PDA

View Full Version : (3.5) Telflammar Shadowlord question.



D4rkh0rus
2014-05-27, 09:26 PM
I always hear that this class and some added shenanigans produce the multipouncing bling yadda yadda...

What I dont understand, is how does this end up racking up damage?

Taking the fact that the easiest entry without the template is totemist 2, that still only provides a move action teleport that more or less ends your turn after the full attack, so how does one go on about making 3 or more full attacks on a regular basis (I.E every round, in such a way that you will be able to do so for every round of every encounter each day).

How do you go about racking up attacks.

All of this is eschewing the abrupt jaunt ACF for derp purposes.

Dorian Gray
2014-05-27, 09:34 PM
A strictly RAW interpretation of the class would allow you to make a full attack after every teleport- that is, if you teleport as a move action with your Blink Shirt, then use dim hop (1st level psionic power- easy enough to get) to teleport as a swift action, then use dimension door to teleport as a standard action, you can get off 3 full attacks.

Metahuman1
2014-05-27, 09:47 PM
Play an unarmed swordsage.

Get a custome Item of continous haste, take Snap Kick and Superior Unarmed Strike.

Either pump Str, dip Shiba Protector and Pump Wis, or Take Weapons Finness + Shadow Blade Strike, Stay in a Shadow Hand Stance and Pump Dex.

Get a Custom Item of Continous Greater Mighty Wallop at at least Caster level 6.

Take Improved Natural Attack.

Take Adaptive Style.

Focus Heavily on Shadow Hand Mauvers, getting all three of the teleport manuvers.

Take 4 levels of Telflammer Shadowlord to get Shadow Pounce, which wil trigger each time you use one of those telepoerts. You can do a standard action one, move action one, and a swift action one in the same round, always landing adjacent to the same opponent, and thus getting 3 full attacks in on him while dealing substantial damage for each hit.

D4rkh0rus
2014-05-27, 09:49 PM
A strictly RAW interpretation of the class would allow you to make a full attack after every teleport- that is, if you teleport as a move action with your Blink Shirt, then use dim hop (1st level psionic power- easy enough to get) to teleport as a swift action, then use dimension door to teleport as a standard action, you can get off 3 full attacks.

Thats exactly the thing...

Im not sure about dimension hop, since it says "you touch target creature" can you "touch yourself" to use it?

also, Dimension Door specifically states: "After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn." and blink shirt is effectively casting D.Door so how would this interact....

Arael666
2014-05-27, 09:54 PM
Play an unarmed swordsage.

Get a custome Item of continous haste, take Snap Kick and Superior Unarmed Strike.

Either pump Str, dip Shiba Protector and Pump Wis, or Take Weapons Finness + Shadow Blade Strike, Stay in a Shadow Hand Stance and Pump Dex.

Get a Custom Item of Continous Greater Mighty Wallop at at least Caster level 6.

Take Improved Natural Attack.

Take Adaptive Style.

Focus Heavily on Shadow Hand Mauvers, getting all three of the teleport manuvers.

Take 4 levels of Telflammer Shadowlord to get Shadow Pounce, which wil trigger each time you use one of those telepoerts. You can do a standard action one, move action one, and a swift action one in the same round, always landing adjacent to the same opponent, and thus getting 3 full attacks in on him while dealing substantial damage for each hit.

A one level dip into wizard can get on an imediate action teleport with abrupt jaunt. 4 full attack so far, can we do more?

Red Fel
2014-05-27, 09:56 PM
The thing is that any ability mimicking Dimension Door, as per the spell itself, would end your turn. But not all teleportation effects reference Dimension Door.

For example, the Blink Shirt lets you use your standard action to Dimension Door, at which point you take your full attack and your turn ends. But what about before that? Consider that you have a move action and a swift action. Do you have access to Tome of Battle? The Shadow Stride and Shadow Blink maneuvers take a move action and a swift action, respectively, to initiate. Neither references Dimension Door, but both are [Teleportation] effects.

So, assuming you have maneuvers lined up, your turn could look like this: Shadow Blink, full attack, Shadow Stride, full attack, Blink Shirt, full attack. Three full attacks in one round.

Yeah. It's kind of like that.

EDIT: Appropriately enough, Swordsage'd.

Dorian Gray
2014-05-27, 10:05 PM
Thats exactly the thing...

Im not sure about dimension hop, since it says "you touch target creature" can you "touch yourself" to use it?

You can, by all means, "Touch yourself". In fact, as a 1st level spell/power/whatever, you can get an item that allows you to use dim hop at will for only 1800 gp, so you can "touch yourself" every round of every day, and still have time for a move and a standard.

Of course, the best way is still to go swordsage, but not everybody likes ToB.

Red Fel
2014-05-27, 10:29 PM
A one level dip into wizard can get on an imediate action teleport with abrupt jaunt. 4 full attack so far, can we do more?

Problem. An immediate action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#immediateActions) counts as your swift action for that turn. Further, you can't use another immediate or swift action until after your next turn. So that excludes a swift action teleport. We're still at 3 full attacks (one swift/immediate, one move, one standard).

Arael666
2014-05-28, 12:19 AM
Well, back to the drawing board.

I supose if we use a belt of battle we could squeeze 2 more full attacks (another move and another standard) but thats all I can come up with. We seriously can't make past 5 full attacks in a single round?

Flickerdart
2014-05-28, 12:24 AM
A permissive reading of RKV would let us generate a whole bunch of swift actions by trading turning attempts (a RAW reading would, of course, default the Supernatural ability with no listed activation time to a standard action, making it useless).

3drinks
2014-05-28, 12:47 AM
The "combo" with this involved the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling ability. D-Hop your way to the target. Make the first three of your iterative attacks, then the fourth one tap your thigh with your weapon "channeling" D-Hop onto yourself - oh look, you just teleported and ended movement near the target (10ft puts you right behind him and in range, and vice versa to hop back in front of him) so now you get another series of attacks. You're only limited to the number of times you can cast D-Hop/day.

As I recall you can also use this trick to keep D-Hopping him upwards in the air, moving with him. Once he's sufficiently high enough you D-Hop back down and let him fall, usually to his death.

Anlashok
2014-05-28, 12:58 AM
Problem. An immediate action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#immediateActions) counts as your swift action for that turn. Further, you can't use another immediate or swift action until after your next turn. So that excludes a swift action teleport. We're still at 3 full attacks (one swift/immediate, one move, one standard).

You can however, swift, standard, move, then on your enemy's turn immediate, which gives you four there (but only two on the count after that)

Bakkan
2014-05-28, 07:47 AM
An Idiot Crusader/Master of Nine can, at high levels, activate the three Shadow Hand teleportation maneuvers every single round. That's the best way I know of to be able to Shadow Pounce three times per round every round of the day.

ben-zayb
2014-05-28, 07:54 AM
And those are the mundanes. Ao help you if you start using that Ardent ACF. Or worse, a shadow mailman (Stand and Benign Transposition are Teleportation effects)

Forrestfire
2014-05-28, 08:00 AM
There's also some gems like Stand, which is an immediate action teleport effect that works on you if you're prone. At the end of your turn, drop to prone... Then full attack during someone else's.

Darrin
2014-05-28, 09:09 AM
We seriously can't make past 5 full attacks in a single round?

Try adding Glyph Seals (1000 GP, MIC). Key them to pockets with ammunition/spell components. Free action to draw, triggers dimension hop with you as the target.

D4rkh0rus
2014-05-28, 04:46 PM
What if theres a ban on all psionic classes? for reason a or b? how does one obtain 3+ full attacks per round without having to "reload" on the next one?

Edit: Would a on-use item of dimension hop, or stand be a standard action or a free one?

Edit 2: Also, what methods does one that doesnt take any psionic lvls and only 1 level of wizard have to get access to teleport and plane shift

Darrin
2014-05-28, 09:17 PM
What if theres a ban on all psionic classes? for reason a or b? how does one obtain 3+ full attacks per round without having to "reload" on the next one?


Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Stride, and Shadow Blink.

I've also seen at least one build use the Shadowcaster's flicker mystery, which can be activated as an immediate action.



Edit: Would a on-use item of dimension hop, or stand be a standard action or a free one?


One-shot items are usually standard actions to either use or say the command word. You need a spell-trigger or spell-completion item if you want to use the same casting time as the spell.



Edit 2: Also, what methods does one that doesnt take any psionic lvls and only 1 level of wizard have to get access to teleport and plane shift

Well, 1 level of wizard would let you make a UMD check to cast from a scroll, but you'd need one heckuva modifier to pull that off reliably. What exactly do you need the teleport/plane shift for? Is this a one-off emergency kinda thing, or do you mean on a regular basis?

Dorian Gray
2014-05-28, 10:22 PM
And now, for the solution to everything ever:
Greater Arcane Fusion to cast Dimension Door and Repeating Arcane Fusion to cast Dimension Door and some level 1 teleport spell- benign transportation with a familiar, perhaps. That gets you 3 dimension doors and a benign teleport out of one standard action. Hell, if you a rod of quicken, you can cast the same thing again! 8 teleports in one turn (admittedly only 3 times a day, but still)! Plus whatever you can get in a move action!

Metahuman1
2014-05-28, 10:42 PM
Question: If a character took 8 levels of Factotum and 4 levels of shadowlord, what would the earliest level they could start using the learn martial maneuver feat to pick up shadow hand teleports be?

Cause I can see Factotum 8/Shadowlord 4/Warblade 8 being used to pick up the shadow hand maneuvers along with a pumped up int and repeated hits of font of inspiration could get a lot of full attacks.


Or you know what would be even better, put the 4 levels of shadow lord and 16 levels of warblade on one side of a gestalt, and 8 levels of factotum, up to 3 levels of a caster class if needed, and 9 levels of swiftblade, and then load up on a pumped up int score and all the hits of font of inspiration.

Doc_Maynot
2014-05-28, 10:46 PM
Why not just go Factotum 11? That way they can ignore SR and DR.

D4rkh0rus
2014-05-28, 10:48 PM
Well, factotum 8/shadowlord 4/warblade 8 is more or less impossible, where would you get the sneak attack needed?


Everyone says Shadow Blink, stride and jaunt... but two things.... Dont stride and blink come up at like lvl 10 and 15 ish?
Also, dont they require a feat AND a full round action to "refresh"?

Im asking for a way to get 3+ full attacks each round without having psionics or arcane caster classes (except for the shadowlord) is this even possible?

Doc_Maynot
2014-05-28, 10:51 PM
Factotum can supply the SA via Cunning Strike.

WhamBamSam
2014-05-29, 12:02 AM
Factotum can supply the SA via Cunning Strike.Maybe. You only need to qualify for Shadowlord when taking the first level, but only having sneak attack during one attack roll at a time might be pushing it.

Factotum 8/Warblade 1/Shadowlord 4/Warblade +7 can qualify through Martial Study for Assassin's Stance, though it'll take 1-2 flaws.

That will get you 3 shadow pounces on the first round, and two in every subsequent round (you can't Shadow Blink, as you need your swift to recover maneuvers) until you run out of IP for Cunning Surge (you need an extra standard action you need to refresh your maneuvers).

Could an Idiot Crusader with constant access to the Shadow Jaunt line be constructed? It seems like a tough proposition, but it would allow a consistent 3 full attacks/round.

I don't think Totemist 2 actually qualifies for Shadowlord, unless I'm missing something that makes Soulmeld abilities spell-likes.

The only way I can think of to get a 4th shadow pounce in a round without spells/powers is a Blink Dog's 1/turn free action Dimension Door (which allows you to continue on with your turn afterward). Problem is, Blink Dogs only have cohort LA, which might be a no-no as far as making a legal character, and the only other means of accessing it I know of is Exalted Wild Shape, which isn't an option as Shadowlord requires that you be nongood. If someone knows of a good low ECL Magical Beast, there are ways of getting Alter Self without spellcasting, and from there you just need Assume Supernatural Ability.

Other than that, I'm pretty much out of ideas. A fellow party member/cohort could funnel extra actions into you in a few different ways, but using multiple people moves the goalposts from 4 full attacks/round to somewhere around 8-10.

ben-zayb
2014-05-29, 12:11 AM
And now, for the solution to everything ever:
Greater Arcane Fusion to cast Dimension Door and Repeating Arcane Fusion to cast Dimension Door and some level 1 teleport spell- benign transportation with a familiar, perhaps. That gets you 3 dimension doors and a benign teleport out of one standard action. Hell, if you a rod of quicken, you can cast the same thing again! 8 teleports in one turn (admittedly only 3 times a day, but still)! Plus whatever you can get in a move action!Can't make actions after DD. What you're looking for is something like:

Twin Repeat Greater Arcane Fusion (Twin Repeat (Arcane Fusion (Twin Repeat Dimension Hop + Benign Transposition)) + (Twin Repeat Dimension Hop))

Now, if you abuse Sanctum Spells and go TO...

Aegis013
2014-05-29, 12:35 AM
Could an Idiot Crusader with constant access to the Shadow Jaunt line be constructed? It seems like a tough proposition, but it would allow a consistent 3 full attacks/round.

I don't think Totemist 2 actually qualifies for Shadowlord, unless I'm missing something that makes Soulmeld abilities spell-likes.


Assuming a few allowances/specific interpretations, an Idiot Crusader Shadowpouncer is possible.

The allowances is that Shape Soulmeld: Blink Shirt allows qualification for the Spellcasting prerequisite of Telflammar Shadowlord, and the build requires flaws.

The interpretations are that once a character knows a maneuver, he can not know the same maneuver again, even on a different martial adept's maneuvers known. That the individual level benefits from PrCs in ToB can be split among different martial adepts, or, optimally, benefits inside of levels can be divided as the player sees fit (one maneuver to class A, one to class B).

The build goes something like this:

Human
Str: 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 12
Warblade 1/Fighter 1/Unarmed Swordsage 1/Crusader 1/Cloistered Cleric of Wee Jas 1 (Magic and Undeath domains)/Unarmed Swordsage +1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 1(Assassin's Stance)/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Ruby Knight Vindicator +6/The Master of Nine 3
Feats:
1. Dodge, H. Mobility, F1. Hidden Talent (Dimension Hop), F2. Shape Soulmeld: Blink Shirt
2. Blind-Fight
3. Adaptive Style, USS. Imp. Unarmed Strike
5. CC. Extra Turning, Knowledge Devotion
6. Spring Attack
9. Extra Granted Maneuver
12. Power Attack (optional)
15. Improved Initiative
18. ???

You start with 2 granted, and 2 known, and get up to 7 granted of a max maneuver level of 8th. So in those five just be sure to include the Shadow Jaunt line.

If you want to get really cheesy and you use the loose interpretation that Divine Impetus requires no action, get White Raven Tactics in the Crusader known maneuvers and use it on yourself. Your enemy's get to act once, and then you get unlimited shadowpounces on them as your maneuvers refresh on your next turn (not the next round) and there's nothing stopping you from plummeting infinitely into the negative initiative counts, or I've never seen anything that suggests you can't.

WhamBamSam
2014-05-29, 12:56 AM
Nice.

If LA Buyoff is allowed, you can just be a Shadow Walker if the Blink Shirt doesn't work. Even if not, it's not a terrible LA+1.

There's also always Crinti Shadow Marrauder, which tends to be less of a headache.

Snowbluff
2014-05-29, 12:59 AM
How to get more attacks? Twin Repeat D Hop. Twin Repeat Stand.

At Will? Blink Shirt and Dimensional Jaunt.

Rebel7284
2014-05-29, 01:04 AM
With psionics you can get a pretty silly number of full attacks.
As I recall:

Ardent7/Swordsage1/TSL4/Ardent 3

Customize mantle + Dominant Ideal

Swift action: Twinned Hustle
Move: Twinned Dimension Slide
Move: Twinned Dimension Slide
Move: Twinned Dimension Slide
Standard: Twinned Dimension Slide

8 full attacks. Not counting Linked Power abuse.

But wait! If you manifest fission and use dimension swap, you can get 32 full attacks instead!

There is probably a way to abuse metamagic reducers to do something similar with magic.

There is also body outside of body for creating clones.

Aegis013
2014-05-29, 01:26 AM
How to get more attacks? Twin Repeat D Hop. Twin Repeat Stand.

At Will? Blink Shirt and Dimensional Jaunt.

Repeat Spell doesn't work with touch range spells, and I'm not sure if Twin would work either since you only get the full attack upon completion of the teleportation according to TFSL, and the teleports happen simultaneously according to Twin Spell.

WhamBamSam
2014-05-29, 01:53 AM
With psionics you can get a pretty silly number of full attacks.
As I recall:

Ardent7/Swordsage1/TSL4/Ardent 3

Customize mantle + Dominant Ideal

Swift action: Twinned Hustle
Move: Twinned Dimension Slide
Move: Twinned Dimension Slide
Move: Twinned Dimension Slide
Standard: Twinned Dimension Slide

8 full attacks. Not counting Linked Power abuse.

But wait! If you manifest fission and use dimension swap, you can get 32 full attacks instead!

There is probably a way to abuse metamagic reducers to do something similar with magic.

There is also body outside of body for creating clones.Psionic Dimension Door=/=Dimension Door (you'd need the Magic Mantle and the spell version Chirurgeried onto you or something), you have to select a 1st level stance at Swordsage 1, and your IL isn't actually high enough to qualify for Assassin's Stance at that point anyway.

As for an arcane version, I've been kicking around the idea of a Shadowpouncing Blood Wind Thrower for a while, but it hasn't quite come together to my satisfaction as of yet.

On the non-casting side of things Abrians are 2HD/1 LA Magical Beasts from the Fiend Folio. They have -4 Int, which is unfortunate for this, but they could potentially get Alter Self+Assume Supernatural Ability for an extra Shadow Pounce as a Blink Dog without resorting to spellcasting.

Random other thought. Can you be granted an extra move action after using Dimension Door by something like a friendly Marshal? One ability says you can't take actions, the other says you can be granted an action and take it immediately. Which is specific and which is general in this case?

Dread_Head
2014-05-29, 09:05 AM
I like involving Swiftblade in my Telflammar Shadowlord builds as it has largely similar prerequisite feats and grants Spring Attack.

Something like: Spellthief 1 / Abrupt Jaunt Martial Wizard 2 / SA Fighter 1 / Totemist 2 / Trapsmith 1 / Swiftblade 3 / Telflammar Shadowlord 4 / Swiftblade 6
Feats: 1. Able Learner, H. Dodge, W. Mobility, 3. Darkstalker, 6. Craven, B. Spring Attack, 9. Blindfight, 12. Master Spellthief (For caster level boosts), B. Bounding Assault.

With the extra standard action from Swiftblade you can cast Dimension Hop (PHBII) twice for Full Attacks then use Abrupt Jaunt for another and finally Blink Shirt as a move action for a last full attack.

If you allow a fairly lax interpretation of Battle Jump that lets you charge any time you drop onto an enemy then take that and dip Barbarian for Pounce. Then teleport above them each time and full attack with a reach weapon, fall as a free action which counts as a charge from battle jump then full attack from pounce. This will get you 8 full attacks in a turn.

Spellthief 1 / Abrupt Jaunt Martial Wizard 1 / Totemist 2 / Pounce Barbarian 1 / Unseen Seer 2 / Telflammar Shadowlord 4 / Swiftblade 9
1. Dodge, H. Mobility, W. Blindfight, 3. Battle Jump, 6. Spring Attack, 9. Power Attack, 12. Imp. Bullrush, 15. Shock Trooper, B. Bounding Assault, 18. Master Spellthief.

Nightraiderx
2014-05-29, 09:15 AM
Duskblade Novaing: Duskblade 13 + Teflammar Shadow Lord 5 + Spelltheif 1 + Abjurant Wizard 1.

Nova using dimension hop and duskblade full attack. If in range full attack and use last attack to freely use touch on self, port, recast spell while full attacking.
Rinse. Repeat until out of spells or target/targets are dead.

You'll need assassin's stance at lvl 12 for a feat, and you will want master spelltheif for a regular caster level.
If your foe has spells, steal his spell esscence and continue your nova using his spells!

D4rkh0rus
2014-05-29, 10:47 AM
Makes me wonder why everyone is suggesting either an arcane or psionic build, Im trying to make something that doesn't have those.

3 or more attacks each round, no arcane or psionic classes, ardent is psionic, duskblade is arcane, etc.

Aegis013
2014-05-29, 11:11 AM
Makes me wonder why everyone is suggesting either an arcane or psionic build, Im trying to make something that doesn't have those.

3 or more attacks each round, no arcane or psionic classes, ardent is psionic, duskblade is arcane, etc.

My Idiot Crusader meets those criteria. If my build is too rules liberal you'll have a hard time reaching your goal. You can get three every other round with a swordsage base, but most teleportation effects are arcane or psionic.

Snowbluff
2014-05-29, 11:28 AM
Repeat Spell doesn't work with touch range spells, and I'm not sure if Twin would work either since you only get the full attack upon completion of the teleportation according to TFSL, and the teleports happen simultaneously according to Twin Spell.

DDoor, then. Also, nothing says I can't be making full attacks at the same time. It's a weakness in the rules the game designers could not have anticipated. I'm already tearing holes in space-time.

Urpriest
2014-05-29, 11:52 AM
Makes me wonder why everyone is suggesting either an arcane or psionic build, Im trying to make something that doesn't have those.

3 or more attacks each round, no arcane or psionic classes, ardent is psionic, duskblade is arcane, etc.

They're suggesting that because they assume you've seen the original, Swordsage-based build. That build is limited in that its trick is once per encounter, and only comes online at high levels, but that's kind of an appropriate investment for three full attacks.

Do you not know how that build works? Do you want a build that gives the ability earlier? (Probably not possible with your content restrictions.) Do you want a build that can do it every round (Idiot Crusader was already posted.)

Nightraiderx
2014-05-29, 12:06 PM
Alright fair enough. Have you heard of the Jaunter prestige class?
Dex based SLA's of Dimension door, teleport and other shenanigans.

It's from Expedition to the demonweb pits.

My suggestion for the build is a dex/int focus.

Feat Rogue 5/Swashbuckler 3/Jaunter 3/Teflammar Shadowlord 5/Swordsage x

Now you add Sneak attack+craven+int to damage, you have two sources of teleport and some shadow teleports from swordsage.

It would also help if we knew what level you were aiming for. Builds change depending on how early you want to have the ability to do so.

There is a cheesy way of getting into jaunter at lvl 3 if you use the dragon magazine's martial monk to get spring attack early through that.

Aegis013
2014-05-29, 12:17 PM
DDoor, then. Also, nothing says I can't be making full attacks at the same time. It's a weakness in the rules the game designers could not have anticipated. I'm already tearing holes in space-time.

Other than repeat spell, it could work in a TO setting (permissive DM). I'm just not sure a DM would allow it. The RAW isn't entirely clear, imo, on how twin d hop and shadowpounce interact.

D door gets around the repeat spell issue.

D4rkh0rus
2014-05-29, 03:30 PM
They're suggesting that because they assume you've seen the original, Swordsage-based build. That build is limited in that its trick is once per encounter, and only comes online at high levels, but that's kind of an appropriate investment for three full attacks.

Do you not know how that build works? Do you want a build that gives the ability earlier? (Probably not possible with your content restrictions.) Do you want a build that can do it every round (Idiot Crusader was already posted.)

The swordsage build? from what I understand, you use all 3 teleport maneuvers, 3 full attacks, then 'refresh' on the next turn with adaptive style, ending at 3 full attacks every 2 rounds.

As for the idiot crusader, yeah, that one works, but is it the only one that does so within my parameters?


The level I am aiming for is about 14ish. I Want to have everything needed by then, preferably before that lvl.

Aegis013
2014-05-29, 04:24 PM
The swordsage build? from what I understand, you use all 3 teleport maneuvers, 3 full attacks, then 'refresh' on the next turn with adaptive style, ending at 3 full attacks every 2 rounds.

As for the idiot crusader, yeah, that one works, but is it the only one that does so within my parameters?


The level I am aiming for is about 14ish. I Want to have everything needed by then, preferably before that lvl.

It's the only one I know of that meets your criteria, or even comes close.

Urpriest
2014-05-29, 04:30 PM
The swordsage build? from what I understand, you use all 3 teleport maneuvers, 3 full attacks, then 'refresh' on the next turn with adaptive style, ending at 3 full attacks every 2 rounds.

The refresh isn't really relevant, but yeah. The build is just using all 3 teleport maneuvers, and making 3 full attacks. What happens on later rounds can presumably be covered by your other class abilities, if you and your partymates aren't one-rounding things anyway.



As for the idiot crusader, yeah, that one works, but is it the only one that does so within my parameters?

You don't want to use spells or powers, so metamagic and metapsionics won't help. That means you either need extra standard actions (someone was trying a Factotum build earlier) or you need to make use of your move action, and IIRC the only move action teleport that doesn't end your turn comes from ToB. So you need to get access to a ToB maneuver every round, and the only way to do that is Idiot Crusader. So yes, barring Factotum, that's the only build within your parameters.



The level I am aiming for is about 14ish. I Want to have everything needed by then, preferably before that lvl.

It's just in time to get the last of the teleport maneuvers, anyway, if barely...plus other Swift or Immediate action teleports can be gotten earlier. So that's probably about the best you can get.

WhamBamSam
2014-05-29, 05:04 PM
It's just in time to get the last of the teleport maneuvers, anyway, if barely...plus other Swift or Immediate action teleports can be gotten earlier. So that's probably about the best you can get.You need to be a straight classed swordsage or similar to get Shadow Blink by level 14. Even a Shadow Walker Human with the LA bought off would have to be 15th level at least to get Shadow Blink and 4 levels of Shadowlord.

There might be a few other swift action teleport effects you could use without casting, but there aren't many. Off the top of my head, all I can think of is Draconic Rite of Passage (Benign Transposition)+Draconic Resevoir for a 3/day teleporation SLA (if you have a buddy or pet who doesn't mind changing places with you). You have a CL based on your character level and therefore qualifiyfor Quicken SLA with your level 12 feat.

Much to my chagrin, I'm having difficulty in my attempts to get an Abrian Tattooed Monk or Thrall of Juiblex (Alter Self into a Blink Dog+Assume Supernatural Ability) to work properly, even with LA buyoff and/or Elder Evil Worship.

Nightraiderx
2014-05-30, 08:29 AM
Yea, if you want all three kinds of teleports at that level you are better off investing in some items, did a quick search on the gitp's List of Necessary items:

Anklet of Translocation (MIC). 1400GP, feet slot. Range 10', swift action activation. Works twice per day (buy a few!). Requires line of sight and line of effect. Requires line of sight and line of effect.

Shadow Cloak (DotU). 5500GP, shoulders slot. Teleport 10' as an immediate action three times per day, along with (good) secondary benefits. Requires line of sight, but apparently not line of effect.

Boots of Swift Passage (MIC). 5000GP, feet slot. Range 20'. Move action activation. Works five timesper day. Requires line of sight and line of effect.

But you will have an immediate action counter, Leaping Flame from the Desert Wind school it's a lvl 5, I highly recommend it.