Abjurant champion: extended, extended abjuration?

[Hiro Quester]

Can one apply the "extend" metamagic to spells that are already doubled in duration by the "Extended Abjuration" class ability of the Abjurant Champion?

Can one cast a persistent abjuration and get 48 hour duration?


Extended Abjuration (Su): You depend on your abjuration spells to protect you in combat. Double the duration of abjuration spells you cast, as if you had applied the Extend Spell feat to them (but without any change in level or casting time).

The "as if" seems to imply that it's not actually already having the Extend spell metamagic feat applied.

(I'm playing a bard/SC who has extend and persist, and is meleeing well. Taking a few levels of Abj. Champ. abilities might be very useful, esp. if these can be done.)

[HighWater]

Can one apply the "extend" metamagic to spells that are already doubled in duration by the "Extended Abjuration" class ability of the Abjurant Champion?
I don't think you can. It seems to me that you need to treat the spell "as if" Extend Spell has been applied, which means you can't apply Extend Spell again as you can apply the same metamagic feat only once. I think the writers probably meant that you are applying Extend Spell to all your abjuration spells. Compare with the Quicken Abjuration ability which explicitly calls out "the maximum level of spell you can quicken", while having the same "as if" clause.

However, I can see where you're coming from with this, as your interpretation is also possible. Ask your DM.


Can one cast a persistent abjuration and get 48 hour duration?
A bit difficult. Extend and Persist don't have the explicit "don't benefit eachother"-clause that Maximise and Empower have. In which case you may be able to apply the MM feats in the order you wish, leading to 48 hour activity. That said, I could understand a DM calling Max/Emp-precedent and applying the same to Extend/Persisted to prevent players using a high level slot on "rest day" and then having a high level Persisted spell active on the adventuring day the day after for free.
A second objection may be that when you cast a spell, apply persisted and then extend, you may get up to 48 hours, but your DM may argue that with Extend being a (su) ability of yours, it is always applied first (doubling the duration) after which Persisted spell overwrites the new duration with Duration: 24 hours.

Basically, ask your DM. This highly depends on highop/cheese-tolerance of your particular DM and if they feel they have to restrict these kind of contructions.

[Fidilarfiin]

Are you trying to manipulate arcane spell surge? or just get really long buffs?

[AvatarVecna]

Can one apply the "extend" metamagic to spells that are already doubled in duration by the "Extended Abjuration" class ability of the Abjurant Champion?

Can one cast a persistent abjuration and get 48 hour duration?



The "as if" seems to imply that it's not actually already having the Extend spell metamagic feat applied.

(I'm playing a bard/SC who has extend and persist, and is meleeing well. Taking a few levels of Abj. Champ. abilities might be very useful, esp. if these can be done.)

The general rule for metamagic is that no particular metamagic feat can be applied to the same casting of a spell more than once, and nothing in the Abjurant Champion description changes that. In order to bypass the general rule, you need a specific rule that trumps it, such as the exception listed in the "Extended Summoning" class feature of the Thaumaturgist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/thaumaturgist.htm) or the "Extended Illusion" class feature of the Shadowcraft Mage, which both have a line to the effect of "you can stack this with Extend Spell, although you still have to pay normal cost for that one".

EDIT: Oh, I see why I didn't see this around earlier today: TPAM necro'd the thread.