PDA

View Full Version : Optimization Breaking the action economy in half, druid style.



eggynack
2014-05-24, 03:30 AM
So, I was digging through every book ever printed in relation to this great game of ours, searching for aberrations to use in conjunction with aberrant wild shape (also fey, plants, humanoids, and occasionally vermin and dragons, to use with other stuff), when I found the most fantastic little creature tucked away. Right there, hanging out on page 67 of unapproachable east, was the nilshai. Amongst its abilities, writ large and proud, was fearsome celerity, an extraordinary ability that grants an extra standard action (actually partial action) every round. Moreover, it's a standard action that can be explicitly used for spell casting.

"Holy crap," I said, reading the ability several more times. I checked the errata, and there was none. I checked whether there was some variety of 3.5 update, and if it exists, then I've yet to find it. I even checked the 3.0 PHB, to make sure that partial action meant what I thought it meant, and it very much did. You just take the two feats necessary to wild shape into an aberration, cast enhance wild shape, and there it is, two spells every round, starting the level you take aberrant wild shape (presumably at 9th).

Thus, I believe one of the big druid questions, "How do I break the action economy as a druid without taking something clearly broken like planar shepherd or assume supernatural ability?" has been answered. I come now to you in hopes of either spreading the word from shore to shore, or to find that my game breaking discovery has already been either discredited or discovered. In conclusion, utter ridiculousness ahoy.

Tvtyrant
2014-05-24, 04:01 AM
I believe that Partial Actions are transferred into standard actions, so it does seem to work. The only direct conversion appears in the alacrity update for the Mithral Golem, which gained a partial action before and now gets a standard action.

That having been said, while the Nilshai's ability is awesome its stats are horrid. SoD/S will butcher a character with 10 con at level 15.

eggynack
2014-05-24, 04:07 AM
That having been said, while the Nilshai's ability is awesome its stats are horrid. SoD/S will butcher a character with 10 con at level 15.
That one aspect isn't the best, though the flight speed is very nice, and the AC is about average. I wouldn't call the nilshai's stats great, but I don't think they're horrible either.

Gemini476
2014-05-24, 04:08 AM
So 3.0-style haste, huh? Do note that that's a pretty obvious change to be made if the critter is to be used in a 3.5 game.
Then again, if it gets through unchanged then who needs Assume Supernatural Ability for the Choker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/choker.htm)?

Then again, you're just doing what the Wizard could be doing at the same level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327).

eggynack
2014-05-24, 04:19 AM
So 3.0-style haste, huh? Do note that that's a pretty obvious change to be made if the critter is to be used in a 3.5 game.
Eh, maybe. I mean, the monster was actually directly referenced, unapproachable east and all, by the 3.5 book lords of madness on page 14, so that seems to be something of a tacit endorsement of the current stat block. It also helps that the ability never directly references haste, even if it may do so indirectly.

Then again, if it gets through unchanged then who needs Assume Supernatural Ability for the Choker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/choker.htm)?
Indeed so, especially because the choker was apparently updated in the premium edition of the monster manual without its signature ability.

Then again, you're just doing what the Wizard could be doing at the same level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327).
What's the same level here? I'm thinking about this for level 9, with aberrant blood as one of the first two feats, and enhance wild shape accessible at level 7. We're also not sacrificing nearly as much for the privilege. I don't doubt for one second that this is a thing that wizards can pull off, but I've doubted for a lot of seconds that it's something druids can pull off (without serious cheese).

shadowseve
2014-05-24, 05:13 AM
Interesting find. I knew you said you were warming up to Aberration wild shape and this is def nice. If my druid hadn't died then I would have def had cause to take the two feats for this.

eggynack
2014-05-24, 05:26 AM
Interesting find. I knew you said you were warming up to Aberration wild shape and this is def nice. If my druid hadn't died then I would have def had cause to take the two feats for this.
Yeah, it's been a long and mostly uninteresting search, but this probably makes that worth it. I mean, I did find some somewhat interesting things, like dolgaunt (ECS, 281) for 360 ft. blindsight, kython (BoVD, 178) for somewhat ambiguous perfect access to the ability to turn etherealness on and off as a free action each round (there is technically a high chance that you don't get that weapon as a kython, but you might be able to become a kython that just has the weapon you want), and various things for the other monster types I was looking for, but this one likely singlehandedly bumps aberrant wild shape to the top of the form adder feat list, even with the unfortunate feat tax.

shadowseve
2014-05-24, 05:31 AM
Yeah, it's been a long and mostly uninteresting search, but this probably makes that worth it. I mean, I did find some somewhat interesting things, like dolgaunt (ECS, 281) for 360 ft. blindsight, kython (BoVD, 178) for somewhat ambiguous perfect access to the ability to turn etherealness on and off as a free action each round (there is technically a high chance that you don't get that weapon as a kython, but you might be able to become a kython that just has the weapon you want), and various things for the other monster types I was looking for, but this one likely singlehandedly bumps aberrant wild shape to the top of the form adder feat list, even with the unfortunate feat tax.

I agree 100%. I was always a bit leery of aberration due to the feat tax but the ability to have two standard actions is gravy. I'll miss my druid. lol

Darrin
2014-05-24, 10:59 AM
I checked whether there was some variety of 3.5 update, and if it exists, then I've yet to find it.


Although WotC says there was a 3.5 update for Unapproachable East, the file on this page links to the errata (the entirely of which removes a single sentence from the Uthraki entry). I'm not sure this is the same thing as a 3.5 update, but it was issued in 2006, 3 years after 3.5 came out, so we can assume that from an official standpoint, this is all the "update" that WotC felt was necessary. At any rate, WotC says it was a 3.5 update, so Unapproachable East is a 3.5 source as far as they are concerned.

Nilshai: Nice find. The +4 racial bonus to UMD is also quite nifty.

Something else in UE that might be useful... the Orglash is a medium-sized elemental that can be summoned via SNAIV. It has cone of cold as an SLA 3x/day, which means druids can get it before wizards. (I used an orglash in a campaign to help a low-level party get through a prismatic sphere, which requires cone of cold to take down the red layer.) There's also the Thomil, another medium-sized elemental, but it doesn't have any interesting SLAs... but it does have Engulf (Ex).

Hmm... looking for unusual aberrations...

Lurker Above (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20020719a). Levitate (Ex). Ho-hum.
Gut Puppet (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20011215a). Wow. Epic squickness.
Mindstealer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20030727a). Hmm. Create Drones (Ex) at 20th level.

Something else I've been noodling around... have you done anything with the fey ring (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a) spell? I want to say it's planar binding/calling for treehuggers, which is kind of an area of weakness for druids, as they don't have easy access to infinite wish abuse. I was thinking fey ring might be the solution to this, but I haven't done a really in-depth look at what SLAs fey might have access to. I'm not even sure if there are any fey with access to wish. But it might be nice to have a guide to what you could summon via this spell.

eggynack
2014-05-24, 11:43 AM
Something else I've been noodling around... have you done anything with the fey ring (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a) spell? I want to say it's planar binding/calling for treehuggers, which is kind of an area of weakness for druids, as they don't have easy access to infinite wish abuse. I was thinking fey ring might be the solution to this, but I haven't done a really in-depth look at what SLAs fey might have access to. I'm not even sure if there are any fey with access to wish. But it might be nice to have a guide to what you could summon via this spell.
I've been working on it, though I've yet to find something great. I've mostly been looking for good SLA's, such as the bajang (OA, 145) for divination 3/day, the hkum yeng nat (OA, 175), which runs at will dispel magic, fireball, and SNA III (snakes only), or possibly my favorite, gloura (Underdark, 88), with 7th level bard casting. It's some pretty nifty stuff.