Ways to improve gloves of Endless Javelins

[Jowgen]

The Gloves of Endless Javelins, from the Manticore set from the MIC, produce +1 Javelins made of Force as a free action that last for 1 attack/till the end of your turn.

Other than the ever-reliable Knowledge Devotion, does anyone know of any item/trick that would allow one to further improve these Javelins to add any kind of extra damage/effect to them?

[Darrin]

I've been trying to put together a Stormlord (Complete Divine) build that uses the Gloves of Endless Javelins, but the problem with Stormlord is it screws up your BAB if you wanted to focus on that, and the 5/10 casting screws up your casting if you wanted to focus on that.

[cosmonuts]

There are these MIC arm slot items that add thundering SA to your weapons. Including endless javelins.

Unless you're grabbing bracers of armor or bracers of archery, it's not likely you have anything better for that arm slot.

[Jowgen]

There are these MIC arm slot items that add thundering SA to your weapons

Found them, Bracers of Lightning, p. 206. They seem to do almost exactly what I want, but the wording seems a bit unclear on whether the Swift-action activated Shocking SA benefit would apply to all my attacks in a round, which my DM might rule against me. Also, 11000 gp seems a bit steep for what they do. :/

EDIT: NVM the point about whether it applies to all attacks, I re-read the description in detail and it works fine. Still, a cheaper (if weaker) option would be awesome

[Ikeren]

Well weapon bonuses after the first +1 are 6000gp, so 11000gp for a slotless +1d6 lightning damage is cheap.

There are lots and lots and lots of +damage spells with various durations.

Combat Expertise + Deadly Defense: -2 Attack, +2 AC, +1d6 damage. Add in Martial Stance and it's -2 attack for +2d6 damage, which rocks out power attack by a bit.
Weapon Specialization
Sneak Attack + Craven. Sneak Attack can come from items:

Items: From the Two Weapon Fighting Offhandbook

Third Eye Surge (2100 GP, MIC). Charged item that provides a +2/+3/+4 insight bonus on Str/Dex-based checks and on weapon damage for 1 round. Note that the text doesn’t specify “melee weapon damage”, so this will also work on ranged attacks.
Gauntlets of War (4000 GP, Complete Champion). Just for wearing these gauntlets, you get a +1 untyped bonus to melee weapon damage. If you worship a deity that has the War domain in its portfolio and you're wielding the deity's favored weapon, this untyped bonus goes up to +3.
Rogue's Vest (18000 GP, MIC). A little on the expensive side, but this is a must-get for any build relying on skirmish, sneak attack, or sudden strike damage. If you're just looking for something to increase your sneak attack/sudden strike damage, consider the more limited but cheaper Mantle of the Predator (8000 GP, MIC).

[ArqArturo]

Stormlord :smallcool:.

[Yorrin]

Is this for an existing character, or are you trying to come up with a build? You could dip one level in Shiba Protector to get Wis to hit and damage. Combine with Zen Archery for fun and profit. Bonus points for also having a couple of levels in Paladin with Serenity and at least one in Monk (which can help you hit the Shiba Protector prereqs with the right ACF to grab one of the required feats), for a strongly Wis SAD build.

[Jowgen]

Is this for an existing character, or are you trying to come up with a build?

It's for a character in making, a Thug Fighter 6 Master Thrower 3, but the class level have already been discussed with the DM, so I can't really change them. I'm going with a volley build (Rapid shot, TWF tree), which combined with Palm Throw (been allowed to down-size the Javelin's to darts), currently leaves me with 10 hits a round, hence my quest to squeeze a little extra out of each hit.

EDIT: Thinking of dropping TWF and GTWF for Weapon Specialization and Ranged Weapon mastery, trading +4 damage per projectile (so 8 per attack roll) for 1 less attack and a -4 to hit on my no-TWF off-hand throw.


Well weapon bonuses after the first +1 are 6000gp, so 11000gp for a slotless +1d6 lightning damage is cheap

Fair enough, though the swift action activation somewhat bugs me.


Sneak Attack + Craven. Sneak Attack can come from items:

Have sadly been unable to find something that grants sneak attack dice to someone that doesn't have it as a class feature. (Mantle of the Predator was close, but is sadly melee only). Can not play a rogue due to... reasons.


There are lots and lots and lots of +damage spells with various durations.

Any that you could recommend for a continuous custom item? Ideally something that isn't overly cheesy (e.g. Guided Shot), as my DM is quite the Master Thrower when it comes to DMGs. As for items, Third eye surge is good, but I'll probably go for Third Eye clarity instead. Gauntlets of War will definitely go on my next melee character.

[Blackhawk748]

Well there is Assassin's Stance, but i think that might be a bit to late without a Swordsage dip.

On a slightly off topic note, why is Stormlord bad? i looked at it on DnD tools and its a 3/4 BaB full casting progression class, so its a solid cleric PrC.

[Vizzerdrix]

Stormlord :smallcool:.

And why not? It wouldn't mess with casting at all so it isn't a bad PrC. And advancing a divine list means getting access to Divine power and Righteous Might on schedule for the BAB to not matter at all.

[Pinkie Pyro]

how much of this would work with greater tentacle rod? (magic item compendium pg 62)

[Sian]

as its free to get a new Javelin ... Tormtor School (Drow of the Underdark) prehaps?

[Erik Vale]

Tomtor School. Stab someone with the javalin and then throw it, doubling your attacks.

Enchanting, if you can get it approved... Go for exploding, unlimited force fireballs.

[Baroknik]

Tomtor School. Stab someone with the javalin and then throw it, doubling your attacks.

Enchanting, if you can get it approved... Go for exploding, unlimited force fireballs.

Tomtor School can only add 1 attack, as it takes a swift action to use. It does give +1 damage to javs, though.

[TiaC]

Have sadly been unable to find something that grants sneak attack dice to someone that doesn't have it as a class feature. (Mantle of the Predator was close, but is sadly melee only). Can not play a rogue due to... reasons.

There is a Fighter variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) that gains SA instead of feats.

[Clistenes]

These gloves only produce one javelin per round, doesn't they?

[Erik Vale]

Nope. Free action generation.

[Darrin]

These gloves only produce one javelin per round, doesn't they?

Gauntlet of Infinite Blades is a swift action (once per round).

[Jowgen]

On a slightly off topic note, why is Stormlord bad? i looked at it on DnD tools and its a 3/4 BaB full casting progression class, so its a solid cleric PrC

For this character, its mainly that the Gloves of Endless Javelins and Bracer's of lighting effectively duplicate the Stormlord's 1st and 3rd level benefit; not to mention I would have to juggle some cleric levels into the mix and somehow try to meet prerequisites for both Master Thrower and Stormlord.


how much of this would work with greater tentacle rod? (magic item compendium pg 62)

Ummm... I think the Bracers of lighting would work with the greater tentacle rod, making each hit 9 +1d6 damage; although I could easily see a DM ruling against it (e.g. it doesn't use your attack bonus, so its not your attack or something)


Enchanting, if you can get it approved... Go for exploding, unlimited force fireballs.

I REALLY wish I could get enchanting approved somehow, but other than the bracers of lighting suggested earlier, I don't even know where to start building an argument for a custom item of "make everything I throw explode/do x". Seriously, unless I get my DM drunk and convince him that the Necklace of Natural Weapons and the Bracers of Lighting should have a reasonably priced baby, I have no idea how to even start going about making a gp price estimate.


There is a Fighter variant that gains SA instead of feats.

I'd take it if this build didn't need feats like -insert humorous analogy here-.


Tomtor School can only add 1 attack, as it takes a swift action to use. It does give +1 damage to javs, though.

Still, I'd definitely take that for the versatility and little extra damage, but sadly I got my DM to re-fluff Javelins to Darts, for the purpose of qualifying for Palm Toss.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I've been trying to put together a Stormlord (Complete Divine) build that uses the Gloves of Endless Javelins, but the problem with Stormlord is it screws up your BAB if you wanted to focus on that, and the 5/10 casting screws up your casting if you wanted to focus on that.
What? My copy shows it as medium BAB and 10/10 casting. Not that BAB matters as a cleric. Cloistered Cleric + Knowledge Devotion + Zen Archery + Divine Power + infinite +3 Shocking Burst Javelins seems like it'd work decent well.

[Gemini476]

Have you considered Bloodstorm BladeToB? Two levels gives you Power Attack with your javelins, as well as being able to treat your ranged attacks with thrown weapons as melee attacks for the purpose of strength bonus, feats, melee attack bonus, etc.

You'll need 8 ranks in balance, Point Blank Shot, and knowledge of one Iron Heart maneuver and one Iron Heart stance to be able to enter the PrC, but that's not that difficult to reach.

[Jowgen]

Have you considered Bloodstorm BladeToB?

My DM is amongst those who affectionately refer to the ToB as "The book of weeaboo fightan magic", so sadly it is a no go. Should've probably mentioned that in the opening post... I have considered "Power Throw", to get power attack on thrown weapons, but the prereqs are way to steep for my taste.

[squiggit]

I've been trying to put together a Stormlord (Complete Divine) build that uses the Gloves of Endless Javelins, but the problem with Stormlord is it screws up your BAB if you wanted to focus on that, and the 5/10 casting screws up your casting if you wanted to focus on that.
Stormlord gives full casting progression.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Still, I'd definitely take that for the versatility and little extra damage, but sadly I got my DM to re-fluff Javelins to Darts, for the purpose of qualifying for Palm Toss.

Nothing sad about that! Opens up palm toss *and* Shadow Blade feat! I just in general like dipping Swordsage for Master Thrower entry, eventually taking SS 2 for Assassin's Stance; means you don't need rogue or can go martial rogue and still get SA for Craven feat and possibly Staggering Strike (though that's melee only).

I'm pretty sure I've seen many a post wishing that there was a dagger item that worked like gloves of endless javelins, I know I've wished it was so. You hit the jackpot! :smallsmile:

[Baroknik]

No absolute need for cleric, you miss the last 3 CL of the class, but you could go DC 3 to qualify for storm lord.
Take War and get those sexy fighters spells.
Or take Storms cause thematics...

[Jowgen]

I'm pretty sure I've seen many a post wishing that there was a dagger item that worked like gloves of endless javelins, I know I've wished it was so. You hit the jackpot!

I made an argument that Darts are described as "Essentially, it is a small javelin." in the PHB, and that the gloves do not specify what size the javelins have to be, so making Gloves that are calibrated to create small Javelins that function as darts (akin to the weapon equivalency variant from the DMG pg. 27) is far from disbelieve able. :smallsmile:


Also, something just occurred to me. The Javelins/Darts created are made out of "pure force", which as far as I know, is always invisible (e.g. wall of force, great wyrm force dragon, etc). There is a substance in Complete Scoundrel called Bladeshimmer, which
"renders an object invisible. Anyone holding an affected object appears to have an empty hand, though keen eyes can spot something out of place. Use the bearer’s Sleight of Hand check result (with a +10 competence bonus) as the DC for the observer’s Spot check. If you attack with a weapon coated with bladeshimmer, the target is considered flat-footed unless it succeeds on a Spot check to notice something unusual."

Based on this, how reasonable would it be to argue that the Javelin's invisibility should provide some added benefit?

On the most extreme end, one could argue a constant blade-shimmer effect, but that strikes me as pungent Stilton that would make a bow with the Force special ability the absolute default for any ranged rogue. RAW wise, it would be easy (and rather reasonable) to argue that the invisibility isn't stated to have a benefit, so it doesn't.

Still, when you consider the Master Thrower's Sneaky Shot ability, or the Mosquito Bite skill trick, I just feel that the invisible nature of the javelins should at times affect game play. :smallconfused:

[Baroknik]

I never pictured the javs as invisible, more transparent/translucent.

Also, dunno if mosquito's bite would work post level 3... How do they not notice a thundering weapon?

[Ellowryn]

For the idea about improving the gloves, have you asked your Dm if you can enchant them like any other magic weapon? Or if you do go stormlord, ask if the bonus to javalins granted by the class can stack with the bonus already on the item? It sounds like your DM is willing to go out of his way to help people get the flavor they want out of their builds so either of theses options shouldnt be a big deal.

[Jowgen]

Never pictured the javs as invisible, more transparent/translucent.

Also, dunno if mosquito's bite would work post level 3... How do they not notice a thundering weapon?

I've looked at a bunch of force effect spells and such, and they are only ever described as invisible, if anything. The thing about the Shocking ability from the Bracers of Lightning is a good point though as "a shock weapon is sheathed in crackling electricity", which would make the darts considerably less invisible. Still, I can see situations where not using the Shocking ability in order to get some extra sneakiness out of the javelins might be worthwhile. Mosqito Bite is purely for fun, but I'd like to see it benefiting from the use of an invisible projectile.


For the idea about improving the gloves, have you asked your Dm if you can enchant them like any other magic weapon? Or if you do go stormlord, ask if the bonus to javalins granted by the class can stack with the bonus already on the item? It sounds like your DM is willing to go out of his way to help people get the flavor they want out of their builds so either of theses options shouldnt be a big deal.

I myself wouldn't allow the straight-up enchanting of the gloves, or let the shocking from two different sources stack, so I have sorta-moral qualms about asking my DM for it. I am, however, considering asking him if I can trade out the Shocking from the bracers for another +1 Special ability, probably Magebane, which he might go for.

[Troacctid]

Also, dunno if mosquito's bite would work post level 3... How do they not notice a thundering weapon?

They'd hear the thunder without realizing something hit them, I assume.

[squiggit]

but you could go DC 3 to qualify for storm lord.

Is there a deity with favored weapon(javelin)? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

[Baroknik]

Laogzed (Complete Divine) and Hoar (FRCS) both have favored weapon javelin. However, Hoar is LN/LE (depending on time period) and Laogzed is CE, so Laogzed is probably the better choice to be chosen if you are also worshipping Talon. He's the god of troglodytes though, so yeah...

OR you could just pick up one level of warblade...

[Captnq]

Hrrrmmmmm...

The javelins last until the end of your turn or until you make an attack, eh?

ICECHUCKER
- FROSTBURN (3.5)
Exotic Ranged Weapon
Cost: 150 gp
Damage (s): 1d10
Damage (m): 1d12
Critical: x3
Range: 30 ft
Weight: 12 lb
Type: P
Ammo: Ice, Javelin
The icechucker appears to be a large crossbow at a casual glance, larger even than a heavy crossbow. Its launching mechanism is designed to fire large shards of ice (usually icicles) rather than regular crossbow bolts. You draw an icechucker back by pulling on a thick lever on the underside of the weapon. Loading an icechucker is a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. If icicles aren’t handy to load into an icechucker, it can also be used to fire a javelin, dealing the same damage.


So that can up your damage to 1d12

Add quickloading and self-loading and reloading and all those to reduce firing time to a free action then stack on the WSAs until your javelin is a bolt of death

[Jowgen]

OR you could just pick up one level of warblade...

Weeabo fightan magic and DC 3 are sadly not options with this DM.


it can also be used to fire a javelin

So effectively, you're buying the Force special property (a +2) for a flat 7000 gp. That is beautiful.

As for the invisibility issue, I've asked my DM to look up Bladeshimmer from Complete Scoundrel and consider the implications for my character.