XP Rewards

[EdRed]

Well, i've got a question about xp calculation in situations where pcs are able to defeat opponents way above their usual CR.
To give an example:

A 3rd Level Wizard is attempting to backstab some mercenaries (first level fighters) who deem him friendly or at least neutral.
He's distracting them by providing a rather large barrel of wine as if to congratulate them for their recent raid.
After crowding the area around the barrel and the Wizard casting dance of ruin.
Let's say all 30 of them end up dead.

The Wizard only needs a single spell to kill them, but the mercenaries would kill him most likely if they survived his attack.
The DMG states that pc should not be able to defeat encounters which are high above their CR, but applying a "penalty" due to creativity doesn't really seem fit either.

How would evaluate this example or similiar situations in your own games; Would you adjust the CR and therefore the XP reward?

[Dalasio]

Well, the Dance of Ruin would kill him aswell..

[sideswipe]

i believe that the CR of the fight is calculated as a single to see how challenging it is. but each trap/enemy/thing defeated gives experience as a single thing. so he would get 30xCR1 experience.

that is my understanding of it.

[Adam...?]

RAW, 30 CR1 monsters makes an EL10 encounter, which would give a single 3rd level character 9000 XP. I'm pretty sure the rules say you can't go up more than two levels from a single encounter, so the wizard should end up with 9,999 XP total, putting just under 5th level.

Practically speaking, it's widely accepted that EL calculations break down when considering large numbers of weak enemies, especially if the PCs have access to area of effect attacks. Since this battle involved to some clever plotting on the part of the player, and there was actually some risk involved (imagine if he didn't roll enough to damage to kill them!), I think it would be fair to award him equivalent experience for defeating a challenging encounter solo. I'd call it roughly EL5, so the wizard gets 1800 XP.

[EdRed]

Well, the Dance of Ruin would kill him aswell..
I guess a 3rd Level Wizard could actually survive the amount of damage it takes to kill a first level Fighter; even if just by a small margin.
I'd like to assume for sake of the consideration that he rolled well enough to kill the mercs but survived himself or cast false life in preparation.
It's not about the specific example but rather the generell idea of using creative methods to overcome larger CR encounters.


i believe that the CR of the fight is calculated as a single to see how challenging it is. but each trap/enemy/thing defeated gives experience as a single thing. so he would get 30xCR1 experience.

that is my understanding of it.


RAW, 30 CR1 monsters makes an EL10 encounter, which would give a single 3rd level character 9000 XP. I'm pretty sure the rules say you can't go up more than two levels from a single encounter, so the wizard should end up with 9,999 XP total, putting just under 5th level.

Practically speaking, it's widely accepted that EL calculations break down when considering large numbers of weak enemies, especially if the PCs have access to area of effect attacks. Since this battle involved to some clever plotting on the part of the player, and there was actually some risk involved (imagine if he didn't roll enough to damage to kill them!), I think it would be fair to award him equivalent experience for defeating a challenging encounter solo. I'd call it roughly EL5, so the wizard gets 1800 XP.

Thanks for your input,
i guess the raw amount of xp would in fact be a rather big leap in terms of level advancement.
EL 5 seems indeed pretty fair; Still a solid portion of the xp needed for level 4.

[Adverb]

I think your approach to this depends on whether you see XP as points relating to actual experiences had by the PC, or whether you see it as your murderhobo score.

[Bronk]

In DnD 3.5, a PC class's CR is equal to their level. In addition, for the same type of foe, every doubling of their numbers increases the CR by 2. Going by that, you'd have an encounter of almost CR10, almost CR11. However, you could use the circumstance rules from the DMG p39, ruling that the encounter was half as difficult than normal and therefore award half as much XP, or significantly less difficult (2/3 the XP) since they weren't fighting... it sounds like the wizard just killed a bunch of friendly people out of the blue.

[ChocoSuisse]

Basing XP on the number of things you kill is not a good thing.

Did the player played well?
Did the character accomplish something great?
Do you want the character to level up quickly or not?

Those are the parameters you should take in account when you give xp to your players.