A world without magic

[atemu1234]

I was running a magic-heavy campaign in a homebrewed campaign setting. The magic was all arcane, no divine casters existed. Now, this was because magic was derived from strange, world-covering things called the Ley. The Ley were based off of leylines, and they all stemmed from an artifact known as the Seed of Yggdrasil, and this artifact was recently destroyed. This caused magic world-wide to cease. Magic items no longer function. Spells don't work. Scrolls crumbled into dust. What effect would this have on the world?

[sideswipe]

most of the cities would devolve as they don't have magic to help feed themselves any more.
also any potions might still work. so they would become powerful artefacts almost and people would kill for them.

high level wizards would now just be nobles. and there money is the only thing keeping them alive. but then again since they can no longer disintegrate attackers they would all be targeted.

if supernatural abilities and spell like abilities still exist. it would be a rise of warlocks instead of wizards.

long distance travel would be really slow going. so large kingdoms will break down into smaller baron/lord lead lands.

essentially the world would become the real medieval times.

[Gavinfoxx]

There are a LOT of ways to get 'magical' things to work in a setting that is considered to be 'without magic' in the rules, do those still work?

[Gildedragon]

Diamonds become EXTREMELY expensive as wizards buy them all up, driving the prices up:
see: invoke magic

9th Level casters probably escape to their demiplanes temporarily, establish networks of trade with other wizards and their demiplanes. Every now and then one or a few come to their fiefdoms in blazes of thunder and lightning. They are gods in virtually every sense of the word. Because they probably gave their planes time traits that are diff from their native material plane they become unhinged in time.

Persistented Extended Invoke Magic becomes really commonplace
Every wizard and their grandmother casts Arcane Thesis-ed Invisible Sanctumed (other metamagic-reducersed) versions of the spell, to the point it becomes the normal version.
The study of magic occurs only in the wizards' demiplanes; and mages don't stay long on the material plane until they are 9th level.

[Kazudo]

1 Important question: Psionics aren't granted typically by an outside source but rather the inner strength of the individual. How would Psionics be affected? 2 Important question: Secondarily, do Supernatural and Spell-Like abilities still work?
3 Important question: Are the outer planes still around, and does magic work on the outer planes? If so, then
4 Important question: Does magic brought in from the outer planes not being dependent on the conditions of the material plane function?

If the answer to the first question is "no psionics", the second one "Yes", the third being "Yes", and the fourth being "yes", then it would make the material plane a viable battleground for wars between the outer planes. Regardless, if the answer to the middle two questions is "Yes", then the same would happen but the material plane would have a better fighting chance against it.

[ahenobarbi]

There are a LOT of ways to get 'magical' things to work in a setting that is considered to be 'without magic' in the rules, do those still work?

That's a very important question. Do spells that explicitly make magic work in dead magic zones /planes (invoke magic) work? Can monsters use supernatural / spell like abilities? What happens to monsters in general (trolls dragons,beholders, undead, ... there are a lot of creatures that are very magical in nature)?

Also how much did denizens of the world rely on magic? Did they feed practically all population with create food and water traps? Did they use teleportation circles for transport? Did they use magic a sole (dominant) means of fighting?

Also what do you want to happen? There are plenty possibilities:

everybody gets butchered by monsters that now no one can (effectively) opose
everyone locks them selves in fortified areas because they fear they're only ones affected
people forming small groups figting for (now that magic providing them very scarce) resources
A few people who are now most powerful (royalty because many obey them? fighting types because now they are kind of like superman with kryptonite-free world? skill-focused characters (because they can outwith everyone else)? wizards (they're still very smart and still know a lot more than anyone else(probably)?) grab power and world continues mostly as it used to be but on lower power level?

[atemu1234]

They use magic for most things. While the commoners grow most of their food, they still depend on magic for items, mostly wondrous items and weapons, but those have broken, all magic is gone. This isn't an antimagic zone- this is a place in which all magic has completely disappeared. Psionics never and still don't exist. Same goes for any other alternatives to magic.

[Kazudo]

Complete social collapse. Back to the technological dark ages. Combat trained individuals and skill-focused characters take the forefront unopposed by their previously superior magical brethren. Any societies based around a mageocracy or oligarchy must quickly change pace or be crumbled by the rise of the martial classes. Etc. etc. etc.

Sounds like a pretty cruddy place to be.

[atemu1234]

Complete social collapse. Back to the technological dark ages. Combat trained individuals and skill-focused characters take the forefront unopposed by their previously superior magical brethren. Any societies based around a mageocracy or oligarchy must quickly change pace or be crumbled by the rise of the martial classes. Etc. etc. etc.

Sounds like a pretty cruddy place to be.

Blame a PC with Disjunction.

[ahenobarbi]

This isn't an antimagic zone- this is a place in which all magic has completely disappeared. Psionics never and still don't exist. Same goes for any other alternatives to magic.

That's a dead magic plane, invoke magic spell still works :)


Complete social collapse. Back to the technological dark ages. Combat trained individuals and skill-focused characters take the forefront unopposed by their previously superior magical brethren. Any societies based around a mageocracy or oligarchy must quickly change pace or be crumbled by the rise of the martial classes. Etc. etc. etc.

Not necessarily. There arte (and were) a lot of societies where rulers were not the ones with ability to kill most effectively themselves but relied on others accepting them as "rightful" rullers. Whether or not thoe who rulled in the world bothered to create "legitimacy" for their rule is another story (they probably did because controlling whole kingdoms by force is much more bothersome and resource exhausting than just supporting "legitimate" claim to rule with force). Also martial types may realize they'll end up used by someone and may willingly choose to stick to their current masters (probably demanding a bit better deal).

[Slipperychicken]

Does Truenaming still work? How about Incarnum and ToB?

Also, couldn't someone just build another "Seed of Yggdrasil" (or a similar object) to get the ley lines back up and running?

[atemu1234]

That's a dead magic plane, invoke magic spell still works :)

When I said all other alternatives to magic, what did you assume I meant?

[atemu1234]

Does Truenaming still work? How about Incarnum and ToB?

Also, couldn't someone just build another "Seed of Yggdrasil" (or a similar object) to get the ley lines back up and running?

The seed of yggdrasil was a unique artifact, actually the heart of a long-dead eldritch being. While I said there are no divine casters, as well as no alternatives to magic left (including TOB, Incarnum and Truenamers), there is a mythology; the Seed of Yggdrasil was created by the death of a god whose body became the world, his "blood" becoming the ley. The seed is gone, and the god is long dead. In other words, magic isn't coming back any time soon.

[ahenobarbi]

When I said all other alternatives to magic, what did you assume I meant?

I meant Invoke Magic spell might still work. I just quoted too much:


This isn't an antimagic zone- this is a place in which all magic has completely disappeared.


That's a dead magic plane, invoke magic spell still works :)

Invoke Magis is 9th level spell from Lords of Madness it should work in your situation (in my opinion):


You cause a flicker of magic to momentarily exist in a place where magic cannot normally function, such as within the area of an antimagic field, a dead magic area, or a null-magic plane.

And it could change what happens significantly.

[Gavinfoxx]

Most of Tome of Battle isn't magic.

Do you mean, "Any magic that doesn't work in an antimagic field or null magic zone doesn't work"

Or "All Supernatural, Spell-like, and spellcasting powers and abilities cease to exist"?

Or, "Everything that even hints at being innately magical or magical in any way whatsoever stops working"

In the first case, things are disrupted but mostly, creatures tend to continue like otherwise, as the techniques for getting magic to work start spreading around and people adapt and such.

If it's the last case, there is a huge die-off as magical beings (including those that would function fine on a null magic plane, like constructs) start dying left and right, and you end up with a world with things shaped mostly like the sorts of things that ever lived in our world... Warblade would probably end up being one of the more powerful classes left...

[Angelalex242]

Which classes still work?

Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue, and most likely Monk still work fine.

Ranger misses his druidic casting, but still works fine.

Paladins never had clerical casting in this world, but as their power comes from righteousness, the rest of their stuff may still work. Their bonded mounts become stuck on this world, unable to return. (You can't fall from grace just because magic died out. Only sins can do that.)

[atemu1234]

Invoke Magic may work quite simply due to the high level of power it takes to work, but it needs some extra condition; basically, all "sparks" of magic are gone. Spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities are gone. Any creature that ever had them either lost them or died. Creatures depending on magic (good or evil) have died. Portals to and from the plane have permanently closed.

[Gildedragon]

overall you can expect, well...
the campaign probably has to leave the world as i assume some PCs are magic users (disjunction)

Invoke magic + gate to some other plane (shadow is a good friendly one to gather bearings and set out into the Astral to kill some god.

[atemu1234]

overall you can expect, well...
the campaign probably has to leave the world as i assume some PCs are magic users (disjunction)

Invoke magic + gate to some other plane (shadow is a good friendly one to gather bearings and set out into the Astral to kill some god.

They're more trying to restore it. They did it to stop an evil being from being summoned, but now that they've killed everything dependent on magic, they intend to restore it. How is still being written.

[Angelalex242]

In that case, the Ranger is completely fine, minus druidic casting, because all his stuff is Ex.

Monk loses some stuff, but not everything.

Paladins essentially fall. Only Ex abilities they have are immune to disease and aura of good.

[Kazudo]

supernatural abilities are gone.
Monks and Ninjas no longer can use Ki.
Bards have lost their ability to inspire anything through use of their songs.
Warlocks lose their DR and invocations

The list goes on and on. In short, a lot of characters and builds are severely gimped by this outcome.

[Angelalex242]

I believe, Kazudo, that this is the point.

It's like everyone's a fallen paladin, and restoring magic to the world is their quest to get their powers back.

[atemu1234]

I believe, Kazudo, that this is the point.

It's like everyone's a fallen paladin, and restoring magic to the world is their quest to get their powers back.

Someone got it. Finally.

[Kazudo]

Someone got it. Finally.

No, I got it but was hoping it wasn't true.

I hope they succeed, then.

[atemu1234]

No, I got it but was hoping it wasn't true.

I hope they succeed, then.

What's wrong with it?

[Gildedragon]

What's wrong with it?

Well... you removed the players' special abilities for the most part.
Turning this into a planar excursion would be a way to keep the "we got no powers, nothing from having leveled up except BAB and HP" section brief
have them wander a bit. Couple of encounters with dying magical creatures (or demagicing: winter wolves turning into normal wolves)

in the interim: Maybe people start finding reservoirs of magic from... unsavory things
Human sacrifice allows some magic to be worked, and some unscrupulous mages are exploiting it

defiling (a'la athas) also lets people draw magic up from the planet's life.

players that see magic being savanged thus might feel further rushed to fix things. They get to some planar pathway... and get whisked to interplanar adventure.

[otakumick]

Everyone now makes a poorly optimized monk look effective.

[torrasque666]

In my opinion, seeing that the major reason mundanes can't keep up at high levels is magic and magical enemies, this actually creates a situation where mundanes can handle themselves. As long as this entire premise was brought up PRIOR to character creation(so you don't wind up with a wizard, a cleric, a druid and a swordsage aka 3 magic and 1 kinda mundane) you should be fine.

[Angelalex242]

You guys are making too big of a deal over something that happens to Paladins ALL THE TIME, every time a snarky DM decides to make a Paladin fall. Just because your favorite class is now subject to it is no reason to decry it.

[torrasque666]

I actually have NO problem with this. My favorites are mundanes as I hate bookkeeping. I would LOVE to play in a campaign like this. Any chance you'd run this on Roll20?

[Gildedragon]

You guys are making too big of a deal over something that happens to Paladins ALL THE TIME, every time a snarky DM decides to make a Paladin fall. Just because your favorite class is now subject to it is no reason to decry it.

A) Paladins should not fall "all the time". A DM "deciding to make a paladin fall" is... well, generally bad DMing
B) Wizards and sorcerers, high level ones, are hurt the least as they can force their class features into existing
C) Party resources are now dropped by a lot. A cliff becomes a real challenge, as does a chasm, and sure that can be interesting, but the unoptimized casters or those who depend on SU SP and Spells abilities have gotten... well... their whole character choice invalidated.

[torrasque666]

So you guys are upset because you CAN'T rely on magical solutions to everything and actually need to rely on skill checks and actually need to PREPARE for a quest in advance? (BTW, simple solution to avoiding the power of a high level Wiz/Sorc is to... not allow Lords of Madness.)

[Gavinfoxx]

I'd play a Martial Dilettante Factotum and end up ruling the world... basically the most powerful class left, at this point...

[atemu1234]

The point of this is it isn't meant to be permanent; it is, however, a detriment for the time being and a huge shift in the world's power structure. The commoners all rebel against their wizard overlords. The nonmagic nobles are leading them.

[Gildedragon]

The point of this is it isn't meant to be permanent; it is, however, a detriment for the time being and a huge shift in the world's power structure. The commoners all rebel against their wizard overlords. The nonmagic nobles are leading them.

except the wiz overlords are the nobles most likely. If magic was a v. common thing for a v. long time... well. For a long time to be a noble was to have a sword. Here replace sword with magic... or add it to magic.

And one would expect they controlled the armies... overthrowing is unlikely. Secession is more probable. Empires break, but the top stays at the top and the bottom stays at the bottom... except in a few cases of peasant revolts.

[MrNobody]

First thing first: abilities. Everyone loses everything that would stop working in an antimagic field: namely, all Spelllike and Supernatural abilities.
This means, obviously, no more powerful attack and so, but also "minor" but important change.
For example, flight: for a lot of creatures, like dragons, flight is both a matter of magic and physical structure and for others, like beholders, is total magic. [i messed up with the examples, both are EX, but you got the point]
Take out magic and the dragon lose his breath, his magic, his wings...
And you have to take in account that there are creatures that live only because of magic, supported by NO biological means: undeads and constructs (warforged too) would instantly die.
Creture compose by a great spark of inner magic will undertake remarkable changes: magical beasts and aberrations could regress to an animal type and fey could become only real small humanoid.

That said, what happens? In nature, I see a proliferation on vermins, animals and oozes (nearly all EX abilities): with the greatest predators taken out and the presence of a huge presence of "easy food" (fey without power and almost no effective way to defend themselves), the most weakened races would soon disappear or be greatly decreased in number.
Creatures with a strong body (i.e dragon) would keep their role but could be more difficult to keep the position.

In societies... we can assume a world where a great part of political powers was in casters hand. Diplomacy could easy end with the more powerful wizards taking advantage of their power to gain political, economical and land rights. This could lead to a vaste series of abuses.
Now, with magic gone, wizard are no more than over-erudite scholars, they are futile and can provide nothing more to societies and, above all, they ar no longer a threat.
I imagine a great "witch hunt" against everybody could use magic and did it for personal purposes.
And i'm not talking about the king that put under siege the defenceless tower of the necromancer archwizard that ruled over their land with terror, but also "smaller" things.
The bard that used magic to deceive young girls stabbed by angry fathers, artificers that used magic to produce masterwork items killed by their jealous "mundain" peers... and so on.
Also, since a lot of classes rely on supernatural abilities, even mundane would decrease in power: just think abount how many monk will lose their enlightment and, with it, a lot of their immunities, the ability of self healing and ki-using...

Society wouldn't collapse (it never does), but this would be the beginning of years and years of "aftershocks", with millions of people dying and a total "migration" of political, economical and social powers in "mundane" hands.

[thethird]

Personally I would have a big problem if this was imposed by the DM without telling me in advance. If this was planned before hand, and told to me, I would still consider whether if its worth to join the game.

Let me explain myself, D&D doesn't work to represent a no - magic game, any creature with DR is now almost unkillable, there is no way to deal with ethereal - incorporeal creatures. shadow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm) are going to kill everything creating more shadows in the process.

Can it be dealt with a lot of houseruling? Probably, but you are no longer playing D&D.

Edit: Dragons Flight is (Ex) it always works (unless you are a yellow dragon, but that is a niche case). I personally see most dragons joining the Xorvintaal Games.

[torrasque666]

Most things with DR/Magic are because they themselves are in some way, magical. Same with shadows. Outsiders have no way of getting to the material plane anymore. Also, the shadow's ability to create spawn is an SU ability which doesn't work, nor does its attack as its also a SU ability, Strength Damage.

[atemu1234]

Personally I would have a big problem if this was imposed by the DM without telling me in advance. If this was planned before hand, and told to me, I would still consider whether if its worth to join the game.

Let me explain myself, D&D doesn't work to represent a no - magic game, any creature with DR is now almost unkillable, there is no way to deal with ethereal - incorporeal creatures. shadow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm) are going to kill everything creating more shadows in the process.

Can it be dealt with a lot of houseruling? Probably, but you are no longer playing D&D.

Edit: Dragons Flight is (Ex) it always works (unless you are a yellow dragon, but that is a niche case). I personally see most dragons joining the Xorvintaal Games.


except the wiz overlords are the nobles most likely. If magic was a v. common thing for a v. long time... well. For a long time to be a noble was to have a sword. Here replace sword with magic... or add it to magic.

And one would expect they controlled the armies... overthrowing is unlikely. Secession is more probable. Empires break, but the top stays at the top and the bottom stays at the bottom... except in a few cases of peasant revolts.


First thing first: abilities. Everyone loses everything that would stop working in an antimagic field: namely, all Spelllike and Supernatural abilities.
This means, obviously, no more powerful attack and so, but also "minor" but important change.
For example, flight: for a lot of creatures, like dragons, flight is both a matter of magic and physical structure and for others, like beholders, is total magic.
Take out magic and the dragon lose his breath, his magic, his wings...
And you have to take in account that there are creatures that live only because of magic, supported by NO biological means: undeads and constructs (warforged too) would instantly die.
Creture compose by a great spark of inner magic will undertake remarkable changes: magical beasts and aberrations could regress to an animal type and fey could become only real small humanoid.

That said, what happens? In nature, I see a proliferation on vermins, animals and oozes (nearly all EX abilities): with the greatest predators taken out and the presence of a huge presence of "easy food" (fey without power and almost no effective way to defend themselves), the most weakened races would soon disappear or be greatly decreased in number.
Creatures with a strong body (i.e dragon) would keep their role but could be more difficult to keep the position.

In societies... we can assume a world where a great part of political powers was in casters hand. Diplomacy could easy end with the more powerful wizards taking advantage of their power to gain political, economical and land rights. This could lead to a vaste series of abuses.
Now, with magic gone, wizard are no more than over-erudite scholars, they are futile and can provide nothing more to societies and, above all, they ar no longer a threat.
I imagine a great "witch hunt" against everybody could use magic and did it for personal purposes.
And i'm not talking about the king that put under siege the defenceless tower of the necromancer archwizard that ruled over their land with terror, but also "smaller" things.
The bard that used magic to deceive young girls stabbed by angry fathers, artificers that used magic to produce masterwork items killed by their jealous "mundain" peers... and so on.
Also, since a lot of classes rely on supernatural abilities, even mundane would decrease in power: just think abount how many monk will lose their enlightment and, with it, a lot of their immunities, the ability of self healing and ki-using...

Society wouldn't collapse (it never does), but this would be the beginning of years and years of "aftershocks", with millions of people dying and a total "migration" of political, economical and social powers in "mundane" hands.

I should specify- the leaders are mostly magicians, but nonmagical nobles exist and are quite potent. I should also specify- I didn't plan on this. A PC cast disjunction on the seed and I went with the roll. The blast killed all the PCs (I decided it would be best if they rerolled their characters, and they agreed once I explained what happened to them) and now their new PCs has one magician: she is a sorcerer, and is somehow (it is unknown how) able to cast spells even though the seed is gone.

[Alleine]

The wilderness might briefly become more dangerous, but in the long run likely becomes safer.

Dragons lose their spell casting, breath weapon, and magic items. They are not happy about this. They can still fly, are still huge, and have a number of pointy bits to express their anger with. Beholders are now just silly looking gasbags. Mind Flayers must now rely on their physical prowess to capture and enslave. All of the nastiest abilities of the variety of creatures that inhabit the planet are gone. However, the means to fight off beasts like dragons are also gone.

Lycanthropes are either cured or trapped in their animal form, depending on how you want that to roll. In fact, all shape shifters are not. This might mean doppleganger infiltrators are exposed quite unexpectedly. To my knowledge, no undead are capable of creating spawn, replicating, or in a number of cases, being created. The church of Pelor(or a similar institution) may seize this opportunity to eradicate any remaining undead if they don't simply fall to dust the moment magic goes away. All constructs revert to rather expensive statues.

Depending on what you decide, everything in the 'magical beast' category might simply suffer a critical existence failure, or become vastly de-powered as their intelligence drops to that of a regular animal. Elementals probably collapse or disperse, summoned creatures might poof as the magic that kept them there vanishes. Alternatively, they are now stuck here forever.

Like I said, lot of old threats disappear or are neutralized entirely. The things that are still very large, strong, and hard to kill are still all of those things. Fun times.


Let me explain myself, D&D doesn't work to represent a no - magic game, any creature with DR is now almost unkillable, there is no way to deal with ethereal - incorporeal creatures. shadow are going to kill everything creating more shadows in the process.

Except the vast majority of ability damage is (Su), meaning it no longer works. Shadows are now just a curious phenomenon if they even still exist. The most they can do is try to touch you, but deal no damage.

[atemu1234]

The wilderness might briefly become more dangerous, but in the long run likely becomes safer.

Dragons lose their spell casting, breath weapon, and magic items. They are not happy about this. They can still fly, are still huge, and have a number of pointy bits to express their anger with. Beholders are now just silly looking gasbags. Mind Flayers must now rely on their physical prowess to capture and enslave. All of the nastiest abilities of the variety of creatures that inhabit the planet are gone. However, the means to fight off beasts like dragons are also gone.

Lycanthropes are either cured or trapped in their animal form, depending on how you want that to roll. In fact, all shape shifters are not. This might mean doppleganger infiltrators are exposed quite unexpectedly. To my knowledge, no undead are capable of creating spawn, replicating, or in a number of cases, being created. The church of Pelor(or a similar institution) may seize this opportunity to eradicate any remaining undead if they don't simply fall to dust the moment magic goes away. All constructs revert to rather expensive statues.

Depending on what you decide, everything in the 'magical beast' category might simply suffer a critical existence failure, or become vastly de-powered as their intelligence drops to that of a regular animal. Elementals probably collapse or disperse, summoned creatures might poof as the magic that kept them there vanishes. Alternatively, they are now stuck here forever.

Like I said, lot of old threats disappear or are neutralized entirely. The things that are still very large, strong, and hard to kill are still all of those things. Fun times.



Except the vast majority of ability damage is (Su), meaning it no longer works. Shadows are now just a curious phenomenon if they even still exist. The most they can do is try to touch you, but deal no damage.

It will take years, but every nonhumanoid in this realm is dying slowly as their inherent magic fades. Hence the importance of our little magician (see above)

[Alleine]

It will take years, but every nonhumanoid in this realm is dying slowly as their inherent magic fades. Hence the importance of our little magician (see above)

Well then. If I were her, I'd be terrified. Depending on when this takes place after the end of magic. . . she will become a much desired commodity. Not just to previous magic users, but anything that is strong and wants its magic back. Or anything of reasonable intelligence that has realized what's going to happen. My money is on dragons. You've probably already thought of those implications though, and of the groups of people who really like things this way and never want magic to come back. . .

[atemu1234]

Well then. If I were her, I'd be terrified. Depending on when this takes place after the end of magic. . . she will become a much desired commodity. Not just to previous magic users, but anything that is strong and wants its magic back. Or anything of reasonable intelligence that has realized what's going to happen. My money is on dragons. You've probably already thought of those implications though, and of the groups of people who really like things this way and never want magic to come back. . .

She's played by one of my best roleplayers. And yes, it will be terrifying; not just because of her enemies, but because literally thousands of creatures are dependent on her for their survival. Good dragons will want to help her restore magic, evil ones will think eating her may keep them alive. Mind Flayers died out fairly quickly; without their abilities they were fading quickly, since their spawn required magic to survive and transform others (house rule, biology thing) and no longer exist. But other than that it's an interesting situation.

[Vaz]

With dragons, consider the Xorvintaal Dragons. They're less spellslingers, and more like typical dragons of fantasy games. They also have special "envoys" called Exarch's which help them out.

[atemu1234]

With dragons, consider the Xorvintaal Dragons. They're less spellslingers, and more like typical dragons of fantasy games. They also have special "envoys" called Exarch's which help them out.

They'd still be too spell-based to live in my campaigns. Maybe some will make an appearance, however.

[Angelalex242]

For all that dragons lost, they're still the top of the food chain. They definitely want as many metallic dragons as they can find helping them restore magic to the world.

Everything else lost more and has less of a chassis to back up what's still less. A Great Wyrm Gold can hand pretty much anyone their ass, even in an antimagic field.

[atemu1234]

I've come up with, stat-wise at least, a good rule of thumb. The more magically dependent they are, the less long they'll last. Mind Flayers require magic to breed. They'll die quickly. Dragons are for the most part nonmagical, apart from their breath weapon and spell-like abilities, so they'll last longer, but still die out.

[Gavinfoxx]

Dragons are still magically dependent in the sense that they can fly and break the square cube law and are innately magical, elemental creatures, and still exist, etc. etc. etc.

It's just more subtle magic that for the most part, doesn't limit their ability to function in a null magic zone or antimagic field and isn't tagged su or anything like that.

[atemu1234]

Dragons are still magically dependent in the sense that they can fly and break the square cube law and are innately magical, elemental creatures, and still exist, etc. etc. etc.

It's just more subtle magic that for the most part, doesn't limit their ability to function in a null magic zone or antimagic field and isn't tagged su or anything like that.

Meh. It's part of the reason they're still dying, but at the same time, we can assume that they somehow bypass the square cubes law without magic.

[ahenobarbi]

Someone got it. Finally.

It's not like you could have written what you expect in the first post to help us help you describe what you want or answer all the questions we asked what exactly it means in your campaign for magic to die... oh wait. Yeah I guess it was the best way to handle this: to wait for someone to guess mind read what outcome you wanted and bash everyone else who wanted to help you.


You guys are making too big of a deal over something that happens to Paladins ALL THE TIME, every time a snarky DM decides to make a Paladin fall. Just because your favorite class is now subject to it is no reason to decry it.

Not sure if joking or just trolling :smallwink:


I actually have NO problem with this. My favorites are mundanes as I hate bookkeeping. I would LOVE to play in a campaign like this. Any chance you'd run this on Roll20?

Sorry to bring the news to you but it doesn't matter if a character is mundane or not power always comes with bookkeeping (above certain threshold ).


The point of this is it isn't meant to be permanent; it is, however, a detriment for the time being and a huge shift in the world's power structure. The commoners all rebel against their wizard overlords. The nonmagic nobles are leading them.

So you do want a specific outcome (as I wrote there are many) and came asking for a justification for it. Please let us know what development you want in more detail so we can help (as I wrote it roughly ranges from everyone dies horribly to everyone lives happily ever after).

[The Grue]

Someone got it. Finally.

Well that was an unnecessarily hostile response from someone who started a thread asking for help.

[Gavinfoxx]

Do realize that there are SOME wizard overlords who won't be unduly inconvenienced unless this seriously starts to drag on a large amount. The ones with Invoke Magic. The ones who have spent a lot of time Planar Binding enemies and getting verrrryyyy long term contracts. The ones who made lots of undead that they don't generally need to use class features or spells to control, and constructs and other minions, and simulacrums of themselves, and so on.

[One Step Two]

Dragonlance Age of Mortals has rules for essentially no magic, for those who had arcane abilities, they had an effective caster level of 0. They could temporarily get some of their powers back by leeching magic items, but it seems with your setting, they were all disenchanted at once.

A couple more questions:
Cross planar magic items: Do magic items brought from other planes still work?
Cross planar beings: Is the absense of the Heart making other called creatures in the world lose their magic too? If a Demon were to teleport in, would it be trapped and without it's SLA and SU abilities?

Rammifications have been covered by others, especially if you have Magocracies in place, it returns to the personal power and wealth of leaders, since they don't have arcane might to back them up. Anyone with a grudge can hire Assassins to target rulers who were previously difficult to assail; If they were a Wizard, for example, now they are a commoner with a better will save, and sneak attacks hurts.

Also, undead, manufactured undead like skeletons and zombies should fall to dust, since it was magic keeping them animated, Vampires and Liches are trickier beasts, since they have a soul... Though I am amused by the idea of a lich being stuck in their phylactery if their body disintegrates, like an angry jack in the box.

Called creatures are still bound by contracts they make, of course, but they can push the boundaries of that contract more and more because they know their master hasn't got the juice anymore, if they don't outright abandon it, if their lifeforce is slowly draining away due to the loss of magic.

[Alleine]

Do realize that there are SOME wizard overlords who won't be unduly inconvenienced unless this seriously starts to drag on a large amount. The ones with Invoke Magic. The ones who have spent a lot of time Planar Binding enemies and getting verrrryyyy long term contracts. The ones who made lots of undead that they don't generally need to use class features or spells to control, and constructs and other minions, and simulacrums of themselves, and so on.

Planar Binding:
1) The binds, which are magical in nature, should no longer exist. They're free, but cannot return home. Guess who they'll be upset at for putting them in this situation?
2) Outsiders you bind will lose a lot of their more potent abilities. Yeah, a number of them are physically strong and they'll be nice to have around if they're still friendly. Or ever were.
3) Elementals that were bound may or may not simply collapse. I'd lean towards collapse since magic is the only explanation I can think of for a sentient, mobile pile of rocks.

Undead are typically animated via magic. Zombies and Skeletons would likely cease to be animated, though other undead that are less explicitly held together by magic could probably still function. Any control spells you employ will again, no longer be there. I'd be willing to concede that there are undead out there that could simply be created via magical means, but are not inherently magical in any way and control over those should be retained. Any undead will start to rot thoroughly since you can no longer apply Gentle Repose, so there's a timer on a lot of them. Constructs are almost certainly all inert due to being animate by magic. Simulacrums. . . I could go either way on.


It occurred to me that an sharp increase in looting/adventuring could take place when people realize then the old haunted crypt down the road only has shadows that move on their own, rather than shadows that suck the life out of you. The same could be said for many other areas. Ancient stone guardian who vigilantly watches over a location? No threat. Magical traps, auras, or defenses? Nonexistant. However, this also means that anything held up or suspend using magic will collapse.

Another potentially immersive though not very impactful consequence would be the discovery of lots and lots of corpses. Most probably washed up on the beach. Various magical aquatic critters, maybe ones that were never seen before, will begin washing up on shorelines and strewn about the countryside as their magic fails.

Magic in the other planes is still functional, yes? Any planar travelers will be stranded outside as you stated planar travel in and out no longer works. However, planar travelers are going to be primarily casters who will want to return home at some point and still have the magic to attempt to punch through, or at least figure out what's going on. If the planar cosmology is still mostly the same then demons, devils, and angels will be very unhappy when they realize the influx of fresh souls has stopped. I have to wonder how amusing it would be for your sorcerer to receive an inter-planar care package from Asmodeus if he can figure out how to get one to her. Oh right, and the entire hierarchy of those planes will be thrown into disarray as all the lower down demons and devils see that their bosses are not or cannot do anything to bring in new souls.

In fact, the residents of a number of the planes may be doing their damndest to get things made right. Mechanicus may create a new kind of inevitable dedicated to the preservation of magic just to stop this from screwing up the multiverse ever again.

EDIT: Maybe I should make smaller posts so people stop beating me to the punch. . .

[Gildedragon]

Oh god... people that were blinking, blink dogs... they get splinched as they're moving between the planes...

[torrasque666]

Dragonlance Age of Mortals has rules for essentially no magic, for those who had arcane abilities, they had an effective caster level of 0. They could temporarily get some of their powers back by leeching magic items, but it seems with your setting, they were all disenchanted at once.

A couple more questions:
Cross planar magic items: Do magic items brought from other planes still work?
Cross planar beings: Is the absense of the Heart making other called creatures in the world lose their magic too? If a Demon were to teleport in, would it be trapped and without it's SLA and SU abilities?

Rammifications have been covered by others, especially if you have Magocracies in place, it returns to the personal power and wealth of leaders, since they don't have arcane might to back them up. Anyone with a grudge can hire Assassins to target rulers who were previously difficult to assail; If they were a Wizard, for example, now they are a commoner with a better will save, and sneak attacks hurts.

Also, undead, manufactured undead like skeletons and zombies should fall to dust, since it was magic keeping them animated, Vampires and Liches are trickier beasts, since they have a soul... Though I am amused by the idea of a lich being stuck in their phylactery if their body disintegrates, like an angry jack in the box.

Called creatures are still bound by contracts they make, of course, but they can push the boundaries of that contract more and more because they know their master hasn't got the juice anymore, if they don't outright abandon it, if their lifeforce is slowly draining away due to the loss of magic.

I believe he mentioned earlier that it is planarly locked. nothing goes in or out.

[atemu1234]

Well that was an unnecessarily hostile response from someone who started a thread asking for help.

Didn't mean to be hostile. Apologies. But at the same time, his was the best metaphor for the situation. Even if I didn't get it until he brought it up.

[HalfQuart]

So... assuming characters lose all spellcasting, supernatural, and spell-like abilities, looking at the base classes:

Barbarian: Loses nothing?
Bard: loses spellcasting, Bardic music, Inspire X -- essentially all class features except Bardic Knowledge
Cleric: Loses all spellcasting and turn undead (i.e. everything)
Druid: Loses wildshape and spellcasting; probably keeps animal companion and other class features
Fighter: nothing changes
Monk: loses Ki Strike (probably doesn't matter since most sources of DR won't exist), Wholeness of Body (7), Diamond Body (11), Diamond Soul (13), Quivering Palm (15), Empty Body (19), Perfect Self (20)
Paladin: Loses everything (spellcasting, turn undead, Grace, etc) except Aura of Good and Divine Health
Ranger: Just loses spellcasting; should keep everything else including animal companion
Rogue: Probably nothing changes (and doesn't need to jump through lots of hoops to sneak attack undead, constructs, oozes, etc.)
Sorcerer: Loses everything
Wizard: Loses everything
Factotum: Unclear if Inspiration Points are broken or banned; if so Factotum loses pretty much everything.
Favored Soul: Loses spellcasting and other abilities except Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization, and maybe Wings (although probably don't get Wings -- I think their origin is magical, even if their use is (Ex))
Hexblade: Loses everything except Mettle, but that's probably not so useful since almost all the things it protects against are spells/supernatural. Maybe still useful against some poisons/diseases?
Marshal: Interesting that all abilities, including the Auras are (Ex) abilities that don't mention any supernatural or magical source, so probably lose nothing...

I'm out of time... maybe someone else can work through the other major base classes (Ninja, Samurai, Shaman, Shugenja, Sohei, Spellthief, Spirit Shaman, Swashbuckler, Warlock, Warmage, Wu Jen, Archivist, Beguiler, Dragon Shaman, Duskblade, Knight -- that's excluding the Psionic, ToB, Incarnate, Shadowcaster, Truenamer, etc as I gather they don't exist in OP's world.)

[Gildedragon]

Re: Factotums
Inspiration is a natural ability (not Ex, Su, nor Sp) and thus not lost
however certain uses are lost:
Arcane Dilettante (Sp)
Opportunistic Piety (Su) and
Cunning Breach (Su) (which don't matter cause there is no spells to resist)

Cunning Surge still remains, and that is one of the Factotum's strongest abilities.
Knowledge Devotion still works as well.

[HalfQuart]

Inspiration is a natural ability (not Ex, Su, nor Sp) and thus not lost

Yes, however the OP also said:

no alternatives to magic left (including TOB, Incarnum and Truenamers)
... so it depends on whether Inspiration is an "alternative to magic" by the OP's definition.

[Vaz]

Barbarian would lose it's Pounce. It's a Supernatural effect gained from the Spirit Totem Variant (it's not Lion Totem, it's Spirit Lion Totem, from Complete Champion).

[Gildedragon]

Yes, however the OP also said:

... so it depends on whether Inspiration is an "alternative to magic" by the OP's definition.

it is no more an alternative to magic than Flurry of Blows is.
Truenaming is a magic system, as is shadowcasting, and spirit binding is supernatural in its entirety

Regardless IPs aren't magic, no more than skill-points or a barb's land movement are. They are not even fluffed as remotely magical, but little eureka moments.

as for ToB...
I can see Su and Sp maneuvers and stances being affected, but the capacity to throw people, or jump at them... that ain't magic, but their fiat

[atemu1234]

Again, this is likely to be a relatively temporary measure. There will be a few quests dedicated to restoring magic, and the PC who winds up doing it will have fun. But the problem is roleplaying the socioeconomic problems this caused.

[John Longarrow]

For the social impact, think Mad Max.
Fuel = Magic.

[atemu1234]

For the social impact, think Mad Max.
Fuel = Magic.

Problem being, there's still kingdoms, albeit nonmagical ones. I've decided to give the setting 100 years for events to unfold before the new PCs show up. Any ideas for what should happen in the meantime?

[Svata]

So you guys are upset because you CAN'T rely on magical solutions to everything and actually need to rely on skill checks and actually need to PREPARE for a quest in advance? (BTW, simple solution to avoiding the power of a high level Wiz/Sorc is to... not allow Lords of Madness.)

No, everyone is upset because you took away every option except "I hit it with a pointy stick", and talking. The game gets boring quickly, due to lac of options.

[atemu1234]

No, everyone is upset because you took away every option except "I hit it with a pointy stick", and talking. The game gets boring quickly, due to lac of options.

Again, meant to be temporary. And I am giving the PCs magic. Just taking it from everywhere else. Seemed interesting. Obviously a lot of encounters can't happen due to the loss of abilities, but many just become more interesting.

[Gildedragon]

It all depends on a couple things

* how important was magic for the sustenance of life (water, food, sanitation)
the more important it is the more drastic the failing of these will be
expect a move away from the cities and into the fields (provided there are still fields and people still work the land and hunt)

* how important was magic for infrastructure? this is related to the above, but this means trade, communication, army movement, manufacturing... etcetera
The more important it was, the more embedded it was, the more difficult attaining control will be. With a system that used gates and teleportation circles roads might not even be a thing. Dense vast wilderness will blanket the land. At the very least, control over vast territories will be broken and power will fall on local nobles.

* who has the power for political control. When people say the magic users will be lynched or coup d'etated people are wrong. These people weren't mages first in society. They were aristocrats first. Expect them to have networks of people and allegiances; or at least as much as any other noble. If these mage-kings didn't hold the reigns, they still held legitimacy. One can expect those with milit.might and polit.might to coercively marry into the once regnant families to establish a powerbase.

Different cities and different states will have different responses. Cities will probably retain much of their status as that Great Place of Greatness. But the ones that keep access to trade (port cities etc) will be the ones that will remain alive.

But regardless, cities will shrink and fall (literally and metaphorically) The Eternal City will be looted as raiders manage to break through the riverine walls, the Gilded Quarter of the Efreet will slowly be scavenged for its brass. Cities that were anchored to the heavens fall, causing vast devastation. Wards that kept volcanoes from exploding and islands from sinking fail...

A lot! Those Clerics with ranks in Heal will probably retain much of their social standing as healers. It is probably what they did most of the time anyways, sparing their spells for critical conditions.
Rites and ceremonies are kept. Canny wizards use alchemy to pretend they still got their powers.



Read: The Magic Goes Away and related stories by L. Niven for some great ideas

[atemu1234]

It all depends on a couple things

* how important was magic for the sustenance of life (water, food, sanitation)
the more important it is the more drastic the failing of these will be
expect a move away from the cities and into the fields (provided there are still fields and people still work the land and hunt)

* how important was magic for infrastructure? this is related to the above, but this means trade, communication, army movement, manufacturing... etcetera
The more important it was, the more embedded it was, the more difficult attaining control will be. With a system that used gates and teleportation circles roads might not even be a thing. Dense vast wilderness will blanket the land. At the very least, control over vast territories will be broken and power will fall on local nobles.

* who has the power for political control. When people say the magic users will be lynched or coup d'etated people are wrong. These people weren't mages first in society. They were aristocrats first. Expect them to have networks of people and allegiances; or at least as much as any other noble. If these mage-kings didn't hold the reigns, they still held legitimacy. One can expect those with milit.might and polit.might to coercively marry into the once regnant families to establish a powerbase.

But regardless, cities will shrink. A lot! Those Clerics with ranks in Heal will probably retain much of their social standing as healers. It is probably what they did most of the time anyways, sparing their spells for critical conditions.

Rites and ceremonies are kept. Canny wizards use alchemy to pretend they still got their powers.

Cities that were anchored to the heavens fall, causing vast devastation. Wards that kept volcanoes from exploding and islands from sinking fail...

Read: The Magic Goes Away and related stories by L. Niven for some great ideas

Again, I must stress there never was divine magic in this campaign setting. The healers were either adepts, bards or experts.

[Gildedragon]

Again, I must stress there never was divine magic in this campaign setting. The healers were either adepts, bards or experts.

Point stands though. also note that adepts are divine casters, not arcane.
But you can refluff it as you will (but in case of refluffing, priests of gods (that do nothing) would still exist. That they do sorcerous magic drawn from the cleric spellcasting list isn't much of a stretch

[Svata]

To be fair, though, I did run a campaign where anyone who used arcane magic was dying. If you cast an arcane spell, or used an SLA you didn't get from you race or an inherited template, you took 1d8+spell level Constitution burn damage. However, everyone knew it before going into the campaig, and even helped me hammer out the details of the damage. Itwas done by an evil druid who saw arcane magic as a violation of the natural order, and who had managed to find an obscure (homebrew) artifact that could kill off any group of people. The same artifact was the reason that there had been no aberrations in the world for several hundred years (same druid, the artifact just needed a 175 year recharge time). In between he tried to use it to eradicate undead, but you can't do con damage to undead.

[atemu1234]

Point stands though. also note that adepts are divine casters, not arcane.
But you can refluff it as you will (but in case of refluffing, priests of gods (that do nothing) would still exist. That they do sorcerous magic drawn from the cleric spellcasting list isn't much of a stretch

I believe they can be either, according to the DM's guide.

[bekeleven]

The most important thing is that your party is on the same page. When you insert a Ms. Mary Sue Gamebreaker into your party, be sure the other PCs don't mind. I don't say this just because a tier 2 caster is going to upset what I assume is a low-tier-4 party, although that's a concern. More to the point is if the other players see her as getting exceptions to the rules that you won't allow others - rules that you seems otherwise adamant to make very, very universal (invoke magic is banned, fey are dying, potions lose magic, etc) you threaten either their relationship with you, or their relationship with your plot-holed world.

Maybe I am sensitive because "the rule breaker"/"special magician" is a hallmark of terrible fantasy stories, most of which have mary sues. See: Wheel of Time.

[HalfQuart]

Just for the record, I think you've got a fine idea. It does definitely make things complicated, and if you were to do it long-term would be problematic... generally when people ask for help taking magic out of D&D I think the default advice of "just find a different system to play besides D&D" is good advice, but here where it's a temporary thing it could just be fun for your players.

But to really answer your question about what societies would be like, I think it depends a lot on what your societies were like before the disappearance of magic Are you starting from something like a Tippyverse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy)? If so, creating an anti-Tippyverse would be a pretty dramatic change. If you started out with things mostly like medieval Europe, but with magic, after 100 years you'd probably end up with just medieval Europe.

But in general some things that I would see change: The monstrous humanoids: Orcs, Gnolls, etc. and giants: Ettins, Ogres, Giants, which with magic present may have been forced to live as barbarians on the fridges of "humanity", but immediately after the fall of magic may have overrun the strongholds of humans and now be the default race instead of humans -- with humans now living just in the wastelands or as slaves.

[atemu1234]

The most important thing is that your party is on the same page. When you insert a Ms. Mary Sue Gamebreaker into your party, be sure the other PCs don't mind. I don't say this just because a tier 2 caster is going to upset what I assume is a low-tier-4 party, although that's a concern. More to the point is if the other players see her as getting exceptions to the rules that you won't allow others - rules that you seems otherwise adamant to make very, very universal (invoke magic is banned, fey are dying, potions lose magic, etc) you threaten either their relationship with you, or their relationship with your plot-holed world.

Maybe I am sensitive because "the rule breaker"/"special magician" is a hallmark of terrible fantasy stories, most of which have mary sues. See: Wheel of Time.

Nah. Not a mary sue, because I nerfed her magic, as it were. It's gotten a lot more difficult to find spells, so I took that into account, as well as made plans for other powerful enemies to begin to show up.

[Gildedragon]

I believe they can be either, according to the DM's guide.

Not really here nor there but as per the DMG:
An adept casts divine spells (the same type of spells available to the cleric, druid, paladin, and ranger), which are drawn from the adept spell list.

But as I said, neither here nor there. You just change the Divine to Arcane and give it ASF (virtually the only crunchy diff between them).



It can be somewhat Msuish to have one v. special caster. But provided you don't make the stuff about her you avert the risk.
... Which is why I recommend planar shenanigans. the "why can she do magic" doesn't matter, what matters is fixing the world. Finding something in the many planes of existence that can pump magic back into the world before it is too late.
The mystery of her magic is mostly a mcguff to get them to power a planar gate to go to Sigil or the City of Brass or the Opaline Vault, or the Peal something, or the Gith Capital, or that interplanar tavern.
PCs get their powers back but they are in more daunting environments, rushing to save their world. They might meet a couple of the hoitytoity wizzes/dragons/etc that made it out, allies of all alignments because they ain't that fond of being locked out of their homes.

[Vaz]

As a quick aside, I've done a none magical, dark ages type game, utilising a crashed comet which was unleashing all sorts of wierd on the land (Hi, Diablo!), but was actually the bringer of magic - in this instance, Essentia, but it also awoke within it magic, psionics, and all other types of magic.

If you want to keep the Sorcerer from being too powerful, perhaps drop her back to Bard progression.

[Graypairofsocks]

You can restore magic to a small(not actually sure of the area, but I think it is decent) area of a Dead Magic zone with Wish.

[atemu1234]

You can restore magic to a small(not actually sure of the area, but I think it is decent) area of a Dead Magic zone with Wish.

Maybe that'll be the endgame, but I'm thinking about making it so she can only learn magic spells from established magical tablets, because scrolls are gone and books have burned, so she either discovers spells on her own or learns from stone tablets.

[Graypairofsocks]

A clarification about restoring magic to an area: Wish and Miracle can repair a 30 foot radius of a dead magic zone.

I wonder if living creatures are dieing because the positive energy plane has been cut off from your plane?

I assume that dead magic zones won't automatically suppress Epic Spells((Anti-magic fields don't do it automatically they have to make a level check), as I don't recall any clarifying rules and DMZs are based on anti-magic field.

I also wonder what the effect the lack of magic would have on an Stone/Iron Colossus, because not only are they immune to magic(they also have the 3rd edition version of it which should have been updated), they also radiate an anti-magic field.




And you have to take in account that there are creatures that live only because of magic, supported by NO biological means: undeads and constructs (warforged too) would instantly die.
They wouldn't instantly die as the magic that animates them is inherent in them, they may probably "die" faster though.



Planar Binding:
1) The binds, which are magical in nature, should no longer exist. They're free, but cannot return home. Guess who they'll be upset at for putting them in this situation?
Note that some lawful creatures may still honor the contract(and some may not as they may claim it was made under duress).



3) Elementals that were bound may or may not simply collapse. I'd lean towards collapse since magic is the only explanation I can think of for a sentient, mobile pile of rocks.
I would lean towards die over time, as elementals are actually living creatures(somehow) and they still work in dead magic fields.



Undead are typically animated via magic.
Yes, but they are powered by negative energy(which may stop working).

Zombies and Skeletons would likely cease to be animated, though other undead that are less explicitly held together by magic could probably still function.
They aren't held together by magic(Animate Dead's duration is instantaneous), they are held together by negative energy.


Any control spells you employ will again, no longer be there. I'd be willing to concede that there are undead out there that could simply be created via magical means, but are not inherently magical in any way and control over those should be retained.
Yeah all control spells would be gone.

Even if an undead was completely non-magical(very unlikely), it still would not be controlled by a control spell in this situation.

However I don't know about the control some undead have over their spawn, the control from Rebuke/Command Undead(the Rebuke/Command ability is definitely magical, but no idea about the control though), or the Control over undead created by Animate Dead.


Any undead will start to rot thoroughly since you can no longer apply Gentle Repose, so there's a timer on a lot of them.
Only Non-Intelligent Undead(like most zombies & skeletons) don't heal over time, the rest do, although having the negative energy plane cut off might mess with that.


Constructs are almost certainly all inert due to being animate by magic.
The magic in most constructs is inherent(although most Animated Objects are an exception), so it won't go away in a normal dead magic field, however in this they would possibly become destroyed either faster or slower than normal.

Simulacrums. . . I could go either way on.
I would say they would become slushed ice pretty soon.


In fact, the residents of a number of the planes may be doing their damndest to get things made right. Mechanicus may create a new kind of inevitable dedicated to the preservation of magic just to stop this from screwing up the multiverse ever again.

There is a type of inevitable called a Quarut (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50174.jpg)(from Fiend Folio), it protects space & time/reality(Usually from wizards who have access to Wish apparently).

I would say removing magic completely from a plane is a big affront to reality.

[atemu1234]

A clarification about restoring magic to an area: Wish and Miracle can repair a 30 foot radius of a dead magic zone.

I wonder if living creatures are dieing because the positive energy plane has been cut off from your plane?

I assume that dead magic zones won't automatically suppress Epic Spells((Anti-magic fields don't do it automatically they have to make a level check), as I don't recall any clarifying rules and DMZs are based on anti-magic field.

I also wonder what the effect the lack of magic would have on an Stone/Iron Colossus, because not only are they immune to magic(they also have the 3rd edition version of it which should have been updated), they also radiate an anti-magic field.




They wouldn't instantly die as the magic that animates them is inherent in them, they may probably "die" faster though.



Note that some lawful creatures may still honor the contract(and some may not as they may claim it was made under duress).


I would lean towards die over time, as elementals are actually living creatures(somehow) and they still work in dead magic fields.



Yes, but they are powered by negative energy(which may stop working).

They aren't held together by magic(Animate Dead's duration is instantaneous), they are held together by negative energy.


Yeah all control spells would be gone.

Even if an undead was completely non-magical(very unlikely), it still would not be controlled by a control spell in this situation.

However I don't know about the control some undead have over their spawn, the control from Rebuke/Command Undead(the Rebuke/Command ability is definitely magical, but no idea about the control though), or the Control over undead created by Animate Dead.


Only Non-Intelligent Undead(like most zombies & skeletons) don't heal over time, the rest do, although having the negative energy plane cut off might mess with that.


The magic in most constructs is inherent(although most Animated Objects are an exception), so it won't go away in a normal dead magic field, however in this they would possibly become destroyed either faster or slower than normal.

I would say they would become slushed ice pretty soon.



There is a type of inevitable called a Quarut (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50174.jpg)(from Fiend Folio), it protects space & time/reality(Usually from wizards who have access to Wish apparently).

I would say removing magic completely from a plane is a big affront to reality.


Humans aren't dying from being cut off from the positive energy plane any more than you'd be if you didn't have a party cleric. This is why the campaign never had divine magic- because if they became dependent on healing, quite simply the break would be even worse.

[Eric Tolle]

Again, this is likely to be a relatively temporary measure. There will be a few quests dedicated to restoring magic, and the PC who winds up doing it will have fun. But the problem is roleplaying the socioeconomic problems this caused.

I'd start by looking up the Bronze Age Collapse. And the first Woodside if Connections on Youtube. And consider that the effects of your magic purge will likely be far more extensive than the Bronze age collapse. Basically, the clock will be ticking for a collapse of society. You said that magic was in common use, so here are some effects:

Warfare: your tank equivalents are now just scholars. They will die rapidly, either from being killed by their own non-magical servants, by starvation, or finding that magic was a key component of their stronghold.

Consider some other things:

Forging/metalwork: a sitting magical use area. Does anyone even know how to make a non-magical forge? Or to do non-magical smelting or mining?

Weaving/Clothmaking: another during candidate for magical assistance, so no clothing or blankets being made. But that's a minor problem.

Agriculture: the prime area for magical assistance in a huge number of ways. Magic can easily double productivity, and beyond that there's the possibility for even greater on magic, which may mean your farms won't work at all. Which is a problem, because your population will grow to match production...

Transport/Storage: magical and replacements for transportation, and magical methods to store food are gone. So goods aren't being moved, the upshot of which is...

Cities. The clock begins ticking. Libby and heat and cooking and water sources are gone. The food spoils and there's no more coming in. You have a matter of days, possibly hours, to get someplace safer. Except there isn't anyplace safer.

But the nobles have an army! Which needs food. And clothing. And weaponry. And if you can't feed them, it's time to take food from somebody else. Assuming others don't have the same idea as you.

There's going to be hundreds of "for want of a nail" situations like the above going on, in all kinds of areas. So what does this mean?

Societal collapse, and mass death.

It's really hard to predict how many would die. You might get lucky and only say, 70-80% of the populace will die. But in any case, empires and kingdoms would disappear, cities would be largely abandoned and reformed as smaller entities, and society would reform around smaller defensible city-states at best, or even clan holdings.

Analysis of economic collapses in pre-industrial societies seen to point toward a five-hundred year gap between collapse and real rebuilding. At a hundred years, this would still be in the dust settling phase- there would be people alive who's grandparents told stories of the great magical civilization that fell. Life would be hard as people still try to regain basic technologies like metalworking and stabbing. The material culture would be crude, possibly early bronze age.

Cults and mythologies will likely arise telling of how mankind's sins caused the gods to crush humanity. Magic may be something nanas tell children about to scare them with, with magic users as boogeyman.