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View Full Version : Gamer Drama When Your Players Cheat on Your Games



Jarred Stone
2014-05-25, 11:36 AM
I have been DMing for almost a year a group of close friends of mine and, always, they have been behaving in a mature and serious way when playing. This is the reason that, usually, for the sake of speeding up the sessions, I tend to believe their words on some questions instead of looking around manuals to shut up the typical Rule Lawyer who appears sometimes. Of course, there isn't always things that beneficts them and, actually, it could totally **** up their current plans. They play fair, and I am have total confidence on them.

Or, at least, that is what I thought...

Lately, I have been seeing oddities on experience points (one of the players, who don't play half of the sessions, with more experience than the others?), more skill points placed on each player and, even, using class features incorrectly (of course, in a way it beneficts them).

I am revising their sheets and, ... everything, is messed up. They have been cheating this game since level 1. I have been revising the sheets from the last campaign and they were totally honest and fair but, with this game, it seems they don't care or... ****, I don't really know.

However, some of the players (actually, only two) have been totally honest in this campaign. But, the rest... Goddamit! My trust is shattered with these guys, certainly. And I am going to need to be like a kindergarden keeper watching over some grown men so they couldn't cheat in a mere game of pretend.

"But they are having fun, DM. They are having the most fun they haven't had before." Maybe, but the honest players aren't having fun. In fact, they are the ones who see their (fair) efforts aren't enough against those guys. It is not fair, and I am not going to let them go like that.

What measures should I take, guys? My shame and dishearth is reaching the skies, mainly because are the closest of my friends/players who are cheating in front of my face just to win in a game where winning or loosing doesn't exist.

I will try to make up my mind with a cold mind but, for now, I would like to listen to your opinions (and, maybe, insults for me being so naive). I was thinking about getting some exp penalizations to some of the players, depending on how far they cheated. If you want to see how they were cheating, I would glad to post all the incongruances I am seeing on their sheets.

DM Nate
2014-05-25, 11:53 AM
A couple of things I do to avoid this problem in my games:


How confident are you that these mistakes are intentional (or, at least, are caused by lack of dutiful attention)? If they're due to sloppy bookkeeping, I personally suggest my players keep separate sheets for each level, so I can see progression of the characters and where any mistakes might have been introduced.
I also keep the actual sheets and let them make copies/take iphone photos/etc. Mostly this is cause everyone commutes to my place for my games, and it prevents them accidentally forgetting or losing their sheets. It also lets me double-check their work in my spare time.
As a house rule in my games, everyone levels at the same time, to avoid any player feeling like an underdog. That's a personal choice, but it's helped me a great deal.

Esprit15
2014-05-25, 11:54 AM
Well before you do anything rash, talk to them about your problems. Everyone misses that step, and it's one of the most important. And I mean talk, not yell, not rant, but simply talk. "Hey, , I was going over your sheet and I found this inconsistency here." Simple, non-aggressive.

As for rules issues, unless it comes up in the previous discussion, simply make a note of rules that they explained to you and look them up after the session. Maybe take some notes, or have the page tabbed for if it comes up again. Explain that you wanted to be sure on the rules, and it turned out that you all (make sure to say "we" and no "you") got the rule wrong.

De-escalate, rather than escalate the situation. Remember, it [I]is just a game, and while they don't have reason to cheat, you don't have reason to get worked up. Present things calmly first, and see how it goes.

Rhynn
2014-05-25, 02:11 PM
At the next group meeting, explain the issue to everyone. If you're not feeling particularly confrontational, don't say anyone's cheated - just explain that these characters have been run completely wrong (list the errors; too much experience, too many skill points, etc.). The other players will get it.

The reason you don't cheat at games is that it's a social activity and there's a social contract. Social contracts are enforced by the group, and shaming is the first level of enforcement. Involve the group.

In the future, you track everything you can (at least XP totals, that's hardly any work at all), and make them submit lists of what they did when they advanced a level (very simple for D&D; "raised this stat, put skill points here"), then review the sheet.

And keep an eye out for the next step of cheating: lying about results (e.g. adding +15 instead of +10 to a skill check). These can be snuck by everybody, so you have to pay attention.

Alejandro
2014-05-25, 04:49 PM
Did you change games or editions between the previous game and this one? They might be cheating due to ignorance or dislike of system.

Thrudd
2014-05-25, 05:00 PM
I would not give penalties out yet. Unless you are 100% sure they are all cheating on purpose and not just misinterpreting various rules. I'd make a non-confrontational statement that you are going to be taking more control and keeping closer track of the characters from now on. You don't need to call anyone out specifically or individually.

"I have found some inconsistencies and errors on some of the character sheets, so if you notice some numbers are changed it is because I have fixed those things according to the rules, so it is fair for everyone. Let's be more careful in the future about keeping track of skill points, etc., and make sure that abilities are being used correctly. If you have questions about anything, run it by me so we can look up the rules. I'm going to keep a copy of all the characters from now on, so everyone will be on the same page in the future and to make sure there's a backup if anything happens to your sheets. "

Knaight
2014-05-26, 01:07 PM
I'd point on the discrepancies, though I wouldn't necessarily assume cheating (though the experience totals seem particularly iffy). Some people aren't that great at math, the rules are pretty complex and can be misinterpreted, etc. Something along the lines of "These sheets are completely off, get one of the people who know and are comfortable with the game, specifically [not-cheater 1, not-cheater 2] or me to help you get these patched up. I'll also be grabbing a bit more of the math, on the basis of having way more practice with the system." could work.

veti
2014-05-26, 05:07 PM
Take a deep breath.

Remember it's only a game. If they want to cheat, there's really not a lot you can do to stop them completely. It's just not worth checking every rule, every skill, every dice roll, every time it comes up. Life is too short.

What you can do:

The simplest, and most important thing: don't let players track their own XP. You're the one awarding XP, you should be the one keeping track of it. My favourite approach is to publish the XP list as a league table after every session - get a bit of healthy competition going between players. And you tell them when they level.
Revise their sheets - you're doing that, good. Once you've corrected all the anomalies (if you're feeling generous, you could let them decide where to take the surplus points from - but only give them one chance at that, and if they blow it, do it yourself), then make a practice of collecting the character sheets at the end of every session and going through them afterwards. Make sure that what's written down is consistent with what you've given them, and check across all sheets. If they don't want to give them up, make another copy for them to keep.
(If this seems like hard work, then print out the character sheets between each session, and let the players hand-write changes during the session. This makes it really easy to see what's been changed during a session.)
Keep track of the rules questions that come up, and look them up after the session. If you got them wrong - think carefully, is what you decided a reasonable house rule? If so, then add it to the House Rules List. If not, add it to the Campaign Errata. Go through these lists with the players at the beginning of the next session - "from now on, this is how these things are going to work".


And as others have said: de-escalate. Confront, but co-operate. Of the steps I've outlined above, (1) is trivial, (2) and (3) should require no more than ten minutes per sheet between sessions. (4) requires a bit more time, but with a bit of practice you'll be able to make calls like that faster. And you'll get to know the rules better, which is always a plus.

If obscure rules are really a major issue, I cannot strongly enough recommend cutting down the number of allowed sourcebooks. The quality of an RPG is inversely proportional to the amount of shelf space it requires. Some of the most fun I've had around a gaming table is with a system whose rules, such as they are, are captured on two sides of paper.


My shame and dishearth is reaching the skies, mainly because are the closest of my friends/players who are cheating in front of my face just to win in a game where winning or loosing doesn't exist.

Yes, winning and losing don't exist - in theory. But in practice, many players will spend a lot of time thinking about themselves and their progress in exactly those terms. Completing a quest satisfactorily is "winning", failing is "losing", even if they couldn't precisely articulate whom they're competing against. (You? Each other? Doesn't really matter.)

And finally: I wouldn't recommend imposing XP penalties for cheating. Instead, give an XP bonus for honesty - say, 10% bonus on whatever the PC earns in-play. This will be factored into the totals you publish after every session, and you might mention it, but don't say who's got it after any given session (unless they ask). Naming and shaming is not the way to go.

JusticeZero
2014-05-27, 01:13 AM
If obscure rules are really a major issue, I cannot strongly enough recommend cutting down the number of allowed sourcebooks.
Unless we're talking about D&D 3/PF, anyways. I had to ban a lot of the Core classes from my table because they are either overpowered, underpowered, or plain wonky.

I also no longer have XP awarded individually, because I have a family and a life and I wouldn't want to be penalized for trying to keep them by missing the odd game here and there.

You could try putting the character sheets up on Google Docs in a spreadsheet.. That way, they can't get lost and you can track the changes.

ElenionAncalima
2014-05-27, 12:22 PM
I also no longer have XP awarded individually, because I have a family and a life and I wouldn't want to be penalized for trying to keep them by missing the odd game here and there.


I agree with this. If a player is motivated about the game, they will make sessions when they can...so getting penalized when they absolutely can't make it kind of stinks. If aren't that invested in the game, making them fall behind in XP will probably only exacerbate the problem.

Of course, this can vary from group to group. I know some groups need individual XP as a motivator.

Alejandro
2014-05-27, 08:32 PM
I cheated on D&D with WoD once, but D&D took me back.