouldn't agree that Ethan is funny however... not when the joke has been stretched across five years.


How is it "stretched"? He's always stupid in new and interesting ways.

Turcano
2007-03-01, 06:59 PM
to start off I'm a reader of both Penny Arcade and Ctrl + Alt + Del so I'm not against either of them but I do have a few points

(snip)

You know, some people help the cause by not helping the cause. I'm just sayin'.

Waf
2007-03-01, 11:27 PM
The ultimate downfall of CAD I think is that he really puts all of his eggs in one basket with Ethan. If you don't like Ethan or grow tired of his antics CAD quickly becomes terrible. It just has a really really weak supporting cast and most of them only really support Ethan. Barry at Game Haven always talks to Ethan, same with Rob and the customers. Lilth gets objectified by Ethan gets pissed at him, forgives him. Lucas gets ripped off and mistreated by Ethan and makes fun of him and forgives him. Xbot plays videogames with Ethan. Scott ignores and causes bodily harm to Ethan. In the rare occurances where the the Non-Ethans talk to each other they usually are talking about Ethan.

It's the Ethan show starring Ethan. If you don't like Ethan or get tired of the him the comic is no good. That's probably is the comics biggest problem. The cast is incredibly weak and all the eggs are in the Ethan basket.

J_Muller
2007-03-01, 11:54 PM
I think it would help, yeah, if Lucas got a new plotline going.

EDIT: And, there you go. See the new comic.

Om
2007-03-02, 05:48 AM
How is it "stretched"? He's always stupid in new and interesting ways.I call it the "Homer Syndrome" - when a funny idiot slowly becomes stale and simply ends up as a jerk. Ethan was funny once but we've been fed the same joke - "OMG Ethan did something stupid relating to computer games" - for so long now that I simply can't stand him.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-03-05, 03:23 PM
I read both CAD and PA, though I'm sort of a little ashamed to admit the former. It isn't often I laugh at CAD, and the plot is like a slap in the face to anyone who's ever actually, y'know, tried to plot something.

CAD is, altogether, a stereotypical webcomic. It's relation to PA is vastly the same as it's relation to webcomics in general. It's our Eragon.

Of course, if you enjoy CAD (or Eragon), don't let my distaste for it ruin it for you. Just know that there's probably a couple dozen comics out there that you'd like better.

J_Muller
2007-03-05, 09:11 PM
The most annoying thing about the above post is that the fact that I like both CAD and Eragon does nothing to help my argument.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-03-05, 09:34 PM
Like I said, if you like it, read it. Just because I dislike it doesn't mean you should dislike it. I just argue that you can find things you like better in each case if you tried.

I'm under the opinion that CAD (and Eragon) rely almost entirely on set stereotypes that have been done better elsewhere, which is my whole problem with it. So that's why I don't like it, but why do you like it?

J_Muller
2007-03-05, 10:05 PM
I'm under the opinion that CAD (and Eragon) rely almost entirely on set stereotypes that have been done better elsewhere, which is my whole problem with it. So that's why I don't like it, but why do you like it?

Personally, I don't find that the fact that things have been done elsewhere a bad thing. Sure, it's been done elsewhere, but in my eyes, even things that have been done elsewhere are just as good as others.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-03-05, 10:09 PM
Okay, that's reasonable. I even have a morale to this story!

"If you've had a little chocolate every day of your life but you still like chocolate, why give it up?"

Entertainer13
2007-03-05, 10:33 PM
Obviously all the haters on this thread must still be reading the comic. So, I must ask... why are you still reading it?

If you are not reading it, why do you care if I do?

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-03-05, 10:40 PM
I continue to read it because I have an OCD-like compulsion to finish every storyline I begin reading. And truth be told, though I don't enjoy it much, the art's pretty inoffensive and the story/dialogue/jokes do have their good moments.

The only people that should really care whether or not you're reading CAD will be opinion-Nazis and other webcomic authors trying to hit the competition.

Not that I know anyone like that...

And I did suggest continuing to read what you like regardless! See, I'm a good guy! Man does this look bad now.

Turcano
2007-03-05, 11:26 PM
Obviously all the haters on this thread must still be reading the comic.

Wrong. I gave up on it a long time ago. As I said before, I asked myself, "Why am I reading this, again?" And since I didn't have an answer, I stopped reading it. Life is too short to read webcomics you don't really like.


If you are not reading it, why do you care if I do?I don't. Why do you assume that voicing a negative opinion about something somehow amounts to forcing one's taste in entertainment on others?

Entertainer13
2007-03-06, 02:00 AM
Wrong. I gave up on it a long time ago. As I said before, I asked myself, "Why am I reading this, again?" And since I didn't have an answer, I stopped reading it. Life is too short to read webcomics you don't really like.

I don't. Why do you assume that voicing a negative opinion about something somehow amounts to forcing one's taste in entertainment on others?
There just seems to be a lot of time invested in posting everything that's wrong about the comic. I just really didn't understand the motivation for it. That's all.

I'm seriously not attacking. I'll use a happy smiley to indicate as such.

:smallsmile:

There. Now happiness reigns supreme.

Turcano
2007-03-06, 02:13 AM
There just seems to be a lot of time invested in posting everything that's wrong about the comic. I just really didn't understand the motivation for it. That's all.

We're nerds. It's what we're best known for.

Jensik
2007-03-06, 09:12 AM
Ok time to add my opinion. (Because after all, that's what the internet is for!)

I read CAD. It is part of my "routine" because I don't bother keeping track of exactly when they update. (translation: FAR too lazy) Yes, I have a routine. There is a series of webcomics that I check on a regular basis. And they are always in the same order.

VGCats (http://vgcats.com/), Penny-Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com/), PVP (http://pvponline.com/), 8-Bit Theater (http://nuklearpower.com/latest.php), CAD (http://cad-comic.com/index.php), AppleGeeks (http://applegeeks.com/), Megatokyo (http://megatokyo.com/), OOTS (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html), Erfworld (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0030.html), Grim Tales (http://grim.snafu-comics.com/), Questionable Content (http://questionablecontent.net/index.php). Sure I didn't have to link OOTS and Erfworld... but they deserve it.

They each have their reasons for my attention. I'm not going to bore you with the details of each but the reason I read CAD is thus: In Ethan and Lucas I see myself. Granted a very dark side of myself that most likely will not surface while I still maintain a conscious mind, but it is there none the less. Sure sure the quality of the whole thing has declined and Buckley's writing could be better, but if I wanted a compelling story arch I'd read Megatokyo or Applegeeks (Both of which, by the way, had me nearly in tears at some point. A pathetic moment of weakness, but I thought I'd share that.)

Long story short, CHEF BRIAN! It all starts with a large block of cheese...

The Orange Zergling
2007-03-07, 02:53 AM
The latest update was actually funny.*

*For once.

"This isnt the boyfriend you're looking for."

Webwalker
2007-03-07, 02:20 PM
I like CAD. It's a nice amalgamation between PA and PVP, both of which have become quite inconsistent in the past few years. (PVP in particular. It seems to be coasting now.) It's also a rather amusing argument, that CAD hasn't had any character development, and that it's a blatant rip off of PA; there hasn't been much character development at all in the characters of Gabe and Tycho in the entire 8 (9?) year run of PA. They are almost indistinguishable now from their initial creation - if PA was to go back and update all the art so that it is all in the same style, I'm fairly certain you could read the majority of their strips out of order, and not realize it.

CAD has had some character development. Not much, and as others have said, mostly involving Ethan. Not as in Ethan's character developing, but in characters changing around Ethan. Going from entirely unemployed gamers to having jobs to moving into a new place with Lilah are minor changes brought about by Ethan's behaviour; that's more development than PA has had. So I think that particular argument is null and void.

The writing is predictable, yes. That is part of the appeal of that comic to me. Sometimes I like to be surprised; that's why I like Erfworld and OOTS. Sometimes I want to admire artwork I like, which is why I like Megatokyo and Applegeeks. There are times I want to have angry, violent, vulgar and juvenile humour, so I go to 8-Bit, Chopping Block, Little Gamers and PA. (and Pearls before Swine, though I don't think that counts in these lists as a Webcomic. I just read it online.) Sometimes I like to be surprised with variety, so I go to Irregular Webcomic or Sinfest, both of which have long running storylines or characters and you can get a different set of characters 5 comics in a row.

And some times, I like to sit back and enjoy a mid-road web comic that isn't too difficult on the brain. So I go to PVP and CAD. They're easy to read, most of the humour is easily accessible for people like me, who have never even touched an X-Box controller, could care less about the Game Cube or most games, and only play a very small variety of games, as it's not primarily about the games, but about the characters. Who, while not as fleshed out as OOTS, are still very easy to identify with and enjoy. Especially if you work either technical support or retail - those scenes in the stores, with Ethan and customers, or Lucas and idiots, almost always leave me laughing since I've *been* in those situations, and I wanted so badly to do that to customers. (so yeah, I'm a bit biased towards CAD because of that.)

And besides. CAD has Pen-Pen, the only likeable character from Evangelion. Flame on! :smallbiggrin:

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-03-07, 02:50 PM
That's probably the most complete reasoning for enjoying CAD that I've heard yet. Enough for myself to retract my previous ire and replace it with "I prefer more complexity but understand that it's my own base desire for complexity that makes me dislike much of CAD".

Bravo, sir.

Turcano
2007-03-07, 04:08 PM
I like CAD. It's a nice amalgamation between PA and PVP, both of which have become quite inconsistent in the past few years. (PVP in particular. It seems to be coasting now.) It's also a rather amusing argument, that CAD hasn't had any character development, and that it's a blatant rip off of PA; there hasn't been much character development at all in the characters of Gabe and Tycho in the entire 8 (9?) year run of PA. They are almost indistinguishable now from their initial creation - if PA was to go back and update all the art so that it is all in the same style, I'm fairly certain you could read the majority of their strips out of order, and not realize it.

The thing is that PA is not meant to have any meaningful continuity; it's almost purely gag-a-day. (In fact, a story arc rarely goes longer than two or three strips.) Judging it by Story-based webcomic standards will by definition make it come up short.


The writing is predictable, yes. That is part of the appeal of that comic to me. Sometimes I like to be surprised; that's why I like Erfworld and OOTS. Sometimes I want to admire artwork I like, which is why I like Megatokyo and Applegeeks. There are times I want to have angry, violent, vulgar and juvenile humour, so I go to 8-Bit, Chopping Block, Little Gamers and PA. (and Pearls before Swine, though I don't think that counts in these lists as a Webcomic. I just read it online.) Sometimes I like to be surprised with variety, so I go to Irregular Webcomic or Sinfest, both of which have long running storylines or characters and you can get a different set of characters 5 comics in a row.

And some times, I like to sit back and enjoy a mid-road web comic that isn't too difficult on the brain. So I go to PVP and CAD. They're easy to read, most of the humour is easily accessible for people like me, who have never even touched an X-Box controller, could care less about the Game Cube or most games, and only play a very small variety of games, as it's not primarily about the games, but about the characters. Who, while not as fleshed out as OOTS, are still very easy to identify with and enjoy. Especially if you work either technical support or retail - those scenes in the stores, with Ethan and customers, or Lucas and idiots, almost always leave me laughing since I've *been* in those situations, and I wanted so badly to do that to customers. (so yeah, I'm a bit biased towards CAD because of that.)

I've said before that CAD is the Garfield of the webcomic world, and this goes a long way in explaining why that's so. Garfield is popular as hell, but no one really gets anything out of it, in a manner of speaking. Of course, you're coming from the perspective that that's not a bad thing, and you're certainly entitled to that perspective. (I also agree with Viscount Einstrauss that that's the best defense of CAD that I've seen from anybody.)

Reinforcements
2007-03-08, 12:24 AM
And some times, I like to sit back and enjoy a mid-road web comic that isn't too difficult on the brain. So I go to PVP and CAD. They're easy to read, most of the humour is easily accessible for people like me, who have never even touched an X-Box controller, could care less about the Game Cube or most games, and only play a very small variety of games, as it's not primarily about the games, but about the characters. Who, while not as fleshed out as OOTS, are still very easy to identify with and enjoy. Especially if you work either technical support or retail - those scenes in the stores, with Ethan and customers, or Lucas and idiots, almost always leave me laughing since I've *been* in those situations, and I wanted so badly to do that to customers. (so yeah, I'm a bit biased towards CAD because of that.)
*shrug* I guess it's just a subjective thing, because I've worked a lot of retail and I don't identify with Ethan or Lucas at all. One reason is that they're both totally flat and empty as characters, but I just never get the "I've been there" thing. Lucas especially is just an ass to customers for no reason. Maybe it was funny the first time, but the whole "customer says stupid thing => Lucas viciously insults them" formula got old fast.

Khantalas
2007-03-08, 09:34 AM
Maybe it was funny the first time, but the whole "customer says stupid thing => Lucas viciously insults them" formula got old fast.

So, we can say you don't like a large portion of User Friendly?

Webwalker
2007-03-10, 03:58 PM
The thing is that PA is not meant to have any meaningful continuity; it's almost purely gag-a-day. (In fact, a story arc rarely goes longer than two or three strips.) Judging it by Story-based webcomic standards will by definition make it come up short.

Oh I completely agree. However, there were some comparisons made in this thread about how CAD is a rip off of PA, and that a big problem with CAD was no Character development. It's a very odd criticism to make, considering the intentional lack of character development in PA. That is why I made the comment; it's a mistake to compare and judge PA and CAD by the same standards, since they quite obviously follow different formula's.


That's probably the most complete reasoning for enjoying CAD that I've heard yet. Enough for myself to retract my previous ire and replace it with "I prefer more complexity but understand that it's my own base desire for complexity that makes me dislike much of CAD".

Bravo, sir


I've said before that CAD is the Garfield of the webcomic world, and this goes a long way in explaining why that's so. Garfield is popular as hell, but no one really gets anything out of it, in a manner of speaking. Of course, you're coming from the perspective that that's not a bad thing, and you're certainly entitled to that perspective. (I also agree with Viscount Einstrauss that that's the best defense of CAD that I've seen from anybody.)

Thank you.

Turcano
2007-03-10, 06:39 PM
Oh I completely agree. However, there were some comparisons made in this thread about how CAD is a rip off of PA, and that a big problem with CAD was no Character development. It's a very odd criticism to make, considering the intentional lack of character development in PA. That is why I made the comment; it's a mistake to compare and judge PA and CAD by the same standards, since they quite obviously follow different formula's.

Yeah, the more nuanced criticism is that CAD is a weird syncretism between PA and PvP and therefore suffers through a failure to specialize. Just how accurate that criticism is is hard to tell; I'm not privy to Buckley's motivations behind the comic, so answering that question would require some form of higher criticism, which I have neither the time nor the motivation to undertake.

mmorpc
2007-03-17, 12:40 PM
In the last few strips, to me, it really feels like he found that spark for making the comic again. It has gotten alot closer to the funny it use to be, not quite 100% but getting closer.

Tor the Fallen
2007-03-20, 04:21 AM
In the last few strips, to me, it really feels like he found that spark for making the comic again. It has gotten alot closer to the funny it use to be, not quite 100% but getting closer.

I couldn't disagree with you more.

Waf
2007-03-20, 12:28 PM
Yeah I hate to say it, cause I thought it stood a chance having a storyline that wasn't about Ethan so I took up reading it again, and it was actually worse than usual if that's possible. I'm starting to think he only writes Ethan cause he is the only one he knows how to write.

Peter Harris
2007-03-20, 03:27 PM
I agree. When I started my comic, I wrote down a list of comics that I wanted to draw inspiration from. Questionable Content for its compelling characters and story. [/i]MegaTokyo[/i] for its dynamic panel layout. Rob and Elliot for its wacky zaniness. And Penny-Arcade for it's honest-to-god hilarity, and the level of crastmanship the strip exhibits. (Don't get me wrong, guys - I love OOTS, but it's not the strip I'm going for.)

There was a fifth strip on that list, too. Ctrl-Alt-Del, for being everything I don't want to be. Sometimes the jokes are funny, but not often enough. But mostly, for a strip that promises "story arcs" and "continuity," there's been no real development in the strip. Ethan getting engaged doesn't count - his relationship hasn't really changed. I mean, he still lives with Lucas and the weird Linux guy. Which, if you ask me, is a really awful running joke.

I think Ctrl-Alt-Del is the perfect example of what is wrong with successful webcomics - becoming, relatively speaking (for the web), the same droll, bland affair that the dailies in the dead-tree papers have become. I think CAD could be good, but I don't think it is.

At all.


EDIT: Turcano, that is the best avatar I've ever seen, bar none.

ZombieEl
2007-04-06, 12:52 PM
I read cad far too much, I generally don't enjoy it. Some kind of bad habit I have, none of my friends see me looking at it, ever. I read it in the dark all alone.

I also despise the front page updates that writer does. I HATE THEM! Sometimes I read them to kickstart my day and get that blood pumping, he is a terrible man.

I don't read PA though, never ever laughed at it. So it is really a puzzle what it is that hooked me to cad.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-07, 04:13 AM
The thrice a week posts of Tycho are sheer intellectual delight. That man has a way with words that makes me feel funny in all sorts of places.

ZombieEl
2007-04-07, 10:15 AM
I realized I was addicted to CAD and it was hurting me, I have deleted all cad bookmarks. I think I will be strong enough to never look at it again.

whitedog20
2007-04-25, 05:43 PM
I dunno I'M not addicted an' I've read all of 'em and I must read more...oh...wait...dangit!!!

Renee Katz
2007-04-25, 11:49 PM
Ctrl Alt Del bores me to tears, yet it's #1 out of over 8,000 on The Webcomic List. I'm not sure why . . .

EvilElitest
2007-04-27, 12:22 PM
Maybe if CAD actually developed the characters, that would be worth something. Ethan is a simple, "I like videogames" stereotype, Lilah has no depth beyond "girl. Who also plays games!" and Lucas is "sarcastic friend."

The characters have no depth, and Buckley is just incapable of writing a good punchline without dragging it out to the point where it just isn't funny anymore.

I really like CAD, but i don't think its real intention is for the stories. Its real intention is to cratizieze games, gaming companies, and anything he finds bad about the genre.

It is a very critical work, but very funny, like his gamers bible thing
And about all the sarcasstic gags, that is why they are funny, some people like sarcasiom. Yes, CAD as bad stories, but i reallly like all hte sarcastic over the top gamers in the story. Saying CAD should be more character orented is like saying Something Positive should be less dark

I suspect its a reference to the time when Buckley threw a hissy fit and shut down the CAD WoW guild simply because it had continued to function after he stopped playing.
When did this happen? Could i have a link?



from,
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