Good Thieves

[Dante Leos]

I was recently thinking that many people would not have rouges and such be lawful or good, since they are thieves much of the time. I know that there are ways to challenge this notion, and would like some help thinking of different ways in which characters could be thieves yet good, lawful or maybe even both. Such as a character who only steals from people who steal.

So lets access our different Alignments shall we? (When you post an idea you should state which one you are speaking of)

Lawful Good:

Lawful Neutral:

Neutral Good:

Chaotic Good:

Lawful Evil: (This one is already kind of established, but I think its worthwhile to speak of anyways)

[Angelalex242]

Chaotic Good:Haley Starshine. As Richard has written it, so mote it be.
Neutral Good:This rogue focuses more on the keep my friends safe from traps part of being a rogue then any actual stealing of stuff.
Lawful Good:Dwarven Trapsmith.
Lawful Neutral:This rogue spends all his time catching other rogues. Like Hackers hired by the NSA to keep their system safe.
Lawful Evil:This rogue is a Lawyer. Or possibly a used horse salesman.

[Sir Chuckles]

Chaotic Good is easy, Robin Hood. Equating them to existing characters may be difficult, as the whole "stealing for good" shtick is rarely non-Chaotic.

But I'll have to disagree with the whole "Rogue=Thief" thing.

[ArqArturo]

Chaotic Good is easy, Robin Hood. Equating them to existing characters may be difficult, as the whole "stealing for good" shtick is rarely non-Chaotic.

But I'll have to disagree with the whole "Rogue=Thief" thing.

Where would the Brothers without Banners fall into?.

[torrasque666]

LE: a mafioso style housebreaker. He's the guy who arranges the whole "Horse's head in your bed" type deal.

[Sir Chuckles]

Where would the Brothers without Banners fall into?.

*not a GoT fan*
Going over a Wiki page, I'd say Chaotic Good. Individuals may vary. They're listed as an outlaw brotherhood/resistance group. Which is almost spot on Robin Hood and his Merry Men.

[Dante Leos]

I didn't quite mean this going in the direction it is, I meant it more of HOW a character would play a thieflike character of each alignment, not so much comparing them to other things.

[Angelalex242]

That is insufficient information for a better response.

I pointed out Haley Starshine as an example of CG because there's 952 comics you can read in which you can see how she reacts and behaves.

[Telonius]

There's nothing about the mechanics of a Rogue that requires it to be a thief. Have a look at the skill list, and then picture all the skills a good police officer needs to have. Other than Sleight of Hand, just about all of them fit. (Including Forgery - Forgery is opposed by a Forgery check, meaning he can tell if a document is genuine or not).

If you're really wedded to the idea of Rogues needing steal things, a Lawful Good thief would be the sort of person who recovers an object (or a person) that's already been stolen. A Lawful Neutral thief would be something like a tomb raider for hire: he'll break in and get the idol as long as he gets paid. A Neutral Good thief would steal things to help people survive (classic "loaf of bread for his starving family" example). Chaotic Good is your Robin Hood guy, a freebooter who steals for the benefit of others. Lawful Evil thieves are the Mafia or whatever equivalent Thieves' Guild your world has. They have their hierarchy and their turf, and strongly follow a code. They go out of their way to intimidate and oppress the locals.

[Benthesquid]

The classic answer to "Chaotic Good Thief," which will almost certainly be mentioned before I complete this post, is Robin Hood, (at least in England and America- I assume that other cultures have similar figures in folklore). He stole from the rich and the perceived corrupt government, and gave to the poor. Another example here might be Black Cat from Marvel Comics, who often steals from criminals and helps Spider-man fight various villains (at times she shades more into Chaotic Neutral).

Lawful is trickier. I remember a group of bandits in an Lloyd Alexander book (possibly the Remarkable Journey of Prince Jen, but I couldn't swear to that) who had a complex set of rules governing who they could and couldn't rob. For example, they couldn't take from the poor or from anybody who was in mourning, as that would only add to their burdens, or from anybody who had recently received good news, as that would ruin their joy.

Similarly, the Pirates of Penzance had their own sets of rules- they would never rob an orphan, and they would never attack an opponent weaker than themselves. Also, some pretty strict terms on their apprenticeship contracts.

Of course, merely having a set of rules isn't likely to raise them above Lawful Neutral, since they're still taking other people's stuff which is not, of itself, generally a good act.

So to be Lawful Good Thieves (focusing on thiefing specifically, since that was the question asked, and not general Lawful Good Rogues,) here are some thoughts.

The Property Recovery Specialist: Steals only that which has already been stolen. Specializes in returning items of great actual or sentimental value quickly and with minimum fuss.

The Starling Hat- Like Robin Hood, they face a corrupt or tyrannical government. Unlike Robin Hood, they're less concerned with living a life of freedom in the woods, and more concerned with addressing the problems with the system. They don't just rob the tax collectors and distribute the money to the poor, they invest it in arming and training the populace to rise up.

The Reformed Thief- Previously a bandit or cutpurse, she's recanted her wicked ways, and is currently at work catching those who still prey on the unwary. Likely partnered with a dour city watchman.

[Dante Leos]

That is insufficient information for a better response.

I pointed out Haley Starshine as an example of CG because there's 952 comics you can read in which you can see how she reacts and behaves.

Got a point there, so lets change the direction, how would a player who made a lawful good character for example, interact with the rest of the world? Instead of using a character with their own ticks and eccentricities, lets go by a character who might have fairly generic traits in other aspects. Such as how would this lawful good thief go about his job? What is his code? How does he operate? How does he view his work? How do others view his work?

Mainly I am saying what are the alignment archetypes would a player have for each alignment? I have seen a paladin guide for example before where someone stated different ways a Lawful Good character could act, such as a beacon of good who led people to his path, or someone who was part of the law, but takes matters into his own hands and deals out the law brutally himself, or the classic Lawful Doofus who announces to the enemy they will be attacked. I want something like this, as it was very fulfilling reading fresh ways to play alignments with alternate ways of doing things for a paladin, but there seems to not be any conversation of this about rouges or related classes, that often focus on thievery.

EDIT: Also did not mean to state that all rouges are thieves are anything, just stating for the statistical majority that are.

[Dante Leos]

The classic answer to "Chaotic Good Thief," which will almost certainly be mentioned before I complete this post, is Robin Hood, (at least in England and America- I assume that other cultures have similar figures in folklore). He stole from the rich and the perceived corrupt government, and gave to the poor. Another example here might be Black Cat from Marvel Comics, who often steals from criminals and helps Spider-man fight various villains (at times she shades more into Chaotic Neutral).

Lawful is trickier. I remember a group of bandits in an Lloyd Alexander book (possibly the Remarkable Journey of Prince Jen, but I couldn't swear to that) who had a complex set of rules governing who they could and couldn't rob. For example, they couldn't take from the poor or from anybody who was in mourning, as that would only add to their burdens, or from anybody who had recently received good news, as that would ruin their joy.

Similarly, the Pirates of Penzance had their own sets of rules- they would never rob an orphan, and they would never attack an opponent weaker than themselves. Also, some pretty strict terms on their apprenticeship contracts.

Of course, merely having a set of rules isn't likely to raise them above Lawful Neutral, since they're still taking other people's stuff which is not, of itself, generally a good act.

So to be Lawful Good Thieves (focusing on thiefing specifically, since that was the question asked, and not general Lawful Good Rogues,) here are some thoughts.

The Property Recovery Specialist: Steals only that which has already been stolen. Specializes in returning items of great actual or sentimental value quickly and with minimum fuss.

The Starling Hat- Like Robin Hood, they face a corrupt or tyrannical government. Unlike Robin Hood, they're less concerned with living a life of freedom in the woods, and more concerned with addressing the problems with the system. They don't just rob the tax collectors and distribute the money to the poor, they invest it in arming and training the populace to rise up.

The Reformed Thief- Previously a bandit or cutpurse, she's recanted her wicked ways, and is currently at work catching those who still prey on the unwary. Likely partnered with a dour city watchman.

The last three things are what I wanted the direction of this discussion to be meant as. Good work Benthesquid.