HELP! Looking for something...

[Xar Zarath]

hey guys I need some help. I read some homebrew or 3rd party sourcebook (its most likely the 3rd party) where they described a sort of brotherhood of redeemed fiends led by a redeemed balor, who fight to redeem others of their kind alongside angels and such...

Wondering if anyone else read a sourcebook such as that before?

[atomicwaffle]

that's kind of impossible for 2 reasons

1. Fiends (devils) and balors (demons) are the literal physical incarnation of evil. Evil in D&D is not relative or subjective, there are absolutes, and demons/devils are them. If a demon or devil is 'redeemed' it ceases being evil and ceases to exist. You can't redeem them in the same sense you can't redeem a rock for being a rock.

2. The Blood War. Devils would NEVER accept the rule of a demon (or vise versa). They have been at war with each since before the dawn of time. EVEN IF THEORETICALLY (in a realm beyond absurdity) a demon and a devil got redeemed and didn't die, they still wouldn't work with other out of splain and simple mistrust.

You're looking at pure homebrew my friend. Or, if such a book actually did exist, the author was an ignorant moron and it shouldn't be worth the paper it's printed on.

[Inevitability]

that's kind of impossible for 2 reasons

1. Fiends (devils) and balors (demons) are the literal physical incarnation of evil. Evil in D&D is not relative or subjective, there are absolutes, and demons/devils are them. If a demon or devil is 'redeemed' it ceases being evil and ceases to exist. You can't redeem them in the same sense you can't redeem a rock for being a rock.

2. The Blood War. Devils would NEVER accept the rule of a demon (or vise versa). They have been at war with each since before the dawn of time. EVEN IF THEORETICALLY (in a realm beyond absurdity) a demon and a devil got redeemed and didn't die, they still wouldn't work with other out of splain and simple mistrust.

You're looking at pure homebrew my friend. Or, if such a book actually did exist, the author was an ignorant moron and it shouldn't be worth the paper it's printed on.


Not wanting to turn this in an alignment thread, but you aren't right.

WOTC has shown that devils and demons can be redeemed (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a). In more than one way (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/sanctify-the-wicked--93/), in fact (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Helm_of_Opposite_Alignment). It is possible. (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/mindrape--165/)

Also, common sense. Fallen angels are present in most campaigns, so why not risen devils/demons?

EDIT: And just found yet another way. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#balance)

[atomicwaffle]

Not wanting to turn this in an alignment thread, but you aren't right.

WOTC has shown that devils and demons can be redeemed (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a). In more than one way (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/sanctify-the-wicked--93/), in fact (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Helm_of_Opposite_Alignment). It is possible. (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/mindrape--165/)

Also, common sense. Fallen angels are present in most campaigns, so why not risen devils/demons?

EDIT: And just found yet another way. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#balance)

WOW.:smalleek::smallsigh:

[HalfQuart]

Not sure if this is quite what you're looking for, but there's also the Hellbred race from Fiendish Codex II.

[Xar Zarath]

Thanks for the responses but its not quite what I was looking for.

I only recall some minor details like the priest who caught the balor in a Trap the Soul spell, placing on his god's altar then using some miracle spell or something like that.

The redeemed balor had a redeemed marilith commander or somesuch.

It was most like 3rd party sourcebook.

[HalfQuart]

You might try Green Ronin; they did a series of books on fiendish and celestial creatures: Legions of Hell, Armies of the Abyss, Hordes of Ghenna, Avatar's Handbook... and maybe more? I don't own any of them, but I think they were 3.0.

[RedMage125]

atomicwaffle, Die Stirge already ran your post through the ringer with examples, but even just looking at your core books you will find what happens to a redeemed fiend.

An Outsider with the Evil subtype who ceases to be Evil retains the Evil subtype. This means that a LG Succubus Paladin still pings on Detect Evil, will take damage from Holy Smite as if she were evil (incidentally, since she LG, she'll also take damage from Unholy Blight), and so on. And when she dies, the energies of her body will return to the Abyss and make a new succubus. One who will probably be CE.

Savage Species introduced us to rituals that an outsider can use to change their subtype. That LG succubus paladin could undergo one to remove the (Evil) subtype, and thus no longer count as Evil for all those spells. Interestingly, if she also undergoes the ritual to attain the (Good) subtype, then when she dies, her body's energy will return to one of the upper planes and make some form of celestial.

But I don't know who told you that as soon as a fiend is redeemed it "gets destroyed". You definitely did not read that in a book, so someone either pulled one over on you, or that was a houserule and you didn't realize it. Granted, if other fiends find out about the redeemed one, they'll probably try and kill him/her/it.