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View Full Version : Deciding on character for Epic Gestalt campaign.



Judge_Worm
2014-05-26, 07:18 PM
About to start an Epic Level gestalt campaign in 3.5. We're starting at level 15 and I've come up with 4 options I want to play, just haven't decided which. Need help deciding, main factor is fun not optimization or playability, yes most of these are silly gestalt combos, I know.

Option 1. Winged Kobold Half-Dragon, Wizard/Sorcerer. Tarmax was always gifted with an ability to use magic. He decided to bolster his natural gift by studying. (Half-Dragon 5/Sorcerer 14/Wizard 11)

Option 2. Treant, Druid/Anagok. Tregan is a prodigy from their grove. They have combined both divine and arcane spellcasting. (Treant 6/ Druid 12/ Anagok 12)

Option 3. Half-Orc, Rogue/Expert. Guy has long fought his heritage by becoming a well respected diplomat. Guy also has a keen ability to get into places. (Rogue 15/ Expert 15)

Option 4. Human, Cleric/Paladin. Ishma has always been a servant of Anubis from the day the priesthood took her in as a baby. (Cleric 15/ Paladin 15) *never played a paladin before.

So, which sounds most fun from an RP point of view?


Edit:
I chose a LN human cloistered cleric/crusader (desert wind stance) of Anubis, domains- Repose, Law, Knowledge.
So the party;
NG Half-Elf, Half-Elf Paragon 3/Elf Paragon 3/Human Paragon 3/Expert 6/Bard 15. NN Winged Half-Dragon Silverbrow Human , Dragon 6/Sorcerer 12/Psychic Warrior 12. LN Human, Cloistered Cleric 15/Crusader 15. NN Dryad, Fey 5/Druid 13/Barbarian 12. LG Goblin Lich, Paladin 15/Focused Necromancer 15. And NPC LG Celestial Dwarf Saint, Planar Ranger 15/Adept 15.

aleucard
2014-05-27, 12:12 AM
Personally, I'd like to see something a bit more interesting. Sorcerer(Mailman)/Rogue would be a near-ideal sneak-gish, especially with some of the Epic feats that sneaky types can use (all AoO's are sneak attacks, can use touch spells in AoO, infinite AoO, etc.).

Really, though, it all depends on how masochistic the DM happens to be. Epic levels swiftly get into the absolutely silly range in 3.5, and few are able or even willing to handle that. Try and gauge how strong your other players are going to be for us, and we'll be able to give better recommendations.

EDIT: In the interest of making my post relevant to your exact wants, I'll analyze your given options.

#1. Kobold's a long-standing standard in the realm of High-Op Fu, and since you're going into Epic, may as well go into it face-first. The levels in Half-Dragon only make sense if you're not taking LA buyoff and somehow have something that lets you take levels in your racial class, which makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever both in how AND why you'd do it. The fact that you're 1 and 4 levels behind in both classes respectively just makes it make even less sense, especially since that's where a lot of your ability to do relevant things comes from.

#2. Treant Druid is an amusing idea, though the LA stuff has similar issues with #1. I have absolutely zero idea what Anagok is, though, with google saying exactly ****all on this subject, so what exactly you're expecting to do with this is unknown. The fact that you're a full spell level behind in both when both are apparently full-casters is a red flag, though not as much as #1. Druids DO have other interesting things to do than just cast, and the BAB/HP to wade right in if needs be.

#3. Half-Orc is a bit odd for a cloak-n-dagger type, but flavorful choices like this are usually the most fun. Picking EXPERT as the second half, though, makes about as much sense as those Snape/Sirius Yaoi fanfictions that several people online seem to be so infatuated with. If you're wanting to be one with your inner Skill Monkey, pick Factotum or similar. Maybe something with better BAB/attacks and defenses not based on armor heavier than light, if you're wanting to be as combat-ready as possible. Monk is a good choice for Flurry of Backstabs and some acceptable low-armor defense, for instance.

#4. A Cleric or Paladin of a Death God like Anubis can always be an interesting experience, though why you are having both baffles me, with the singular exception of if the Cleric is Cloistered. If you go this route, go full-tilt with DMM, Battle Blessing for your Paladin levels, etcetera. You will be the Knight in Shining Armor incarnate, and likely be harder to kill than the rest of your party combined if you do it right (yes, this includes the twitchy Wizard with Craft Contingent Spell in the corner that's drinking from a hip flask so nobody else can poison him, despite having 5 different types of poison immunity active at the same time on any given moment). This works especially well if your DM allows you to take Gestalt PrC's, though if he does I worry for his sanity and health.

Bakkan
2014-05-27, 12:23 AM
I would choose the Treant mostly because I don't like gestalting two classes of the same archetype. From a flavor perspective, it seems like a waste to me; there's not a whole lot that a Sorcerer/Wizard suggests to me that a naturally talented Wizard or a particularly studious Sorcerer wouldn't. Even the Treant is a little close for me, being a gestalt of two Vancian casters. I like things like Wizard/Factotum, Bard/Warblade, or Archivist/Rogue, things that give you combinations of abiliteis that you don't normally see.

Judge_Worm
2014-05-27, 05:04 AM
Personally, I'd like to see something a bit more interesting. Sorcerer(Mailman)/Rogue would be a near-ideal sneak-gish, especially with some of the Epic feats that sneaky types can use (all AoO's are sneak attacks, can use touch spells in AoO, infinite AoO, etc.).

Really, though, it all depends on how masochistic the DM happens to be. Epic levels swiftly get into the absolutely silly range in 3.5, and few are able or even willing to handle that. Try and gauge how strong your other players are going to be for us, and we'll be able to give better recommendations.

EDIT: In the interest of making my post relevant to your exact wants, I'll analyze your given options.

#1. Kobold's a long-standing standard in the realm of High-Op Fu, and since you're going into Epic, may as well go into it face-first. The levels in Half-Dragon only make sense if you're not taking LA buyoff and somehow have something that lets you take levels in your racial class, which makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever both in how AND why you'd do it. The fact that you're 1 and 4 levels behind in both classes respectively just makes it make even less sense, especially since that's where a lot of your ability to do relevant things comes from.

#2. Treant Druid is an amusing idea, though the LA stuff has similar issues with #1. I have absolutely zero idea what Anagok is, though, with google saying exactly ****all on this subject, so what exactly you're expecting to do with this is unknown. The fact that you're a full spell level behind in both when both are apparently full-casters is a red flag, though not as much as #1. Druids DO have other interesting things to do than just cast, and the BAB/HP to wade right in if needs be.

#3. Half-Orc is a bit odd for a cloak-n-dagger type, but flavorful choices like this are usually the most fun. Picking EXPERT as the second half, though, makes about as much sense as those Snape/Sirius Yaoi fanfictions that several people online seem to be so infatuated with. If you're wanting to be one with your inner Skill Monkey, pick Factotum or similar. Maybe something with better BAB/attacks and defenses not based on armor heavier than light, if you're wanting to be as combat-ready as possible. Monk is a good choice for Flurry of Backstabs and some acceptable low-armor defense, for instance.

#4. A Cleric or Paladin of a Death God like Anubis can always be an interesting experience, though why you are having both baffles me, with the singular exception of if the Cleric is Cloistered. If you go this route, go full-tilt with DMM, Battle Blessing for your Paladin levels, etcetera. You will be the Knight in Shining Armor incarnate, and likely be harder to kill than the rest of your party combined if you do it right (yes, this includes the twitchy Wizard with Craft Contingent Spell in the corner that's drinking from a hip flask so nobody else can poison him, despite having 5 different types of poison immunity active at the same time on any given moment). This works especially well if your DM allows you to take Gestalt PrC's, though if he does I worry for his sanity and health.

Prestige classes, like racial adjustment have to appear on both sides for the first two levels (and carry a double multiclass penalty, because he doesn't want us taking umpteen million classes in a gestalt campaign.) We get two base classes (which must be directly linked to each other) and one racial, anything more is double multiclass penalty.

As for other players, of the 5 of us, only two have finished their chars, a Lawful Good Devil- Devil Paragon (homebrew)/Vow of Repentance Monk (homebrew), and an unaligned neutral neutral Mindflayer- Psion/Wilder.

As for the campaign, the backstory I can remember- Demons break through to the Farouterplanes (an entirely different dimension of planes) call forth the Outer Gods. Out pops Dagon who uses all the demons as a sacrifice to summon his master (as of yet unnamed, ia ia f'taghn), who in turn is trying to summon his masters. Unnamed Cthulhu is supposedly above all the gods in power, and itself pales in comparison to its masters. Then something about the cult of Nyalarthotep on the material plane, and Asmodeus sacrificing himself to give everyone that little bit of time that will conveniently run out when plot demands it. A little OOC for Asmodeus, but it makes sense in context.

Edit: I actually got a clarification- "1st no prestige classes in character creation. 2nd to take a prestige class you must immediately take two levels of it, one on each half of the gestalt, you then get a multiclass penalty for each half of the gestalt. Your preferred racial class (for example halforc barbarian) doesn't count against you, but it can only occupy one side. 3rd any additional classes you take must be explained in story or offered by me." -my DM.

aleucard
2014-05-27, 01:35 PM
Prestige classes, like racial adjustment have to appear on both sides for the first two levels (and carry a double multiclass penalty, because he doesn't want us taking umpteen million classes in a gestalt campaign.) We get two base classes (which must be directly linked to each other) and one racial, anything more is double multiclass penalty.

As for other players, of the 5 of us, only two have finished their chars, a Lawful Good Devil- Devil Paragon (homebrew)/Vow of Repentance Monk (homebrew), and an unaligned neutral neutral Mindflayer- Psion/Wilder.

As for the campaign, the backstory I can remember- Demons break through to the Farouterplanes (an entirely different dimension of planes) call forth the Outer Gods. Out pops Dagon who uses all the demons as a sacrifice to summon his master (as of yet unnamed, ia ia f'taghn), who in turn is trying to summon his masters. Unnamed Cthulhu is supposedly above all the gods in power, and itself pales in comparison to its masters. Then something about the cult of Nyalarthotep on the material plane, and Asmodeus sacrificing himself to give everyone that little bit of time that will conveniently run out when plot demands it. A little OOC for Asmodeus, but it makes sense in context.

Do I interpret that right in that any level taken in a PrC is equal to 2 levels, since that's basically how he's making it work (1 side has the first level, the other has the 2nd)? If yes, then how is he doing BAB/Save progression? Just calculate what the fractional BAB/Save progression of whatever class it is and use that? Also, for most of these options there are several PrC's that would be worth the cost, though from the sound of it you should restrict to 1 or 2 regardless. Even if the penalty's enough to drag you behind a level, lower levels get more exp from the same fights than higher levels do, and a single level isn't THAT much for most applications (spell level transitions and similar excepting, of course).

EDIT: If your DM is really going full-tilt on the Epic Gestalt campaign, then I have one recommendation for you to look up, provided that you can get him to sign a contract to not make use of the drawback, or at least wait until the final fight to do so. Unearthed Arcana's Item Familiar. It is completely, utterly, hopelessly bork't in terms of game balance (both for the player when it's in use and when it's being used against them), but if you really do need all the help you can get, there you go. Works even better for Skillmonkeys with Full-Casting, which makes my Rogue/Sorcerer suggestion juicier. Just make sure the damn thing's at least as protected as you are. If it goes, then so will you in VERY short order.