Help me understand D&D settlements

[Kafana]

If a village with a thousand members has a level 3 cleric as their leader, will any of them stay hurt for more than a day, go hungry and so on, like ever? Alright, he might not be able to remove disease, but I sort of feel like the power of a PC class such as a wizard or a cleric, even when low level, is high enough to make at least a significant portion of problems that we had in our world during the medieval era obsolete.

Alright, he can't feed the whole village, nor can he cure mummy rot, but if the village is in a peaceful area, there shouldn't be as many problems as our people had during that period of history.

Is this assumption correct, and could you give me your thoughts?

I really should preface this by saying that my world has stronger NPCs than the DMG suggests. Not by a lot, but the highest level NPC in a settlement is usually two or even three levels higher than recommended and the number of NPCs with PC classes is higher by about 50% (though most, if not all instances are of level 1 or 2 characters).

[Flickerdart]

If a village with a thousand members has a level 3 cleric as their leader, will any of them stay hurt for more than a day, go hungry and so on, like ever?
A 1st level spell costs 10gp. An unskilled labourer makes 1sp per day. How often do you think he's going to go to the cleric to treat a boo-boo?

Similarly, it's much cheaper to just go buy yourself a chicken (1cp) than solicit for a Create Food and Water spell (150gp).

[HighWater]

If a village with a thousand members has a level 3 cleric as their leader, will any of them stay hurt for more than a day, go hungry and so on, like ever? Alright, he might not be able to remove disease, but I sort of feel like the power of a PC class such as a wizard or a cleric, even when low level, is high enough to make at least a significant portion of problems that we had in our world during the medieval era obsolete.

Alright, he can't feed the whole village, nor can he cure mummy rot, but if the village is in a peaceful area, there shouldn't be as many problems as our people had during that period of history.

Is this assumption correct, and could you give me your thoughts?

I really should preface this by saying that my world has stronger NPCs than the DMG suggests. Not by a lot, but the highest level NPC in a settlement is usually two or even three levels higher than recommended and the number of NPCs with PC classes is higher by about 50% (though most, if not all instances are of level 1 or 2 characters).

The capabilities of NPC's with class levels may be beyond what "real world" healers could do, but I do think this may be more than offset by the massively dangerous supernatural crapstorm that is the Monster Manual 1-5 and beyond. Add to that the wide variety of poisons and diseases that may be beyond the poor cleric and his resources, and the fact that if he uses up all his spells on Create Food and Water and such stuff, he will be pretty easy pickings for the next Dire Wolverine that wanders into town. Most NPC's want to be paid and, frankly, what they're asking is far much more than a commoner can cough up consistently. Also, you still have to get to the cleric in time (before bleeding out) as Raise Dead is prohibitively expensive.


All that said: please don't look too closely at the cardboard background, neigh any fantasy setting unravels pretty quickly if you try to apply realism to it. Those commoners are dirt farmers that get sick and hungry and die a lot because the Fantasy expects it "but with magic". You're free to ignore this bit, of course, but if you don't, there's an enless list of other unrealistic things that you may also want to tend to... :smallwink:

[Kazudo]

If a village with a thousand members has a level 3 cleric as their leader, will any of them stay hurt for more than a day, go hungry and so on, like ever? Alright, he might not be able to remove disease, but I sort of feel like the power of a PC class such as a wizard or a cleric, even when low level, is high enough to make at least a significant portion of problems that we had in our world during the medieval era obsolete.

Alright, he can't feed the whole village, nor can he cure mummy rot, but if the village is in a peaceful area, there shouldn't be as many problems as our people had during that period of history.

Is this assumption correct, and could you give me your thoughts?

I really should preface this by saying that my world has stronger NPCs than the DMG suggests. Not by a lot, but the highest level NPC in a settlement is usually two or even three levels higher than recommended and the number of NPCs with PC classes is higher by about 50% (though most, if not all instances are of level 1 or 2 characters).

It would be a huge stretch to say that a village in a peaceful area wouldn't have problems. It tends to create a stagnant area which can lead to the perpetuation of false ideas being paraded as true (The king's a dragon, the blacksmith's a demon, it's ok to perform ritual murder as long as the guard isn't in town, etc.), and can lead to severe infighting amongst the entire village. Without an outside influence and in a "controlled, closed environment", you get to the point where other problems show up.

The other issue is that with a world with a scaling power slightly higher than normal, the concept of a "peaceful area" needs to be defined. Settlements are build around resources. Resources attract attention. Farming community? Lots of fertile land, huh. Ranching community? Hmm. Animals. Mining community? Rich ores nearby. Foresting community? Good timber and wood. Built on a crossroads? Great for trade. No matter what the resource, someone wants it. With the bottom line of the power scale brought up a tad, more people can TAKE it too.

Then there's the political stretch that you have to figure out. Who owns the land? The villagers surely don't, and if they do then they don't enjoy the protection of the nobility's army. If no country owns the land, someone will want it. If someone does, then the villagers pay taxes in some form or fashion to whomever owns it. What happens if the weather is terrible, a drought shows up and wipes out their crops? An earthquake collapses their mining tunnels? A plague sweeps the trees and their timber rots? They can't afford their taxes or rent, and suddenly political power is bearing down on them.

Or worse: If their village is perched between countries, they might be a goal for an enterprising conqueror.

I guess I don't understand your question. Even to the most idyllic villages with the best internal infrastructure and strong, goodly leadership, life could still happen.

[ArqArturo]

This is why I treat PC class NPCs as rare as diamonds.

That town healer? He's either a priest with knowledge in alchemy and botany, or a venerable mystic with only a few spells in his repertoire, and perhaps a scroll or two.

The town witch? the villagers put her that nose and clothes, but she did turn the village idiot into a newt.

The city guard? Warriors.

Etc, etc...

[Honest Tiefling]

Even in a peaceful era, injuries and famine can strike multiple people at once. If the frost is early or the rains are bad, everyone (Possibly including the priest themselves) are majorly screwed and feeding a few people is barely going to help. They could just be poor, and the number of people without a means to support themselves outnumber the cleric's ability to help.

A mine could collapse, injuring much of the working populace. A plague could sweep through, hitting at least someone in most households. Floods, fires, storms, earthquakes, etc. all mean that the cleric has to pick who lives and who he doesn't even see before they die.

And even in the case of individual accidents, many of them could take place outside of the village, such as drowning, logging accidents, or even horses so the person dies before anyone can reach them, let alone get them healed.

[Gnome Alone]

"Cardboard background" is right. The default assumption is a sort of quasi-Middle Ages pseudo-Europe, with all its attendant superstitious peasants and feudalism and land wars between armies and such. The "Tippyverse" that one may often hear about is an attempt to actually think through the implications of introducing actual, honest-to-gods freaking magic to such a scenario - principally it hypothesizes a massive concentration of the population into metropolises based on the idea of teleportation circles making this both feasible and secure. It is also sidetracked by some silly RAW-abuse about traps resetting themselves without recasting their spells, leading to a post-scarcity society, but whatever. I think it's actually really hard to imagine the full social implications, so I think the best option is to either ignore it with some weapons-grade handwavium, or just make the Magical Revolution have whatever effects you feel are reasonable. But yeah, geez, even a few altruistic clerics with Create Food and Water would obviate the whole feudal farming system in a town pretty much instantly. Who needs to fight for resources when they're literally something-from-nothing free? Thermodynamics begone-icus maximus!

[BWR]

A 1st level spell costs 10gp. An unskilled labourer makes 1sp per day. How often do you think he's going to go to the cleric to treat a boo-boo?

Similarly, it's much cheaper to just go buy yourself a chicken (1cp) than solicit for a Create Food and Water spell (150gp).

Nothing prevents the casters from providing spellcasting services for free. Barring component costs, everything is merely demanding payment for time and effort spent, and you notice it turns out to be a pretty decent hourly wage. There are examples of D&D villages or even kingdoms with what amounts to free health care. The cost in the PHB is basically there to help DMs set a base price for a service and discourage players from running rampant with hired help.

Better arguments are: Create Food and Water is bland and people like real food, so they grow real food. The gods don't like lazy sods who can't be bothered to work for a living, so farmers are still required to work the land. Divine gifts can be used to help in an emergency, but are not to be squandered on frivolities. Boo-boos are not healed, but for your average person anything requiring no more than a CLW is not just a scrape but a serious injury.

[Flickerdart]

Nothing prevents the casters from providing spellcasting services for free.
Demand does. A 3rd level cleric has about 5 spells per day, total.

[Doug Lampert]

Demand does. A 3rd level cleric has about 5 spells per day, total.

Bog standard NPC cleric at that level has 7 spells of level 1+ and 4 of level 0, so over twice what you say. But he can't create food and water because that's level 3 and he doesn't get level 3 spells.

OTOH, the bog standard human commoner has 12 skill points and 2 feats, if he puts ZERO of these into anything actually useful to his life he can use craft untrained and get 5 GP per week, since everyone keeps telling me that 1 SP per day is the "standard" wage for peasants that must mean he gets 4.3 GP in surplus income per week; he can buy a spell every week or two if he needs to. He can save up for less than 3 months and buy masterwork tools for an added 1 GP/week forever. If he actually puts some of his time into training the skills he uses to EARN A LIVING rather than improvising that he gets more like 10 GP a week.

D&D land peasants can afford to buy a spell at need, but they won't do so casually. It would be like me spending a few thousand on health care. But they can buy a spell and they can afford to buy a house (900 GP) with about 2 years income, which isn't that different from the real world.

[Flickerdart]

1 SP per day is the "standard" wage for peasants
1SP/day is the standard wage for an untrained labourer, a drifter wandering from village to village and helping out with lifting things and other tasks that require no skills. These people barely subsist, sleeping in haystacks and sheds and eating maybe once a day.

A peasant such as one you describe (trained in a crafting trade) would be enjoying the benefits of 3 meals per day, a house to sleep in and a workshop to work in, and a wife and children, all of which cost money to acquire and maintain.

[KorbeltheReader]

There are some unfortunate ethical implications there though.

A cleric who went around healing and feeding people for free would have a line around the block every day of people looking for help, which is exactly what one would expect to see if a town had a miracle worker. There would be pilgrimages from the around the region to see him and be healed. Once people figure out that he only has 5 uses/day, there would be fights and begging and prostitution and whatnot to get in the front of the line. The cleric would then have to post guards at the line to tamp down that kind of thing, and he'd still have local lords demanding a spot at the front of the line, and other less scrupulous types possibly even trying to capture or extort him.

The alternative to that is what the books say, 10gp per cast, which rations cleric services according to who has money. It keeps the peace more easily, I guess, but I don't see how you keep a good alignment in that scenario. A 3rd level cleric who begrudges a cure light wounds to the mortally wounded or a create food and water to the starving because they can't cough up 10gp, when it costs him nothing at all and he gets several per day, has a heart of stone.

[Flickerdart]

A 3rd level cleric who begrudges a cure light wounds to the mortally wounded or a create food and water to the starving because they can't cough up 10gp, when it costs him nothing at all and he gets several per day, has a heart of stone.
A 3rd level cleric can't have a heart of stone - it's an 8th level wizard spell.

[Tvtyrant]

There are some unfortunate ethical implications there though.

A cleric who went around healing and feeding people for free would have a line around the block every day of people looking for help, which is exactly what one would expect to see if a town had a miracle worker. There would be pilgrimages from the around the region to see him and be healed. Once people figure out that he only has 5 uses/day, there would be fights and begging and prostitution and whatnot to get in the front of the line. The cleric would then have to post guards at the line to tamp down that kind of thing, and he'd still have local lords demanding a spot at the front of the line, and other less scrupulous types possibly even trying to capture or extort him.

The alternative to that is what the books say, 10gp per cast, which rations cleric services according to who has money. It keeps the peace more easily, I guess, but I don't see how you keep a good alignment in that scenario. A 3rd level cleric who begrudges a cure light wounds to the mortally wounded or a create food and water to the starving because they can't cough up 10gp, when it costs him nothing at all and he gets several per day, has a heart of stone.

I think there is more to it then that. Clearly a Cleric living in a city makes much more money, but cities are dangerous and kind of gross. You may very well have a retired elderly cleric who the village pays a stipend to as a whole in return for free on-demand magical healing.

Likewise you may have a region where the only magical healing is from a Druid, who comes by the various villages and heals on Saturdays in return for the villages meeting certain environmental standards.

[Venom3053000]

3rd level cleric can have the touch of healing feat

as long you have prepared a 2nd level healing spell you can heal people up to half their hitpoints :smalltongue:

its not much but it can stop people bleeding out

[Flickerdart]

3rd level cleric can have the touch of healing feat

as long you have prepared a 2nd level healing spell you can heal people up to half their hitpoints :smalltongue:

its not much but it can stop people bleeding out
While this is true, peasants are unlikely to have much use for it: your average 1HD commoner has 2 hit points, so the only case the cleric can help with is when the commoner is at 0 or lower but stable. Since it is unlikely that the cleric happens to be in the vicinity of whatever brings the person down to negatives in the first place, the cleric is no use when stabilizing the target (but thankfully, a random peasant has a 25% chance every round of stabilizing the character with a Heal check, in addition to the 10% chance of it happening naturally, so stabilizing is likely to occur).

On the plus side, the cap on Touch of Healing doesn't matter too much - after 1 day of bed rest, the commoner will regain the missing hit point naturally.

[Venom3053000]

While this is true, peasants are unlikely to have much use for it: your average 1HD commoner has 2 hit points, so the only case the cleric can help with is when the commoner is at 0 or lower but stable. Since it is unlikely that the cleric happens to be in the vicinity of whatever brings the person down to negatives in the first place, the cleric is no use when stabilizing the target (but thankfully, a random peasant has a 25% chance every round of stabilizing the character with a Heal check, in addition to the 10% chance of it happening naturally, so stabilizing is likely to occur).

On the plus side, the cap on Touch of Healing doesn't matter too much - after 1 day of bed rest, the commoner will regain the missing hit point naturally.

well I did say it's not much :smalltongue:

but any one in the negatives will probably have a cleric vist them

bed rest is a poweful thing and cleric know it :smallbiggrin:

[Slipperychicken]

The alternative to that is what the books say, 10gp per cast, which rations cleric services according to who has money. It keeps the peace more easily, I guess, but I don't see how you keep a good alignment in that scenario. A 3rd level cleric who begrudges a cure light wounds to the mortally wounded or a create food and water to the starving because they can't cough up 10gp, when it costs him nothing at all and he gets several per day, has a heart of stone.

Charging for healing magic can absolutely be good-aligned: That 3rd level spell? You can either use it to make one meal for a hobo, or you can cast it for a rich person, get 150 gold from him, then turn around and use that money to buy 1,500 meals for your hobo and feed him for years.

For that spell, you can either give the poor 1 meal, or 1500 meals. It's a pretty easy choice when you think about it.

[Kazudo]

It does lend itself quite well to the "Fish for a man or teach a man to fish" paradox. Alternatively, with the 150 gold that the individual received from casting the spell for some adventurer, the individual could also (outside of RAW, of course) afford to bring in a skilled worker to train said hobo in a craft so that the hobo could make HIS OWN money to buy HIS OWN food.

EDIT: Or, should said hobo already have a craft but be otherwise unable to take advantage of it, that 150 gold would buy many raw materials so that the hobo could have a head start on a future potentially opening his own business.

[BWR]

Demand does. A 3rd level cleric has about 5 spells per day, total.

Limited availability does not mean something cannot be given for free. Also, limited availability does not mean it is always in demand.
Your average village isn't going to see serious injuries requiring magical healing on a monthly basis, much less a daily one.

[Bullet06320]

it would also depend on what god the cleric serves, and the dogma of his church
a god of knowledge might demand sum form of information or a writings for services in lieu of cash
a god of agriculture or the harvest would probly concentrate spells on ensuring the community has a good harvest
a merchant god would require payment
a god of luck might have his clergy flip a coin to see if they receive healing, or weather they have to pay

[HighWater]

Limited availability does not mean something cannot be given for free. Also, limited availability does not mean it is always in demand.
Your average village isn't going to see serious injuries requiring magical healing on a monthly basis, much less a daily one.
Uhm, yes they are. Those villagers have to go outside of the walls (if the village even has walls) to tend to their fields (it's been established that the cleric can't create enough food). Being outside of the walls, they are bound to run into wildlife pretty often. Have you seen the monster manual(s)? There's a metric tonne of lower than 1CR critters that stand an excellent chance of maiming a commoner, if not just outright killing them! And we're not even talking about higher CR threats. In short, as I already stated before: sure, low-level healing seems to alleviate some of the problems our medieval ancestors faced. In return they get massively dangerous wildlife, magical wildlife, magical diseases and poisons, competing and hostile sentient races... And to top it all off, they stand a very serious chance of losing a fight to the death against a housecat.

I don't think the DnD world is safer thanks to magic, really.

[Gemini476]

There are a few things that always come up in "Craft lets commoners make more than 1sp/day!" threads, and one of them is taxes.
Let me quote what the DMG has to say on the issue.

Taxes and Tithes
Taxes paid to the queen, the emperor, or the local baroness might
consume as much as one-fifth of a character’s wealth (although
these expenses can vary considerably from land to land).
Representatives of the government usually collect taxes yearly,
biannually, or quarterly. Of course, as travelers, adventurers might avoid
most collection periods (and so you can ignore taxes for the PCs if
you want). Those who own land or a residence may find themselves
assessed and taxed, however.
Tithes are paid to the church by those who are faithful participants
in a religion. Tithes often amount to as much as one-tenth of a
character’s adventuring earnings, but collection is voluntary except in
strict, oppressive religions that have their own tithe collectors. Such
onerous religious taxation requires the support of the government.
So a maximum of 30% lost to tithes and taxes.
Poor food is 1sp/day (notably exactly what untrained laborers earn!) If you want to eat a poor meal every day in the Dark Empire of Oppression, you need to earn 15cp/day, or 1gp/week. If you have exactly one rank in a Profession skill, the minimum amount you make each week is 1gp. Maybe it's a coincidence, but who knows.
Incidentally, the Profession skill gives us this little tidbit:

Untrained:Untrained laborers and assistants (that is, characters
without any ranks in Profession) earn an average of 1 silver piece per
day.

For something more relevant to the topic at hand: the Demographics tables in the DMG (p.137) identify a town with 1,000 people as a "small town". A small town has a +0 modifier to the levels of the locals with the highest levels. The highest-level Cleric will be level 1d6 (with two more of half his level, and do the same for them), the highest-level Adept will be 1d6, and the highest-level Druid will be 1d6 as well. If you have a 3rd-level Cleric, there will be two 1st-level Clerics as well.

Assuming that the Clerics all have 15 Wis from their Elite Array, they will together have 10 0th level spells, 10 1st level spells, and 3 2nd level spells. The Druids will (if the highest is level 3) have 10 0th, 7 1st and 2 2nd, and the Adepts will have a lot because 0,5% of all NPC-classed characters are Adepts, which means roundabout 7 or so 1st level Adepts and 1 3rd, so ~24 0th, and ~9 1st. Note how Cure Minor Wounds is a cantrip for all three classes.

For the OP's question regarding diseases, do note that Remove Disease is a 3rd level spell, as is Create Food and Water.
Besides, even with all those casters that's still just ~13 out of 1,000 people. And the Monster Manuals make everything quite dangerous for your average 2hp commoner - like cats, for instance, much less a bear. Or a dragon. Or you know how Lich's have that ability to scare everything below 5HD? Yeah. The D&D world is more dangerous than our medieval era, albeit in a different way. You've just traded dying from the flu to dying from ghosts or angry wizards or a dragon feeling peckish or a cat deciding that it's time for La Révolution.

[Harrow]

Another important thing to remember is that PCs pay entirely too much for everything. Yes, one day's worth of poor meals does cost 1 silver, if you're buying it from a tavern. If you buy raw goods and make meals yourself, it's significantly cheaper. After all, it's only 2 copper for either a chicken or a pound of flour.

[Venom3053000]

this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?232822-The-Commoner-Handbook) is good for towns

[Seharvepernfan]

If a village with a thousand members has a level 3 cleric as their leader, will any of them stay hurt for more than a day, go hungry and so on, like ever? Alright, he might not be able to remove disease, but I sort of feel like the power of a PC class such as a wizard or a cleric, even when low level, is high enough to make at least a significant portion of problems that we had in our world during the medieval era obsolete.

A leveled cleric in a small village could alleviate many of the problems that such a village would have in real-life, yes. If he were good aligned, he might very well do it for free for those who can't easily pay (I would). However, there are evil clerics, and neutral clerics who disagree with you. Good clerics outnumber evil clerics, but like real-life psychopaths, the damage they deal to the world is far greater than what you might expect from their relatively low-numbers, and that's just clerics. A D&D world is full of creatures and magic-wielding people and disasters that real-life never had, so a cleric's work is cut out for him. Also, a cleric is expected to be using his abilities to their best effect; a good cleric sitting around healing injured commoners is a good cleric not healing champions during important battles, or one not divining/counteracting the plots of evil beings.

So, commoners are just gonna have to rely on the heal skill, like in real-life, with a few exceptions.

With other classes, it's kinda the same. Using the DMG guidelines, I made a small town once that had an 11th level rogue in it. According to the legend lore spell, that means he is "legendary". I made him an ex-spy for the king who still sends information that comes through that village to the king (he was an excellent spy and an important figure in his day, though most people never knew what he looked like or what his real name was). When trouble pops up, he lets the right people know, and sometimes intervenes in subtle sneaky ways, but he's an old man and isn't gonna go TWF face-stab some orc barbarian (if he even can anymore, what with his old-age penalties to dexterity, or if he even could in the first place, since he started with the average array), though he might shank one of the scouts or a lone straggler when they attack the town. In that town, he's just an old guy who might get by with craft/profession/perform; nobody knows he is a rogue, 11th level, or in possession of magic items.

An 8th level fighter is probably a lord's champion, and so rarely leaves his side, or a highly-paid mercenary who spends most of his time on the road or in foreign battles (and usually in some sort of "black ops" role; not as a rank-and-file soldier). He's not gonna just be sitting around in his house waiting for some monster to come roaming through; or worse yet, as some bartender (I don't know how many leveled-fighter bartenders I've seen in D&D material).

My point is, if someone is highly-skilled or otherwise capable, they got that way by using their abilities and training hard, so they're probably gonna be invested in something in one way or another, and thus not just sitting around in a village. If they are sitting around in some village, their ought to be a reason (old age, low-stats and a build designed for something mundane like blacksmithing and therefor not being hero level despite being a "6th level fighter", guarding some important item or place and trying to lay low hile doing so, or maybe they're just straight up cowardly); there's tons of room for highly-motivated PC adventurers, with their freedom, high-stats, and strong builds to come along and do all the hard and dangerous work.

[Slipperychicken]

Another important thing to remember is that PCs pay entirely too much for everything. Yes, one day's worth of poor meals does cost 1 silver, if you're buying it from a tavern. If you buy raw goods and make meals yourself, it's significantly cheaper. After all, it's only 2 copper for either a chicken or a pound of flour.

Well, yeah, but even if your 5th level Cleric wants to cook meals and wash dishes all day (in addition to his normal fundraising and clerical duties), he still needs to pay for the equipment and facilities somehow. If your cleric has better things to do with his time, then he needs to pay for skilled labor as well.

[The Insanity]

Just make self-reseting traps of Cure Minor Wounds and Create Food and Water.

[Slipperychicken]

Just make self-reseting traps of Cure Minor Wounds and Create Food and Water.

Might as well ring up Pazuzu while we're at it.

[Summerstorm]

There are some unfortunate ethical implications there though.

A cleric who went around healing and feeding people for free would have a line around the block every day of people looking for help, which is exactly what one would expect to see if a town had a miracle worker. There would be pilgrimages from the around the region to see him and be healed. Once people figure out that he only has 5 uses/day, there would be fights and begging and prostitution and whatnot to get in the front of the line. The cleric would then have to post guards at the line to tamp down that kind of thing, and he'd still have local lords demanding a spot at the front of the line, and other less scrupulous types possibly even trying to capture or extort him.

The alternative to that is what the books say, 10gp per cast, which rations cleric services according to who has money. It keeps the peace more easily, I guess, but I don't see how you keep a good alignment in that scenario. A 3rd level cleric who begrudges a cure light wounds to the mortally wounded or a create food and water to the starving because they can't cough up 10gp, when it costs him nothing at all and he gets several per day, has a heart of stone.

Yeah, i once played a good cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor - Healbot (But in a different setting, different super-nice sun-god) and i had a HUGE problem with that.

My Character was ranting against the state religion (also lawful-good tending lawful neutral) for daring to get paid for casting. He himself, when not keeping the group alive and kicking ran to the small shrine his religion had in the city and dispensed all his slots before dawn for free. He pretty much got the superman complex (desparation because you COULD DO MORE) and every spell he had left at the end of the day was a failure. He does get those spells for a REASON, he thought. You have to use them.

Which is what i am thinking: I do not fault good Healers, Adepts, Paladins and Clerics for not going insane and hunting opportunities to do good. But if someone knocks on your door and pleads for help... you better not try to squeeze money out of them.

[RedMage125]

This is why I treat PC class NPCs as rare as diamonds.

That town healer? He's either a priest with knowledge in alchemy and botany, or a venerable mystic with only a few spells in his repertoire, and perhaps a scroll or two.

The town witch? the villagers put her that nose and clothes, but she did turn the village idiot into a newt.

The city guard? Warriors.

Etc, etc...
I like this. It's what Eberron did. Most "Priests" are either Experts with ranks in Knowledge (religion), maybe Heal, maybe some social skills. If you're lucky, they're Adepts.

But either way, in Eberron, even if there is a cleric in attendance, you don't go to a temple looking to buy healing. The miracles of their faith are not commodities to be bought and sold.

Of course, Eberron has House Jorasco to fill that niche. A cleric in the employ of a House Jorasco enclave has no problem selling his divine gifts.


It does lend itself quite well to the "Fish for a man or teach a man to fish" paradox.
That's not a paradox, btw. It's a proverb.

And I prefer the one in my sig ;)

[Slipperychicken]

If you've played with PC Clerics, you probably know exactly how greedy and cutthroat these people can be while maintaining Good alignments. They're often more than willing to burglarize tombs, strip their enemies' still-warm corpses of all valuable objects (often without the slightest thought given to their burial, or even their next of kin!), or even engage in outright banditry: sacking houses or healing known criminals and murderers in exchange for a share of the loot. Needless to say, hawking their spells in the market square is hardly beneath them.

[Coidzor]

Aside from being assaulted by another person within the community or attacked by a monster/raider from outside the community, the most likely cause of damage would be falling from 10 feet or higher (such as if one were, say, working on the upper level of a barn or thatching the roof of a hut or the like) followed by accidents with animals bucking or biting or kicking due to getting scared or the like?

Though getting nipped by a dog is different from the dog trying to hamstring someone...

I don't see much chance of acquiring damage that wasn't either immediately lethal from someone/something assaulting someone to kill them or nonlethal damage which they'll recover from by "sleeping it off" after a couple of hours aside from falling where there's a 1/3 chance even for a Max HP Con 10 Commoner 1 for them to be left bleeding out at negative HP and a 5/6 chance for a minimum HP Con 10(or less) Commoner 1 to be put into negatives.

I don't recall the math for figuring out the likelihood that a commoner will stabilize given a range of starting from -1 to -5. I can figure out the likelihood that they'll die, I suppose,(90% or .9 to the power of however many chances to stabilize that would be failed until death) and subtract that from 100%? That would give ~61% for starting at -1 and ~41% for starting at -5, though I'm sure I'm forgetting a much more elegant and accurate way of determining it.

Of course to intervene, help would have to arrive in less than 30 seconds for the worst case scenario of a 10' drop. 20' could kill the 1 hp commoner outright, 30' could kill the 4 hp commoner outright and the 1 hp commoner with average damage, and 50' would always drop the 4 hp commoner into negatives and would kill them outright with average damage. So around 40-50 feet one'd be able to assume fatalities.


But either way, in Eberron, even if there is a cleric in attendance, you don't go to a temple looking to buy healing. The miracles of their faith are not commodities to be bought and sold.

Though part of that is also because they know that they'd be killed for being scabs by assassins hired by House Jorasco. :smallwink:

[Gemini476]

I don't recall the math for figuring out the likelihood that a commoner will stabilize given a range of starting from -1 to -5. I can figure out the likelihood that they'll die, I suppose,(90% or .9 to the power of however many chances to stabilize that would be failed until death) and subtract that from 100%? That would give ~61% for starting at -1 and 41% for starting at -5, though I'm sure I'm forgetting a much more elegant and accurate way of determining it.

Well, let's do some math then.

The chance of stabilizing each round is 10%, and you can survive for N rounds where N=9+starting HP (and starting HP is <0).
To find out the chance of doing something, look at the chance of not doing something. In other words, look at the chance of you not stabilizing by turn N.
That's 90%^N, by the way.



Turn
% of not stabilizing


1
90%


2
81%


3
72.9%


4
65.61%


5
59.05%


6
53.14%


7
47.83%


8
43.05%


9
38.74%



Conversely, here's the chance of stabilizing:


Turn
% of stabilizing


1
10%


2
19%


3
27.1%


4
35.39%


5
40.95%


6
46.86%


7
52.17%


8
56.95%


9
61.26%



So let's take Joe Carpenter the Commoner 1. He's a perfectly average guy with 2hp, and he's just fallen 10ft off his ladder onto the hard, unyielding ground. He takes 1d6 damage, meaning that there are a few possibilities:
There's a 1/6th chance that he'll walk it off, and another 1/6th that he'll be knocked unconscious but survive.
For the other 4/6th he'll be left somewhere between -1 and -4, meaning that he'll have between 61.26% and 46.86% chance of stabilizing. Assuming that no-one heard him fall and administered a DC 15 Healing check, that is.
All in all, he has roughly 70% chance of surviving that fall.

However, becoming stable is only the beginning. If no-one is around to help him he now makes hourly checks to wake up, and if he misses that 10% chance of consciousness then he loses another point of HP. If he wakes up he then needs to make daily checks before he starts to regain HP again, with the same percentages and consequences for failure.

Lesson of the day: if you're a Commoner, put some cross-class points into Heal. It'll save lives.