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View Full Version : Weird@55 ideas #1: merge monk/fighter into one class?



Thoughtbot360
2007-02-16, 10:06 AM
So. Here's the deal. I was thinking, the fighter is actually supposed to be a flexible class, that can be based of any of the worlds great fighting traditions, right? But they rely so much on their gear, regardless of their versitility, whilst every monk in D20 is exactly the same (I know most everyone who plays a "monk" focuses on the idea of a Bruce Lee type kicking butt, not neccesarily some overly intropective, asthetic Buddist who seeks enlightenment and harmony with himself). This, to me, is tragic. There are huge differences bewteen martial arts (and not all martial arts are Asain: Savate, Capoeira, the Pankirion, and any training for elite fighters of any culture, which includes the Aristocratic Knight) but most teach weapons AND bare-fisted fighting.

Why add these?
Bonus feats-since this whole thing is about allowing a fighter to take monk abilities, why not do the obvious thing and give the fighter the monk's bonus feats? If the idea of a Stunning Elbow from the fighter holding a Bastard sword and a Tower shield scares you, you can always impose a house rule requiring that Stunning Fist must now be, literally, a stunning FIST, requiring a free hand.

Unarmed strike/Flurry of blows: Most martial arts styles taught today teach armed combat as well as unarmed. In fact its a historical philosphy that "before you pick up a weapon, your body must become a weapon." Also good for barfights/fighting Improved Disarm and Sunder nerds. Flurry upgrades via fighter level (you still have to be unarmored and use monk weapons XD), but probably should force chars to buy more feats to improve damage dice, spaced out with fighter level prerequisites.

AC bonus/Still mind- Hey, who said all fighters have to be a "sluggo?" Meditation and Enlightenment are entirely valid paths for fighters, namely those who study internalized fighting styles (externalized styles like Muay Thai or most wrestling styles don't teach students to explore their own selves and therefore students never develop a "Sixth Sense" like other monks). Actually, its any literary fighter worth his salt was a bad ass who hear that arrow the sniper was aiming at Robin Hood's head a mile away. Oh wait, that was Blinken, nevermind.

Evasion: probably should have 17 dexterity + Lightning Reflexes or something as a prerequisite, but hey.

Fast Movement/Slow Fall/Quivering Palm: You say you want a Ninja character?

Ki strike: It should have prerequisites of a whole lot of unarmed strike upgrades per level of Ki strike, also, Prerequisite Lawful alignment to represent no-nonsense devotion to training.

Unworkable/Ridiculous powers:
Purity of body/Wholeness of Body-Play a Paladin, you munchkin!
Leap of the Clouds- For those who still play 3.0 version. Don't add this. Just. Don't.
Diamond Body/Soul- I'm still emphasizing
Forced Lawful alignment-Except
Timeless body/Tongue of Sun+Moon/Empty Body/Perfect Self- Do I need to explain these?

So, whaddya think?

<Insert Open Game Lincense here>

AoiRorentsu
2007-02-16, 11:43 AM
You raise a good point- both classes seem a little silly in their non-versatility. Have you checked out the Tome of Battle classes? they sort of combine the monk and the fighter, whilst allowing for people to do "flip out and kill people."

Fax Celestis
2007-02-16, 11:46 AM
I've given serious thought to making one core class and granting a number of Class-Shaping points per level and gaining a bonus feat every level. These bonus feats can only be used to purchase other class abilities, with predetermined prerequisites.

Kinda like True20, but not.

bosssmiley
2007-02-16, 11:55 AM
Been done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=219521) and done well, by Jaerom Darkwind of the WOTC boards and DiceFreaks.

Thoughtbot360
2007-02-16, 01:28 PM
Been done (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=219521) and done well, by Jaerom Darkwind of the WOTC boards and DiceFreaks.

That is awesome

Leush
2007-02-16, 01:30 PM
Firstly, yes doing that to the fighter does make sense in my opinion, but then class skills should be altered too.


I've given serious thought to making one core class and granting a number of Class-Shaping points per level and gaining a bonus feat every level. These bonus feats can only be used to purchase other class abilities, with predetermined prerequisites.

Kinda like True20, but not.


I actually did this too. I even assigned how many class points would go to each seperate thing. However, I didn't put enough thought or time into this, and it slowly disintigrated. I've cooled slightly to the idea, but now that I hear it mentioned again... If you'd like we could co-operate on the matter.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-16, 01:32 PM
I actually did this too. I even assigned how many class points would go to each seperate thing. However, I didn't put enough thought or time into this, and it slowly disintigrated. I've cooled slightly to the idea, but now that I hear it mentioned again... If you'd like we could co-operate on the matter.

Post what you've got on the Homebrew Fora and I'll see about what I can do about it.

Josh Inno
2007-02-16, 02:40 PM
Hmmm. You guys are slowly getting closer and closer to classless point based systems like besm 2d6. Soon all you'' need to do is assign the points directly instead of by XP, and you're there!

Matthew
2007-02-16, 03:00 PM
Heh. Well, since the 2.x Player's Option Series actually did pretty much just that, it's not too surprising.

Thoughtbot360
2007-02-16, 06:23 PM
Hmmm. You guys are slowly getting closer and closer to classless point based systems like besm 2d6. Soon all you'' need to do is assign the points directly instead of by XP, and you're there!

OMG! I had an idea just like that! The basic problem I have with the level system is that experience is a hard thing to measure with NPCs. You could just raise important NPCs (and regional law enforcement) to the PCs level, but whats the point of them getting strong in the first place?

I read an article that talks about the merits of being Level One Forever (http://www.gamegrene.com/node/403) and it got me thinking: the thing thats attractive about leveling up is not more hit points or more damage to keep up with the hit points (although Fireballs are pretty cool) its the class abilities/skills/feat that matter. They can let you play same character in an entirely different way (and we all know just how exciting it is to use the same old magic missile over and over again :smallannoyed: )

In the out-of print Street Fighter:the Storytelling game, you start out with 10 health levels (hit points) and can achieve a maximum of 20. Add a maximum of 8 stamina to reduce enemy damage dice (armor? Ryu and Ken never hear of it. XD), but thats it. It helps both players and Game Masters to have a set amount of health (especially in dot form, right on the character sheet (http://sfrpg.com/SFSheetPerfect.pdf)), rather than have to constantly erase and scribble down some number on a D20 sheet.

So I've been trying to create a system where you switch classes (a la Final Fantasy 5/ FF tactics) but keep the old class abilities. You buy new ability points/feats/skill/Base Attack Bonuses/EOM caster levels (http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&)/ and class abilities with the experience points that the DM gives you. Hypothetically, you could advance from a commoner > a better NPC class > Core PC class > Prestige class. "Multiclassing" is simply paying the XP to purchase the new class and you learn class abilities/class skills from your "present class." But your hit points and direct damage-related attributes are both capped off at a maximum and particularly difficult to level (hit points made easier to level via your present class' Hit die if its over d6.) I use Musashi's (http://www.mu.ranter.net/theory/general.html#death) and Shadowolf's system for permanent death, only applying it to the use of Ressurection magic. I like this system of limited ressurections because 1) it allows me to circumvene the fact that characters don't have "levels" anymore and 2) It reasons out why its worth your time to kill the bad guy, or anyone for that matter, in a world with Ressurection.

One reason I like toying around with keeping characters low-powered, yet advancable is because of the concept of world balance. Namely, balance bewteen intelligent creatures capable of building their own civilizations (even if it takes them a while), but also to attempt to answer why archers don't simply become mages. But think about it humanoids and other sentients: anything with human-like (or better!) intelligence with a CR over 10th level should rule the world. Supposedly, the reason why kobolds and goblins get in the "good" race's hair so often is because they treated like second-class citizens (or food sources) by other, stronger monsters. Why isn't this the case with say, Humans and Cloud Giants?