Classes that like charisma [3.5]

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys. So, I've dumped charisma one two many times. It seems that every character I make has a negative modifier to charisma. So I want to play a character that uses it. I don't want to play sorcerer or bard (just to make it difficult) and I was wondering if you guys had any ideas as to what would be fun to play. Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

[sideswipe]

favoured soul.

if not then an iaijitsu build and go iaijitsu master

say you can get your iaijitsu focus skill to get +9d6 damage on each hit. and your an iaijitsu master with a modest +5 charisma.
you will get, weapon damage+str+other bonuses+9d6+45 damage before power attacks as you add charisma to each d6 you roll from the skill.

if you are unfamiliar with iaijitsu focus. its a skill in OA that the OA samurai and sohei get.
essentially when you draw your weapon and attack a flat footed opponent in the same turn you make an iaijitsu skill check for bonus damage in the form of d6's.

[Alex12]

Dread Necromancers and Warmages both key off Charisma, Dread Necros to the point that it's pretty much the only stat they have to worry about (at least if they go Necropolitan).
Favored Souls are divine Cha-casters.
Hexblades
Crusaders and Paladins like having a high Cha, though it's not critical.
Jesters and Sha'ir from Dragon Compendium are both Cha-based to different degrees.

What sort of things are you looking for aside from liking Charisma?

[Teapot Salty]

Dread Necromancers and Warmages both key off Charisma, Dread Necros to the point that it's pretty much the only stat they have to worry about (at least if they go Necropolitan).
Favored Souls are divine Cha-casters.
Hexblades
Crusaders and Paladins like having a high Cha, though it's not critical.
Jesters and Sha'ir from Dragon Compendium are both Cha-based to different degrees.

What sort of things are you looking for aside from liking Charisma?

Ideally martial classes, though I'll look into the others that you mentioned.

[WhamBamSam]

Binders are pretty cool. They're also good faces and enforce a lot of active roleplaying, but can fit into any role you want. That'd be my recommendation.

There are a bunch of other caster types beyond Sorcerers and Bards that are Cha focused. Dread Necromancer, Wilder, and Sha'ir spring to mind.

There are a few decent dips that involve Cha synergy. Battle Dancer 1 is basically a chaotic Monk dip but without the non-IUS bonus feat, full BAB, and Cha to AC instead of Wis. Marshal 1 gives you a Cha based Aura (a favorite is Motivate Charisma to add your Cha mod to Cha based skill checks, including your own, so the Cha based fun has been doubled). Paladin 2 adds Cha to saves. Crusaders add Cha to Will saves and have Cha based save DCs for a few maneuvers.

If you have an ability with a Con based DC (like a Breath Weapon or a Poison) you can make it Cha based instead by becoming Undead.

[ngilop]

half orc paladin going into the racial paragon classes pick up imperious command and the never outnumbered skilltrick

and pick up the skulker flaw and pick up the abrasice trait

POW now you can be super awesome at intimidation ( I think this nets you like a +9 or thereabuts to inimtiade before skill ranks or skill focus or items)

[Alex12]

Ideally martial classes, though I'll look into the others that you mentioned.
Well, Jester's pretty similar to Bard, though not identical (and has less support, though it might be possible to convince your DM to just let you cast off the Bard list)
Sha'ir, Warmage, Dread Necromancer, and Favored Soul are all full casters.
Crusader is a ToB class, and they're all pretty hard to play badly (Stone Power is your friend)
There's also Marshal, but I wouldn't recommend that one.


If you have an ability with a Con based DC (like a Breath Weapon or a Poison) you can make it Cha based instead by becoming Undead.
While true in Pathfinder, this is not actually the case in 3.5 per RAW (though it's a reasonable houserule). Per RAW, however, the only thing that re-keys from Con to Charisma are Concentration checks.

[Gildedragon]

Binder can be awesome.
Focus on Naberius to be Super Slick; deep gravely super sexy convincing voice...

[WhamBamSam]

While true in Pathfinder, this is not actually the case in 3.5 per RAW (though it's a reasonable houserule). Per RAW, however, the only thing that re-keys from Con to Charisma are Concentration checks.Actually, it is. It's tucked away in a section on creating monsters, but there is a written rule on the point.

Also use Charisma for any DC that normally would be based on an ability score that the creature does not have. For example, Undead creatures have not Constitution score, so any poison attacks they have would use Charisma to determine the save DC.

[Alex12]

Actually, it is. It's tucked away in a section on creating monsters, but there is a written rule on the point.

Huh. Nice find. I did not realize that and never would have found that on my own. Thank you.:smallsmile:

[Gemini476]

While the Warlock doesn't need any abilities to be good, it really likes Charisma.

Marshals also love Charisma and share that love to the party, although I don't really know how good the class is in and of itself.

There are also some other classes that have Charisma as a secondary/tertiary stat, like the Cleric and Truenamer. They aren't particularly useful for what you're looking for, but yea

[Gildedragon]

There are also some other classes that have Charisma as a secondary/tertiary stat, like the Cleric and Truenamer. They aren't particularly useful for what you're looking for, but yea

No no no, Charisma is the Truenamer's primary stat. Otherwise how can they use Bluff to pretend they are not just a commoner speaking in gibberish and use UMD to contribute to the party?

[OldTrees1]

(Zhentarim Soldier)Fighter
[Aka Intimidate as a weapon]

[Teapot Salty]

Favored soul sounds sweet

[WhamBamSam]

Huh. Nice find. I did not realize that and never would have found that on my own. Thank you.:smallsmile:I didn't find it on my own either. These forums are a cool place.

[Alex12]

No no no, Charisma is the Truenamer's primary stat. Otherwise how can they use Bluff to pretend they are not just a commoner speaking in gibberish and use UMD to contribute to the party?

They don't need to use Bluff. Truenamers are a better chassis than a Commoner, especially if they completely ignore Truespeech to focus on being a walking encyclopedia with their Knowledge skills.
If you ignore the actual casting/manifesting/utterances/whatever, Truenamers actually don't compare unfavorably to other Int-casters. If you gave Truenamers wizard casting or psion manifesting instead of Truespeech, I'd cheerfully play one.
+12 to any single Knowledge skill you want (or otherwise split up into groups of 3) on top of skill points and Int bonus and before any feats (the bonus doesn't count as a feat from Skill Focus) is, as far as I'm aware, better than any other class can achieve.

[Septimus]

I am doing a martial character based on charisma. It is based on Fighter/Paladin/Pious Templar/Divine Crusader. Fun to have charisma bonus to saves, armor class, damage and eventually charisma-based spell casting.

[squiggit]

Casters: Favored Soul, Dread Necromancer, Shai'ir, Shugenja, Sorcerer, Warmage, Wilder
-The Death Master has partial benefit, his Rebuke pool and class feature DCs are Cha based, but his spellcasting is Int based
-Healer gets +Cha mod to healing but is otherwise Wisdom based


Partial Casters: Bard, Dragonfire Adept, Hexblade, Jester, Paladin, Shadowcaster, Spellthief, Warlock,
-The Divine Mind receives Cha to all saves, but his manifestations are wisdom based
-The Soulborn has con based Meldshaping but a few Cha based class features

Martial (not full benefit): Battledancer, Crusader, Knight, Marshal, Samurai, Zhentarim Fighter,


Probably missing a bunch.

[Diovid]

'party-face' type characters like charisma (obviously).

A bluffer/disguiser for instance, which probably should be a Changeling with levels in Rogue (for the changeling rogue substitution level), Mountebank (the prc, not the base class), Exemplar, Marshal (1 level), Spymaster, Cabinet Trickster and/or Charlatan.

A diplomancer, which probably should be a Desert Half-Elf with levels in Bard (at least 1 level for the half-elf bard substitution level), Exemplar, Marshal (again, just 1 level) and other classes and which takes the Complementary Insight and Sociable Personality feats.

An intimidater, which probably should be a Desert Half-Orc with levels in Half-Orc Paragon, Fighter (with the Zhentarim substitution levels and possibly using other variants), Scarlet Corsair, Avenging Executioner and/or Menacing Brute and which takes the following feats: Menacing Demeanor, Dreadful Wrath, Imperious Command and maybe Intimidating Rage.

[WinWin]

Noone mentioned Battle Dancer, so I will.

[avr]

Artificers like their UMD skill a lot, both for making items and for using an infusion or two. This is based off CHA of course.

Dragonmarks (Eberron) use CHA.

Despite these I do second Binders (or their archenemies the Witch Slayer PrC) for your generally martial CHA-using character.

[sideswipe]

Favored soul sounds sweet

expanding on my earlier post. a martial character that likes charisma is a samurai (like a cooler fighter) from Oriental adventures.
OR the sohei like a monk barbarian mix (its pretty good) from the same book.

both have the skill Iaijitsu focus, allowing you to do a much better version of sneak attack which can do way more damage then sneak attack at early levels. (about 5-6d6 with a good roll at level 1 if you maximise it) so say samurai and be dex and charisma based. dex 17 for flick of the wrist (make the opponent flat footed). take a couple skill tricks to make them flat footed (and maybe dip a level of warblade for a nice stance and sapphire nightmare blade to also make them flat footed).

when you hit about level 6-7 you can go into iaijitsu master which lets you add your charisma to every dice of iaijitsu focus damage.

essentially you have a samurai (personally i would go sohei with a couple of base attack improving dips like warblade and fighter) who is a master of his weapon and always has it away. you then surprise your opponent and draw your weapon making them flat footed and deliver one huge blow. (i guess you could do the barbarian lion totem dip to optimise but its not necessary).

lots of damage delivered in a cool way and all charisma based. even the dex based stuff can be re-fluffed into you feinting and catching them by surprise through some sort of bluff.

[Jeff the Green]

Bard 3/Marshal 1/Paladin 4/Crusader 1/Divine Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 would work pretty well. See if you can make Song of the White Raven work with RKV in addition to Crusader.

You've got 18 BAB, 9th-level spells, 7th-level maneuvers, turn undead that can be used for a bunch of useful stuff, Charisma to something for all your allies (likely initiative, though damage while flanking is nice too), Charisma to saves, and bardic music, which I'd recommend using for Snowflake Wardance.

[Vortenger]

Hexblade (w/ the author's suggested fix) is a great 4 level class for martial charisma characters. I like to pair it with 2 levels of one of the paladin variants. Makes a really tough character to take down.

Bard is probably the best charisma melee, simply due to the snowflake war dance feat. Only way in 3.5 to get cha to hit. Add in slippers of battle dancing for extra awesome.

Every cha based melee wants the gauntlets of heartfelt blows for +cha to damage as fire.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Make an arcane gish, the standard sorcadin build would work just fine: Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8. Just be sure to use this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267805-Sorcerer-Handbook#4), and get a way to cast (Greater) Luminous Armor (Arcane Preparation, or put it on your Runestaff if possible). Make your character an Illumian (RoD) with the Naenhoon runeword and you can spend your Sacred Exorcist turn uses to persist two spells each day.

[toapat]

*snip*

The typical Iajutsu Focus builds use Expert or Factotum, not the OA classes.

If you have access to Dragon Warrior from one of the Dragon issues, you can key basically everything off of Charisma through paladin and it.


Noone mentioned Battle Dancer, so I will.

ive never actually see people talk about the Bardic monk before, is it actually good?

[sideswipe]

The typical Iajutsu Focus builds use Expert or Factotum, not the OA classes.

If you have access to Dragon Warrior from one of the Dragon issues, you can key basically everything off of Charisma through paladin and it.



ive never actually see people talk about the Bardic monk before, is it actually good?

i know, i built mine on factotum, but sohei looks like such a fun class (not powerful)

[WhamBamSam]

ive never actually see people talk about the Bardic monk before, is it actually good?It's a decent one level dip in the right build. The second level is okay if your DM likes throwing fear effects around and you could maybe condone taking 4 levels. It's a pretty bad class on the whole though.

Slippers of Battledancing let you replace your Str/Dex with Cha on attack/damage rolls if you have at least 5 ranks in Perform (Dance) and move at least 10ft as part of a move action. If you have some means of taking extra move actions (Hustle, Quicksilver Motion) or hitting hard with standard actions (Landshark Boots, some strike maneuvers, maybe Greater Manyshot), they can be pretty good. They are expensive though. You're going to need someone in the party to craft them for you/craft them yourself if you want a pair before getting to relatively high levels.

[Gemini476]

expanding on my earlier post. a martial character that likes charisma is a samurai (like a cooler fighter) from Oriental adventures.
OR the sohei like a monk barbarian mix (its pretty good) from the same book.

both have the skill Iaijitsu focus, allowing you to do a much better version of sneak attack which can do way more damage then sneak attack at early levels. (about 5-6d6 with a good roll at level 1 if you maximise it) so say samurai and be dex and charisma based. dex 17 for flick of the wrist (make the opponent flat footed). take a couple skill tricks to make them flat footed (and maybe dip a level of warblade for a nice stance and sapphire nightmare blade to also make them flat footed).

when you hit about level 6-7 you can go into iaijitsu master which lets you add your charisma to every dice of iaijitsu focus damage.

essentially you have a samurai (personally i would go sohei with a couple of base attack improving dips like warblade and fighter) who is a master of his weapon and always has it away. you then surprise your opponent and draw your weapon making them flat footed and deliver one huge blow. (i guess you could do the barbarian lion totem dip to optimise but its not necessary).

lots of damage delivered in a cool way and all charisma based. even the dex based stuff can be re-fluffed into you feinting and catching them by surprise through some sort of bluff.
The CW Samurai also likes Charisma, but that's just because the only thing he's good for is intimidation.

[Diovid]

The CW Samurai also likes Charisma, but that's just because the only thing he's good for is intimidation.
Better than some people know (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x) in fact.

[Ellowryn]

If it gave CW Samurai the ability to Intimidate anything it might just raise them from the bottom of the tier they are in, possibly to the top of it. Might make the class possible in low OP gestalt games (if such things exist).