Will it Play: Pig Bond Commoner...With a twist!

[malonkey1]

Hello everybody, my name is Malonkey1, and I am your host in the hit show:

WILL IT PLAY?

The rules are simple:

Make a build that works! The build should be playable in a real game alongside the average, unoptimized, but non-gimped game.
Make the build with the restrictions given! You have to make the build function within any and all restrictions given in the contest description.
Have fun! This isn't a serious optimization contest, it's just for fun!
And answer the question, WILL! IT! PLAY!?


Any core 3.5 books are allowed, and you may have 1 flaw (plus any flaws called for by the theme). You may use Dragon Magazine or Paizo/Pathfinder material, but it may cost you points for build stability. You may also use 3rd edition material, but only if an updated 3.5 version does not exist. Entries are due before Midnight, June 8th.

Direct Message me your builds, and they'll be scored from 1 to 10 in the following 4 categories.

Stability: How likely is banning things going to effect this (in other words, the fewer sources you need, the better you score). You can't go below 5 in this category unless you use Dragon Magazine, 3.0 material that has a 3.5 update, or Pathfinder content.
Power: How well can this perform, compared to normal characters. Not looking for wizards here, but try to perform above an unoptimized Truenamer. You can only go below 5 points if you end up weaker than expected.
Ingenuity: How creative is this build? Points here are awarded for coming up with unexpected solutions. Cheese is perfectly fine, but be warned that you might take hits to Stability or Simplicity.
Simplicity: Separate from Stability, this measure how complicated the build is to use. A simpler build gives a higher score.


And now Playgrounders, our theme! The Pig Bond flaw...And Vow of Poverty as the feat it grants! taken as soon as possible. You may not break the Vow of Poverty.


Pig Bond is a flaw from an April Fools issue of Dragon Magazine that gives you a pig which always weighs exactly your maximum load, and refuses to walk on its own. Its weight increases with your maximum load (but doesn't decrease if yours does), and if you get more than a few inches away, it turns into Orcus and flays you alive.

Vow of Poverty is a feat from Book of Exalted Deeds that requires you to carry very limited equipment and never accrue wealth, and offers some bonuses as you level up in exchange.


WILL
IT
PLAY!?

[Flickerdart]

VoP doesn't work due to lack of Sacred Vow, gain WBL as normal, deploy incredible Porcus powers to end the world.

[malonkey1]

VoP doesn't work due to lack of Sacred Vow, gain WBL as normal, deploy incredible Porcus powers to end the world.

I will rewrite this to fix it, thank you.

[Alex12]

VoP doesn't work due to lack of Sacred Vow, gain WBL as normal, deploy incredible Porcus powers to end the world.

Sure VoP works, you just have to spend your first-level feat to grab Sacred Vow. Remember, Pig-Bound is a flaw, so it grants a feat.

[cosmonuts]

Ah, the practically impossible challenge you gave in the other thread.

The optimal path should be breaking the vow of poverty, losing its "benefits", and accruing WBL as normal. You still have the feat, thus technically qualifying for the competition. You should probably add a rule disallowing this.

[malonkey1]

Ah, the practically impossible challenge you gave in the other thread.

The optimal path should be breaking the vow of poverty, losing its "benefits", and accruing WBL as normal. You still have the feat, thus technically qualifying for the competition. You should probably add a rule disallowing this.

Again, thank you. I should be a lot more careful with writing these. And yes, the point of this is to take completely borked concepts and make them work.

[Phelix-Mu]

I eagerly await the results. This should be great.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Take Leadership, get a cohort who has the Animal Companion class feature and access to the Wizard spell list at a decent caster level. He makes your pig his animal companion so he can use personal-range spells on it, uses a Scroll of Hide Life on the pig so it cannot die.

Be a large size race, optimize carrying capacity and take Bloodstorm Blade and maybe Hulking Hurler. Your pig always weighs your max load, but never increases in size, so you can take the feat Fling Ally in RoS to be able to throw it.

You can now use your supermassive pig as an improvised thrown weapon, and it always ricochets back to you immediately after striking or missing its target.

That's all, folks!

[Tessman the 2nd]

step 1: low strength druid/wiz/psion/cleric/something not reliant on strength
step 2: get a Mount (feat or class feature) to carry you and pig
step 3: ???
step 4: profit!

[cosmonuts]

Take Leadership, get a cohort who has the Animal Companion class feature and access to the Wizard spell list at a decent caster level. He makes your pig his animal companion so he can use personal-range spells on it, uses a Scroll of Hide Life on the pig so it cannot die.

Be a large size race, optimize carrying capacity and take Bloodstorm Blade and maybe Hulking Hurler. Your pig always weighs your max load, but never increases in size, so you can take the feat Fling Ally in RoS to be able to throw it.

You can now use your supermassive pig as an improvised thrown weapon, and it always ricochets back to you immediately after striking or missing its target.

That's all, folks!

The pig in bloodstorm blade actually leaves your possession, triggering Orcus, I think. Since you have to recatch it as a free action.

Leadership is the master key solution to most problems.

[WhamBamSam]

Unfortunately, throwing the Pig probably doesn't work, as it will turn into Orcus and skin you when you do so. Assuming the thing I'm reading is accurate, anyway. Though it shouldn't be that hard to survive being skinned, and that route is the cool way to go about this.


Here's my easy way out:

Be a Psion and do the Fusion/Astral Seed rigmarole to permanently become one with the pig. You don't have to suffer encumbrance issues carrying it around anymore, but it never leaves you. Psion does VoP better than pretty much any other class too, so that's nice.

Up until the high levels where this can be pulled off, use Wild Cohort for a mount as Tessman's post suggests.

[cosmonuts]

Unfortunately, throwing the Pig probably doesn't work, as it will turn into Orcus and skin you when you do so. Assuming the thing I'm reading is accurate, anyway. Though it shouldn't be that hard to survive being skinned, and that route is the cool way to go about this.


Here's my easy way out:

Be a Psion and do the Fusion/Astral Seed rigmarole to permanently become one with the pig. You don't have to suffer encumbrance issues carrying it around anymore, but it never leaves you. Psion does VoP better than pretty much any other class too, so that's nice.

Up until the high levels where this can be pulled off, use Wild Cohort for a mount as Tessman's post suggests.

Commoner class restriction. Have a leadership psion mind switch with you to get around that.

[Alex12]

Commoner class restriction. Have a leadership psion mind switch with you to get around that.

Or just go Commoner 1/Psion however much you want.

[cosmonuts]

Or just go Commoner 1/Psion however much you want.

Huh, OP actually didn't specify a commoner class restriction.

Then this becomes just like any other optimization game.

[Khatoblepas]

Do you die if you play a character without skin, like an Awakened Skeleton or a Bone Creature, or a Lich? What about a race that regenerates, or has the Troll Blooded feat?

What happens after the Pig turns into Orcus? Does he turn back into a pig when you pick him back up, or does he remain as Orcus? Do any spells affecting the pig also affect Orcus when the pig turns into him (for example, implanting a Necrotic Cyst into him and then casting Necrotic Tumor)?

Does the pig transform into Orcus in an antimagic field, or is the transformation an Ex special quality of the pig?

What are the pig's stats, before and after he turns into Orcus?

There are just so many questions.

[Alex12]

Do you die if you play a character without skin, like an Awakened Skeleton or a Bone Creature, or a Lich? What about a race that regenerates, or has the Troll Blooded feat?

What happens after the Pig turns into Orcus? Does he turn back into a pig when you pick him back up, or does he remain as Orcus? Do any spells affecting the pig also affect Orcus when the pig turns into him (for example, implanting a Necrotic Cyst into him and then casting Necrotic Tumor)?

Does the pig transform into Orcus in an antimagic field, or is the transformation an Ex special quality of the pig?

What are the pig's stats, before and after he turns into Orcus?

There are just so many questions.

Huh. Fluff justification!
You (the guy with Sacred Vow, VoP, and Pig-Bound) are Exalted for a reason. Orcus is currently imprisoned by an awe-inspiringly powerful spell that binds his intelligence, magic, strength, etc. and changes his shape into something relatively harmless (specifically a pig) and channels his magic into a relatively benign purpose, specifically keeping his weight at exactly the maximum amount you can carry, regardless of how strong you are or how much you can eat (because magic is weird, and that was the easiest way to make the spell). The spell also requires a mortal focus, requiring constant contact with a mortal to keep it intact (again, magic is weird), so you, because of your purity of heart, were chosen. If you ever go more than two feet from the pig, the spell fails, and Orcus's full manifestation will be let loose upon the Material plane to wreak havoc, unconstrained by the normal rules his kind must follow when doing so. So don't do that.

[Inevitability]

Wouldn't possessing a pig automatically break VoP? Or is that part of the challenge?

[malonkey1]

Wouldn't possessing a pig automatically break VoP? Or is that part of the challenge?

It depends on whther you count it as a possession. I wouldn't.

[toapat]

Wouldn't possessing a pig automatically break VoP? Or is that part of the challenge?

the pig is an ally, not a possession

personally i want to see what happens if we start with Commoner 1/Survivor 5

Vow of Peace, Touch of Golden Ice are definitely necessary considering we have all 7 bonus exalted feats.

definitely gets the saint template as well

[Tvtyrant]

Are we allowed other classes or are we stuck with Commoner 20? Because a Drunken Master wielding a pig would be hilarious.

[Eldan]

the pig is an ally, not a possession

personally i want to see what happens if we start with Commoner 1/Survivor 5

Vow of Peace, Touch of Golden Ice are definitely necessary considering we have all 7 bonus exalted feats.

definitely gets the saint template as well

Now I wonder. If the pig turns into Orcus, is it evil and would be hurt by Touch of Golden Ice?

[malonkey1]

Are we allowed other classes or are we stuck with Commoner 20? Because a Drunken Master wielding a pig would be hilarious.

No, you only need Commoner 1 so you can qualify for Pig Bond.


Now I wonder. If the pig turns into Orcus, is it evil and would be hurt by Touch of Golden Ice?

Yes, Orcus is evil, therefore the pig becomes evil when it becomes Orcus. Keep in mind he's a Demon Prince.

[Qwertystop]

Yeah, I think the big thing here is gaining the ability to survive being flayed.

Hm. Is flaying instant death normally, or would you survive until you died of bleeding or shock or infection? You might have time to cast Regenerate.

Also, you're only flayed once. Get to the higher of [high enough level to survive the flaying for long enough to use your selected method of negating it] and [high enough level to prevent later effects]. The latter can be done, for example, by Regenerate (so 13th-level Cleric or 17th-level Druid), Polymorph (7th-level Wizard or 8th-level Sorcerer), Wild Shape (5th-level Druid if major disfigurements are not carried over, 12th-level for Plant Shape if they are because I'm sure there's a plant somewhere that doesn't have anything important the removal of which could be considered "flaying").

Personally, I like the Druid option if the disfigurements don't carry over - Wild Shape doesn't have a duration, so you just need to never go back to your normal shape until you get to some way of having Regenerate cast on you.

Polymorph would be more of a stopgap, unless the accelerated healing for the change would regrow your skin, in which case Wild Shape does the same thing and you don't need to be an animal or plant for the next twelve levels.

[toapat]

What is a Fey race that has no ECL adjustment and that has a bonus level 1 feat? we probably have the options to make a really badass Cha character if we throw Paladin 3 + Battledancer 1 + the fey feat for Cha to HP and the feat that gives frightful presence

Edit: Also Pious Templar 2 for Mettle

[Seerow]

Why is dragon magazine penalized when your required component is from dragon magazine?

[toapat]

Why is dragon magazine penalized when your required component is from dragon magazine?

the other real problem is you cant optimize Pigbond and VoP together. Pigbond optimization relies on focusing on reaching sufficient Str score that you now have a Sphere of Anihilation to beat people with, while VoP requires pushing one of the mental stats way out of proportion to avoid the weaknesses of not having gear.

[JeminiZero]

Yes, Orcus is evil, therefore the pig becomes evil when it becomes Orcus. Keep in mind he's a Demon Prince.
IDEA! As a Demon Prince Orcus is an evil outsider. That makes him vulnerable to the Sacred Item Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13206165#post13206165) (no save, no SR).

Therefore:
1) Play a race that is ageless
2) take 7 levels in a class that can cast Sacred Item (Archivist or Cleric looks good) OR fo those who want to be druids, take 9 levels in any spellcasting class, and then get Sacred Item through extra spell. You could probably pull it off with just 8 levels, and some heighten spell shenanigans to count as having 5th level spells, to qualify for Extra Spell Sacred Item on 1 Commoner/8 Other Spellcaster. I would have liked to commission some command word item of Sacred Item at will, but that conflicts with Vow of Poverty.
3) Spam SI on grains of sand. This might take a while, which is where the Ageless Race bit comes in.
4) Bury the pig in SI sand, walk away
5) Pig transforms into Orcus and is now an evil outsider, and suddenly becomes vulnerable to Sacred Items (which he is buried in)
6) (Explosion)
7) Profit!

[malonkey1]

Why is dragon magazine penalized when your required component is from dragon magazine?

The required items will never be penalized. Anything else may or may not be penalized. A single feat from Dragon Compendium? Probably no deal. Half your build is a bizarre variant from an obscure issue of Dragon, you'll probably be docked.

[toapat]

The required items will never be penalized. Anything else may or may not be penalized. A single feat from Dragon Compendium? Probably no deal. Half your build is a bizarre variant from an obscure issue of Dragon, you'll probably be docked.

If the variant was worth using, it wouldnt be obscure.

Well, unless its monk but thats only because so many of the variants are significantly superior that listing them all is a chore

[toapat]

Saint Jill Stonewall, The Holy Immovable Object:

Race: Winter Unseelie Fey Silverbrow human.
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Attributes: 6 Str, 16+4 Dex, 16+6 Con, 8 Int, 10+2 Wis, 36+8 Cha

Fly speed from Birdlike wings, Winter Unseelie fey.

Classes:

1: Commoner: Sacred Vow, Dreadful Wrath, Dynamic Priest: Pious Templar, Flaw (Non-combatant): Beauty's Bounty
2: Survivor 1:
3: Survivor 2: Vow of Poverty, Nymph's Kiss. Gain Saint Template if LA buyoff
4: Survivor 3:
5: Survivor 4:
6: Survivor 5: True Believer: Sune, Vow of Nonviolence
7: Paladin of Freedom 1:
8: Paladin of Freedom 2: Cha to Saves
9: Paladin of Freedom 3, Ruby Rose Knight: Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strikes, Touch of Golden Ice. Immunity to cha damage.
10: Battledancer 1: Cha to Armor
11: Paladin of Freedom 4:
12: Pious Templar 1: Martial Study: Crusader's strike, Exalted Smite
13: Pious Templar 2:
14: Pious Templar 3:
15: Pious Templar 4: Battle Blessing, Combat Reflex, Vow of Peace
16: Pious Templar 5:
17: Pious Templar 6:
18: Bard 1: Leadership which is retrained after eating a +5 cha tome of the companion into Snowflake Wardance, Gift of Grace
19: Pious Templar 7:
20: Pious Templar 8: Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades. Gain Saint template if no LA buyoff

[Inevitability]

You have to PM the builds...

[toapat]

You have to PM the builds...

one of the first feats for it is a dragonlance feat, its not legal

[Inevitability]

Oops! I didn't see that! I'm sorry!

By the way, Malonky, has anyone already submitted a build?

[toapat]

Oops! I didn't see that! I'm sorry!

By the way, Malonky, has anyone already submitted a build?

that, and i hadnt checked the Survivor class perfectly, meaning that the 5th level is completely worthless to this build, you already get better and thicker DR from templates.

[malonkey1]

Oops! I didn't see that! I'm sorry!

By the way, Malonky, has anyone already submitted a build?

Not yet, but give it some time. It's a tough theme, and there's still most of the 2 weeks left.

[toapat]

Not yet, but give it some time. It's a tough theme, and there's still most of the 2 weeks left.

i already pointed out the 2 prerequisites optimize in entirely different directions. the only functional aspect of my build i posted at the end of page 1 even marginally works is it is designed partially to just tank blows till Orcus' dex gives out.

[malonkey1]

i already pointed out the 2 prerequisites optimize in entirely different directions. the only functional aspect of my build i posted at the end of page 1 even marginally works is it is designed partially to just tank blows till Orcus' dex gives out.

That's the point of this contest. It's supposed to be impossible builds made vaguely usable. It's sort of the hardcore mode of optimization. And again, it's all for fun.

[malonkey1]

Only 2 days left, guys. If you're going to submit something, please do! :smallsmile:

[toapat]

so are there any submissions besides mine?

[malonkey1]

Sigh...no.